SBBRTech From Brazil, joined Jul 2007, 722 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3457 times:
This is about that old dispute between Macedonia and Greece and what name the former Yugo-country will use.
This made a lot of noise in the region during the 90s and I almost found it to be ridiculous but my Greek friends would never let me think less of it. Now it seems that the UN is trying once again to set a final solution (how long can "final" solutions last in the Balkans anyway?) after the Greek threat of voting against Macedonia's NATO membership next April.
Here are the proposed names to substitute the actual "Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia":
1) Constitutional Republic of Macedonia
2) Democratic Republic of Macedonia
3) Independent Republic of Macedonia
4) New Republic of Macedonia
5) Republic of the Upper Macedonia
I say name 2 or 3 are more likely to be chosen, which would you pick?
"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
Signol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 2953 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3446 times:
Why can't they both just be Macedonia? After all, there's a province of Belgium called "Luxemburg" that borders the country of "Luxemburg"?
Or why not rename Greece "Southern Macedonia"?
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3383 times:
EL-AL From Israel, joined Oct 2001, 1132 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
What about just Macedonia?
So there is a district in Greece called the same and the name is originally Greek, so what? Where is a damage to have a country with the same name? I do not think that many Israelis even know that there is in area in northern Greece called Macedonia, when we refer the country we just say Macedonia (Makadonia in Hebrew) and all maps say just "Macedonia" also.
With all my respect to the Greek culture and history, I think it's time for Greek politicians to grew up and to allow their northern neighbor to have a normal name.
"In our country, those who do not believe in miracles are irrational" - David Ben Gurion.
JoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2157 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3290 times:
I honestly sympathize with both sides... national pride at stake in both countries, BUT, why not have the following.
Let the Greek Macedonia stay and be written as Macedonia, while the ex-Yugoslav Macedonians can write their state as Makedonia - Republic of Makedonia. That is how you pronounce it in Macedonian anyway.
My only problem with that would be the penchant for countries that are wholly undemocratic to name themselves that. North Korea and the former East Germany (Deutsche Demokratische Republik). Granted, I claim ignorance on the current state of politics and democracy in the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia".
LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
AC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 510 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3226 times:
Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 7): I think Greeks need to focus on more important things that will help their country
and stop splitting hairs and waisting time on names.
sheesh... priorities anyone?
Thanks. We'll take your advice under consideration.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13875 posts, RR: 27 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3187 times:
Quoting JoKeR (Reply 5): Let the Greek Macedonia stay and be written as Macedonia, while the ex-Yugoslav Macedonians can write their state as Makedonia - Republic of Makedonia.
-
whatever, Makedonia and Macedonia are the same, and to give an example, in German it anyway is Mazedonien and in French Macedoine. The trouble simply is that the Greeks canNOT accept that Macedonia in 1912 was divided between Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece.
-
Here the area in 1881
-
Toast From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3157 times:
Since my previous posts evidently violated the unwritten rule #22, "Under no circumstances shall you use humor; smilies that indicate jokes or friendly banter shall entail immediate deletion of your post", I'll re-state my opinion in the most serious way possible. Believe me, any trace of humor in the following passage is purely coincidental.
Quoting Signol (Reply 1): After all, there's a province of Belgium called "Luxemburg" that borders the country of "Luxemburg"?
Correct. Furthermore, both Belgium and the Netherlands have provinces called Limburg. Nobody cares.
Quoting EL-AL (Reply 4): With all my respect to the Greek culture and history, I think it's time for Greek politicians to grew up and to allow their northern neighbor to have a normal name.
My sentiments exactly. I have the utmost respect for Ionic columns, Vestal Virgins, Socrates and feta cheese, but the attitude of the current Greek government smacks ever so slightly of βλακεια and immaturity combined with a bizarre obsession with ancient history. I would most respectfully suggest that the senescent Peripatetics who gave birth to this Megaran komoedia review their intake of ouzo and Delphic fumes and find themselves a more appropriate occupation.
Connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3894 posts, RR: 13 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3144 times:
Quoting Signol (Reply 1): Why can't they both just be Macedonia? After all, there's a province of Belgium called "Luxemburg" that borders the country of "Luxemburg"?
Or why not rename Greece "Southern Macedonia"? duck
signol
I'm with Signol. Just calling it simply "Macedonia" is fine with me. Now, if they REALLY want to irritate the Greeks, they could call themselves "North Greece".
IFlyTWA From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 267 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3130 times:
I believe the name should remain Republic of Macedonia and that only the people of Macedonia should decide if they want the name changed.
"To express the excitement of travel" - Eero Saarinen
Doug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3167 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3099 times:
Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1774 posts, RR: 25 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3095 times:
Quoting LH423 (Reply 8): My only problem with that would be the penchant for countries that are wholly undemocratic to name themselves that. North Korea and the former East Germany (Deutsche Demokratische Republik). Granted, I claim ignorance on the current state of politics and democracy in the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia".
That's exactly what I thought.
I think the Independent Republic of Macedonia sounds the best. They use the Cyrillic alphabet, no? Anyone know how that would look in Macedonian?
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1952 posts, RR: 26 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3093 times:
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 16): I think the Independent Republic of Macedonia sounds the best. They use the Cyrillic alphabet, no? Anyone know how that would look in Macedonian?
See the official government website here: http://www.vlada.mk/index.html
The name "Vlada na Republika Makedonija" translates to Government of the Republic of Macedonia
Macedonia spells its name Makedonija.
Greece spells its province Makedonia.
Oddly enough, the folks in the Republic of Macedonia refer to the Greek Macedonian province as "Aegean Macedonia"
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25127 posts, RR: 60 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3068 times:
Quoting Toast (Reply 12): Since my previous posts evidently violated the unwritten rule #22, "Under no circumstances shall you use humor; smilies that indicate jokes
Err your posts were deleted because they were racist and offensive and quite a few thought so including me !!! You were disrespectful and you know it !!!
For a full run down of both sides view for once Wikipedia has it about right and balanced:::
The name issue is nearly sorted anyway and final negotiations are taking place . The actual name doesnt really bother me as I believe the majority will just call it Macedonia. Its what is written on paper and treaties to un mistakably define the Greek province of Macedonia and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia ( Republic of Macedonia) that is more of a concern. There has to be concrete treaties to 100% define their borders with no other territorial claims to either parts of Bulgaria or Greece. Once that is in place then there will not be an issue.
What people are afraid of is seeing maps like this by extremist groups :::
My cousin recently took part in an exchange program between Universites in Skopje and Athens and it was very successful. Both sides could air their views and to be honest there was not much arguement. Greece has huge investment in the country and on the whole the two countries share good relations and trade. I myself have friends from Skopje and Ohrid who study in Athens. So in time the both parties will come to an agreement that will suit them both. I think option 3 ''Independant Republic of Macedonia'' is the most likely and as I stated above it will be on paper and treaties only anyway.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
IFlyTWA From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 267 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3042 times:
That looks like a Bulgarian extremist map not a Macedonian one.
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 18): Anyone who can write the Independent Republic of Macedonia in Macedonian Cyrillic for us?
Самостојна Република Македонија
Article 8 from the Nimitz proposal stipulates that:
Neither country may have exclusivity over the name or word "Macedonia" and "Macedonian"
This means that we cannot have the "Macedonian language," "Macedonian culture," "Macedonian history," "Macedonian people," "ethnic Macedonian."
It would mean that we would always be:
"The language of the [agreed prefix here] Republic of Macedonia"
"The citizens of the [agreed prefix here] Republic of Macedonia"
"The culture of the [agreed prefix here] Republic of Macedonia"
and so on.
I believe this proposal attempts to eradicate the Macedonian ethnic identity.
[Edited 2008-02-23 02:48:19]
"To express the excitement of travel" - Eero Saarinen
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25127 posts, RR: 60 Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3033 times:
Quoting IFlyTWA (Reply 20): I believe this proposal attempts to eradicate the Macedonian ethnic identity.
Not at all , the Greeks would have to play by the same rules.
"The language (dialect) of the Greek Province of Macedonia"
"The citizens of the Greek Province of Macedonia"
"The culture of the Greek Province of Macedonia"
and so on.
Sharing the name is the fairest way. No one has a right to solely claim ''Macedonia''.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3029 times:
If Greece wants Macedonia to be called FYROM, then Greece should call itself FTROG: the Former Turkish Republic of Greece. After all, Greece historically included part of what is now Turkey, so calling the country Greece can be construed as a claim on that land.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25127 posts, RR: 60 Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3024 times:
Quoting Analog (Reply 22): If Greece wants Macedonia to be called FYROM,
If you read above ''FYROM'' does not appear in the list so it will probably be option 3 ''FYROM'' was only an interim name until the dispute got settled. Realistically it was never going to remain that .
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
Quoting OA260 (Reply 19): ''Independant Republic of Macedonia''
Sure, but such things are for lawyers, scientists and politicians. People will speak about Macedonia and mean that formerly Yugoslav territory. Few people in normal life speak about the "Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft" / "Confederation Suisse" / "Confederazione Svizzera" / "Swiss Confederation" but rather about Schweiz/Suisse/Svizzera/Switzerland. And while the "Bundesrepublik" got enlarged by reunification, the term is far less in use than in the past in favour of simply "Germany" .
25 ME AVN FAN: - As I said above, it never was the official name of that country. It was used as a kind of technical "nickname" in international organisations to ci
26 OA260: Yep your 100% correct. Leave it to the lawyers thats what we pay them for !!!
27 Csavel: How is that more offensive to Greek sensibilities than the other choices? And as a zillioin people on A-net have pointed out, people are going to cal
28 Pellegrine: Formal names hardly matter. It comes down to colloquialisms and what we discuss over vodka tonics . I'm partial to the Independent Constitutional Demo
29 Bwest: And we also share Brabant with Holland. And the term Flanders is used in France (Frans-Vlaanderen), and Holland (Zeeuws-Vlaanderen), as historically
30 OA260: Very sensible remark certainly adds alot to the thread But if you really want to learn something here are a few websites for you to educate yourself
31 AlexEU: or why not the republic of Serbs, Albanians and Bulgarians ?
32 OA260: Serboalbinobulgaroturkoromanovlachsothers Macedonia LOL.......Its starting to look like Welsh !!!
33 AlexEU: or the Skopje should be renamed Thessaloniki
34 OA260: HAHA it might as well be . The last times I flew from SKG it was mostly FYROMS / Skopians / Macedonians on my flight LOL.....
35 MD11Engineer: we also have a Limburg in Germany, Limburg an der Lahn. Jan
36 EL-AL: This is a good example of the way which many Americans look at the world, every place which is not in the USA looks for you americans as not interest
37 OA260: I think the Israelis have more to worry about . When Palestine gets Independence and Jerusalem is their capital.
38 EL-AL: I think that names is the lest important problem in the Israel-Palestinian conflict. By the way, the Muslims do not call the Israeli capitol Jerusale
39 IFlyTWA: The last four posts from you and AlexEU are really sensible. Not. What's a FYROMS or Skopian? Sounds like racist derogatory remarks to me. Of course
40 IFlyTWA: I would highly recommend visiting Macedonia. There are many interesting places to visit!
41 Csavel: Frankly this is a good example of how non-Americans stereotype *ALL* Americans is ignorant gun totin' boobs because of one offhand comment that was p
42 OA260: Funny because my Macedonian mates think its funny and have many funny names for Greeks also !!! So I think they should know if its ''racist'' or not.
43 Bwest: My most humble apologies... I shall remember to use absolutely no humour at all anymore. Please note that this was just a small humorously intended r
44 EL-AL: I did not do that. I wrote: Not all americans, not 90% of americans, but "many Americans". you are saying yourself so we wrote the exact same thing.
45 OA260: Ok I apologise also. I didn't get the humour !! Maybe if you had have put an icon I would have taken it differently. I also keep hearing on these boa
47 Scbriml: I don't read it to mean that at all. It simply means both countries have the right to use the words "Macedonia" and "Macedonian".
48 Bwest: Ollander... But I'll try to change my bad habits
49 IFlyTWA: Can you please show me a picture of the page in the book where it says that? I could be true but I would like to see proof. I don't trust anything co
50 IFlyTWA: That's the way I believe it should be. No extremism and no propaganda. The name Macedonia belongs to the world and Macedonia and Greece should move o
51 OA260: No I dont read Macedonian so wouldn't know where to find it . But the professionals have read and translated it and a formal complaint was made . Cop
52 EL-AL: In Hebrew "Holland" is the official name of the Netherlands, and the Dutch language is called "holandit"
53 SBBRTech: It is indeed. It makes reference to the "San Stefano Bulgaria", or what the borders of the country were before the 1919 Treaty of Versailles when par
54 AlexEU: That's a map of Greek peripheries not prefectures. I hope to find a Greek map of peripheries and/or prefectures (road map) so that I can writte a lis
55 Analog: No it hasn't. What's considered Greece has changed in the past, and the maps of Prefectures and Peripheries have changed to reflect that. No Prefectu
56 OA260: " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...reece That was in reply to what was contained in Greek school books just prior to 1992 when it
57 PA110: Funny you should say that. As a matter of fact, there are several cases filed at the European Court on Human Rights by ethnic Macedonians who resiste
58 OA260: Yes I am aware of various cases that have been brought . If they are legitimate then its upto the EU to rule on them . If they rule in their favor th
59 PA110: Just FYI... My "other half" is Macedonian. He and his family vacation in Greece almost every summer. Despite cordial relations with almost all locals,
60 OA260: Well Bulgaria to Greece is EU to EU so border crossings have been scaled down for a while now. When there is such a highly charged dispute going on y
61 AlexEU: Have you? I would love to cross that border. Probably similar as Israel-Palestine. What I tried to say, is that Macedonia is Greek periphery, not pre
62 OA260: I was at the time on the Turkish side and asked if I could cross . The Turkish guards said that they would not have a problem but if I got to the oth
63 CY319: As a Greek with respect to my country's rich culture and history i may pick one of the following:
64 OA260: Are there any women in the FYROM parliament ?? We could send Martakis to make love not war and win them over LOL....
65 Analog: Wouldn't it be better if Greece corrected the situation itself, rather than forcing people to go to an EU court to be able to see their families? Are
66 OA260: So they delayed it just for kicks??? PROOF PLEASE?????
67 Analog: The word of a Macedonian friend of mine. I have no reason to assume that he was lying.
68 PA110: Sadly, this is still the case, which probably violates EU law if not at least the principles behind the Schengen treaty. My other half wanted to stop
69 OA260: Doesnt prove it!! All these EU law violation issues!!! Im suprised Greece hasnt been kicked out of the EU ....
70 AlexEU: Very interesting ! I think that today, that border could be crossed without problems. In my hearth it will always be Macedonia ! Democratic republic
71 OA260: Yes today its easy to cross , I was there on the Turkish side when you couldn't. I was on the Greek side 18 months ago when you could cross but I was
72 ME AVN FAN: His father, King Philipp II, simply was King of Macedonia, and about Alexander, the following can be read : - Alexandros III Philippou Makedonon (Ale
73 EL-AL: East Jerusalem is inseparable part of Israel. Immediately after the six days war the Israeli government decided too add East Jerusalem (the the holy
74 ME AVN FAN: - East Jerusalem in general (except some areas including the access to the Wailing Wall) and the Haram al-Sharif in particular will be the Capital of
75 Andrej: Hey all, quick question, what's wrong with the current one? Greek government should focus on fixing up its internal problems. Let the people of Republ
76 OA260: If its not sorted out now it may become a major problem in the future !!! After all its the Balkans !!! This issue needs to be sorted out once and fo
77 Andrej: Yes I understand that....but my point is, who is making all the fuss about the name? Macedonians? Greeks? In my humble (maybe useless) opinion Macedo
78 OA260: You kind of answered your own question LOL.... Sort the problem out now and maybe it will avoid any claims of extra territory in years to come !!!
79 Analog: I have no reason to lie. My friend had no reason to lie to me; he had nothing against Greeks (some of our mutual friends are Greek), but he did have
80 OA260: A shame no one outside of the UK and Ireland can get BBC 4 !!! There was an excellent program tonight called '''Titos Ghosts'' it went right back to W
81 ME AVN FAN: translated into normal language it is Croatia/Bosnia/Serbia/Macedonia
82 OA260: No its still FYROM on EU papers and I live in the EU so until it changes its FYROM !!!
83 Lewis: Our problems with FYROM arise because now its just a name, but give it a few decades and we will be soon moving towards territorial claims when everyb
84 Lewis: True, back then there were no Greeks, there were Spartans, Corinthians, Athenians, Macedonians etc.
85 OA260: Jesus !!!! I haven't seen that before !! Lefkos Pyrgos !!! Thats totally out of order . Are they mad . Even more need to define borders and names if
86 AlexEU: I hope you are not talking about territorial disputes beatween FYROM and Greece, because AFAIK, there are no disputes with Greece (apart from the nam
87 IliriBDL: I thinks its silly of Greece to claim that the name is theirs. Macedonia has always been there, just like Greece has been in their country, just like
88 ME AVN FAN: King Philipp II of Macedonia, the father of Alexander the Great, had a strong dislike for Greeks, but sent his son to Athens for education, which sho
89 OA260: No I was never there and have no real want to go there. Its full of British Troops. More BS !!! Really you should read the news a bit more. Greece ha
90 ME AVN FAN: [quote=OA260,reply=89]wont compromise then Greece will use its Veto which it has every right to do so. - By the way you put it, it is clear that Greec
91 OA260: Greece is happy with them having Macedonia in the name as long as its defined by something else in front. They are compromising plenty. They just did
92 ME AVN FAN: - WHAT in front of it ? Some ideas : Free Republic of Macedonia Real Republic of Macedonia True Republic of Macedonia Democratic Republic of Macedoni
93 OA260: No its not it was Formerly Yugoslav. Probably one of those two.
94 Analog: That's a disturbing website. Some people spend this much time basically denying that an ethnic group exists? Your statement supports the idea that Gr
95 AlexEU: Yes, it was a province of Vardar back in Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians. Democratic republic of Macedonia or People's sounds best
96 EL-AL: Maybe, but for the time been (41 years now) it's all part of 1 city. The city is United for 41 years now, while it was divided between Israel and Jor
97 OA260: So what did FYROM ask Greece to rename their part of Macedonia to then seeing as you know so much ???? What did FYROM come up with in the most recent
98 ME AVN FAN: I mean the wall which some people might feel necessary to get erected when East Jerusalem becomes the Palestinian Capital . Divided cities canNOT be
99 Analog: How sad. In 1999 I drove around the Palestinian Territories in an Israeli-plated car without any problems. Obviously;suggesting something like that w
100 EL-AL: Again, maybe you are right. Frankly, I dont think there is any Israeli politician who can divide Jerusalem because of the public consensus in Israel
101 AndesSMF: May I also remind you that Greece is not an official country name. It is called the 'Hellenic Republic'.
102 OA260: You are indeed correct. Well done on that most foreigners dont know that !!!
103 AndesSMF: Happens when you are a geography geek like I am.
104 OA260: Demonstrators Cause Clashes in Skopje In the meantime, clashes were reported on Wednesday night near the Liaison Office of the Hellenic Republic. Poli
105 Analog: I was being sarcastic. Just because one party (Greece) demands something from another party (Macedonia/FYROM), doesn't mean that a negotiation and/or
106 OA260: Errrr the current UN sponsored talks !!!
107 AlexEU: So, how do you visit Benthlehem? There is a tour agency in Belgrade offering this, so I just wondered. They said that it's pretty safe. Me too! I kno
108 IliriBDL: So they help the countries "they" choose to "want" to help. Why not help their neighbors Macedonians or Albanians? Macedonia never was Greek and neve
109 IliriBDL: Giving you an example here, say you had a son today and wanted to name him John, and I came to you and said no way, you gotta include Sam (or whateve
110 IliriBDL: Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't see how Macedonia being called Macedonia will in any way hurt Greece? Will they cease to exist? Will the
111 OA260: The province of Macedonia with in Greek borders will always be Greek Macedonia !!! Yes its compromising . Greece is not asking them to totally drop t
112 ME AVN FAN: - He referred to the COUNTRY with the name Macedonia, and not to a province somewhere - well, not too long ago, Greece made a lot of fuss exactly abo
113 OA260: Are you his spokes person now??? And Greece has compromised!!!! So I dont know what your problem is !!!
114 IliriBDL: Help yourself, maybe even change the name from Hellen to Makedonia, or something to that extend. But just leave the country Macedonia, which is outsi
115 OA260: The Democratic or Independent Republic of Macedonia is acceptable . If they make no claims to Greek Macedonia then why dont they accept it??? Just lo
116 SBBRTech: Agreed. Is that legal tender in today's Macedonia? If so, than all the greek talk about future territorial claims by Fyrom suddlenly doesn't sound al
117 OA260: I actually have to say I was shocked at that and had never seen it before. After talking to my friends they said ''didnt you see that before??''. I w
118 ME AVN FAN: Quoting OA260 (Reply 113): He referred to the COUNTRY with the name Macedonia, and not to a province somewhere Are you his spokes person now??? No, I
119 OA260: Then you do not understand the Greek side a bit more and need to read up on its reasons a bit more before making statements .
120 PA110: That note is NOT legal tender in Macedonia. It never has been! It was printed by a local print shop in 1991 as a silly attempt to get the contract to
121 ME AVN FAN: - I regard the positions of "the Greek side" as a bit emotional and overdone. To make such a horrific fuss just due to the official name of a neighbo
122 IliriBDL: ^ Yep, like minority rights in Greece. They expect minority rights to be protected in Kosovo while in Greece, a EU country, there are no minority righ
123 OA260: Crap !!! Albanians get free health care and pay outs of social welfare from IKA !!! I know that for a fact. They actually get more than many Greeks d
124 PA110: Who knows? But in sadly typical greek fashion, you take one individual's actions and ascribe it to the entire nation for no reason other than stirrin
125 OA260: Again you dont understand the situation on the ground and around the borders. You seem to forget other provocations and even yesterday the language b
126 ME AVN FAN: - You start to sound Swiss by talking about betther healthcare and social welfare than in the country of origin. But Switzerland does neither force n
127 EL-AL: Israelis can not enter Palestinian Authority area, you can do that because you have a Serbian passport.
128 PA110: Geez, you're unbelievable! Again, you're trying to dodge and confuse the issue. The issue was Greece's treatment of ITS OWN ethnic minorities, not gu
129 OA260: I'm talking about Greece not Switzerland !! I dont care what they do in Switzerland. Thats your problem. Just like your arguments!!! FYROM on EU docu
130 PA110: Sweetheart, it must be nice living in a perpetual state of denial. Nothing live avoiding the issue by just denying it exists.
131 ME AVN FAN: - It is NOT a problem in Switzerland please in future when talking about the U.K. talk about the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Irelan
132 OA260: No because they dont have sensitive border disputes If FYROM is ready to join NATO and EU then they need to act like members. Their language is quite
133 PA110: And yet, in all of this - only Greece seems to have a problem with Macedonia. They don't seem to have any problems with the 40+ nations who have alre
134 OA260: The 40+ other nations dont all live in an un stable region where borders and names can mean serious issues later down the road !!! Define the name an
135 PA110: But that's just the thing... the borders ARE defined. The Macedonian government has repeatedly and categorically rejected any claims on land currentl
136 OA260: They are NOT !! Did you read any of the articles at the start of the thread ??? If anyone is crying wolf its FYROM!!! They will realise soon that cry
137 IFlyTWA: Rainbow Party of Greece Letter to Mr. Nimetz - February 26, 2008 "Member of the European Free Alliance - European Political Party (E.F.A-E.P.P) Member
138 IFlyTWA: http://www.makfax.com.mk/look/novina...le=102885&NrIssue=593&NrSection=10 Identity more important than NATO Skopje/Budapest /26/02/ 13:56 Membership i
139 PA110: OK, you want to continue playing this game, let's play. Let's take those articles one by one. " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...
140 OA260: http://www.unitedmacedonians.org/activities/speech.html ''We are concerned about the sale of the Macedonian strategic plants to our traditional enemie
141 OA260: No you may think its a game but for alot of people its about future peace and stability ..... Well you would say that as your biased towards FYROM!!!
142 PA110: Oh Geez, here you go again! You seem to have a passion for quoting only the most highly biased sources possible... first Greek, now a bunch of hothea
143 PA110: Quoting OA260 (Reply 141): Well you would say that as your biased towards FYROM!!!! I'm sorry, who? Quite the contrary. I like Greece, and the Greek p
144 OA260: Seems like you will keep your biased anti Greek stance and not even try to see it from the Greek point of view so your posts are worthless !!! You wa
145 PA110: Oh sweetheart, you really have to lay off the ouzo... You're trying to compare a crowd burning the US Embassy in Belgrade (with the complicity of the
146 OA260: Oh really where did you see that then??? To quote your earlier post !!! Yes it is very odd isnt it ??? They claim Agean Macedonia as occupied ''Maced
147 PA110: Fair enough. It is very true that some refer to the northern Greek province as Aegean Macedonia, just as they refer to a small western piece of Bulga
148 OA260: Quoting PA110 (Reply 147): It's just a shame that Greece can't seem to bring itself to realize this, But when you see whats going on in other Balkan n
149 IFlyTWA: Like how Macedonia was carved up in 1913?[Edited 2008-03-01 01:16:46]
150 OA260: So are you saying that indemnifies anyone trying to carve up more of it in 2008 and onwards??? Where does it all stop?? Europe is a very different pl
151 IliriBDL: I don't see any changes in the Balkans for the next couple hundred years. Finally everything is settled, even though the Serbs don't like it, the majo
152 OA260: Well thats something I can agree with you on.
153 AlexEU: Macedonia-Greece boundary is ethical too. So, there are very few Macedonians living in Greece and vice verca. How come Palestine-Jordan border is mai
154 EL-AL: There is no border between the Palestinian Authority and Jordan. There is an area east of the PA and west of the Jordan river (which is the border be
155 AlexEU: I didn't know that. But there is a border control between Gaza (Palestine) and Egypt. I still assume Palestine as a country
156 IliriBDL: Imagine if things were left on our hands, we'd fix them better than our govts. haha Its about time. lol
158 ME AVN FAN: Because the outer borders of the Palestinian Territories are controlled by Israel. Also the airspace (air-traffic) and the sea (shipping/fishing) etc
159 EL-AL: After what happen few weeks ago (250,000 Palestinians broke into Sinai illegally) I don't think the Egyptians allow anyone to enter from Gaza to Sina
160 AlexEU: Well, it is recognized by about 100 countries. Although it is not an ''ordinary'' country, it still can't be part of Israel. Who controls Israeli-PA
161 ME AVN FAN: Palestine needs to have a border with Jordan. That the Palestinians canNOT hope to get 100% of what was the WestBank and EastJerusalem in 1967 is how
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''FYROM'' was only an interim name until the dispute got settled. Realistically it was never going to remain that .
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