Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Ratzinger Showing His True Colors (again)  
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6579 posts, RR: 35
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2401 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

For the first time since the Concilium Vaticano II a mass has been oficiated with the priest, in this case the Pope, giving his back to the curchgoers. The way I see it, any hope of Catholic Church reform is going to wait a few years with this character at its helm. Sad.

[Edited 2008-01-13 13:51:13]

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2393 times:



Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
in this case the Pope, giving his back to the curchgoers.

May I ask why this is sad? Why would a religious leader turn his back on his flock? I'm not Catholic so maybe I'm missing something?


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Catholic Church reform

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[Edited 2008-01-13 13:55:04]

User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2350 times:

Reform of the Church isn't Benedict XVI. He never pretended to be for change...in fact, he was ALWAYS about keeping (and in some cases returning to) strict Catholic rules and doctrine. Yes, reform will have to wait until the next Pope, or perhaps longer. But one cannot criticize a Pope who always preached on old-school Catholicism for not reforming...

(On a side note (self gloss, which I never do) - I was lucky enough to take Communion at the Vatican on New Years Eve...maybe I WILL go to Heaven after all...ok probably not  Wink)


User currently offlineWingnut767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2340 times:



Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
any hope of Catholic Church reform

What kind of reform are you looking for?

Quoting SW733 (Reply 3):
Reform of the Church isn't Benedict XVI. He never pretended to be for change...in fact, he was ALWAYS about keeping (and in some cases returning to) strict Catholic rules and doctrine

And why is that bad?

Quoting SW733 (Reply 3):
Yes, reform will have to wait until the next Pope

What reform are you looking for?


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2323 times:



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 4):
And why is that bad?



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 4):
What reform are you looking for?

Did I ever say it was bad? Did I ever say I wanted reform? No. I was clearing up why there has been no reform (perhaps to make the Catholic Church more liberal), which apparently is what AR385 (not me) wants. I don't think major reforms will happen very often, but there will be nothing (I bet) in my current Holy Father's reign to make the Church very different in any way - especially more liberal.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6162 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2154 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 1):
Why would a religious leader turn his back on his flock

I am an Episcopalian and it is very common for the priest to have his back to the crowd. Just happened yesterday while I was at church; St. John's Episcopal in Detroit.

It isn't as common now, but when the church uses the 1928 prayer book you see more old school stuff like that. I can't speak for Catholics, but turning away from the crowd is probably a very traditional thing to do.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineEvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2147 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 6):
It isn't as common now, but when the church uses the 1928 prayer book you see more old school stuff like that. I can't speak for Catholics, but turning away from the crowd is probably a very traditional thing to do.

Interesting. Is there a reason for this? What was the purpose originally for this?

It just seems odd to me, so I assume there must be some tradition to follow and that there was a reason at one point why it was done this way.

You learn something new everyday.  Smile I've never heard of this practice before.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6162 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2130 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 7):
Is there a reason for this?

I don't really know because I have always gone to a church where it is done and I never thought twice about it. I think it may have something to do with that the priest is facing the alter in the same direction as the parishioners. That way everyone would be facing the alter. It is only done during the part of the mass. The readings and sermon are done facing the audience.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2128 times:



Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
The way I see it, any hope of Catholic Church reform is going to wait a few years with this character at its helm. Sad.

I always thought the captain at the helm of ship looked in the same direction as his crew, and vice-versa?  Wink



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

The position of women in catholic church has always been kind of a mistery and misery for me.
Female energy is systematically supressed in most religions -specifiacally in christian ans islamic religion.
Ratzinger continues the dark side of male-chauvinistic dominance within the Vatican.So if there is any reform he should atteck-it's this one ! (combined with the permission of priests to be married..)
Once you read the apocryphal Gospel of Mary Magdalene,you wonder where we male chauvinists dare to take control of christianity..
It's very interesting reading and highly recommended to all those to dare to speak in the name of the Catholic Church..
(like most gnostic textes are much more inetresting to read than the sa$nitized versions of the official Gospels..)

[Edited 2008-01-14 08:12:51]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2098 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
The position of women in catholic church has always been kind of a mistery and misery for me.

You're talking about the religion where many believe Catholics "WORSHIP" the VIRGIN MARY?!



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2098 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
Ratzinger continues the dark side

Nice! Was that done intentionally?



User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

The issue with the bible is that it is a sanitized text based on assumptions by people who wrote it long time after Jesus died.
Mary Magdalena and other apocryphal texts (who are not neccessarily Gnostic ) who have been suppressed by the church( becaus they don't fit their doma..) are the true core of the Christian religion.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offline707cmf From France, joined Mar 2002, 4885 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

Much a fuss over really... not much.

First of all, this is not the first time a priest celebrates a mass while turning his back to the attendants. It happens, from time to time, usually when the configuration of the church in question mandates it.

Check this picture of the Sixtine Chapel :



Masses are seldom celebrated there, and as you can see, the only altar in it makes it impossible to celebrate the Mass while facing the people.

Another note : the Pope yesterday celebrated the Paul VI ("Vatican II") mass. Not the 'controversial' St Pius V mass.

Cheers,

707


User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2058 times:



Quoting 707cmf (Reply 16):
Masses are seldom celebrated there, and as you can see, the only altar in it makes it impossible to celebrate the Mass while facing the people.

Actually, there is a movable smaller altar that JPII has used in the past that does face the congregation.



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21520 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2055 times:



Quoting Kalakaua (Reply 11):
You're talking about the religion where many believe Catholics "WORSHIP" the VIRGIN MARY?!

And at the same time treat women as second-rate human beings. Not a rare combination in any way.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 12):
Nice! Was that done intentionally?

Uncanny! Big grin


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

Oft times when leading a flock you must walk the direction you wish them to follow. They will see your back then, and it is no disrespect.

Many who wish to find fault with the new Pope would do so at any opportunity, and the effort to diminish his authority as Pope by referring to him by his birth name rather than his new title are the same who get offended when one refers to a transgendered individual by their birth sex. I find this somewhat hypocritical, and disrespectful.

Opinions will vary, and I'm not Catholic, but until the Pope starts acting like a warmongerer calling for the destruction of nations and ethnicities then he doesn't deserve the level of disrespect shown by many here.....who would probably wilt in the presence of the man and show nothing but deference and politesse. If he continues to disallow women in the pulpit or to decry birth control then I've got grievances with him, but there's a difference. Until he really does something about the sexual abuse problem in the Catholic church (other than sweep it up and cover it up), like become more realistic and allow priests to marry, then I've got real issues with the Church in general (you cannot live in this day and age celibate, and in the old days they never bothered to do so unless it was voluntary anyway).

The ones who mock and show open disrespect generally do so because they feel powerless to do anything else. If you really want to make your points, then do so without the invective or silly comparisons. All you're going to do is rile up the faithful and focus the argument on your use of mockery rather than the points you really have.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2043 times:



Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
And at the same time treat women as second-rate human beings. Not a rare combination in any way.

What a cheap shot. And you're saying that only the Catholic Church does that? Over-generalize much?



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21520 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2034 times:



Quoting Kalakaua (Reply 21):
What a cheap shot. And you're saying that only the Catholic Church does that? Over-generalize much?

I have not claimed that the catholic church was the only religious group to act that way. Many muslims appear to have the same combination of disparate attitudes towards women, or patriarchal societies in general all over the world.


User currently offlineSBBRTech From Brazil, joined Jul 2007, 722 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2030 times:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 12):

Nice! Was that done intentionally?

LOL, Chief, even our resident "bible thumpers" had a laugh at it.



"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3875 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

And at the same time treat women as second-rate human beings. Not a rare combination in any way.

Paying for their brothers' sin...


Thursday, October 4, 2007
Sisters can't live near church

BY COLBY FRAZIER
DAILY SOUND STAFF WRITER

Three nuns who were evicted from their Nopal Street convent in August by the Archdiocese of Los Angeles will be allowed to continue living and working in Santa Barbara city limits, according to a letter delivered to the nuns by their superior general on Oct. 1.
The only catch: they can’t live “near” Our Lady of Guadalupe Catholic Church, which their current convent is directly next to, said Ernie Salomon, a spokesman for a group called Support our Sisters of Bethany in Santa Barbara, which is trying to raise money to relocate the nuns.

The convent is one of several properties owned by the Archdiocese that have they claim will be sold to help pay a $650 million priest sex abuse settlement.


http://sbdailysound.blogspot.com/200...sisters-cant-live-near-church.html



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

[

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 24):
And at the same time treat women as second-rate human beings. Not a rare combination in any way.

Now how is the church selling a piece of property they own treating women as second rate human beings. It didn't say they were throwing them out on the street. The article also does not give a reason that the next residence cannot be near the church, but I would think it has something to do with property values and the need to profit from the sale. Would you rather the church simply declare bankruptcy and not pay? Wait, then they would be an airline...



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1995 times:

For those who did not know, the Catholic Church only recently introduced mass in the language of the region. Prior to this, it was only in Latin.

At the same time, priests would give masses giving their backs to their flock, as they would always face the altar. The altar was moved to allow the priest to face their flock and altar at the same time.


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3875 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1995 times:

but I would think it has something to do with property values and the need to profit from the sale. Would you rather the church simply declare bankruptcy and not pay?

There's a brand new cathedral in downtown L.A. that would fetch a lot more.




Ain't I a stinker?
25 Lowrider : And displace hundreds or even thousands of (donating) church goers in the process, vs 3 people. I am not a fan of the Catholic Church, but I don't wa
26 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : That's their fault. It's like volunteering time and/or donating (or loaning) money to the OJ Simpson's defense fund. It's a gamble with high odds fro
27 AndesSMF : There are some that have some hope of getting in still. Others, like you and I, are lost causes already.
28 Post contains images Confuscius : That is, unless you think donating money will earn you brownie points toward getting into Heaven. Good ole Indulgence, eh?
29 Post contains images JGPH1A : And how much respect do we feel he actually deserves ? He's the leader of a cult. Big whoop. So is Sun Yung Moon. Even President Bush at least had th
30 KLM685 : I don't see anything wrong. We just went back to tradition and his job was to do what he did. It's not about not being polite, he's showing his respec
31 AR385 : I have to love you for the above!
32 AR385 : The Concilio Vaticano II reformed the church by, among other things: 1. Allowing women to go to mass with their heads uncovered 2. Allowing mass to b
33 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : Are you sure they didn't have sex with each other? Picture it in your mind.
34 Flighty : His ability to make things more conservative is limited by his lifespan. He will be gone in 10 years or less probably, as he himself has said. Therefo
35 Post contains images JGPH1A : No - that's the Islamic version of the 75 virgins. And besides - have you ever seen a Cardinal up close ?
36 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : Loads of them. The feeder's full of 'em in the winter.
37 EvilForce : If I'm not mistaken it's in conservative parts of the world like Latin America and Africa where the Catholic church is thriving and growing especiall
38 Post contains images JGPH1A : And you'd sleep with that ? My my, standards are way down in Wisconsin ! Must be the cold winters
39 AndesSMF : Did you not indirectly answer your own question?
40 Lowrider : Different from requiring. The way I read it is that it is at the option of the priest. Glad your not prone to histrionics.
41 Post contains images DL021 : I'd say that the Church's treatment of women is less than as equals, but you seem...oh wait.... Yeah...ok....there's the comparison I was waiting for
42 LH498 : Actually what Pope Benedikt XVI is doing, is simply Allowing the celebration of the mass in the old way, it is not an edict ordering regression to th
43 Confuscius : The best part of it is that I still have the liberty to decide what kind of mass, and in what language, to attend. Agree, as long as it's short. I usu
44 Post contains images JGPH1A : You and I seem to have different views on what constitutes "democratic". "Selected by people nominated to their positions by his dead predecessor" is
45 707CMF : Mmmmm. Even in the 'traditionalist' churches (where mass is celebrated in Latin every sunday without authorisation of the official Church), most wome
46 Scbriml : They're just like the vast majority of Muslim women then. It's not like he's alone in that opinion though, is it?
47 Post contains images Toast :
48 DL021 : Not really....I did qualify my point by adding that it was the churches mechanism for democracy. Not in a significant portion of the non-western worl
49 Post contains links and images Scbriml : Which "non-Western" Muslim countries force women to wear veils and don't allow them to drive? I can only think of one of the many Muslim countries I'
50 Overlander : If only we were all as 'wise' as you. All the best, Overlander[Edited 2008-01-15 17:50:11]
51 Post contains images JGPH1A : Yes, if only... I'll just bask here in the warm glow of my smug self-satisfaction, shall I ?
52 Kaitak : I see that, today in Rome, the Pope was stopped from visiting a university (La Sapienza, I think) because of his attitude on various social issues; st
53 Babybus : There's no disrespect in turning your back to the crowd. I sometimes sit in the side chapel, I don't think the priest thinks that I or anybody else is
54 Post contains links and images Baroque : http://www.inter-islam.org/Prohibitions/alcohol2.htm "They ask you regarding wine and gambling. Say, in both of them is major sin, and there is some
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Iraqi Military; Showing True Colors posted Wed Mar 26 2003 07:09:47 by FLYYUL
9V Will Be Showing His Ass At Tesco posted Tue Oct 31 2006 18:35:25 by Cosec59
Pac 10 Officials Show Their True Colors posted Sun Sep 17 2006 01:31:00 by S12PPL
Someone's Very Angry With His Ex-Girlfriend posted Wed Jan 9 2008 07:26:54 by Jush
Boy Defends His Mom With Lightsaber posted Fri Jan 4 2008 06:06:22 by Airlinelover
Man Catches His Fiancee's Lost Jewlery.. Fishing. posted Fri Jan 4 2008 06:01:42 by Airlinelover
Inmate Sues Govt For Not Preventing His Escapes posted Fri Jan 4 2008 04:57:31 by Airlinelover
Large Knickers? You're The New Fire Prevention. posted Wed Jan 2 2008 10:19:30 by Gofly
An Hdmi Is An Hdmi? How True? posted Wed Jan 2 2008 08:54:52 by Mirrodie
My Grandfather Has Died In His Sleep posted Wed Jan 2 2008 04:00:51 by LTU932