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Al Fayed Has His Day In Court  
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

I am surprised nobody else has posted this. I am not suggesting we discuss his accusations but rather that they can be made at all in public.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7250241.stm

"Al Fayed gets his 'moment' in court
By Caroline McClatchey "

We will leave aside the first para which stretches definitions by stating "Mohamed Al Fayed has been giving evidence at London's Royal Courts of Justice"

"The princess's former butler, Paul Burrell, and her sister Lady Sarah McCorquodale were also part of the cover-up, according to Mr Al Fayed.

And, as he had maintained for years, Prince Philip and Prince Charles were in charge.

His conspiracy theories are well known, but never before has Mr Al Fayed had such an opportunity to air them at such great length, and never before have they been pulled apart by top lawyers.

At the start, Mr Burnett, counsel for the coroner, called him "a great buccaneering businessman", but during cross-examination Mr Al Fayed's often incoherent and at times amusing ramblings raised chuckles from the public gallery and quips from the legal team.

At one point, Lord Justice Scott Baker remarked: "A lot of people were involved in the plot, yes?" "

....

"He remained resolute throughout, saying he didn't mind being ridiculed or being told he was hallucinating.

But when asked to provide some evidence of his accusations, he threw his hands up and said: "How can you want me to get proof?" "

....
"While Mr Burnett was gently mocking, Richard Horwell QC, representing the Metropolitan Police, was definitely more bullish.

He accused Mr Al Fayed of not listening to any of the evidence, and telling him: "All you are interested in is your assumptions, not evidence."

In response, Mr Al Fayed grew angry, demanding to know why he had to answer such "silly questions".

As the list of the co-conspirators expanded to include then-prime minister Tony Blair, the French ambulance service, and the British Ambassador in Paris, the laughs from the public gallery grew longer and louder. "

.....

"Asked by the BBC's royal correspondent Peter Hunt whether he was lying, the Harrods owner shot back: "You work for MI6, you idiot.""

What should be the reaction of a legal system when confronted by a person such as Mr Al Fayed? For some of those accused of a range of crimes ranging up to murder, what redress is there for material produced in a court such as this?

Have there been any other examples of the tinfoil hat brigade getting such publicity for their ideas, well I might be doing the concept of an "idea" in injustice there.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlashFlyGuy From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2080 times:

All I will say is -- I've always thought MI6 took out the wrong Al Fayed !!!  Wink

User currently offlineIH8BY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

This made my day really (until I thought of the cost of the inquiry!). Some classic lines from al Fayed. Has anyone bought a Daily Express (if so, shame on you)? How did they cover it?


Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27170 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

It was extremely amusing. The guy is fit for the funny farm !!! I like the bit about Charles being able to marry his Crocodile wife . It gave me a good laugh. Then as he came out of the court he had a go at the Sky News presenter calling him an accomplice ... Its a real circus .

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26626 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2029 times:



Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):


What should be the reaction of a legal system when confronted by a person such as Mr Al Fayed? For some of those accused of a range of crimes ranging up to murder, what redress is there for material produced in a court such as this?

At this point, I think Chairman Mo is so far gone mentally over his son's death, I don't know if you could make a case for intentional defamation anyway.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

He's always been a nasty piece of work, just now he says it loud (at our expense).

As well he might, given the state of his employee who was driving.

His last attempt to worm his way into the establishment ended in diaster, even killing his own Son.
But his grief for his son is not extended to others who lost loved ones.

The real scandal? Going back to the 1980's, how such a throughly disreputable person got to run Harrods. Or any other major business here.
Then again, they allowed the same o


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1987 times:



Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
What should be the reaction of a legal system when confronted by a person such as Mr Al Fayed? For some of those accused of a range of crimes ranging up to murder, what redress is there for material produced in a court such as this?

The legal system has reacted perfectly, by allowing Fayed to give full reign to his theories in public, in a judicial setting. The demands of an evidence based system are absolutely ideal for crushing flights of fantasy like this.

As for redress, court proceedings are protected from the laws of slander. He can say absolutely anything he wants within the court environment, either a coroner's court or a criminal court. And for good reason too, a court must have absolute freedom of speech with none of the restrictions that apply to normal, outside life.

Of course, the journalist accused of being in MI6 (you'd have thought after all this time berating them for murder he might at least get their name right) was spoken to outside the court. He would be perfectly free to sue for slander if he felt his professional reputation had been besmirched.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1929 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 5):
The real scandal? Going back to the 1980's, how such a thoroughly disreputable person got to run Harrods. Or any other major business here.

Now you have had a couple of decades to appreciate his efforts, what is the common view of this. Especially the likely correlation between those he was accusing of all and sundry crimes and those with sufficient money and insufficient sense to shop at Harrods in the first place.

Quoting Banco (Reply 6):
Of course, the journalist accused of being in MI6 (you'd have thought after all this time berating them for murder he might at least get their name right) was spoken to outside the court. He would be perfectly free to sue for slander if he felt his professional reputation had been besmirched.

He has foamed on about various bits of this for years without privilege, but the presentation in the court was a concentrated version.

In Aus, one of the pollies would do for him - such events are known as retirement trials here (I think there is a more catchy term) but the basic rule is never defame a pollie in what might be their last term of office. But your libel and slander laws are a bit more tricky, esp courtesy of the likes of G Robbo. Big grin

MI6 rises in estimation at their uncanny ability to be able to persuade back seat pax not to put on their seat belts. Clever guy Carruthers!


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Update
Former MI6 chief has HIS day in court.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7254914.stm

Apparently other MI6 staff will appear but "they will be identified only by letters or numbers, and will give evidence out of view of the public and media."


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6821 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1901 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 8):
numbers

To fulfill MAH's fantasies should 007 turn up?



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1881 times:

It's pretty appalling that all this public money and time is lavished on a nasty little man, who it seems lies about virtually everything, is particularly nasty about people he knows cannot answer back.

The only ones who take him seriously, but I bet his performance in court has reduced the numbers who do, are those who made such a show of themselves after Diana's death.
Which deep down was guilt, they brought the mags, the papers, watched the programmes, that fed the paparazzi.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1858 times:

Remarkably - so remarkably it's worthy of comment, the Daily Mail if all things has a columnist with a perceptive and accurate reading of the last few days events...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...8&in_page_id=1772&in_author_id=244



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12673 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1843 times:
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If it wasn't such a waste of public money, the whole thing would be hilarious!

The man is a deluded Brit-wannabe. All he's ever wanted is to have a British passport, because he feels it endows some magical power on its possessor, all the time failing to realise that even with a passport, he would never be accepted as part of "the establishment" since he's just a nasty niece of work. That successive Governments have denied him the one thing his wealth cannot buy, has only served to stoke the fires of his bitterness.

When his son became friends with Diana, and an alleged marriage is being talked about, that passport seemed so close, he can almost taste it. Of course, the only way he could be denied is by his son and Diana being killed by the Government in collusion with the Royal Family!  banghead 

So, we are subjected (at great cost) to the insane ramblings of a certifiable loony who has not the slightest shed of evidence to back up any of his preposterous fantasies. But, he got the thing that was only 2nd on his list after a passport - his day in court where he can reel off all the bile that's built up over the years.

Once this sordid affair is finally laid to rest, I would hope the British Government would have the balls to declare him persona non grata and kick his sorry ass out of the country.

I think I need to lay down now.  wink 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1837 times:



Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
And, as he had maintained for years, Prince Philip and Prince Charles were in charge.

Just waiting for Fayed to come out with "my son was impregnating your ex and he'd have had Camilla, too, if she didn't look like a camel".

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
I like the bit about Charles being able to marry his Crocodile wife .

 rotfl  I like the references to Mr. Ed, myself, from Roe and Garry, an old Chicago radio show.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 12):
I think I need to lay down now.

You might not be alone. I think they'll be carrying Fayed out on a stretcher at his pace.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1823 times:



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 9):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 8):
numbers

To fulfill MAH's fantasies should 007 turn up?

Interesting thought. Would the franchise permit such an appearance you have to ask? I am sure by now they hold the copyright, trademark or whatever.

Quoting Banco (Reply 11):
Remarkably - so remarkably it's worthy of comment, the Daily Mail if all things has a columnist with a perceptive and accurate reading of the last few days events...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...d=244

Interesting article. The last bit is worth a quote
"I am afraid I still think what I thought in the week after Diana's death - that if any one living individual bears a responsibility for her death it is Mr Al Fayed, in whose care she was supposed to be.

He should have ensured that she was not driven at breakneck speeds across Paris by a drunk.

His failure of care, though, is far less serious than the appalling allegations of murder which he has made against so many people. "

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 12):
Once this sordid affair is finally laid to rest, I would hope the British Government would have the balls to declare him persona non grata and kick his sorry ass out of the country.

He could go and join OBL perhaps?


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12673 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 1801 times:
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Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
He could go and join OBL perhaps?

Yes, and he can take a Harrods hamper with him. They'll enjoy that in the cave.  smile 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

I've held the view for some years that Fayed is operating on the principle that 'the best defence is offence' - that the more wild accusations he throws out, the less attention will be paid to evidence of his OWN role in approving the change from the professional limousine driver to the drunken Henri Paul:-

"Mohamed Fayed personally approved the doomed plan for Diana, Princess of Wales to be chauffeured by Henri Paul, the inquest into her death has been told.

"Kes Wingfield, one of two bodyguards who was providing security for the Princess and her boyfriend Dodi Fayed said he had strongly objected to the plan to whisk the couple away from the Ritz Hotel in Paris by a rear exit.

"But he claimed he was overruled by Dodi, the son of Harrods owner Mr Fayed, who said: “It’s been okayed by my father.”

"Mr Wingfield said that if he and his colleague Trevor Rees had been allowed to “do our jobs properly” the Princess would still be alive today.

"Mr Fayed claims the Princess and his son were murdered by MI6 on the orders of the Duke of Edinburgh to prevent them marrying, but his critics have suggested his conspiracy theories are designed to deflect attention from the Fayed family’s role in the events leading up to the car crash in which they died."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...xml=/news/2008/01/29/ndiana129.xml

A point that is often overlooked is that Fayed, besides being the owner of the Hotel, was ALSO the owner of the car hire firm that provided the car. So one can presume that he, and ONLY he, could have authorised the proper chauffeur being stood down and the amateur Henri Paul being allowed to drive instead.

One can speculate on his motive in doing so. My own feeling was that, far from being an attempt to avoid the paparazzi, it was a deliberate stratagem to create a news-worthy 'event.' 'Dramatic High-Speed Chase Through Darkened Paris Streets' would have made a far better headline the next day than 'Couple Spend Quiet Evening In Hotel.'

But the first requirement for staging such a scenario was a change of driver; no professional chauffeur could have been persuaded to drive the way Henri Paul did.

I hope that he continues his 'evidence' tomorrow and faces cross-questioning on those points. He's so un-balanced and garrulous that he just MIGHT blow the gaff........



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineN229NW From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1963 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

"Insane in the brain!
Insane in the membrane
Insane in the brain!"


About sums it up...



It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

I think NAV20 has nailed a good part of Al-Fayed's motives.

Such a massive plot he says, which could have been foiled if Diana, Dodi, Paul had worn their seat-belts .

One man did, the security guard, he suffered terrible injuries, but he's still here.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6875 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1760 times:



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 16):
"Mr Fayed claims the Princess and his son were murdered by MI6 on the orders of the Duke of Edinburgh to prevent them marrying,

As a colonist on this side of the pond, can someone tell me why this isn't a plausible notion?

Diana and Charles divorced. She *potentially* gets knocked up. Heir to the empire is part Muslim. Royal family has him taken out.

Possible? It not, why not?


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1412 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1743 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
Heir to the empire is part Muslim

First there is no empire, and second , any off spring of Diana , once she was divorced, would have had no claim to the throne. Her off spring only had a claim to the throne because of their father Charles

littlevc10


User currently offlineKLMA330 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1696 times:

Even if Charles and Phillip were behind this whole thing (I know Im' going to get flamed for saying this) Diana kinda had it coming. She f'd with the wrong family!

 Smile


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1678 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
As a colonist on this side of the pond, can someone tell me why this isn't a plausible notion?

Diana and Charles divorced. She *potentially* gets knocked up. Heir to the empire is part Muslim. Royal family has him taken out.

Possible? It not, why not?

For one thing, had there been any progeny of a relationship it would have absolutely bugger all claim on the throne. No more than I would in fact.

For another, you're saying that it's perfectly possible the Duke would be a murderer, then you're saying he has control over SIS! Utterly preposterous. You might as well say Arnold Schwarzenegger can order the CIA to take out someone. Same thing applies - no evidence whatsoever for it, but hey, that's supposedly part of the cover up!  Wink



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9525 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

For me, the funniest part of the "conspiracy" is that, under the leadership of Charles and Philip, MI6 apparently deployed their most potent weapon to execute the plot... a clapped out Fiat Uno.  rotfl 

User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

If you are unlucky enough to encounter anyone who believes this shit, (for identification, they are likely have a magazine like 'Hello' or 'Heat'), just ask, 'well if they wanted her dead, why not stick a bomb under the car then blame whatever terrorist group takes your fancy'.
(Then be prepared for a blank look).

Hang on, if there are such massive plots out there, with all these many and varied people involved, how come Al Fayed is allowed to spout all this stuff that he's uncovered in public?


25 Post contains images Baroque : Oh hell, does this mean we need to make sure he does not let himself be driven by another drunken loon without his seat belt fixed?
26 Post contains images David L : The rules are simple: if someone rants so openly about a conspiracy then it must be true. If no-one mentions anything then a conspiracy must have bee
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