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Is Radical Islam Stopable?  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

The death of Miss Bhutto is just a drop in the ocean of radical islamisation going on all over the Muslim world.
Algeria had more than 100.000 of it's own citizens killed by "brother "Islamic fanatics,Gaza strip is basically an uncontrollable ghetto run by blindfold Hamas leaders,if Cairo would let the Islamic brotherhood loose,the country would be converted into a strong-islamic state,IRan leaders dream about having the nucleus to demonstrate their strenght and Afghanistan is basically re-ruled by the Taliban's.
Any serious suggestions ?
While politicians scratch their heads how to prevent moderate Muslims to be overrun by their more radical opponents,the west looks ,comments and has no answers.
As a longtime resident of the Middle East I see the future of moderate Islam in bleak colours.The current events in Pakistan and Afghanistan,Somalia and Sudan show no real breakthrough of moderate voices.
Across the Mediterranean sea,Algeria is not stable as it should be - and although Libya's leader has been received and treated as "honorable" leader by Europeans ,he still remains a sick lunatic .


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
116 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN74JW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

No, not in my opinion. Every religious group has it's radical sects. It is the way it is...

User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Well no doubt, the Islamic-apologists will swarm this thread, and remind us how evil everyone else is, and how we're falsely characterizing Mulsims. And heck, there's even a good chance this thread is locked or deleted.

We simply cannot honestly discuss Islam, and the harm it is creating, on the forums of Anet. It is literally the hottest issue, at the moment.

So to answer the question - we need to isolate them. Stop buying their oil. Stop supporting their murderous regimes. Stop catering to a religion that claims to be one of peace... but actively supports a global war.

-UH60


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3062 times:
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It sure is. You need the following.

http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/103969.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/B1-B_Lancer_and_cluster_bombs.jpg

http://mattortega.com/wordpress/images/us-military-seals.jpg

and last but not least

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060618-N-8492C-212.jpg



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

There is a way to stop them. But i don't think the mods on a.net will let us freely discuss this topic.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
We simply cannot honestly discuss Islam, and the harm it is creating, on the forums of Anet.

 checkmark  I honestly don't want to get banned for voicing my opinion. So if you really wanna know my answer, IM me.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3039 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The death of Miss Bhutto is just a drop in the ocean of radical islamisation going on all over the Muslim world.
Algeria had more than 100.000 of it's own citizens killed by "brother "Islamic fanatics,Gaza strip is basically an uncontrollable ghetto run by blindfold Hamas leaders,if Cairo would let the Islamic brotherhood loose,the country would be converted into a strong-islamic state,IRan leaders dream about having the nucleus to demonstrate their strenght and Afghanistan is basically re-ruled by the Taliban's.
Any serious suggestions ?
While politicians scratch their heads how to prevent moderate Muslims to be overrun by their more radical opponents,the west looks ,comments and has no answers.
As a longtime resident of the Middle East I see the future of moderate Islam in bleak colours.The current events in Pakistan and Afghanistan,Somalia and Sudan show no real breakthrough of moderate voices.
Across the Mediterranean sea,Algeria is not stable as it should be - and although Libya's leader has been received and treated as "honorable" leader by Europeans ,he still remains a sick lunatic .

I'm also very worried about the Islamistic countries , just some days ago I read an interesting article . The author had the opinion that the big problem was to tolerate the islamisation , and always say the typical crap : Most muslims are good just 0.0009 % are Radical .. I doubt 0.0009% could survive if the Rest 99% would be against them , so there is a toleration if not a sympathy for that Radical groups like Al Qaida etc .

For German Speakers here's the Article , i recommend it . As left as I am and as much as I like , I really think an isolation of Ajmadinejad
is vital , someone should get Chavez to cooperate on this !

http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/0,1518,518750,00.html

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):

Well it's a good life insurance not just for America also for Europe !


User currently offlineN74JW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3033 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Reply 2

Fella, you could not have hit more square, if you had used a AGM-114.

I agree 100%


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3020 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):

We usually don't have the same opinions but I agree with you on this point completely , the main Problem is we are dependent of that Oil !

Isolation , would be good , but you need China and Russia to cooperate , and that would be pretty difficult .

I'm glad Germany is starting to stop commercial Relations with Iran just a total isolation mainly economic can bring a Regime like the Iranian is under Pressure , and under Pressure of the own people - the most effective pressure .


We have to invest in renewable energy , a disentanglement of the dependence would be the end for the Radical Islam .


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2991 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Stop buying their oil

Exactly right.

Yea maybe if these stupid people stop buying Hummers and SUVs. I mean sure some people in certain areas of the country need them but some just buy them for the sake of having them. That's great but to drive a vehicle that gets 10 MPG makes no sense and just lines the pockets of the middle east. I by no means drive a small car but it averages 25 MPG. Now if everyone drove a vehicle like that just think how much the demand for oil would go down, how much the price of a barrel of oil would drop. Makes you wonder.


Radical Islam is stopable but we need to do more.


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2988 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):

Radical Islam is stopable but we need to do more.

We have to move our A**** , no Problem will solve by itself , but we do have some good leverages.


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

It is quite entertaining to hear the opinions of quite a few A.netters as to how to deal with this problem... especially considering most of you know nothing about the region. And that includes you, UH60 - you have been exposed to what most Arabs view as the most violent country in the region, and you have not properly been exposed to Arab culture.

First of all, let me start by saying that I do agree that we have a huge problem - I am not denying this in any way. What I am disagreeing with here is two things - what people see as the cause of the problem and the solutions people seem to think will work.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
So to answer the question - we need to isolate them. Stop buying their oil. Stop supporting their murderous regimes. Stop catering to a religion that claims to be one of peace... but actively supports a global war.

This thinking is extremely dangerous. All of the oil-producing Middle Eastern countries, with the exception of Saudi Arabia and Iraq, are very stable countries. Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the UAE, and Oman are all developing at insane rates, with extremism being a very small issue in all of the said countries. Not buying oil from the Middle East as a whole would just destroy the economies of the said countries and create even larger problems for the West. Furthermore, IMO the single largest base of extremism lies in Pakistan - a country with no oil whatsoever, and one that is not even Arab.

Isolating over 1,000,000,000 people is just not possible, and is a very dangerous way of thinking, especially when a large portion of today's Islamic extremism came as a direct result of the West; if you cannot appreciate where the problem came from, you cannot solve it.

Lets look at some of the facts:
-Prior to the last couple of decades, Hamas was insignificant, and the Palestinian resistance movement was purely secular. In fact, many Palestinian freedom fighters in the 1960s were aethiest; Hamas was funded in the 1970s by Israel in order to counter the threat of the PLO. This is well documented, and sources confirming this can be found by running a simple google search.
-Hezbollah only arose in order to counter the Israeli occupation of Lebanon; another group created by the West.
-Al Qaeda and their likes were also funded and brought to power by the West; the US funded them as part of their very short sighted cold war policy.

So, the 3 main Islamic terrorist organizations that most Westerners hear about were all indirectly created by the West. To get supporters, they need to have causes. The West has also conveniently provided these:
-In Saudi Arabia, the extremely corrupt ruling regime has been supported by the US since it first came into power. Wahabism, the basis of today's extremist Islamism, was created and spread in/by Saudi Arabia. So basically the US supported the most extreme country in the Middle East and allowed it to export its extreme Islamism. Mind you, Islam was only spread by the Al Sauds to gather support; they themselves have always been famous for their lack of morals, and as a result many ordinary Saudis hate them. Combine this with the various wars supported by the West in the region and you have the perfect recipe for disaster.
-In Iraq, the US invaded for no good reason, and for years had sanctions in place that killed many Iraqis. In Palestine, the US supports Israel blindly. In Iran, the US has supported brutal regimes and killed the only chance the country had at proper democracy.
-Egypt is another example of a corrupt leadership being supported by the US. How do you think this makes the Egyptian people feel?

Do all these things mean nothing? Do you not thing that after all of the different things done by the West in the Middle East, someone was bound to get pissed off?

The solution is to not give these people any causes to gather around. The damage has already been done, but continuing to support regimes such as Mubarak's and the Al Sauds will do nothing but make matters worse. The same goes for the continued support of Israel and the wars such as the Iraq war.

Most of you are completely blind to the reasons behind why such blind hate and extremism exists in the region. This is because most Americans are completely ignorant to the history of the region, and had never known a damn thing about it up until 9/11.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):
It sure is. You need the following.

The funny thing is that the extremists have the same exact concept about how to deal with Americans. They think terror is the solution, and you think terror is the solution.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

The only way is to educate people from the ground up. But that will only have an effect in the long run. Radical religious groups are there in every religion. Just look at the violence happening in India now..between the Hindus and the Christians.

Firepower won't work...really. How can we kill each and every one of the scum causing the problem? We can't..no matter what we use.



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineN74JW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2941 times:



Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
Most of you are completely blind to the reasons behind why such blind hate and extremism exists in the region. This is because most Americans are completely ignorant to the history of the region, and had never known a damn thing about it up until 9/11.

You had me until that passage, there you are wrong. The only way to defeat any enemy is to destroy their capability to make war. Extremist mullahs are perverting their faith to suit their own agendas. It is very difficult, but not impossible to take away someone's faith.

The U.S. is far from innocent when it comes to politics in the Middle East, but we are not the sole nation who is responsible. This and future American generations are going to pay for the deeds done by the generations past. The people guiding Al Qaeda are the most virulent scum on the planet, and they need to be dealt with in a way they will understand. Lack of understanding on our part has cost the U.S. dearly, but we are not all as ignorant as you claim.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
The funny thing is that the extremists have the same exact concept about how to deal with Americans. They think terror is the solution, and you think terror is the solution.

Al Qaeda has very little power if you were to actually look at them and their capabilities. The U.S. Armed Forces, with the kid gloves removed, could easily pass them from organization into history. Al Qaeda has the most to lose from this engagement, and the peaceful folks of the islamic world need to address the dirt in their house.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2941 times:
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Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
The funny thing is that the extremists have the same exact concept about how to deal with Americans. They think terror is the solution, and you think terror is the solution.

Not at all. I think peace can be achieved with superior firepower. I also believe that any act of aggression against our society needs to be re-visited upon the aggressor in even greater strength.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2940 times:



Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
This thinking is extremely dangerous. All of the oil-producing Middle Eastern countries, with the exception of Saudi Arabia and Iraq, are very stable countries. Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the UAE, and Oman are all developing at insane rates, with extremism being a very small issue in all of the said countries. Not buying oil from the Middle East as a whole would just destroy the economies of the said countries and create even larger problems for the West. Furthermore, IMO the single largest base of extremism lies in Pakistan - a country with no oil whatsoever, and one that is not even Arab.

You can choose of what countries you buy or not .. you can buy to the UAE but not to the Saudis or Iran .


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2918 times:



Quoting N74JW (Reply 12):
You had me until that passage, there you are wrong. The only way to defeat any enemy is to destroy their capability to make war. Extremist mullahs are perverting their faith to suit their own agendas. It is very difficult, but not impossible to take away someone's faith.

So lets say you kill a thousand terrorists. Do you really not think that there aren't people out there who will replace them in an instant? The War on Terror has been ongoing for 6 years now... do you honestly think that the capabilities or the numbers of the terrorists are any less than before? If anything, they are stronger as a result of the war on Iraq. Destroying a nation's capability to make war is much easier than destroying the capability of an enemy who lives as part of society like you and me.

Quoting N74JW (Reply 12):
The U.S. is far from innocent when it comes to politics in the Middle East, but we are not the sole nation who is responsible. This and future American generations are going to pay for the deeds done by the generations past. The people guiding Al Qaeda are the most virulent scum on the planet, and they need to be dealt with in a way they will understand. Lack of understanding on our part has cost the U.S. dearly, but we are not all as ignorant as you claim.

No, you are not the sole reason, and I did not mean to imply that. Many other examples can be seen of Western countries screwing the Middle East over; the French in Algeria, the British in Egypt during the Suez Canal crisis, etc. But, you cannot deny that in today's world, the US are the ones in charge, and they are the ones who have been pretty much directing policy in the Middle East.

As for the part about ignorance, with all due respect the average American is quite ignorant when it comes to the Middle East. How many Americans, for example, do you think are aware of the history that has led up to the Middle East's current situation?

I'll give you a simple example: one thing many Americans have against Iran is the hostage crisis of 1979. But, what constantly shocks me is how little background Americans have as to why it happened. Very few Americans know that the reason it occured was because of the Mossadeq coup of 1953, carried out by the CIA, which led to 26 years of very harsh rule by the Shah and his secret police, the SAVAK.

Quoting N74JW (Reply 12):
Al Qaeda has very little power if you were to actually look at them and their capabilities. The U.S. Armed Forces, with the kid gloves removed, could easily pass them from organization into history. Al Qaeda has the most to lose from this engagement, and the peaceful folks of the islamic world need to address the dirt in their house.

I wasn't referring to their military capabilities - most of them are complete idiots with very basic training, and I have no doubt they would be destroyed in an instant by US forces.

What I was referring to was the basic idea that these types of problems are solved by violence. You could bomb the living shit out of every city in the Middle East, and it would only make the situation worse, because what you are dealing with here isn't a unified force, but an ideology more than anything. Similarily, the extremists seem to think that if they bomb and terrorize the West, the West will leave the Arab/Muslim world alone. The constant support of violence from both sides is what fuels these conflicts on and on.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 13):
Not at all. I think peace can be achieved with superior firepower. I also believe that any act of aggression against our society needs to be re-visited upon the aggressor in even greater strength.

But how do you pick where to strike? If a Saudi terrorist from Riyadh were to strike in the US today, would you bomb the living shit out of Riyadh just because that was where he lived?


User currently offlineN74JW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2896 times:



Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
Do you really not think that there aren't people out there who will replace them in an instant?

No, not in the slightest. Terrorists are like drug dealers in that regard. If one falls, there are a dozen more ready to take the place. Attrition in that manner does send a message, even to those who are not afraid to die and to those who look forward to martyrdom. Trust me, deep down everyone everyone gets afraid once they realize the next moment could be their last.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
Destroying a nation's capability to make war is much easier than destroying the capability of an enemy who lives as part of society like you and me.

Is it? Where does a normal military base come from? Society,,,

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
But, you cannot deny that in today's world, the US are the ones in charge, and they are the ones who have been pretty much directing policy in the Middle East.

I would say oil and money is the game in th M.E. The U.S. and the Saudis are the key brokers. Both parties follow the money.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
How many Americans, for example, do you think are aware of the history that has led up to the Middle East's current situation?

Have you met every American? Blanket statements like that do not help your argument. You are right regarding the CIA's debacle in Iran. Even then, do you think the average American and the judicial part of the U.S. govt were aware of the facts at that time? I read 'A Legacy of Ashes' a couple of months ago, and was astounded at the cavalcade of CIA screw-ups committed around the world since it's inception. The CIA's effort to thwart Communism cost the U.S. a great deal, whilst not really fighting Communism at all. Those hostages taken in 1979 had nothing to do with what happened in 1953. How just was that?

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
the extremists seem to think that if they bomb and terrorize the West, the West will leave the Arab/Muslim world alone.

That ideology has not worked out too well for them. Al Qaeda is casting their own kind a very negative light to millions of ignorant Americans who allegedly control things over there.... and whom are armed to the teeth.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
But how do you pick where to strike? If a Saudi terrorist from Riyadh were to strike in the US today, would you bomb the living shit out of Riyadh just because that was where he lived?

I know exactly how one would handle that...


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2893 times:



Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 13):
Not at all. I think peace can be achieved with superior firepower. I also believe that any act of aggression against our society needs to be re-visited upon the aggressor in even greater strength.

None of which you'll bear the responsibility of wielding. UH60 flies missions there, and his posts on the subject are far less bombastic than yours. Remind us again why you're not wearing a uniform? Flat feet, was it?



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Here's my 0.02:

All these radical clerics in the west that are preaching hate, need to get booted out. Don't imprison them where they will fester and preach their trash.

Stop supporting the Saudis. Wahabiism is a powder keg.

Pakistan is the boil where all of this is breeding. The place needs to be cleaned up. Musharaf is pretty much status quo; this is totally unacceptable. AQ Khan should have been snuffed.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
As for the part about ignorance, with all due respect the average American is quite ignorant when it comes to the Middle East

The world is filled with ignorant people, your statement is not accurate.

al-Qaeda is rabidly looking to strike back at the US, and they may be successful some day. But the day that a real WMD goes off in Baltimore, Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, etc, expect a reply of draconian proportions. Al-Qaeda cares not about the innocent people that get killed, they only care about their perverted view of how Islam should be advanced to every person on the globe.


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2872 times:



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7):
We usually don't have the same opinions but I agree with you on this point completely , the main Problem is we are dependent of that Oil !



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7):
We have to invest in renewable energy , a disentanglement of the dependence would be the end for the Radical Islam .

 rotfl 
I think the above is one of the sneakiest left-wing agenda moves I have seen, this week!
Well done my man Big grin

As for the subject... Oh nothing much, except that others have tried and failed, outside A.net as well  Wink

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2866 times:
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Quoting LHMARK (Reply 17):
Remind us again why you're not wearing a uniform? Flat feet, was it?

Torn left ACL, removed most of my left meniscus cartilage, broken left tibia, partially torn patella tendon, the list goes on. Unfortunately the ACL still is not 100% and I cant get a waiver for it. Pretty much keeps me from serving, but make no mistake about it if I could get a medical go ahead I would gladly step up and serve.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2855 times:

so to sum it up , there obviously can't be simple "extermination" of radical Islamist elements as some suggest,since their number has grown into the million figure and would create martyr's by the thousands,triggering off even more violence.
Appeasement does not work neither,since they won"t listen anyhow. Educating them will take a generation - and replacing existing arab leaders with "democratically elected" ones -as the Europeans and USA suggest,does open the door for radical-islamists like in Egypt,Morocco or Algeria ( ...and I don't even dare to think about Afghanstan or Iraq..)
So we basically are stuck with a situation that nobody anticipated and all the "experts" in think-tanks all over the globe could not prevent.
Pakistan ,Indonesia and soon Nigeria will be the three biggest Muslim counties on the globe - with Indonesia currently relatively quiet,but Pakistan a powder-box and Nigeria a potential issue.
Religious authorithies in many countries have not participated in spreading a moderate picture of Islam but have continued to plaster the non-position of women in Islam.Women are traditionally more moderate than men and should have been allowed to play a more visible role in Islam-which is NOT forbidden by the Coran !
Maybe it's not to late to change that,but this needs the support of the West as well of the key- muftie's of Saudi (unlikely..),Egypt (should be possible ) Morocco ,Pakistan and Indonesia .
Maybe CIA should sponsor womens' right organisations in the Muslim counties rather than sending weapons to dictators...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently onlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2841 times:



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 18):
All these radical clerics in the west that are preaching hate, need to get booted out.

A rather ironic statement given your signature. I guess you are willing to sacrifice freedom of speech to purchase some safety?

QR332 is right that the problem of radical Islam isn't one which can be solved by bullets and bombs. Someone needs to stop and ask why radical Islam has become so attractive to so many in the Islamic world. How little hope do you have before someone can talk you into turning yourself into a human bomb? What can be done to change these societies so that a large portion don't feel left behind, with no hope of improving their lot in life? These are the questions I feel must be answered before we can truly get a handle on the dangers posed by radical Islam.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Oh..another idea...kill bloody Bin Laden. The idiot seems to be unstoppable..issuing new warnings, now against Iraq and Israel.

Bin Laden issues warning on Iraq, Israel

CAIRO, Egypt - Osama bin Laden warned Iraq's Sunni Arabs against fighting al-Qaida and vowed to expand the terror group's holy war to Israel in a new audiotape Saturday, threatening "blood for blood, destruction for destruction."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071229/...;_ylt=AtPguTeNgaULYEfOyqCrnhn9xg8F



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2841 times:



Quoting Windshear (Reply 19):
I think the above is one of the sneakiest left-wing agenda moves I have seen, this week!
Well done my man Big grin

 laughing   laughing   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 21):
Maybe CIA should sponsor womens' right organisations in the Muslim counties rather than sending weapons to dictators...

Forget it ... The CIA is not an Organisation we should believe in , it's rather like a Mafia ORG ...


You beat them when you don't buy their oil ..

Constantin


25 AirTran737 : If the Saudi government knew about what the terrorist was doing and did nothing to stop him/her then yes, you have to punish all who are involved, an
26 N74JW : They will wind up selling it to someone else...
27 StealthZ : QR332, Allow me to differ somewhat, Your plaintive and repetitive cries that radical Islam was created by the west is a fallacy. There were radical Is
28 LHStarAlliance : But imagine how the Oil Price would fall if Europe and America need 30 % less Oil ! It would go down under 20 Dollars . Constantin
29 N74JW : It would be great!!! I wish I had the answer to the energy question. I believe the solution is dependent on a number of factors. I would like to tell
30 STT757 : Take away the oil and the Middle East becomes Africa.
31 LHStarAlliance : Well your President is being very unproductive on this topic , whole America should go the same way California is going . You've windy regions , you'
32 Dougloid : Read my blog, I've got an article by Dr. David Fine on the December 22 date. There are 1.4 trillion (with a T) recoverable barrels of oil in oil shal
33 LHStarAlliance : do you've a link ? something like the oil sands of alberta ?
34 TheCol : The only way to eliminate the threat of Islamic extremism, is to: A. Promote and support democratic movements in Middle Eastern countries. That includ
35 LHStarAlliance : that would end in an WW3 you can't reach everything by military power !
36 Miamiair : No it isn't. There is freedom of speech, yet you can't yell FIRE in a theatre. I am not sacrificing anything. People that preach hate have no busines
37 Mir : If "stopable" means elliminated completely, no. It is impossible to stomp out popular movements, particularly on the global scale that radical Islam h
38 Post contains images GKirk : Other things are more important, sorry [Edited 2007-12-29 15:16:16]
39 ZTagged : To quote George Carlin.. You can't beat numbers, and you can't beat fanaticism.
40 LHStarAlliance : yea one of the biggest problems , there's just one choice : Make it obligatory , like we are doing here in Europe .
41 Mir : Right now that's the kiss of death for any US politician because of the cost involved. Once gas gets up to $6 per gallon like it is in Europe, you mi
42 LHStarAlliance : This shows how Paradox the American Society is ... On the other side the Government could sink the Taxes for the Gas and then make it obligatory to i
43 ZTagged : You're kidding, right? With enough lobbyists and energywhores in the government, you honestly think they'll let their money get away? Hell. No. We'll
44 Miamiair : And your posts have been deviating from the original idea of the thread.
45 LHStarAlliance : Another big problem ... Politicians have lost the Integrity they ones had , look at Cheney he has just done Politics in favor of Halliburton , but no
46 TheCol : I'm not proposing we invade every country in the Middle East. However, further military action by NATO and other allies have to be taken if diplomacy
47 Post contains images ZTagged : Screw that. If they want to mis-manage their countries, I say deny access to their citizens to any diplomatic country. Same goes for trade and such.
48 LHStarAlliance : Lets see what the next President does . The only way to Harm the Radical Islamics is to drop the Oil price , as low as possible , how to do it ? There
49 ZTagged : So then what do we do? We're too busy selling our oil from the Pipeline to start using that.. The only action would be cut ourselves off from them in
50 Searpqx : QR, this is your standard response. I actually agree with many of your points and the feel the West has yet to completely face up to its role in help
51 LHStarAlliance : No I don't think so , as said the best way to put them under Pressure is to show them that we can do it also without their oil, that will drop the Oi
52 Jalto27R : That didn't work for Communism, and it won't work for radical Islamics. The challenge at hand is to always keep in mind that it is the few and far be
53 Post contains images Wingnut767 : To compare Turning it ever so slowly into a Euro Green Party, anti big oil/capitalism thread. Another blame America, the west and Israel thread. Oh y
54 Alias1024 : So why is the KKK allowed to parade through the streets, with uniformed police officers protecting them while they try to spread hate?
55 Miamiair : Are they perpetrating a crime when they are assembled? Didn't think so.
56 StasisLAX : I mentioned the following points in another thread a couple of days ago, but I think It is very strange that we continue to judge Islamic countries in
57 N74JW : Our President unfortunately has a case of senioritus. The wellfare of the American people are not fore-front on his mind. They have a right to peacef
58 Alessandro : Wrong but their production don´t cover their domestic needs. As for extremists, too much money from natural resources in the area where does extremi
59 Aaron747 : I respectfully disagree purely on the basis of realpolitik. Cut off the money and watch leaders throughout the region summon everything they can behi
60 Post contains images Baroque : I sort of hoped you were joking, but clearly you were not. Six years of trying that and you really think more is a solution to the increased problems
61 Post contains images Windshear : The west created Islamic Extremism? What a joke, there are so many things wrong with what is quoted above, it is almost impossible to cook up a decen
62 Flynavy : I'm all about letting them all slaughter each other en masse. But keep my country out of it.
63 QR332 : The whole point is that these people don't care if the next moment is their last. They are so brainwashed that they believe no matter what will happe
64 Flynavy : Their called Islamic Fundamentalists for a reason. There's something fundamentally WRONG with Islam. ...at least, their interpretation of it.
65 Post contains images Hkg82 : It is unbelievable how many people here point the blame on Islam itself AND not on the rulers and so called 'religious' leaders of these Middle Easter
66 Post contains images Flynavy : WHERE is the public outcry AGAINST the fundamentalists then?!
67 Flynavy : Further, why is Al Jazeera always the FIRST station to air Bin Laden propaganda tapes? WHY don't they simply NOT air them? I think we all know the rea
68 Flynavy : Duly noted.
69 ArniePie : All these problems with radicalisation within Islam can be solved within Islam itself, it only takes some courage to perform a true Ijtihaad (enlighte
70 Post contains links and images Baroque : Excellent post QR322, but I would slightly correct this part. It is not that Islamic nations suffer AS WELL, it is that by far the highest casualties
71 Post contains images CALTECH : No, the arab muslim conquest of Jerusalem in 638 AD had nothing to do with the crusades, which started in 1095 AD, when muslims kept on conquering la
72 QR332 : Where are the public outcries against stopping support for Israel? About stopping support for extremist regimes? Where is the public outcry for actua
73 Beaucaire : I tend to agree with your post - but have to come back to one of my earlier posts in which I deplore the suppression of the "female" factor in religi
74 N74JW : That is the party line, and what they would like you to believe. Brainwashed, yes, that part is tragic. It would be nice if certain European nations
75 QR332 : Your not seriously getting into this discussion? I'm not going to argue medieval history with you, especially since brutality was the norm across the
76 ArniePie : I'm sorry but you cannot say I'm wrong and than a bit further down the line say I'm right about Islam not changing much in the past 1000 years. The c
77 Miamiair : Good. Stop living in the past and stop playing the blame game. Fix the problem, reaching into the history books is not an option. If these people don
78 CALTECH : I can't believe you are trying to be serious, this is why radical islam is alive and well at this time. Yes I know, the prophet Mohammed of islam nev
79 Windshear : I am not mocking you, your claim simply is a joke. Now if I was to start on a trail of trying to explain ("prove you wrong" in your words) to you how
80 QR332 : When I said it hasn't changed, I didn't mean the mentality of the people, I meant the basic concepts of Islam - these have not changed in the slighte
81 CALTECH : Wow, what exactly is the difference, seems as though someone is confused.
82 Post contains images Lehpron : Well, how do radicals come about? I think every group has people that take this too far, that think they have take matters into their own hands. You h
83 Windshear : First of all I do not have to prove anything, I only wrote what I thought of your remark, no need to prove anything. Secondly you don't prove anythin
84 Wingnut767 : So the United States, Canada and Australia did not go through colonialism? Hell even India is pulling itself up and moving along. Stop blaming it on
85 NAV20 : Wingnut767, not disputing that the countries of the Middle East badly need political reform. But one has to remember that they are very new countries
86 Mandala499 : Did someone mention Indonesia being quiet? How do we stop radical Islam? Simple... we give entertainment everyone can enjoy... and to hell with the fa
87 PWM2TXLHopper : In all seriousness, I think we should start wrapping the bodies of the Jihad fighters we're killing in pig skins to prevent them from going to heaven
88 Flynavy : Well I'll be damned. That makes perfect sense - really, it does. Break out the bacon!
89 Baroque : True, but in spite of that excellent contribution, similar from Nav and an interesting insight from Mandala that the western view of many Islamic cou
90 Mandala499 : They can't be ignored, but don't give them too much attention... Make sure the moderates feel that it's better to be a moderate... but at the same tim
91 Scbriml : None of that has worked so far. The "wild region" of the Pakistan/Afghanistan border seems to be a significant breeding ground for extremism. Terrori
92 Scbriml : To answer the question. Yes, I think radical Islam is stoppable. But, I believe it can only be stopped when the vast majority of law-abiding, peaceful
93 Beaucaire : I read you loud and clear- wish it could be done -but in order to access the population one needs the control of the media -TV ,Radio and Papers- and
94 Wingnut767 : Just curious on how the US inspired it?
95 AGM100 : The answer is .. Not for a very very very long time ... if ever. The US will probably be gone as the superpower ,China will use its "special education
96 Post contains links Bhill : Sure...with a healthy dose of Democracy...Religion and Politics never never never never mix...you are always going to have "extremists" in every socie
97 PPVRA : That's a proven way to get more of them, not less.
98 Post contains links NAV20 : http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ Care to answer at least some of my points in #85 now, Wingnut767?
99 Alessandro : I do agree, the gunmen who killed a group of Greek christian tourists, really thought they where Israelis (blue and white flag on the bus fooled them
100 StealthZ : And apologising for cold blooded murder because you hit the wrong group of innocent people, makes it right? WTF There is fighting to survive and bloo
101 Allstarflyer : "Is Radical Islam Stopable?" Charles Martel would say YES!!!
102 ArniePie : Like always it are those courageous Belgians that are going to have to save the day.
103 Halls120 : Best post of the entire thread. Muslims can continue to whine about all of the alleged and real atrocities visited upon them for the past two thousan
104 N74JW : Alright, how would you propose to enact that idea on the Islamic community? After all, the radicals are not blowing up their mosques. Why would they
105 Wingnut767 : By saying You seem to be saying that the US started the war or encouraged the Iraqis to attack. ANd if I understand it also Great Britain, France, Ger
106 Netdhaka : The Amir of Qatar is not corrupt?? This guy and his fellow family members are as corrupt as those of the house of Al-Sauds. Apart from the mass finan
107 QR332 : I am done with this thread, but this I have to reply to: How is the Emir of Qatar corrupt? Saudi Arabia keeps the country's wealth within the royal fa
108 N74JW : So, you don't like U.S. troops stationed in Qatar, but you think American dollars in investment is alright?
109 Halls120 : Why should they care? Well, for starters, aren't law abiding Muslims always complaining about the discrimination they receive? Seems to me they ought
110 Searpqx : Agreed, but as long as most Muslims maintain this attitude: And continue to claim that 'those terrorists' don't really represent Islam, so they don't
111 QR332 : And what, exactly, is the problem with that? Do I have to support needless wars in order to support the economic growth of Qatar?
112 Lehpron : As far as the thread/forum/internet, I find people are more honest here than in real life. There are no true authoritative figures here and thus peop
113 Scbriml : I don't see any issue with this. The stationing of US troops in Qatar is totally unrelated to the $billions of investments that US companies are maki
114 Mandala499 : No, it's the whining segment of the moderates and the radicals alike... whiners exist... and they always claim discrimination. Yet another topic drag
115 Post contains links Wingnut767 : (fair use excerpt) The State of Jihad: 2007 By Bill RoggioDecember 31, 2007 2:10 PM The US and her allies in Europe, the Middle East, and beyond have
116 Post contains links and images Mandala499 : More ways to stop radical Islam... We need more of... empowering women... to get jobs like... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ3FjbO_a4 It'll be a sl
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