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Castro Quits  
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5825 posts, RR: 41
Posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3942 times:

FIDEL Castro resigned today as president and commander in chief of Cuba, the online official press said.
More to come .....

bolt from the blue?

http://edition.cnn.com/


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
206 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3943 times:

Yet he still lives.  bored 

-UH60


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Adios Commandante. His brother Raul who has been basically running things for a year at least. Castro has been in seclusion since late 2006 I think. Nothing is going to change much, those people will still live in Communism.

User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3072 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Wow. I wonder if the country will now evolve out of the 1950's...  crossfingers 


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5825 posts, RR: 41
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3932 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Nothing is going to change much, those people will still live in Communism.

bit like the current situation in Russia..  Wink



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

i'd love to travel around that country before it changes. Maybe i should go soon.

User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Official media in Cuba are quoting Fidel Castro as saying he will not seek a new presidential term.

State run newspaper Granma quotes the leader as saying, "I will not aspire nor I will accept, the position of President of the Council of State and Commander-in-Chief."

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331149,00.html

Castro came into power in 1959 and has outlasted nine U.S. presidents.

[Edited 2008-02-19 00:17:04]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3868 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 6):
Official media in Cuba are quoting Fidel Castro as saying he will not seek a new presidential term.

Like the Cubans actually had a choice in the matter.  rotfl   rotfl 


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12065 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3865 times:



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 3):
I wonder if the country will now evolve out of the 1950's...

Would moving into the 1960s be any better for Cuba?  bouncy 

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 6):
Castro came into power in 1959 and has outlasted nine U.S. presidents.

Well, to put things into prospective, we only allow our Presidents to stick around for a maximum of 8 years.

Now, how long before Raul gets to sick to run (down) the country? Who will he turn power over too?
 duck   duck   duck 

Do you think now we can get hold of some "choice" '59 Chevies and '57 Ford Crown Vickys.  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3858 times:



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 3):
Wow. I wonder if the country will now evolve out of the 1950's...

Probably not.

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 5):
i'd love to travel around that country before it changes. Maybe i should go soon

There is no rush. I doubt we will be seeing any changes any time soon. I mean Raul has basically been in charge and will probably stay in charge. No change.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):
Like the Cubans actually had a choice in the matter.

Yea really.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Well, to put things into prospective, we only allow our Presidents to stick around for a maximum of 8 years.

"we" being the operative word there.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3856 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Do you think now we can get hold of some "choice" '59 Chevies and '57 Ford Crown Vickys.

Nope.
Those owners are very proud of their cars and are not going to get rid of them.
What ever changes take place in Cuba, I hope it's by the people who live in Cuba and not the mobsters in south Florida.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3852 times:

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 5):
i'd love to travel around that country before it changes. Maybe i should go soon.

I wonder if any of the travel restrictions would change . . . I'd imagine not, and all the policies towards Cuba will probably remain in effect, at least in the short term. There may be efforts to get Raul to consider more democratic policies with (in)Fidel out of the way. Probably won't work, though - hate to say it, but they'd need an insurrection there if they want to get rid of the current "elites".

[Edited 2008-02-19 00:49:27]

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5949 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3818 times:
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I am sure this announcement is part of a strategy to prepare the Cubans for Castro's death. He is probably dying now, and will be dead in a few days.

His brother is 76, so I believe we'll see more changes in the future, as Castro's goal was to have "a younger generation" running the country.

Interesting times.



MGGS
User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3816 times:



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 11):
I wonder if any of the travel restrictions would change . . . I'd imagine not, and all the policies towards Cuba will probably remain in effect, at least in the short term. There may be efforts to get Raul to consider more democratic policies with (in)Fidel out of the way. Probably won't work, though - hate to say it, but they'd need an insurrection there if they want to get rid of the current "elites".

no travel restrictions for me as a Canadian. We can go there freely as we want. Many of my friends have gone there, but they went on winter vacations and essentially went straight to the resorts and didnt leave until they had to go to the airport. I would rather travel around the country and experience the actual country, not some resort that could be reincarnated anywhere else in the Caribbean.

Reports are saying that they government will elect a new leader later this month. Is it expected that they will elect his brother, or someone new? Castro himself hinted that he kind of wanted someone younger to become el presidente.


User currently offlineFlashFlyGuy From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3807 times:



Quoting AR385 (Reply 12):
I am sure this announcement is part of a strategy to prepare the Cubans for Castro's death. He is probably dying now, and will be dead in a few days.

Or, he is already dead...but it will be announced "officially" in a few days.  Wink

Has Fidel himself appeared on TV to do these announcements?

Could just be the usual misinformation that these sort of regimes are known for.


User currently offlineSignol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 2985 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3801 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 1):
Yet he still lives.

You may not agree with his politics, but isn't that a little far? Unlike most other communist countries, hasn't Cuba been closest to "pure communism / marxism"? From each what he is able, to each what he needs? I'm not aware of any gulag-style labour camps for political opponents, or KGB style secret police (do correct me if I'm wrong). Let's hope his resignation does pave the way for democratic elections in the near future.

signol



Flights booked: none :(
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12046 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3796 times:
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Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 11):
I'd imagine not, and all the policies towards Cuba will probably remain in effect, at least in the short term.

The US sanctions will remain in effect and their affect will be the same. The sanctions have achieved nothing in 50 years other than making the life of the average Cuban harder.



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3777 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 17):
The US sanctions will remain in effect and their affect will be the same. The sanctions have achieved nothing in 50 years other than making the life of the average Cuban harder.

 checkmark   checkmark 

I have been to Cuba many times and travelled all over the country. Its a wonderful place. Go soon before it becomes an extension of Florida !!!



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5577 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3776 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 1):
Yet he still lives

If anyone said that about George Bush the post would last about 5 seconds . . .

While Cuba was an economic basked case 15 years ago, there seemed to be a genuine affection among the people for their leader, unlike the totalitarian regimes in Eastern Europe. They hated the system, but respected the man.

I found the people extraordinarily friendly, and I don't think I've ever seen such a healthy-looking nation in my life. And it was very safe. Hopefully things will change for the better now. The people of Cuba deserve it.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3770 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 19):
If anyone said that about George Bush the post would last about 5 seconds . . .

Probably. And it would be because people are way too freakin' sensitive, and can't stand other people having an opinion.

I don't care for the man, and I personally believe that, as long as he lives, it is a major obstacle to any type of progress for Cuba. It's simply my opinion, and if people are so damn offended by it, then they need to chill out and realize there are much more important things in life to get upset over.

In other words, they need to chill the f*ck out.

- UH60


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3763 times:



Quoting Signol (Reply 16):
KGB style secret police (do correct me if I'm wrong)

Dead wrong.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3738 times:



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):
Like the Cubans actually had a choice in the matter.

Yep. Castro is still the central figure, leader of Cuba just that Raul will be officially in charge. This has
been so for the past few years since Fidel's physical and mental health have gone south

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
I hope it's by the people who live in Cuba and not the mobsters in south Florida.

pff lmao oh yeah sure "mobsters"... because they don't approve of you going to take advantage of the cheap cuban hookers?  Wink

That's your view as a tourist check out how great it can be to live in Cuba:

Here's a video of one of the types of cells where Dr. Elias Biscet has been jailed, a christian doctor who was the first to publically question the government making him Cuba's most famous dissident. http://www.cubaverdad.net/a_cuban_punishment_cell.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_El%C3%ADas_Biscet


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5577 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3731 times:



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 20):
And it would be because people are way too freakin' sensitive, and can't stand other people having an opinion.

I agree. There's too much censorship on this site. And people rush to the SD button at the drop of a hat.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 20):
It's simply my opinion, and if people are so damn offended by it, then they need to chill out and realize there are much more important things in life to get upset over.

Well, what happens, or does not happen, to Castro will have no effect whatsoever on my life, nor to I have any feelings, either positive or negative about the man, but I was just highlighting the hypocrisy on this site where one leader is fair game and another not.


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3720 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 23):
but I was just highlighting the hypocrisy on this site where one leader is fair game and another not.

One is dictator, the other is not. Fair enough for me.


User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3712 times:



Quoting Signol (Reply 16):
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 1):
Yet he still lives.

You may not agree with his politics, but isn't that a little far? Unlike most other communist countries, hasn't Cuba been closest to "pure communism / marxism"? From each what he is able, to each what he needs? I'm not aware of any gulag-style labour camps for political opponents, or KGB style secret police (do correct me if I'm wrong). Let's hope his resignation does pave the way for democratic elections in the near future.

Just because you're obviously ignorant about everything that goes on behind the scenes, doesn't mean these things don't go on. Socialism is dead in Cuba, has been dead for a while. Cuba is mostly a black market where people trade stuff to survive. Those in the government live like kings. I don't see how that can be "pure marxism". It's a pure communist dictatorship though.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 17):
The US sanctions will remain in effect and their affect will be the same. The sanctions have achieved nothing in 50 years other than making the life of the average Cuban harder.

 checkmark  I agree. Could Cuba be like China is now w/out sanctions? Likely, but Castro has been very stubborn himself, unlike the chinese. He's hated the US almost as much as the Islamists hate Israel.


25 Post contains images Braybuddy : Both have left their countries in a mess. And I wonder which is the more popular . . . what was GWB's last approval rating?
26 Signol : Sorry to stir up the hornets' nest. I'll readily admit I know little about Cuba, mostly coming from a biography of Che Guavara and various Holiday ty
27 Jetblueguy22 : Yeah. Hopefully it will be a younger generation that is a democracy. Blue
28 Miamiair : They both have to quit and leave and it will still be status quo. They have installed a military infrastructure that handles all the main commerce on
29 LTBEWR : At I believe 80 years old or so and in poor health, it is just a matter of time for Fidel's demise. As previously noted, his brother Raul has been the
30 Post contains images Signol : Thanks signol
31 Post contains images Helvknight : Apparently he survived something like 600 assassination attempts in 49 years as well as almost outlasting 10 US presidents.
32 Faustino927 : What this old fart should do is croak! He has brought nothing but misery to the Cuban people. Enough is enough!!!!
33 Santosdumont : I think Fidel's "announcement" (could be a ghost-writer for all we know) simply codifies a situation that has been in place pretty much since when he
34 RJdxer : So has Senator Bryrd of West Virgina. The difference is in how the votes are counted. I thought there was actually a national law that does not allow
35 TACAA320 : Fidel will not seek for another term, but Raúl is still there [and both alive]. Raúl is just another dictator. And no one has good luck with his tar
36 YOWza : I was in Cuba in January. It wanted to go before Castro kicked the bucket. However it's clear that things on the ground will not chn age much anytime
37 Post contains links Slider : Why? Florida is an extension of Cuba, haha... http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/19/us.castro/index.html Great. The embargo will remain yet Bush is
38 B4REAL : The big story that isn't told is that if Cuba goes through some sort of economic or democratic reform, there will be a BIG surprise when many exiles r
39 Santosdumont : Does anybody honestly think that the exiles will leave their comfortable existence in Miami to start from scratch in Cuba?
40 Signol : My point was, wishing someone dead is a bit harsh... surely wishing them out of power to be able to be able to do the same again is better? signol
41 Falcon84 : One of my friends at work left Cuba in 1960, and I asked him that question. He believes quite a few will. He thinks some of the younger ones will, be
42 Xpat : Not I, despite the pseudo-patriotism you hear for the "mother land" by many exilees.[Edited 2008-02-19 07:57:01]
43 Post contains links FXramper : doubtful
44 Falcon84 : First, put the whole quote in, where I said "I hope". Second, it won't happen under Mr. Bush, we can be sure of that. He's too lost in the past. I am
45 FriendlySkies : One Castro leaves, the next comes into power...Raul has been running the country for over a year now, so I don't see much change coming until he's gon
46 KFLLCFII : What are your thoughts on McCain normalizing relations, given his record of pressing for normalization of relations with Vietnam?
47 RJdxer : Correction, south Florida is, north Florida is an extension of Alabama and Georgia. Middle Florida is an extension of Yankeedom. They wouldn't be sta
48 Falcon84 : Can't see it. At least not in a first term. He'll stick to the old hard conservative line on Cuba-at least through his first term. If he would be ele
49 Post contains images Falcon84 : And what freaking good does it do, RJ, to keep the sanctions on? It serves no purpose, except to suck the political penis of the South Florida Cubans
50 Arrow : I truly hope this is the course taken by whoever ends up in the White House next year. That 45-year trade embargo, combined with the many almost-laug
51 Falcon84 : Agreed. The biggest mistake we made was putting the embargo on in the first place, IMHO. Had we just said "Fidel, you're a communist. God Bless you.
52 Santosdumont : This particular embargo exists simply because the Cuban-American vote in South Florida demands it and because the United States has the muscle to imp
53 RJdxer : What good does it do to keep prisoners in jail, oops forgot about those political prisoners in Cuba. Actually your wrong there. Most Cubans who have
54 Falcon84 : China has political prisoners. Where is the embargo? Saudi Arabia has them. Where is the embargo? Egypt has them. Where is the embargo? India has the
55 Santosdumont : Let's get some perspective here. No matter what he says, Chavez doesn't want anybody else but himself to "export" the travesty known as his Bolivaria
56 Arrow : Maybe a good start to a "thaw" in diplomatic relations would be for the US to announce -- on the day Fidel dies -- it will get out of Guantanamo and g
57 RJdxer : Have you heard me argue that there shouldn't be? For someone who cries about jobs being lost overseas, you certainly turn 180 degrees on this one. I
58 Airfoilsguy : None of those countries pointed nuclear missiles at the US
59 MaverickM11 : Has there been any proof that he *is* even alive? It all sounds a bit like Osama's taped threats that periodically come up but there's never been muc
60 Post contains images SBBRTech : Unless he died sometime in the last 10 days or so. Our beloved president has just visited Cuba and he and Castro spent two hours chatting and taking
61 RJdxer : Hey, they still get a check for the value of $2000 in gold coins every year. That they don't cash them is their own fault. Again, why should we? What
62 Post contains images LTU932 : HA! I lasted 12 years in office! Take that, you other wannabe presidents! Signed, Franklin Delano Roosevelt Nothing is going to change. Raúl will mo
63 Arrow : Because the Helms-Burton Act is an attempt by a US government to impose trade restrictions not just on Americans and US corporations, but on individu
64 MaverickM11 : Lula? Were there actual pictures that made it to the press?
65 Post contains links SBBRTech : Yeah, although they wouldn't let the press in. Check this link: http://noticias.uol.com.br/ultnot/album/080116lulafidel_album.jhtm
66 Santosdumont : In what way? That's an entirely subjective assessment that runs smack into the one-party system monolith. Maybe your average Joe Xinhua can actually
67 MaverickM11 : Hrmm I hadn't seen those. How long had it been before those photos that Castro was last seen?
68 F9Animal : I pray for a free Cuba. The Cuban people are wonderful, and deserve the change! I can't imagine the health of the country just from the US tourism alo
69 Slider : Ten bucks says Fidel outlives McCain. Exactly! Had we kept the ECONOMIC lines open, he'd be on the ash heap of history already. HAHA! Bad example.
70 LTBEWR : There are very strong issues I noted in my previous post (#30) that will make re-establishment of normalized trade and political policies difficult, b
71 Sprout5199 : the NOW infamous? Just ask anyone who has served in the US Navy on the east coast. GITMO has always been infamous. Damn six week REFTRA. We lease tha
72 MaverickM11 : I've always thought Castro would fall faster than a souffle had we just kept economic ties open. Cubans would learn real fast that Castro wasn't prov
73 Post contains images L410Turbolet : The real question why do you guys ally yourself with Pakistani dictatorship against Indian democracy? Wouldn't be so sure about China and your favori
74 Tsaord : Whatever happens to US Government should keep their nose out of it. If the people want it let them begin the process. Don't go over there trying to sp
75 RJdxer : You answer your own question. Economic freedom is the start of political freedom. If it is so outdated, why doesn't Cuba enjoy a robust trade with th
76 Santosdumont : Let's not be coy. The United States accommodates plenty of them. Which is something that may very well occur under Raul -- whether he likes it or not
77 Arrow : If the US imposed a trading ban on Canada (which sends more than 80% of its exports to the US), Canada's economy would crater overnight and we'd be a
78 Falcon84 : Neither did Cuba. They were put there by the Soviet Union. Cuba let them, true, but they didn't have much of a choice, as they wree basically there a
79 Slider : And it's really weird and twisted, if you think about it, that the wall has come down, USSR was sent to the trash can, but the embargo still stands!!
80 MIAMIx707 : That is not correct at all. The typical Cuban knew the US as "the good neighbor from the north". While Batista did give opponents a hard time it was
81 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : where did u get that CastroL?
82 LASOctoberB6 : Fun fact that I know no one cares about: One of my bus drivers' name is Castro. Pretty cool guy with a heavy accent. I don't understand, was Castro a
83 Toast : Well, hardly a surprise really. Adios Fidel, you loathsome dinosaur. When Fidel officially croaks, I think Cuban Communism will soon fall apart like a
84 Post contains links AndesSMF : It has been decades, so why haven't other countries stepped up to the plate? Or is it the typical politician 'lotta talk, little action' situation? B
85 Tugger : Just how popular is he with his people? Tug
86 Post contains images RJdxer : Yes, but this thread is about Cuba, and Castro resigning as President. We can discuss the merits of other countries in other threads. Yet somehow, ag
87 A380US : Yes now to the 60's
88 Falcon84 : So the only reason the righties on here like RJ want to keep the embargo in place is because, well, iit's been there so long, so why play around with
89 RJdxer : There's a lot more to it than that. As stated, who would benefit? The average Joe in Palm Tree Haven Cuba? I doubt it, unless he is in the tourist in
90 Falcon84 : The past is in the past. The 1960's ended 40 years ago. It's time to move forward, not look backward. But, again, you want to keep your Boogey Man al
91 Seb146 : Taxis will get more money and probably tips from Americans. The drivers can use the tips to buy things like food, medicine, or possibly radios or tel
92 RJdxer : Do you have any idea how big Cuba is? But this is the workers paradise. Besides that's not good socialism. What's wrong with demanding free and fair
93 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : Castro without a doubt is the most admired among the evil dictators of modern times. After all that has being said some still have doubts if he's evi
94 AndesSMF : I would assume that Cuba would NEED its expatriates back whenever their current regime ends, hopefully soon. No one in Cuba is really up to functioni
95 Csavel : hey Falcon84, it is just starting to have an effect. Give it another 40 years. Mustn't be impatient. These things take time.
96 AndesSMF : Why don't you read about the embargo in its totality before making such blanket statements? (Hey, Falcon! Your bias is showing!) Since you already ha
97 LTU932 : Didn't Bill Clinton have to sign the Helms-Burton Act in order for it to become law?
98 AR385 : I don't understand why people ignore history facts when it suits them. The Cuban Missile Crisis started in 1961, when the US put nuclear missiles in T
99 AndesSMF : Google 'Cuban Democracy Act' BTW, the removal of the Turkish missiles was not publicized till later, and the crisis appeared to signify a Soviet back
100 MIAMIx707 : First point is valid one but society will adapt. Chavez has been a godsend for Fidel. Besides the oil giveaways many professionals that can't find wo
101 MIAMIx707 : And to think Kennedy could've averted all this by backing the invasion. It would've been an easy victory, and not have led to what many saw as a defe
102 Santosdumont : That's the best you can do? "Yes, but...?" Your talk-radio reasoning is showing, Little Buddy. Clearly, you've never been to Cuba nor are even remote
103 Csavel : Actually thousands *were* fleeing Cuba, Batista wasn't in power as long as Castro, and the people who wanted to flee (the poorest) had little means t
104 RJdxer : Don't say that, it just makes them mad. Bill Clinton never did anything wrong and anybody who says so is just part of the vast right wing conspiracy.
105 Slider : Yeah, and maybe have started WW freaking III! Are you crazy? Cuba was a Soviet puppet; we invade, the gloves come off. It would have been a Pyrrhic v
106 Santosdumont : I'm not talking strictly about tourists. I'm talking about business executives (disguised as tourists, I don't really care) that can connect directly
107 RJdxer : As long as Cubans continue to risk life and limb to cross the Florida straights on virtually anything that floats, it proves that it does work by pro
108 Santosdumont : So in other words, you support the embargo because it encourages Cubans to try to make the trip? It's not a coincidence that they both tow the same l
109 AR385 : It is said that Raul is pretty ruthless. He was the commander of the Cuban armed forces, so there certainly is a military streak to him. I don't see t
110 Santosdumont : One element that could be a type of a wild card is Raul's rumored homosexuality (alluded to even by post-resignation revelers in Miami). I don't know
111 Arrow : I can think of one compelling reason to change the policy -- it has been an abysmal failure. The goal, presumably, was to bludgeon Castro into embrac
112 RJdxer : No, it is proof that the Cuban workers paradise is not all it's cracked up to be. But just ignore those people and continue to advocate rewarding the
113 Post contains links MIAMIx707 : Buddy Cuba was the Pearl of the Caribbean, you can exaggerate all you want. While I'm sure I'd hate the guy I'd take Batista any day, as most cubans
114 MIAMIx707 : Homesexuals in Cuba are A LOT more out of the closet than they were back in the 80s when I was there. I knew somebody who is now openly gay and I had
115 Post contains links AR385 : What exactly, is "all"? You are kidding right? Next time, use the google button. It's really not that hard. But in case you don't, here's the info. o
116 RJdxer : So according to your theory, if we lift the embargo the people of Cuba will somehow be set free to do as they please by the very government that repr
117 Santosdumont : No one's talking about rewarding the government, but about making direct business contacts with the tiny Cuban entrepreneurial class. I tell you what
118 RJdxer : Which rewards the Cuban government, or do you think they would remain silent about that not to mention try to channel which politically acceptable, r
119 Santosdumont : I don't think Rawlings would be. Who said the Cuban government has to know? Look up the Spanish word "resolver".
120 RJdxer : Oh well. I'm sure there are a lot of businesses that could make money there. Someday, perhaps after Raul kicks the bucket they may be able too. Until
121 Post contains images Scbriml : So where is the embargo for Venezuela? The company I work for wrote off $4.5b for being kicked out this year. Just like every elected government in t
122 767Lover : I fail to see why you are bringing partisan politics into it. In fact, US agricultural exports to Cuba were virtually nil when Clinton was in office
123 Post contains links and images Allstarflyer : One to go? How 'bout Chav down south? There's plenty more than just two or three. Of course Cuba would be much better off w/o the embargo. But the em
124 Canuckpaxguy : Cuba's a beautiful country and Havana is a gorgeous city. Reading some of the earlier threads, it seems people think Castro is hated by everyone --- a
125 Post contains links 767Lover : Based on what is presented here, I don't think it is possible or likely that a foreign investor could make direct business contacts with the tiny ent
126 Santosdumont : It would require stealth, for sure. I see you still haven't looked up the word "resolver" yet.
127 Csavel : I thought Puerto Rico is the Pearl of the Caribbean, doesn't it say so on the license plates? Life expectancy in Cuba 1955 - 59 years 2000 - 76 years
128 767Lover : Why can you assign at least some of the blame for Cubans' suffering on Fidel? You have a country with a very healthy tourist industry, plus valuable
129 MIAMIx707 : I don't typically google up stuff before posting. When I don't know something I simply don't post. I see he was a 'liberal intellectual' oh wow... We
130 AR385 : Let's see: "Coke-bottle glasses." "Stubborn know-it-alI from a.net." "Distorted view of reality." I see you still have not gotten the part about the i
131 Falcon84 : 1. Iraq is a far bigger blunder. More so than the Bay of Pigs ever was. 2. It didn't destablize the region. Castro had already started that process b
132 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : You've been reading wrong somehow. Puerto Rico is "La isla del encanto". The enchanted island. Cuba's literacy rate was higher than in many other pla
133 MIAMIx707 : oh well I don't agree, the masses will criticize that one more, sure but over the long run Iraq will be just fine, at least in 50 years. The Kennedy
134 Falcon84 : How can anyone say that minor event-and that's what it was-was a bigger disaster than Iraq? You're kidding. Both were things we shouldn't have done,
135 RJdxer : President Chavez was freely elected. He did not ride into town toting a side arm, setting up courts that issued summary executions. Yes, first with a
136 AR385 : About Raul being gay. I have never heard that before. In any case, at 76, wether he is gay or not, I don't think it matters anymore. Couldn't have sai
137 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : You're quite the detective Falcon... if I was in Cuba my chances of using the internet for 3000 posts would be imaginary. I'd be in prison or publica
138 Superfly : Umm, I went to Cuba with my girlfriend and didn't hire any hookers. Also, I didn't hang out with other tourist. I met locals, made friends and hung o
139 AndesSMF : Just to point it out, MOST Americans, willingly or not, would fit that profile in the opinion of the poor masses of LatAm. Batista, that man so hated
140 MD11Engineer : But do you really think that the disowned hacienderos will get their land back? After the Wall fell in Germany, many of the old aristocrat families, w
141 767Lover : Actually the President cannot repeal Helms-Burton, only Congress can, so I guess you would put that priority on Nancy Pelosi's plate. It's interestin
142 Csavel : Public health trends often take years, sometimes generations to manifest themselves statistically. Plus part of the problem for the US is certain lif
143 Arrow : That's the root of the hypocrisy in the US Cuba policy for the last 50 years, and it exposes what the real issue is. None of the other so-called desp
144 Post contains images RJdxer : Yep, they didn't say a bad word about him until he started doing that.
145 767Lover : Medicine shipments were embarged 15 years ago. I think that would be enough time to show up in current levels of health as they are portrayed to us.
146 Csavel : Depends, on things like infant mortality, possibly, but on other indicators, perhaps not. Plus, and I could be wrong, I am not sure that medicine shi
147 Post contains links 767Lover : There were assertions made that the sanctions strengthened by the US Congress by way of the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act did restrict the trade of medici
148 Superfly : I am talking about their arrogance compared to others in Miami. ...but I know more about it then some who has never been. That comment is false anyho
149 Santosdumont : As it turns out, Fidel may have an extra brain cell left. A recent edition of the Berliner Kurier newspaper reports that he personally invited Hans Mo
150 LTU932 : Correction: Hans Modrow (SED, later SED-PDS, PDS and now Linkspartei) was the last communist premier of East Germany. The last premier, and the only
151 Santosdumont : Opa, my bad. Thanks for the clarification!
152 RJdxer : Yes, his decaying health had nothing to do with it, and he was finally able to claim victory by saying the United States had been cowed into rescindi
153 Arrow : C'mon, you're smarter than that. The U.S. by law forbids its citizens from travelling to Cuba without specific authorization, and it prosecutes peopl
154 RJdxer : But the principle is the same and that is what I was driving at. The government of Brazil is making my decision for me by charging for a visa. Once y
155 Arrow : If you follow that to its logical conclusion, then once you leave the country you are no longer bound by U.S. law. Which means the law that prevents
156 Post contains images Santosdumont : Decaying health and retirement go hand in hand. Why do you think Muhammad Ali finally gave it up? That's life. Think of it in monetary terms. Castro
157 LTU932 : No problem, I thought it was actually the article which made that error. Let's not get carried away. Sure, what you say may be the most likely outcom
158 AndesSMF : (W/o attempting to offend anyone). There are two classes in LatAm society, the have's and have nots. Unlike most other immigrants, the vast majority
159 MD11Engineer : Or as Honecker himself forced his precedessor Ulbricht to retire in the 1960s. Jan
160 Post contains images Superfly : ...and again to repeat myself, spending 2 weeks in a given places gives a person more insight than one who has not. It certainly gives a person a bet
161 Santosdumont : That's a very intriguing proposition. My sense is that Fidel's cult of personality is historically a lot stronger than that of the old DDR leadership
162 RJdxer : But the rub is you have to re-enter the country at some time where, if you are stupid enough to let the Cubans stamp your passport, it will instantly
163 LTU932 : How could I forget. The typical story of the apprentice turning on his master, or rather, the protegé does not need his mentor anymore. That is very
164 Post contains images PPVRA :
165 Santosdumont : Indeed. His wife is said to have a penchant for big-ticket European fashions and accessories while his one of his grandkids was humiliated because hi
166 RJdxer : No, because the leaders of the Soviet Union, as Fidel, were not freely and fairly elected. The people had no real voice in government. If enough peop
167 Post contains images Santosdumont : Forgot to add this cartoon from today's Folha de São Paulo newspaper: Raul asks: "Fidel, what will your life be like not ruling with an iron fist?" F
168 MIAMIx707 : The more he refers to the exile Cuban community as "mobsters" the more ignorant he sounds
169 MIAMIx707 : ^^ LOL at the two cartoons. There's like a million Castro jokes, and they're all hilarious, there's many of Raul too (most centered about his rumoured
170 MIAMIx707 : What Lula actually said while wearing the construction hardhat was: Fidel is a living myth! He's responsible for all this He's prob. just very excited
171 Post contains links LTU932 : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080224/...;_ylt=AhTvVXslLyblXuXihl.nrMpbbBAF HAVANA - Cuba's parliament named Raul Castro president on Sunday, ending nea
172 Santosdumont : Lula has a serious problem when it comes to making intelligent statements on Cuba. He's scared as hell to say something that Fidel might take the wro
173 Post contains images JM017 : Yah, that makes him a unique 20th century leader? He has done a lot of good to his country. That US embargo has hurt Cuba more than Castro's actions.
174 MIAMIx707 : Thanks Santosdumont for elaborating further. Honestly I'd much rather see Raul dealing with Lula. He's not as crazy as Fidel or Chavez. Was the move t
175 JM017 : My point is that the problem was he refused to kiss American ass. And the regime he overthrew was quite brutal and repressive too. But Batista saw to
176 MIAMIx707 : Well you know Cuba only has 11 million people. Have no doubts Fidel would've killed 70 million or whatever number he neeeded to eliminate. Therefore
177 JM017 : Look...even if we had a per capita comparison, Fidel would be nowhere as bad as Mao was. For that matter per capita Mao wasn't the worst. That, I thi
178 Post contains links and images MIAMIx707 : Thanks JM for coming to the conclusion Fidel is not as bad as the others. Still the most despicable assasin in lat. american history responsible for t
179 JM017 : If you are going to quote me, kindly include the entire quote: And feel free to attack the entire quote. I stand by the quote. Frankly, if there were
180 Nitrohelper : Is there a list of all the good things he has done? I haven't followed Cuba's successes over the last 50 years ,and would like to read about them. Wi
181 Post contains links Arrow : When the biggest most powerful country in the world, with the biggest most open free market in the word, puts you on a black list it is very difficul
182 ME AVN FAN : the main problem simply is the communist economy it was practically impossible to make investments from outside, and still is difficult Cubana buys n
183 JM017 : Glad you posted this link. There were a couple of things I wanted to comment on, but I was afraid I would be flamed for hitting below the belt. But t
184 Nitrohelper : That's my point for all the folks that state how wonderful it would be in Cuba if there was no embargo. That's my point , many things have to change
185 MD11Engineer : But exactly this is not going to happen. First, it would mean the return of the old pro-Batista upper class. Secondly, there have been people living
186 ME AVN FAN : - While things on Cuba would be MUCH easier without that embargo No, for three major reasons : A) It would mean giving up communism quite totally B)
187 AndesSMF : So, instead of having the communist upper class, you'd have the Batista upper class (with their repository of business knowledge and connections). Hm
188 ME AVN FAN : connections ? Richard Milhous Nixon (lawyer for casinos on Cuba for a while) and his Watergate buddies come to mind. Not really what a modern Cuba mi
189 AndesSMF : Sort of like what happened in Russia?
190 ME AVN FAN : Or in China. There of course WILL BE profiteers, whatever turn things take.
191 Arrow : The bottom line here is that 45+ years of embargo and isolation achieved absolutely nothing, other than contributing to (not causing) the impoverishme
192 AndesSMF : Maybe its just me, but I much rather have a capitalistic profiteer than a 'reformed' communist profiteer.
193 ME AVN FAN : The problem with the Batista'ists was/is that they were not just "capitalist". And what I in case of Cuba hope for is a gradual step-by-step transfor
194 AndesSMF : The people who left weren't just those with relations with the mob. Funny thing is, the more I read about Batista, the more he reminds me of Chavez.
195 ME AVN FAN : - which is not exactly making him sympathetic, except for people with an admiration for Caudillos and Generalissimos !
196 AndesSMF : Of course! But I cannot help but imagine that some of those now complain about him would have defended him in his time.
197 ME AVN FAN : - Sure. Why not. Also Francisco Franco had his admirers. Many people were fascinated by Benito Mussolini.
198 MIAMIx707 : lol this thread is stil going on... That article is supposed to be fair but it isn't. It says most cubans who left the regime then were Batista suppor
199 ME AVN FAN : An important question. As far as I got it, it in fact was Raul who made Cuba (including his brother) communist, so it would be amazing to see the sam
200 LTBEWR : I think one other reason for continuing the embargo and not realistically dealing with Cuba is that no President or other leading politician in the US
201 MIAMIx707 : He runs his own private enterprises earning in foreign currency (what socialism?) and has been the one doing so for years, Fidel is just the "talking
202 Post contains images JM017 : It just will not die..... . Well, I really hope Raul opens Cuba up and truly enacts some reforms. That seems to be the only way things will improve t
203 MIAMIx707 : I just saw on the news some activists handing out flyers with the human rights declaration to passerby were beaten and others thrown in jail. Pleasan
204 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Well, activists handing out such flyers in a "no-longer-so-heavily-communist" communist dictatorship are either couragious or foolhardy !
205 JM017 : I'm sorry to hear that.
206 ME AVN FAN : - Indeed. But would you such things in a dictatorship ? As a dictatorship it still IS beyond any doubt.
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