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City Of CLE Sues 21 Banks In Subprime Fiasco  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

From the city hardest hit by the Subprime nightmare that is still unfolding across the nation"

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/11/real...t/index.htm?postversion=2008011114

I'm not sure if I agree with the suit, but their is no doubt the greed and lack of oversight on the banking industry has played a huge role in this housing collapse, and maybe a hard shot to the groin is what is needed to get the banks back in line.

Also below is an interesting article about how bad it is in CLE and what led to it.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/12/real...land_foreclosure_factors/index.htm

And, please, to some of our conservative friends-don't go blaming homeowners who were only trying to better their lives. For ONCE put the blame on banks and lending institutions, who KNEW they were offering a con to many people. The banks have gotten away with robbery the last few years with this abomination of a "banking reform", that gave them billions, and made it next to impossible for people to get out of debt, and be at the mercy of banks for years upon years.

The fault is not with the consumer-it is with the lending institutions, who violated the trust of their customers, by putting out a product that they said was safe and above board, and was neither.

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2042 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1831 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
The fault is not with the consumer-it is with the lending institutions, who violated the trust of their customers, by putting out a product that they said was safe and above board, and was neither.

I'm sorry Falcon, but it IS the fault of not only the lending institutions, but ALSO the consumers. It's just like smoking. The consumer KNOWS it's bad for them, but they keep smoking. The makers keep making the smokes and they KNOW its bad for their consumers.

Sorry. But people should have realized that what ever their situation, buying too much house, getting an ARM, 125% financing, whatever, they should at least take SOME blame.

This is not different than buying too much car, or taking a loan which has some off their old car debt on it (so-called payoff loans), etc, and having it repo'ed... Again, we should put some blame on the dealer that did the deal, but the consumer should know that paying $500 for 6 years on a $15,000 car is craziness. But they do it anyway. This happens thousands of times EACH DAY, and no ones shouting for the dealers to be punished.

So I'm not saying the lenders shouldn't be punished, they absolutely should, and I'm glad some of them are having to shut their doors for doing so. But the American public must get over this idea that they can do no wrong and get compensated for it when they actually do. I can list example after example...



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1820 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
don't go blaming homeowners who were only trying to better their lives. For ONCE put the blame on banks and lending institutions, who KNEW they were offering a con to many people. The banks have gotten away with robbery the last few years with this abomination of a "banking reform", that gave them billions, and made it next to impossible for people to get out of debt, and be at the mercy of banks for years upon years.

Oh, far be it from me to ever suggest anyone take responsibility for educating themselves and making the right choice when it comes to things that affect their lives for the next 30 years. No, never. The government is responsible for this and every other problem people have.... Fires, floods, famines, mouse infestations, hurricanes, tornadoes, drunk driving, playing in the street, assuming loans they know damned well they can't pay off, etc.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
The fault is not with the consumer-it is with the lending institutions, who violated the trust of their customers, by putting out a product that they said was safe and above board, and was neither.

Yep, it sure is. The lending institutions held a gun to the consumer's heads and told them they'd better take out a loan they couldn't afford or else! They made the consumers "an offer they can't refuse".



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
From the city hardest hit by the Subprime nightmare that is still unfolding across the nation

Maybe CLE just has more "entitlement-minded" people that think it's the government's responsibility to bail them out when they dump on a 30 year loan 3 years into it.


User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

Can anyone say S&L crisis? It happens EVERY time there's a run up in housing prices. Developers overbuild for the market, prices come down, structural instability in the underpinnings financing the run up get exposed. Pain and hardship endured by the various parties who forgot the main mantra of assets, buy low, sell high. When you buy high, to try and sell higher, eventually you get burned. Badly.

Last time I checked the Constitution home ownership in this country wasn't an inalienable right.

I had two houses that I sold as the market was nearing it's peak. It was pretty clear to many of us that real estate in many markets had risen too quickly. I am now a renter until I see a little more deflation out of the housing market. People make CHOICES to buy or rent, with the respective pros/cons of each.

One person's pain and misfortune can be another's gain and good fortune. History repeats itself again and again. People knew better, and that includes banks and investors as well.


User currently offlineLearpilot From United States of America, joined May 2001, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1802 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
don't go blaming homeowners who were only trying to better their lives.

I have no sympathy for most of these people, and I'm far from a conservative. It's simple math: Monthly Income - Monthly Expenses = a positive number, preferably greater than $500. If not? You can't afford it. Sure, some families have fallen on hard times and I do have sympathy for them, but a majority of people who's homes are being forclosed on were bettering their lives by moving up to the 5 bedroom/4 bathroom/media room for the $3000 LCD TV McMansion because the 3br/2ba wasn't as big as what the Jones' moved up to.

I was in the position in that I lost my job back in October. I live in a 3 year old home with a $1000/mo payment. We weren't concerned one bit about my lack of employment because we actually...get this...had enough money in savings to last at least a year; probably longer since the wife works.

Wow, saving money. What a concept.



Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1789 times:



Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 1):
I'm sorry Falcon, but it IS the fault of not only the lending institutions, but ALSO the consumers.

Wrong. In a situation, there has to be some trust that, as a consumer, you know what the bank/lender is doing. You can read all the fine print you want, but in the end, the banks/lenders were deceptive at how risky these were, and they're the ones who put the loans out.

I figured it wouldn't take long for someone to blame the little guy as much, if not more, than the banks. They fucked over the consumers in another attempt at sheer greed. It wasn't enough that the "banking reform" gave them billions, it's never enough with them.

Sorry, but the blame goes to those who put out these loans, and sold them under false pretenses.


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1785 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):

There is plenty of blame to go around and I do know that some got taken advantage of. But a lot, including consumers, got greedy. The same applies to local governments, who saw their coffers expand due to the additional revenue caused by the increased prices. Governments, much like in the dot.com bubble, had no incentive to put a stop to a situation that was giving them bumper revenues.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
I figured it wouldn't take long for someone to blame the little guy as much, if not more, than the banks.

There are plenty of stories, if you care to find them, about the 'little guys' greed.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1785 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
Sorry, but the blame goes to those who put out these loans, and sold them under false pretenses.

You don't feel that there is any responsibility on the part of the consumer?

A home loan is just another "product" and caveat emptor still applies. There was no "active concealment" of any defect of the product in these cases, just a lack of understanding (or pure negligence) on the part of those who defaulted at the time they accepted the terms of the loan! As such, the consumer needs to engage the services of legal and financial counsel in cases involving such a substantial portion of the consumer's income for such a substantial amount of time.

It's just that simple.


User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1771 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
Wrong. In a situation, there has to be some trust that, as a consumer, you know what the bank/lender is doing. You can read all the fine print you want, but in the end, the banks/lenders were deceptive at how risky these were, and they're the ones who put the loans out

The loans were risky for the BANKS... not the consumers... It doesn't take an MBA to figure out if you make 30 grand a year, you can't afford a 200,000 dollar house with no money down...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
I figured it wouldn't take long for someone to blame the little guy as much, if not more, than the banks.

It's the banks that lost the money, not the little guys who got houses with no money down... They got to live above their means for practically nothing...



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineHuskyAviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1764 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 8):
It's the banks that lost the money, not the little guys who got houses with no money down... They got to live above their means for practically nothing...

That's not totally true, because when the local real estate markets crashed, those homeowners went underwater in their equity...and in some situations continue to be personally responsible for the shortfall on the note.

I see both sides' arguments, but I don't think it's right to (1) simply blame the individual, because people that lack basic understanding of finance (and that's a LOT of people) simply aren't capable of making sophisticated assessments of the market and future interest rates/payments, or (2) blame the banks, because they were assuming significant risks in running a business and could not have foreseen the market tumbling the way it did, and following legal lending practices.

The reason I favor some kind of federal plan (notice, I didn't saying intervention or bailout) to ease the crisis is because there will be a lot of collateral damage to people that have only indirect involvement in the subprime markets, such as through mutual funds, pensions, or other investments, stand to lose the most if nothing is done.


User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1754 times:



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 9):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 8):
It's the banks that lost the money, not the little guys who got houses with no money down... They got to live above their means for practically nothing...

That's not totally true, because when the local real estate markets crashed, those homeowners went underwater in their equity...and in some situations continue to be personally responsible for the shortfall on the note.

I agree totally... That's why I specified people with no money down. Many have been living in the house for a couple years and have never had any equity.

I've been getting a lot of people in the office who are getting foreclosed, and a huge majority got their houses with nothing down. Of those, about 2/3 are speculators from out of state, who bought sight unseen hoping to make a killing. I had a guy last week who makes 40K and was loaned $281K without putting ten cents into the house. He's been living in it for two months and has yet to make a payment... I had another woman who showed up driving a brand new $40,000 truck. She gets about $800 a month disability, but borrowed 125% of the value of her house to buy the truck and pay credit cards. Another couple from California were immigrants from India. They only make 20K, but lied on the application and said they make 90K to speculate on a house in Florida for $300,000 with no money down. I asked them why they lied about their income and they said "It's the American way...."

I do feel bad for these people, but I've closed dozens of loans, and I always emphasize the TILA disclosures and the buyers don't want to hear it. They just want the keys to the house...

No doubt it's a complex problem, but there's no way you can put all the blame on the banks. Most of it goes to greed IMHO.



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1750 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 10):
I always emphasize the TILA disclosures and the buyers don't want to hear it. They just want the keys to the house...

 checkmark  And that's the whole point, right there.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1740 times:



Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 1):
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
The fault is not with the consumer-it is with the lending institutions, who violated the trust of their customers, by putting out a product that they said was safe and above board, and was neither.

I'm sorry Falcon, but it IS the fault of not only the lending institutions, but ALSO the consumers. It's just like smoking. The consumer KNOWS it's bad for them, but they keep smoking. The makers keep making the smokes and they KNOW its bad for their consumers.

 checkmark 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 1):
I'm sorry Falcon, but it IS the fault of not only the lending institutions, but ALSO the consumers.

Wrong. In a situation, there has to be some trust that, as a consumer, you know what the bank/lender is doing. You can read all the fine print you want, but in the end, the banks/lenders were deceptive at how risky these were, and they're the ones who put the loans out.

You just cannot evade personal responsibility, Falcon. Should predatory lenders be prosecuted? Absolutely. But no matter how small the fine print, when someone is about to embark on the biggest financial transaction of your life, it behooves you to make sure you can afford it.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1716 times:



Quoting Queso (Reply 7):
You don't feel that there is any responsibility on the part of the consumer?

Their "responsibility", in my view, is simply wanting a roof over their heads. Again, you can read those agreements all you want, Queso, but you HAVE to put your trust in the institution that does this for a living, that these are straight-up and legit-especially from the major banks and lenders. That's the JOB of those places, and they violeted the public trust.

Quoting Queso (Reply 7):
It's just that simple.

Nothing is that simple, and you know it. Again, you seem to dismiss the fact that the banks/lenders did deceive people with these loans. When they're putting them out as safe alternatiives, that's deception. But why am I NOT surprised you're on the side of the businesses?

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 8):
The loans were risky for the BANKS... not the consumers...

 rotfl 

How the hell do you come to that conclusion when the consumers have been taken it up the ass with forclosures? That's hysterically funny. Well, it would be if it wasn't so devistating to so many families, who lost their homes.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 8):
It's the banks that lost the money, not the little guys who got houses with no money down... They got to live above their means for practically nothing...

And then lost everything when the market went south, and the truth about these loans became know. As for the bank, they're going to be able to get money from the government to cover the losses, so they didn't lose jack shit. Nice try thought.


User currently offlineHuskyAviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1710 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
When they're putting them out as safe alternatiives, that's deception. But why am I NOT surprised you're on the side of the businesses?

I don't think Queso is on the side of those businesses, he wants them to fail too. LOL.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
How the hell do you come to that conclusion when the consumers have been taken it up the ass with forclosures?

How do you NOT come to that conclusion? The banks knew that if interest rates shot up, these loans would run the risk of default, and their own liquidity goes down the drain. That's exactly the problem with the credit crunch right now, there's limited liquidity. What good is foreclosure if the house isn't worth anything when you foreclose on it? The bank (or the successor owner of the mortgage) ultimately eats the immediate fiscal loss, not the homeowner.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1710 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Quoting Queso (Reply 7):
You don't feel that there is any responsibility on the part of the consumer?

Their "responsibility", in my view, is simply wanting a roof over their heads. Again, you can read those agreements all you want, Queso, but you HAVE to put your trust in the institution that does this for a living, that these are straight-up and legit-especially from the major banks and lenders. That's the JOB of those places, and they violeted the public trust.

Hogwash. It's a business transaction. Complicated, but a business transaction. Your attitude that the poor consumer doesn't have to accept his or her share of the responsibility of being educated in a business transaction is simply misguided, and to the extent that it is widely shared, is a sad reflection on the state of our country.

Nobody held a gun to the heads of the people who signed on the dotted line to buy a home they couldn't afford.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1708 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Again, you seem to dismiss the fact that the banks/lenders did deceive people with these loans. When they're putting them out as safe alternatiives, that's deception. But why am I NOT surprised you're on the side of the businesses?

Believe me, Falcon, I really am in favor of the people who need the loans. That's why I said they need an informed ally in these types of situations....

Quoting Queso (Reply 7):
the consumer needs to engage the services of legal and financial counsel in cases involving such a substantial portion of the consumer's income for such a substantial amount of time.

Just like I won't engage in a lawsuit without a lawyer or have a large structure built without the aid of an architect, there are some things that you just have to go to a professional for. Cost is minimal when you look at the price of a house!

Edit: P.S., Falcon, let's try not to make this personal this time, mmmmmkay? Just stick to the discussion points at hand.

[Edited 2008-01-12 17:39:47]

User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

Not everyone can be a financial whiz. I find business and financial decision-making difficult to understand and very intimidating. But I can't get by in life by avoiding them. So I have to defer to someone who knows more than me. Unfortunately, the people who've been entrusted, in this case the banks and mortgage companies), lie and twist the truth in order to make a fast buck.

Before you jump my ass for being a dumb fuck, I want to say that as a nurse I find it very easy to make medical decisions regarding my family. Grandma's got what wrong? What are the benefits and risks? Pull the plug. No prob. Diabetic dad's got a foot ulcer that won't heal? Lop off the whole leg the save his life. Piece of cake. Next!

Not everyone can be an expert on everything. Understand where I (and other "stupid" people are coming from? Don't belittle them and try to rub it in. We (especially me) are already aware of our mistakes. Rubbing our noses in it doesn't help.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1700 times:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
Before you jump my ass for being a dumb fuck

Who is doing that?

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
Not everyone can be an expert on everything. Understand where I (and other "stupid" people are coming from? Don't belittle them and try to rub it in. We (especially me) are already aware of our mistakes. Rubbing our noses in it doesn't help.

That's why you get on A.net and ask all the armchair lawyers and financial advisors what to do before you go through with it!  Big grin


User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1698 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Their "responsibility", in my view, is simply wanting a roof over their heads. Again, you can read those agreements all you want, Queso, but you HAVE to put your trust in the institution that does this for a living, that these are straight-up and legit-especially from the major banks and lenders. That's the JOB of those places, and they violeted the public trust.

Hogwash. Every local community college offers classes on managing your finances, and home buying classes are offered as well. In addition you have the internet and library as resources to learn about "how to buy and finance a home".

Anyone who doesn't read the paperwork themselves and understands it is a fool. That's why you have inspections. That's why you have appraisals. That's why you hire an attorney to represent you at closing. None of them are required by law but you are playing very fast and very loose if you don't. Don't complain about getting burned because you cut corners or didn't want to spend then money for a lawyer to review your loan docs.

The fees and interest rates were disclosed to these people. It's not like the banks committed fraud by altering loan docs after the fact.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
How the hell do you come to that conclusion when the consumers have been taken it up the ass with forclosures? That's hysterically funny. Well, it would be if it wasn't so devistating to so many families, who lost their homes.

You must be joking. Repossession costs a bank about $20,000 in fees and expenses. I'm not saying the bank should be bailed out of it's bad judgement in lending to people with bad credit. Both the bank and the consumer entered into an agreement. Both are equally at fault and at risk.

Nuff said.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1694 times:



Quoting Queso (Reply 18):
Who is doing that?

It's just something I could see coming somewhere in this thread.

Quoting Queso (Reply 18):
That's why you get on A.net and ask all the armchair lawyers and financial advisors what to do before you go through with it!

I'm not that presumptuous.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1694 times:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
Not everyone can be a financial whiz. I find business and financial decision-making difficult to understand and very intimidating. But I can't get by in life by avoiding them. So I have to defer to someone who knows more than me. Unfortunately, the people who've been entrusted, in this case the banks and mortgage companies), lie and twist the truth in order to make a fast buck.

Anybody who wants to buy a home and doesn't engage the services of a lawyer or a real estate "buyers" broker to help them in that transaction is playing with fire.

I'm a lawyer, and when I bought my home, I made damn sure that I employed a real estate broker to make sure I didn't miss the any hidden details.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
I employed a real estate broker

I trusted me real estate broker. I'll put it this way... He was foreclosed upon six months after me.

[Edited 2008-01-12 18:09:09]

User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1685 times:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 22):
I trusted me real estate broker. I'll put it this way... He was foreclosed upon six months after me.

Why did you default on your loan if I can ask?


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1679 times:



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 23):
Why did you default on your loan if I can ask?

Long story short: Had to get out of medical field for what was later found to be PTSD. Watching a child murdered was too much for me. I had a long-term disability policy, but it had a low lifetime max psychological benefit, which ended before the Wisconsin disability kicked in. My mortgage company, Countrywide, wouldn't/couldn't delay on the hope that state disability would be approved.


My previous monthly income was $5000 a month. My mortgage payment was $1000 a month. I tried to sell the house, but no one bought it after being on the market for a year.


25 HuskyAviation : I'm really sorry to hear that, that really stinks. I hope you're doing better now. One of the benefits of the Bank of America purchase of Countrywide
26 AsstChiefMark : I'll be ready to go back to work in a different career. I afraid the medical diagnosis and financial problems will label me as bad goods when prospec
27 Post contains images Queso : Don't let "our liberal friends" know that....
28 AsstChiefMark : I have the worst fucking luck....
29 AndesSMF : Myself included. There are plenty of actual victims and many ways that a crooked broker could scam a consumer. One of the hidden factors was that a b
30 Post contains links and images Falcon84 : And this one is for MaidensGator, who wants us to feel bad for the poor, pitiful banks, and how they'll "lose" money in all this. Read: http://money.c
31 LTBEWR : I believe the city of Cleveland is suing as the amount of abandoned housing in the city is hurting the city and they need to recover lost revenue. Man
32 AndesSMF : And no one here is asking you to. All some want is a recognition that what occurred has plenty of guilty parties, from banks, brokers, real estate ag
33 GuitrThree : Really? "Simply wanting a roof over their heads?" Humm.. maybe I'm wrong, but don't Apartments provide roofs? How about affordable houses? Why do you
34 Falcon84 : Then I'm way overboard wrong. The consumers are in a position where they HAVE to have a semblance of trust that the banks/lenders are putting out ser
35 Post contains images MaidensGator : This advice holds true for just about any big contract you're entering into, not just real estate.... I'd love it if you'd point out where I said to
36 EvilForce : Huh? How exactly is city government responsible for housing prices and the sub-prime debacle?
37 GuitrThree : As a conservative, I, as usually, give the power to the individual, not the government. Not surprising here... Yes. You are... No.. I have TWO finger
38 AndesSMF : They are not responsible for the price rise, but benefitted nicely from the additional tax revenue due to to the boom. Hence, the cities had no incen
39 EvilForce : Ok, but how could city government "pop the bubble" even if they wanted to? You are implying that by their inaction, they actually had some action the
40 Halls120 : This is your fundamental mistake. Remember RR's famous saying, "trust, but verify?" If you rely on the other party in a transaction to always be hone
41 EvilForce : Sorry to hear about your medical problems. Also your payment was 20% of your income which anything under 25% is considered ideal. But I assume you lo
42 Post contains images Baroque : First sorry to hear of your woes ACM, hope there is a REAL solution awaiting you. At least you have a.net and 40+ folk wishing you well!! I think bet
43 EvilForce : The "Fed" doesn't set mortgage rates. Mortgage rates are set based on T-bills and long term inflation predictions. The Fed sets the discount rate, wh
44 Baroque : And you are telling me that the boom in housing prices had nothing to do with short term interest rates? Interesting!
45 LTBEWR : One source some blame for the mortgage crisis in the USA has to do with policies of the Bush Administration and the Republican party with some assista
46 AsstChiefMark : Countrywide was very strict. Whenever I tried to barter a deal or offer a payment program, their response every time was, "Payment as agreed upon by
47 GuitrThree : Then you either don't sign or find someone that can explain it to you..... Ignorance cannot be blamed on ANYONE but the ignorant themselves. Thats a
48 Comorin : Banks play by the rules set in place by the regulatory authorities. Bankers get paid huge bonuses to maximize revenue flow. They care about the consum
49 Post contains images Halls120 : Falcon set the issue out very well, IF you ignore the carte blanche he gives consumers who were too lazy, stupid, greedy, or careless when entering i
50 Pyrex : In a lot of countries most, if not all, mortgage loans are made on a prime rate + spread basis, and if you want the "protection" of a fixed interest
51 Comorin : Agreed - not to mention ARMs with intro rates...
52 Pope : So banks are really in a no-win situation. They either take a chance and lend to people who meet the federal mandated loan requirements or get sued f
53 Baroque : You have 3 propositions there. First no problem with that, just I would have a problem with most of the folk you would propose to me to do the explai
54 Post contains images Flighty : I still don't see what they want. It is banks who have suffered in this. The would-be "homeowners" out there (squatters) who don't pay their bills ca
55 GuitrThree : Sure we do.... we have people lose their truck/car everyday , either thru repo or a big loss by selling it, because they were to ignorant to realize
56 Baroque : Great sense of humour there GT, read the general to defend yourself against the specific. The local library is not going to have an analysis of "comm
57 EvilForce : My lawyer charged me $ 350 (which was rolled into the closing costs) to review all the loan paperwork, and contracts before I signed them. I would NE
58 Baroque : Probably none, yes and yes. However, it is reasonable to ask if such a system should be permitted when it can lead to problems ranging from personal
59 AndesSMF : Because in one sense so many received short term benefits from what happened, with a 'healthy' effect upon the economy of the region being affected.
60 Baroque : However, the legislative system should encourage at least medium term stability over short terms gains, especially when it is known that the sharper
61 Post contains links EvilForce : From last quarter "subprime fixed foreclosure starts increased 3 basis points to 1.38 percent, subprime ARM foreclosure starts increased 88 basis poi
62 AndesSMF : Implementation is the key, this would be very hard to do. I have been into the bubble since 2005. My house was at one point 'worth' $600K. Now I may
63 Baroque : Er yes. Maybe if the chaos is being caused by only 5 or 10% of the group, all the more reason to wonder about the wisdom of a system that is unstable
64 Post contains links EvilForce : I think you are overstating the problem. According to http://www.centralvalleybusinesstimes.com/stories/001/?ID=7534 , housing prices in Central CA V
65 Post contains links AndesSMF : Umm...wrong... As I already stated, I have seen with my own two eyes some pretty severe price drops, and even with the severe price drops, some of th
66 Halls120 : It should, but when most of our leaders are more concerned about lining their own pockets than legislating for the public good, the chance of encount
67 Post contains images MaidensGator : Maybe not, but there are pages and pages of attorneys listed in every phone book... And these mortgage holders are penalized for a debt... not ignora
68 Pope : My bet is that the person who doesn't use the lawyer is the same person who would justify their decision based on the high cost of doing so while dri
69 RJdxer : This is pretty simple. A Latin phrase suffices. Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware. What the banks were doing was/is completely legal. A home purchas
70 Post contains links Baroque : From Civil Av Khobar posts this link This is how things really are: http://break.com/index/how-we-got-into-the-subprime-mess.html From Analysts Predic
71 AsstChiefMark : " target=_blank>http://break.com/index/how-we-got-in....html They failed to mention what happens to the homeowners. Oh, that's right. They don't matte
72 Post contains images Baroque : I begin to think it is only thee and me wot worries about them ACM!! To be fair to Bird, he was deliberately putting the "City" view and emphasising
73 AndesSMF : Unfortunately, Mark, the truly hurting homeowners are being lumped together with those who truly gambled and lost big. You and Falcon lived in states
74 EvilForce : As I said above over 95% of even the riskiest loans haven't defaulted. It's 1 in 20. Look ACM, I know you had a major financial set-back due to your
75 Maidensgator : I said I'd charge that to review and explain the contract to a prospective buyer. That doesn't mean writing them a letter using more big words; I sit
76 AndesSMF : Last I read, it was assumed to be upwards of 50%. But you have to realize that many speculators stated in their loans that the houses that they purch
77 Pope : I think you're confused about what a real estate closing attorney does. First and foremost, he insures that you are obtaining good title to the prope
78 GuitrThree : Oh, you've got to be kidding me. There are a slew of financial books available to everyone. And you can use the internet to find them. For example, D
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