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George Bush And The Axis Of Evil - The Economist  
User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1826 posts, RR: 16
Posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 850 times:

George Bush and the axis of evil

Jan 31st 2002
From The Economist print edition

America is set on a brave but hazardous course

THERE is no doubt that it is a memorable phrase. George Bush's declaration in his state-of-the-union speech to Congress on January 29th that “an axis of evil” threatens the peace of the world will stand alongside Ronald Reagan's description of the Soviet Union as “an evil empire”—as, no doubt, it was intended to. It is also, like that previous slogan, meant to galvanise support by turning a long and tricky foreign-policy challenge into a simple, moral issue. That very simplicity may lead many people, especially outside America, to dismiss it as empty or to condemn it as foolish. On the second count, only time will tell. But the first is surely wrong. One thing that has become clear about President Bush is that, although he may not say very much, he tends to mean what he says.

What he said in his speech was not entirely new, but it was remarkable nonetheless (see article). Alongside the usual, easily forgettable stuff about unity and patriotism, and alongside the things he has said repeatedly in recent months about America being engaged in a long struggle against terrorism, President Bush made two broad points that will be important in the coming months and years for Americans and non-Americans alike. The first was that he pointed a finger directly at three countries—Iraq, North Korea and Iran—which he accused of arming themselves with weapons of mass destruction and forming that soon-to-be-famous axis of evil. In effect, he pledged to disarm them, whether by military or other means, and to do so sooner rather than later. No dates were set, nor plans laid out. But he made a clear pledge that this would form the core of America's—ie, his—foreign policy. The second was that this policy would be steered by a clear set of values: “non-negotiable demands”, no less, of human dignity. American presidents often talk about values. What is important here, though, is how the talk could bite. Many of America's allies do not meet his list of values, let alone its enemies.


From Jefferson to Wilson

George Bush, whether as president, governor or just plain mister, has also often talked of his values. But, when he talked about foreign affairs, he gave the impression of wanting America's engagement with the world to be limited. The country should be “humble, but strong”, he said. It should be effective when deploying military or other power overseas, but should do so sparingly and, it was implied, only for limited periods of time. With that approach, he was broadly in the tradition of Thomas Jefferson, even if by no means in his intellectual league. But with this speech, he changed tradition. His words placed him far closer to President Woodrow Wilson, the idealist whose “fourteen points” on human rights brought about the League of Nations in 1918 but persuaded Congress to reject its ratification.

Can that be right? Not entirely: President Bush does not otherwise exude a Wilsonian idealism. But he does share his missionary zeal. What seems to have happened is that, thanks to September 11th, he has found himself far more deeply engaged in foreign affairs than he expected to be. Well aware of the threat from unpredictable dictatorships wielding missiles and weapons of mass destruction, he had not expected to be fighting a war within a year of taking office. Now, the battle against the al-Qaeda terrorist network is, as he said, going to be a long and painstaking one. It is not over in Afghanistan, and must also be pursued in other countries. That conflict has also convinced him, just as it has convinced or reminded many others, that the spread of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons poses an even bigger threat to the world's safety than do suicidal hijackers. So this too, though formally a separate issue from the battle against al-Qaeda, means that America has a cause it must pursue overseas. Limited engagement is not an option. And in taking on that burden President Bush, like President Reagan before him, is a man of instincts, who favours straightforward yardsticks to guide him.

This approach has some clear virtues. First and foremost, it is surely correct that both the pursuit of al-Qaeda and the control of weapons proliferation are essential and urgent. In the past, too much lip-service has been paid to them and too little action. Second, it is welcome that America's president has committed himself to these tasks. While the worst outcome of the war in Afghanistan would have been defeat, the second worst would have been a victory followed by American disengagement both from Afghanistan itself and from the wider problems that lie behind the terror. Third, a clear declaration of intent, by a man and an administration that have already showed that they mean business (in a non-Enron way), could have a salutary, chilling effect on rogues and malefactors everywhere. It will not be enough, but it is a welcome start.

It brings vices, too, however. One is simply integral to the task: that, by undertaking this project, America will undoubtedly make itself a continued target for terrorism and for criticism. Though they and their associates have suffered heavy blows in Afghanistan, militant Islamists are certain to carry on their fight (see article). The jihad may take a different form, quite probably one of attacks on American bases and operations overseas—which the engagement promised this week will extend in both geography and time. By switching attention to countries rather than just terrorists, President Bush was also raising the stakes in other ways (see article). Until now, Iran had been a semi-ally in the fight in Afghanistan. China, acquiescent in America's efforts, will raise its eyebrows at the mention of North Korea, of which it is, in an admittedly awkward fashion, an ally. No one will have been surprised at the mention of Iraq, least of all Saddam Hussein, but many will wonder what America actually plans to do.

The other vice—or, at least, hazard—lies with those “non-negotiable demands” about values. The list was impressive, and no westerner could disagree with the gist of it: “the rule of law...respect for women...private property...free speech...equal justice...religious tolerance.” The aim is admirable. The application will be harder. It will be harder because so many countries around the world do disagree with it, including many that now play host to American bases or are acting as allies: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwait, Uzbekistan, to name but a few. It will be harder also, though, if the list comes to be a rigid indicator of who must be an ally and who an enemy. Alas, democracies that follow these values are also capable, on occasion, of being in the wrong and even of committing atrocities. The danger that President Bush might take too rigid an approach, with a ruinous effect on his other foreign-policy goals, is particularly acute in the Middle East (see article).

And there is another task. If America is to achieve these ambitious and worthy goals, it is going to need help. Plainly, it does not need military help; its European allies should be feeling shamed by the technological and practical prowess it has shown in Afghanistan. But it will need help with much else: sanctions, financial controls, diplomatic persuasion, the enforcement of anti-proliferation measures, police work, intelligence. However fine its values and just its cause, it will need to nurture the support of others. That support is more fragile than it should be, but also America seems less conscious than it needs to be of the importance of maintaining it. To fight an axis of evil, even a superpower needs an axis of its own.


- (the reason for posting this and the FT article was to illustrate a slightly more educated form of opinion than what usuall passes for 'Facts' on this forum) -

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 798 times:

Ya, the Economist tends to stand out from other Euro-based papers, in that it has always been an ardent supporter of America's dealings with the outside world (well, it is called the Economist after all  Wink/being sarcastic ); but this is why I pay to have it delivered to my door every Friday-different slant on different issues, nice little section on Books and Science, and 'liberal'/sensible/intelligent stance on contemporary issues. (esp. free markets!)


I haven't decided whether I am more a 'Jefforsonian' or 'Wilsonian', but wasn't it Gladstone who said 'Good governance begins @ home'? (or something like that?, with all the implications that has with for.diplomacy).

One of the few things I have never got round to, is buying a book on US foreign policy-the economist recommends:

'Special Providence: American Foreign Policy and How it Changed the World' by Walter Russell Mead'.

This is the one I will probably get. Only time will tell whether the US way of selling their version of freedom to the world will work.

One thing's for sure though, I am sure all of us would rather live in the US than in Iran, Iraq or DRK!

Regards


User currently offlineEmiratesLover From Malta, joined Dec 2000, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 764 times:

How Iran, Iraq and North Korea could be an ``axis of evil'' I do not understand.

Iran and Iraq do not get on.North Korea is thousand of miles away.None of these countries was directly implicated, to the best of my knowledge for the carnage of Sept. 11.

Sounds like George Bush's tirade against smaller nations
is designed to emulate the ``us vs them'' mentality that has been a cornerstone of American attempts to vilify countries they do not like.Not surprisingly, the hyperbolic speech was criticized by many outside America as being a crude form of incitement.Too bad Bush was incapable of rising above.

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 761 times:

How Iran, Iraq and North Korea could be an ``axis of evil'' I do not understand.<.b>

Of course you don't, EmriatesLover! You can't see that Iraq has used chemical weapons ON IT'S OWN PEOPLE; you conveniently leave off that Iraq launched an invasion of conquest against a fellow Arab country; you dismiss the fact that Hussein has supported terrorists groups since he assumed power.

You don't remember that Iran took diplomats as hostages-something alien to respectable nations; you don't seem to grasp that they foment and support terrorists groups to fight Israel-Hezbollah has strong ties to Iran; you don't take seriously the 20 year old chant "Death To America".

You don't recognize that the PRK has actively sought missile technology-for nuclear, biological and chemical arms; you don't want to conceed that they fund and train terrorists around the world, while letting their own people starve at home.

As for the rest of your statement-same old, same old. You blame and curse the nation that stands up for something decent in the world, and you embrace those that would destroy decency.

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 761 times:

Oops, sorry for not checking more closely on my bold type on the last post. My apologies for any confusion.

User currently offlineEmiratesLover From Malta, joined Dec 2000, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 755 times:

No that is OK.

You misunderstood me.I am not trying to say that these three countries have not done anything wrong - of course they have done a number of thing which need to be opposed.

What I meant to say was these 3 countries are not aligned in the same way that Germany, the Facists or the Japanese were,or in the same way as the Communist bloc countries.These were countries who did wrong things, but they have not come together in an alliance to destroy America or something terrible like that.They just happen to be three small countries that have done some wrong things that the US has inaccurately lumped togther in a sweep that is neither helpful nor accurate.

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 755 times:

You misunderstood me.I am not trying to say that these three countries have not done anything wrong - of course they have done a number of thing which need to be opposed.

What I meant to say was these 3 countries are not aligned in the same way that Germany, the Facists or the Japanese were,or in the same way as the Communist bloc countries.


Now you're taking something literal that wasn't meant as literal-and you know it wasn't meant as a literal "axis". But there's no doubt that these three countries are major destabalizers in the world today, and they constitute a threat to what is decent in the world. If you're going to oppose President Bush because of semantics, then you're looking for reasons to oppose what is justifiable.

User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 731 times:

"Axis" was not meant to imply that the three countries are allied with each other, but rather that they are allied with "evil". They may not have "come together in an alliance to destroy America" but are doing so independently. Also, North Korea is selling both Iran and Iraq missiles and other weapons.

Pete



User currently offlineMusalmaan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 733 times:

You can't see:

. That axis of evil are USA/India/Israel/China/Russia/France/Britain/Germany and Japan.

Go ahead, with your carroty fingers, flame ME!!!!

I ain't gonna waste time telling you why I wrote the true axis of evil because I can't change anybody's mind over here.
May Allah SWT show you the right path so you can become a Muslim.  Smile

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 724 times:

You're not even worth replying to anymore, Musalmaan. You're so far off the deep end, that it would do no good.

And I'm quite happy being a Christian, thank you.

User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2029 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 726 times:

Hey Mussalman, which madrassa did you learn that stuff from ? Could you give us its co-ordinates so we can pass it on to the USAF ?

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 721 times:

Barfbag!! ROTFLMAO!!

 Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

Three thumbs up!

User currently offlineEmiratesLover From Malta, joined Dec 2000, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 706 times:

``But there's no doubt that these three countries are major destabalizers in the world ''

Oh please! Are you trying to tell me that these three countries were resposible for Sep 11 or for the human rights abuses of Israel's army.Or for the fact that the US threatens to inundate the low-lying nations of the world by refusing to co-operate in the fight agaisnt global warming.

Iran has repeatedly called for conciliation with the US and has tried to distance itself from the AlQaeeda thugs.North Korea and Iraq are too weak to make too much trouble.No question thse countries havedone a lot of wrong things but to say they are major destabilizers is absolutely ludicrous with view to what countries like the US and Israel are doing.


``That axis of evil are USA/India/Israel/China/Russia/France/Britain/Germany and Japan.''

Listen to me mate ! If you are incapable of discussing things rationally, then please do us all a favour.Keep your distance from this forum.The world has enough anger and injustice as it is.Fanning the flames does no good at all.If you want to change peoples minds and stick up for justice, then be objective and expose injustice.Rantings like yours does not help.




User currently offlineG-KIRAN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2000, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 700 times:

BarfBag:Hey Mussalman, which madrassa did you learn that stuff from ? Could you give us its co-ordinates so we can pass it on to the USAF?

Way a go BarfBag!! Big thumbs up Big thumbs up Big thumbs up Big thumbs up Big thumbs up
I was LOL when I read his joke!

Musalmaan:That axis of evil are USA/India/Israel/China/Russia/France/Britain/Germany and Japan

Are OBL and Saddam A.net forum members?Musalmaans phrase is as stupid as the "Iraq can defeat the USA" rethoric.


G-KIRAN


User currently offlineG-KIRAN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2000, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 698 times:

I would also love Musalmaan to give an explanation on why he thinks that the Axis of Evil is.......

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 694 times:

Oh please! Are you trying to tell me that these three countries were resposible for Sep 11 or for the human rights abuses of Israel's army.Or for the fact that the US threatens to inundate the low-lying nations of the world by refusing to co-operate in the fight agaisnt global warming.

And you critisize Musalmaan for his stance? You want it both ways!! Again, if you can't see the history of these nations, and their exporting of terror and destabalization, and instead you want to harp on Israel for defending itself, and for the U.S. for pre-emtive action in trying to prevent another 9-11, then you have no business critsizing anyone on here. The record is there for the world to see. Simply ignoring it because of your pettiness against the U.S. and Israel doesn't make it otherwise.

User currently offlineGekkogecko From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 699 times:

Unfortunately I have only a german source:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,182066,00.html

It's about Jörg Haiders visit in Iraq. I don't find anything to this Topic at www.cnn.com.

User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 676 times:

Honnestly, I would love to have other countries deciding who should (or should not...) be included in this Axis of Evil.
God W. Bush should think twice about this if he wants support.


Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineEmiratesLover From Malta, joined Dec 2000, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 672 times:

``And you critisize Musalmaan for his stance? You want it both ways!! Again, if you can't see the history of these nations, and their exporting of terror and destabalization, and instead you want to harp on Israel for defending itself, and for the U.S. for pre-emtive action in trying to prevent another 9-11, then you have no business critsizing anyone on here. The record is there for the world to see. Simply ignoring it because of your pettiness against the U.S. and Israel doesn't make it otherwise''

Sigh...anyone would think you are trying your best NOT to understand my point of view.

I think these three countries have done bad things but to call them an Axis of evil is ludicrous, given the fact that they had nothing to do with the Sept. 11 or with the violence in Palestine.Instead of lashing out against smaller countries, the Bush administration should instead focus it's energy on eliminating terror AND injustices that lead to it.And let us not forget that the US itself has done quite a lot of bad things in it's own history.


And I do not apologize for diagreeing with Musalmaan - his style of writing does not impress anyone, myself included....it is just too extreme.My advice is that peole should oppose injustice rather that spreading hate

User currently offlineMusalmaan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 665 times:

Okay, here is my ideas as to why....
Again, I don't go to any madaris or anything near that.

Britain/France/Germany: Germany due to its neo nazis. France due to its double end tongue. Britain, because I hate their idea of calling their former colonies 'family' and their grand motherly attitude.

Japan: Even though they know the wrath and destruction from nuclear bomb, they are yet unable to solve the problem of China and North Korea or Pakistan or India despite being powerful. They think that USA can do everything. Also there non apology to Koreans and Chinese for WW2.

India: The treatment given to sikhs in 80s and muslims in 'certain' areas sickens me.

Israel: Their obvious chant of 'self defence' and abusing of Palestine's territory.

USA: Vietnam war, atomic bomb, military aggression, big brotherly attitude, weapon production, spy settalites, spy rings and so on.

and add countries like Iran and Iraq on the list who are nothing more than babbling hypocrites killing their own civilians. Heck even add Pakistan who can't care for their civilians because they are more interested in some worthless weapons.

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