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Seattle Sonics To OKC? WTF?  
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1819 times:

I know this is old news....but, I've been reading more about this lately (ESPN.com currently has a good article on the NBA section about it) and the more I think about it, the more disgusted I am.

Here you have a major metro area...over five million last time I checked...home to numerous large corporations...and its NBA team is getting moved to Oklahoma City because a new stadium won't be built. I mean, is Key Arena really that bad? I read it was last updated in 1995, and that the new owner of the team is complaining about lack of restaurants and other amenities in the arena. Hey Clay, what about 40+ years of loyal fan support? Not good enough for ya?

Is this what pro sports has come to?

I will say this. I was surprised when the Hornets moved from Charlotte to New Orleans back in 2002 (although, obviously, pleasantly so), but that move wasn't as surprising as this move. And it seems like the commish is not getting in the way to prevent it. It sucks knowing that greedy owners are ruining the integrity of pro sports.

Sure, OKC showed great support for the Hornets over the past couple of years. I think they deserve a team...but an expansion team. Instead of opening new teams in Asia or Europe or wherever else, the NBA should hit up cities like OKC first. But, I guess that's a discussion for another day.

[Edited 2008-03-01 07:34:04]

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRJAF From Jordan, joined Jan 2007, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1804 times:

This is really sad. The Supersonics or the Sonics will always be associated with Seattle! I went to college in Oregon in the 80s and always supported the Sonics (and not the Blazers). Used to love Mcdaniel Payton and Kemp.


Chance favors the prepared mind
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3085 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1793 times:

The Maloof's have been threatening the same thing with our Sacramento Kings. They want to move them down to LAS because our tax payers do not want to fund a brand new arena in a terrible location. Arco Arena was only built in the early 1990's and has a good remote location. If they are so god damn concerned with getting a new area, why don't they pay up a large chunk of the tab at least?

One of the few reasons I've lost interest in the NBA and focus more on NCAA.



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1789 times:



Quoting RJAF (Reply 1):
The Supersonics or the Sonics will always be associated with Seattle!

Until they move to OKC  duck 

I see this happening. They really enjoy their basketball in OKC...you have OU (as bad as they are) just down the road in Norman, and OKC television sets are quite often tuned to New Orleans Hornets games even though they have moved back to NO. There isn't a whole hell of a lot to do in Oklahoma City, and the arena was always packed for the NOK Hornets games...this is success waiting to happen.

Yeah, this pro sports...keep in mind also that Baltimore is looking at moving out to Los Angeles (we're talking MLB here) once the Dodgers move out...money is king.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1784 times:

The article I read also mentions that the new arena that the owner wants/wanted to build in SEA would cost $500 million, which was more than the new SEA baseball and football stadiums combined. How much sense does that make?

User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1757 times:

Back when Safeco and Qwest fields were being funded, the city of Seattle rammed tax hikes down the throats of Seattle residents to pay for it. Big money backers, like Phil Knight and Microsoft, did not want to pay for their toys. From what I understand, the same thing is happening in this situation as well as with Huskies Stadium on the University of Washington campus. The people of King County do not want more taxes to pay for something the team and it's owners should pay for.

But not to worry. As with Charlotte, Seattle will get a franchise within five years. Either by the NBA awarding a new one or Phil Knight moving the Blazers there. Portlanders would just as soon tear down the Rose Garden and use the rubble to block the Interstate and Jackson Bridges than allow the Blazers to leave town!

Quoting SW733 (Reply 3):
...keep in mind also that Baltimore is looking at moving out to Los Angeles (we're talking MLB here) once the Dodgers move out

I have not heard the Dodgers are moving. Where are they going? When did this happen?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1753 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
Is this what pro sports has come to?

Along with Wrigley Field being known as something like Viagra Field in a few years, sadly yes.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
I have not heard the Dodgers are moving. Where are they going? When did this happen?

News to me too, anyone want to elaborate?



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently onlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1320 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1737 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 3):
Yeah, this pro sports...keep in mind also that Baltimore is looking at moving out to Los Angeles (we're talking MLB here) once the Dodgers move out...money is king.

Uh, what?  redflag 

You do realize that it took so damn long for MLB to move the Expos because they couldn't find anywhere besides DC to move them and Selig really didn't want to upset his boy Angelos by putting the team here? So they tried, and guess what? There was NOWHERE else to move the team. And why would the Dodgers, who turned the second-largest profit in baseball in 2006 and have the fourth-highest franchise value, want to move to someplace that would kill both of those?

Also, Baltimore is definitely not thinking of moving. Despite the Nats moving to Washington, they're still sitting on a goldmine up there, and the reason is that in the deal to get Angelos to shut up for a change, MLB handed him a far larger stake in the regional sports network for Baltimore and Washington. That is, the Orioles get their own TV revenues, plus most of the Nationals' as well. Considering local TV revenue is a huge source of income and isn't subject to revenue sharing, that's a HUGE advantage. It basically makes the Baltimore franchise risk-free.

Finally, you do realize how difficult it is to move a franchise, right? Baseball's anti-trust and ownership structures make it impossible to move without the approval of the other teams, which has happened exactly once in the last 30 years.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 2):
The Maloof's have been threatening the same thing with our Sacramento Kings. They want to move them down to LAS because our tax payers do not want to fund a brand new arena in a terrible location. Arco Arena was only built in the early 1990's and has a good remote location. If they are so god damn concerned with getting a new area, why don't they pay up a large chunk of the tab at least?

The key to this answer is that even more than other sports (except hockey), the cost of building a new basketball arena is so high relative to the value of the franchise that it often makes more sense to go where they offer a free arena than to pay for one yourself. Unfortunately, it also has a lot to do with where there are extremely rich people. While Sacramento has a great fan base, they don't have enough major corporations who pay for the high-margin luxury suites compared to a place like Las Vegas. Instead, they (like my hometown, Washington), have a lot of politicians who want free seats in great locations. That doesn't help either. And the problem with Arco, unfortunately, is that it was built ('88) just before the revolution in stadium and arena design and revenue management that happened in the mid-90s and caused the vast wave of arena replacements.

The analogy of airlines isn't entirely inapplicable here. What you're looking at, at least with Vegas, is a plane with full premium cabins, half-full Y, and your fuel already paid for. If they wanted to stay in Sacramento, it would be a jammed Y class, half-full premium, and paying for their fuel. Now which one would the money-grubbing owners choose?


User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3085 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1721 times:



Quoting IADCA (Reply 7):

Completely understandable. However, I at one time, and to an extent today, am a big part of that fan base. I just hate to see these "new" owners come in and take away the only professional sport Sacramento has because of greed. I would think they could find another team that didn't sell every single seat in their arena for so many years, move them to LAS, and make better profits. Just my admittedly biased fan opinion.



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1721 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):

I have not heard the Dodgers are moving. Where are they going? When did this happen?

I thought it was crazy too, I'm just repeating what I heard on ESPN on Wednesday.


User currently onlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1320 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1699 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 9):
I thought it was crazy too, I'm just repeating what I heard on ESPN on Wednesday.

As another poster kindly PMed and reminded me, what they're moving is their Spring Training facility, which has been at Dodgertown in Vero Beach, Florida; they're moving their ST out to Arizona next year. The main season isn't going anywhere. I think what you probably heard is that the Orioles will move their Spring Training into the old Dodgertown facility from Fort Lauderdale.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1687 times:



Quoting IADCA (Reply 10):
As another poster kindly PMed and reminded me, what they're moving is their Spring Training facility, which has been at Dodgertown in Vero Beach, Florida

Ahhhh....sorry, I'm a football and basketball fan...this is what happens when I half-ass pay attention to baseball news. Sorry folks.


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1684 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
Either by the NBA awarding a new one or Phil Knight moving the Blazers there. Portlanders would just as soon tear down the Rose Garden and use the rubble to block the Interstate and Jackson Bridges than allow the Blazers to leave town!

Paul Allen owns the Blazers. I wish Phil Knight did, as I think it's more likely the Blazers would move to Eugene than Seattle if Knight was the owner. I hope Paul Allen isn't dumb enough to ruin the good thing he has going with the Blazers right now by trying to move them to Seattle.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineChi-town From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 971 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1681 times:

The owner is from Oklahoma----he wants his team in OKC.

User currently offlineChi-town From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 971 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1680 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 3):
Yeah, this pro sports...keep in mind also that Baltimore is looking at moving out to Los Angeles (we're talking MLB here) once the Dodgers move out...money is king.

What is your source? That's absolute bullcrap, the Dodgers aren't going anywhere.


User currently onlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1320 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1676 times:



Quoting Chi-town (Reply 14):
What is your source? That's absolute bullcrap, the Dodgers aren't going anywhere.

Read the thread and you'll have your answer. He was just confused; they're moving the Spring Training facility, not the team itself.


User currently offlineChi-town From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 971 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1676 times:

Haha, ok, didn't catch that. Bad statement by the original poster---very misleading.

User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1669 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
I mean, is Key Arena really that bad? I read it was last updated in 1995, and that the new owner of the team is complaining about lack of restaurants and other amenities in the arena.

I actually like KeyArena as a basketball venue. Great sightlines - even for us ordinary fans, but I have heard that the luxury boxes are unpopular with the big spenders. KeyArena is also one of the smallest NBA arenas. 17,072 is the official capacity. It is also unsuitable for NHL hockey because the floor is too small for the rink without removing a good deal of the lower level seats behind one goal. Even worse, with the rink installed, a large chunk of the upper level can't see part of the ice. The then-owner of the Sonics did not want potential NHL "competition" playing in the same arena and did not support a larger floor. If the 1995 renovation made KeyArena a viable hockey facility, I don't think we'd have this problem because the arena would have more seating, and therefore more space for amenities. Major concerts/shows are also problematic because of inadequate loading dock space.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
Back when Safeco and Qwest fields were being funded, the city of Seattle rammed tax hikes down the throats of Seattle residents to pay for it. Big money backers, like Phil Knight and Microsoft, did not want to pay for their toys. From what I understand, the same thing is happening in this situation as well as with Huskies Stadium on the University of Washington campus. The people of King County do not want more taxes to pay for something the team and it's owners should pay for.

Not entirely true.

Safeco and Qwest Fields are funded by state-authorized taxes like the reastaurant food sales tax in King County and the rental car taxes, plus lottery proceeds. I don't think there are any City of Seattle taxes involved in the construction of either stadium.

Phil Knight has nothing to do with any Seattle sports teams.

Microsoft doesn't either. Paul Allen, in case you missed it, retired from MSFT years ago.

Husky Stadium's renovation plan would have used the same taxes as Safeco/Qwest.


User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1610 times:



Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 17):
If the 1995 renovation made KeyArena a viable hockey facility, I don't think we'd have this problem because the arena would have more seating, and therefore more space for amenities. Major concerts/shows are also problematic because of inadequate loading dock space.

I didn't think Seattle was ever interested in an NHL franchise. Portland built the Rose Garden for the possiblity of getting an NHL franchise to play along with the Blazers. I went to a few Thunderbird games at Key and was not impressed. It seemed crowded even for a WHL team. The actual site of the stadium relative to the population of Seattle is terrific. But, because of parking, transit, and moving cargo in and out of the arena, it is horrible.

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 17):
Safeco and Qwest Fields are funded by state-authorized taxes like the reastaurant food sales tax in King County and the rental car taxes, plus lottery proceeds. I don't think there are any City of Seattle taxes involved in the construction of either stadium.

I lived in Seattle from 1999 to 2001 and one thing people were upset about was the funding of both Qwest Field and Safeco Field. Residents of King County, as I remember, were upset because there was NO money coming from either the Seahawks or the Mariners or their respective owners. The city and county were turning to the residents to pay for both stadiums. A similar situation is happening here in Oregon. The state legislature just authorized funds to build a new basketball stadium at University of Oregon. Why should I have to pay, however indirectly, for any kind of stadium I will never use in any way? I have no desire to watch Ducks basketball and I have no plans to ever attend UO. I never even stop in Eugene or Springfield for anything on my way along I-5! Thousands of residents all over Oregon are asking the same question.

As far as the names of people inolved: Between Phil Knight and Paul Allen, I can't keep them straight. Two ultra rich white guys. Paul Allen, I guess, talks about moving the Blazers to Seattle.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4606 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

Here is my take from someone who never went to a Hornets game, didn't really care about it, and got annoyed at the parking being taken up in Bricktown by fans. LOL

The Sonics and the Seattle Storm were purchased by PBC, LLC which is led by Clay Bennett and funded by several executives of OKC's larger companies (Chesapeake Energy, SandRidge Energy, MidFirst Bank, the Gaylord Family, etc). The sale in 2006 was because the previous owner, I believe CEO fo Starbucks, was fed up with the city not moving on replaceing Key Arena. PBC came in and said okay, we are going to work on it for a year and if we don't get a deal, then we'll file to move. A few plans came about but all fell through.

So after a year they filed for relocation. The vote is in April. The City of Seattle is suing PBC to force them to stay in Seattle until the lease is up in 2010. The city has rejected every offer for PBC to buyout the remaining years of the lease. During 2006/2007 pretty much most of Seattle really didn't care about the Sonics staying, probably figuring a deal would happen anyways, and then time ran out.

As far as what comes next. Next Tuesday, March 4th, OKC residents will vote on extending the 1% developmental sales tax that has been in place since the early 90's. This is the same tax that has been used to build the downtown canal, Bricktown Ballpark, Ford Center, new art museum, downtown library, renovate the Civic Center, renovate the Myriad Convention Center (now named after Cox), and more recently fund the replacement or renovation of every school in the OKC school district. If it passes on Monday it'll be in effect for 15 months to fund the expansion and upgrading of the Ford Center and also construct a new practice facility. Once that runs out the next vote in a year or two will be for MAPS 3 which is likely to target a new convention center, downtown park area, and a new mass transit/light rail system.

If that vote passes, then it'll be up to the NBA board to approve the move - something likely to happen since Stern is for the move. Then it is just getting the lawsuit settled with Seattle.

I think what OKC has going for it is the extremely favorable business climate, people in the community that are more forward thinking that cities elsewhere, and a tremendous sports following. Someone mentioned OU basketball, I believe itis actually the women that get more attention since Sherri Cole does an amazing job every year keeping them in the Top 10. However, people came out and supported the Hornets, which is an okay measure of success - but it was also something different for the city. They do though still support all the minor league teams in the city (AAA Baseball, CHL hockey, and AFL2) and the local universities (OU, OSU, UCO, etc). There is also a plan to acquire one of the new minor league soccer teams.

Personally I want to see an expansion rather than a city losing a team. However, what we have is a situation where the last two ownership groups have been unhappy with Seattle and have threatend to move. Say Clay sells the team back to owners in Seattle. What is to stop them in a year or two getting fed up as well and then all of a sudden Kansas City has their choice tennant for the Sprint Center. To NOLA fans, that is probably the next city to watch out for if Shinn keeps being stupid. KC wants an NBA team there badly...and if the Hornets look weak in NOLA, they'll do what they can to get 'em.


User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1582 times:



Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 19):
all of a sudden Kansas City has their choice tennant for the Sprint Center.

That is something I never understood: Why does a city get a pro franchise and, when it moves, they get another one? If it is all about money but a team loses money, why do they get another team if they are just going to lose money? Houston Oilers moved to Nashville, and now Houston has the Texans. St Louis lost the Cardinals and now they have the Rams. Charlotte lost the Hornets and they now have the Bobcats. Even Kansas City had a team way back; The Kings. It does not happen that often, but when it does it always leads me to ask: Why?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently onlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1320 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1567 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):
Why does a city get a pro franchise and, when it moves, they get another one? If it is all about money but a team loses money, why do they get another team if they are just going to lose money? Houston Oilers moved to Nashville, and now Houston has the Texans. St Louis lost the Cardinals and now they have the Rams. Charlotte lost the Hornets and they now have the Bobcats. Even Kansas City had a team way back; The Kings. It does not happen that often, but when it does it always leads me to ask: Why?

In most cases, it's because the league expands. Say a team in a 26-team league moves out of a city that it essentially considers to be the 28th best market and goes to one that it considers the 24th, which lacks a team. That's market economics, well and good. Then the league expands to 30 teams; suddenly that 28-best market is viable in comparison with other ones competing for new franchises. That was the case with both the Texans and Bobcats.

The Rams were a weird case, as they jumped just as LA went from 2 football teams to zero. They were seduced by the new-stadium dance and the lack of being able to make their stadium in LA more football-friendly and revenue-friendly.

Another factor that can change things is just pure time. Markets grow and shrink relative to each other over time, which makes places that failed before possible successes now. One example of this is Washington, DC and baseball. While bad ownership and on-field performance screwed baseball in DC decades ago, the enormous growth of the area since then gives the Nationals a much better shot at success.

Some other reasons are just the ridiculous, hypocritical, greedy nature of sports owners. See Bud Selig regarding the Seattle Pilots, then see his later attitudes towards moving teams. George Shinn and the Hornets is another example. These guys make airline CEOs look like gentlemen.


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4606 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1491 times:

Next piece of the puzzle has been laid, it is now up to the NBA Board...

http://www.news9.com/global/Category.asp?c=124638

At 903pm CST...The penny sales tax to fun upgrades to the Ford Center in OKC and also construction of the NBA practice facility...

61.6% Yes - 38,942 votes
38.4% No - 24,268 votes

Definitely pretty pathetic showing at the polls for something so big, but this was the only measure up for a vote today in OKC proper.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1429 times:



Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 22):
Next piece of the puzzle has been laid, it is now up to the NBA Board...

I think it's all downhill from here since that resolution was passed.

BTW...the Hornets have sold out three of their last four home games since the All Star break, 16,259 for the whole month of February, and have now passed up PHL, MEM and IND in the attendance standings...with SEA in sight. If the fans in NOLA keep on supporting this team, which I think they will, SEA better look for an expansion club down the road and not a Hornets relocation.


User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 33
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1425 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
but an expansion team.

Like the NHL already has become, the NBA will become with further expansion, and that is.....watered down.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 23):
the Hornets have sold out three of their last four home games since the All Star break

.....and it's a good thing I've already purchased two seats to the March 14 home game against the Lakers  wink  , cause that game's pretty much sold out.

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
25 Ouboy79 : Nice job! I think people weren't giving NOLA enough time to regroup once the team came back. You had the typical bitterness at Shinn and how the OKC
26 Ctbarnes : The whole issue of wealthy team owners playing stadium blackmail, demanding public funds to build stadiums so the owners can make even more money or t
27 MSYtristar : I think so too, honestly. It's the first full year back, and there was a pretty big disconnection between the team and the fans in the beginning. New
28 Tom in NO : Hopefully so.....and they've got some more competition with the VooDoo's season having just begun. IIRC, the VooDoo had the highest home attendance i
29 N1120A : The main issue is that it is small. Yeah, they aren't going anywhere. They own their arena outright, which is not the trend anymore with public fundi
30 UAL747 : The owner, Clay Bennett of Oklahoma City, wants the team in OKC, and as part of the Gaylord family, the Bennetts, following Gaylord's lead, have been
31 MSYtristar : I don't think it's any secret that Shinn would have stayed in OKC given the chance. Thankfully, that wasn't allowed to happen. The right thing to do
32 Fumanchewd : I don't think so. Stern is known to hold a grudge and Seattle will not get a team unless they build a stadium which they aren't willing to do. Not to
33 SW733 : Ok, I get it, I screwed up. People need the lay off me, I admitted my mistake. God forbid someone make ONE mistake on this website. Besides, how coul
34 N1120A : I don't really Stearn has a dog in this fight. Remember, NBA teams use arenas, not stadiums. I am sure there are plenty of facilities large enough in
35 Post contains links Fumanchewd : Stern is the general and he has alot of influence in the manner. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/336871_arena26.html And do you think that F
36 UAL747 : It's funny though, Mayor Mick Cornett of Oklahoma City has been campaigning this tax increase for the Ford Center for the past month it seems like on
37 RFields5421 : Just as the Jazz are always associated with New Orleans.
38 Post contains links Fumanchewd : Just found another good article from a couple of years back which shows Stern will not use most current European arenas. "It is a dream of mine, but w
39 N1120A : I realize that. I just don't think he will actively push the move. I am sure he wont stand in the way either. FIBA really wouldn't be in control ther
40 Slider : Not even close...3.2MM total metro. What do you mean COME TO? It's been like this for years. I think paraphrasing Karl Marx is appropriate here--it i
41 MSYtristar : My bad. Still, 3.2 is nothing to sneeze at. Yea, it just seems to have become increasingly worse as the years pass.
42 UAL747 : BTWm, Per Oklahoma City Radio Stations: The Sonics deal is not as of yet sealed. Assuming that the Sonics DO decide to come to Oklahoma City, the tax
43 Fumanchewd : You obviously haven't read my sources that state there is only one right now and plans for three or four.
44 N1120A : Your sources also very obviously leave out some important factors. How much parking do you really need in Europe? A place like Festhalle Frankfurt is
45 Fumanchewd : David Stern says that the current stadiums won't work. I wouldn't doubt if he is using false premises but the key is that he won't use the current one
46 N1120A : That would be a terrible idea. As it is, it takes a whole season, if not also some playoff games, for many teams to be profitable for the year. Well,
47 Fumanchewd : I agree. However, I think that one of the most challenging aspects is the available talent. If teams start to become diluted in talent it will collap
48 Post contains images Ouboy79 : Umm...Griffin Family owns KWTV Channel 9, and KOTV in Tulsa...not the Gaylords. In fact, the two hate each other after the split up on the joint News
49 N1120A : BTW, one of the big things brewing is that the Sonics still owe the City of Seattle 2 years on a pretty iron clad lease. I am wondering what is going
50 Ouboy79 : Every lease is suppose to be iron clad, but they get broken daily in this county. General rule of thumb, you cannot force a tenant to stay for the en
51 Post contains links and images FXramper : Microsoft CEO wants to buy Sonics and keep them in Seattle.
52 UAL747 : Okay then, that is why I thought the Gaylords owned 9. The poll I specifically saw was on Channel 5 news on Monday night at 5:00. UAL
53 Ouboy79 : I don't expect much out of the latest purchase offer by the MS CEO and others. Clay has to agree to sell, publically he has no intention to. What may
54 N1120A : I am well aware of how things work with leases of real property. If the City of Seattle really wants to, they can try to prove up more damages than j
55 Post contains images Ouboy79 : Typo on my part...well aware of the differences. Working on two things at once breaks my focus. One thing the City of Seattle will need to watch is j
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