Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Should Turkey Enter The European Union?  
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

Hi guys !

Well thats the Question .

I'm against it ! As a Union has to base on commonalities , and the main commonality is the Territorial and this one is not given here . If we let Turkey enter , we can also allow Israel or Morocco .

And they have a complete different culture , a strategic Partnership as Merkel and Sarkozy want is OK .

Yes :
No : 1

Constantin

130 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2532 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
As a Union has to base on commonalities

so what commonalities do the current 27 EU members share that you feel Turkey doesnt


Yes: 1
No: 1



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4012 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Turkey has more reason to be in the EU than Israel has to be in the Eurovision Song Contest.

User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2523 times:

Yes: 1
No: 2

I'm against it. There are many threads on this subject, buy the consensus is always the same. Turkey has no business to be in the EU and we in the EU have more to gain by keeping Turkey out indefinitely.

saludos

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2517 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Turkey has no business to be in the EU

A lot of people would think that the UK has no business being in the EU , or Italy , indeed if you name any of the current 27 members I am sure you would be able to find someone who thinks that they have no business being in the EU - would you care to be more specific why you think Turkey has no business being in the EU ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Yes

They are modern and more deserving than Romania for example. Plus they play a big role in NATO. Also them being a muslim country should have nothing to do with their ability to enter the EU.



delta.com
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2510 times:



Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 5):
They are modern and more deserving than Romania for example. Plus they play a big role in NATO. Also them being a muslim country should have nothing to do with their ability to enter the EU.

Them being a muslim country has nothing to do with it, rather that Turkey is a sham of a country that is on the verge of collapse at any given time.

Romania is also a European country, unlike Turkey, which gives it a huge leg-up compared to Turkey. If the EU ever decides to let in non-European countries, then perhaps Turkey could be seriously considered.

Until that happens, not a chance.

saludos

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2508 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Asturias (Reply 6):
rather that Turkey is a sham of a country that is on the verge of collapse at any given time.



On that basis I assume that you are one of those people who thinks Italy has no business being in the EU either  Big grin



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

The sad reality is that skin color and religion will always come into play when entering into this debate. Turkey being predominantly Muslim (despite being a secular state) will always be held back by this fact. There is already a fair bit of contempt towards minorities around Europe and no shortage of incidents where Muslims are the victims. Allowing Turkey to join would open up the floodgates for this type of incident.

All things considered Turkey will not ever be allowed in the EU, really they might as well call it the European Christian Union. A favorite argument amongst those against Turkey joining is "porous borders" that would supposedly put the EU at the mercy of illegal immigration from Asia. This is total BS as Turkey has strong border controls enforced by its military.

But they will let Romania join... what a joke.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2490 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 7):
On that basis I assume that you are one of those people who thinks Italy has no business being in the EU either  

Guilty as charged Big grin

saludos

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2482 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 8):
really they might as well call it the European Christian Union

I'm going to request people stop the religious whining. Sweden was admitted to the EU and there are less than 10% who considerthemselves Christian in any meaningful way in that country!

Unless you want to suggest the name should be the European Atheist and Christian Union?

I'm sorry, you're just grasping at straws, playing the 'religion' card and ignoring that Romania was far far FAR better qualified than Turkey will be in the foreseeable future.

Not to mention, a European country. The EU is a political entity, not a trade union like it was in the beginning.

saludos

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2477 times:



Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
I'm sorry, you're just grasping at straws, playing the 'religion' card and ignoring that Romania was far far FAR better qualified than Turkey will be in the foreseeable future.

Romania was not qualified at all.

Turkey on the other hand is more qualified than any Balkan state at the moment. Including Greece who is in the EU but still plays the nationalist card and causing problems with Macedonia over its name.


You my friend seems that you hate Turkey and the Turks, otherwise you haven't proved how they are not qualified.



delta.com
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2466 times:



Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 11):
You my friend seems that you hate Turkey and the Turks, otherwise you haven't proved how they are not qualified.

OK, now that the religion card is out, you play the race card. Well done. Not going to help your argument one iota, but hey.

Let's make one thing clear: it is YOU who need to demonstrate how Turkey is more qualified than Romania, because you're making that claim!

Meanwhile back in reality, Romania was found to be more qualified than Turkey by the EU. But what do they know?

This is like arguments on the KC-X for the USAF. The USAF chooses product A, but fans of product B claim that it's really better for the USAF. Surely the USAF chose product A because of politics, not on merits, no matter what documents and reality shows. It's all secret bias.

I won't even dignify your claims of me hating Turkey with an answer. The EU has found that Romania is qualified given the requirements of the Union and it has found Turkey lacking. That's the reality.

Perhaps Turkey isn't better off in a Union with countries that have different priorities - after all Turkey has had decades to achieve the requirements of the EU and it hasn't. It's a democratic country, isn't it? Well, it hasn't chosen to go in the direction of the EU for whatever reason, it has only decided to apply for membership.

saludos

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2461 times:



Quoting Asturias (Reply 6):
Romania is also a European country, unlike Turkey, which gives it a huge leg-up compared to Turkey. If the EU ever decides to let in non-European countries, then perhaps Turkey could be seriously considered.

A significant part of Turkey is in Europe. Why should they be disqualified just because part of if is outside Europe?

That said, I'm undecided on whether or not Turkey should be admitted to the EU... but not due to geographical issues.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

I think they should be allowed to enter, eventually. Turkey has a long way to go on human rights and regional self-determination (plus the whole Cyprus thing), and the current trend away from a secular state towards a more Islamic one will not help their cause. Religion per say is not the issue, but religious influence and potential religious intolerance is. I think Turkey has a perfect right to join the EU provided they meet the entry criteria.

User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2449 times:



Quoting David L (Reply 13):
A significant part of Turkey is in Europe. Why should they be disqualified just because part of if is outside Europe?

That said, I'm undecided on whether or not Turkey should be admitted to the EU... but not due to geographical issues.

No an *insignificant* part of Turkey is on geographical Europe. However, that in and of itself isn't the point. Take Iceland for example. While they seem to be happy in EFTA with little aspirations to elevate themselves to full EU membership, they'd be accepted in a heartbeat.

Yet, about 50% of Iceland is geographically in America.

However there is no doubt in anyone's mind that Iceland is European. Not because of geography. Also the question isn't just "should Turkey join the EU at some point", rather it is *can* Turkey join at some point. Is it in the interest of the EU?

Whether Turkey is or is not in geographical Europe is debatable, but it requires immense historical revisionism to place it there, though that is not beneath some people.

Regardless, even though one would come to the decision that it is indeed part of Europe, that opens the question whether it should join or not and even though one would find that it should, one has to ask if it could.

And as it is today and in the foreseeable future, it can't.

saludos

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2445 times:



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
If we let Turkey enter , we can also allow Israel or Morocco .

Turkey is a European country, Israel in a way as well. Morocco is a member of the Arab League, and together with Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan an E.U. associate.
-

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
a complete different culture

no, it is not a completely different culture, it is similar to the cultures of the countries on the Balkans like Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo
-

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
a strategic Partnership as Merkel and Sarkozy want is OK .

-
the Strategic Partnership and their Association Treaty are already in place, and Turkey even is a full member of NATO.
-

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Turkey has no business to be in the EU

-
Turkey needs to get far closer to the E.U. than in the past as now half the Mediterranean has the same association as Turkey. But as the E.U. has no requirement for Turkey while Turkey has a requirement for the E.U. it clearly is the business of Turkey to adjust things like minority rights etc.
-

Quoting Asturias (Reply 6):
Turkey is a sham of a country that is on the verge of collapse at any given time.

Turkey is NOT on the verge of collapse and is rather very strong, with a strong industry
-

Quoting Asturias (Reply 6):
If the EU ever decides to let in non-European countries, then perhaps Turkey could be seriously considered.

No, then Turkey will not be considered, as Turkey IS a European country
-

Quoting David L (Reply 13):
geographical issues.

let's not forget, that geographically, Malta is in Africa (south of Tunis) and Cyprus is in Asia.


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2433 times:

Well, well, well... if the spinmeister hasn't arrived. In a way this thread has now run its course.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
Turkey is a European country, Israel in a way as well. Morocco is a member of the Arab League, and together with Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan an E.U. associate.

How, pray tell, is Turkey a European country? How is Israel, in a way, a European country as well?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
no, it is not a completely different culture, it is similar to the cultures of the countries on the Balkans like Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo

How is it not a different culture? How is it similar to Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania and Kosovo?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
the Strategic Partnership and their Association Treaty are already in place, and Turkey even is a full member of NATO.

NATO membership is irrelevant to EU membership. Ireland, Austria, Finland and Sweden are not NATO members. France is only a partial member.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
Turkey needs to get far closer to the E.U. than in the past as now half the Mediterranean has the same association as Turkey. But as the E.U. has no requirement for Turkey while Turkey has a requirement for the E.U. it clearly is the business of Turkey to adjust things like minority rights etc.

I'm sure it is in the interest of Turkey to get far closer to the EU and although Turkey's aspirations towards that goal have been half-hearted and insufficient, that seems to be Turkeys general, half-hearted intent. Why have Turkey's actions been so disinterested? Whatever the reason, it has resulted in that Turkey is far from being qualified from becoming a member of the EU, were that ever to be seriously considered.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
Turkey is NOT on the verge of collapse and is rather very strong, with a strong industry

I say it is on the verge of collapse.  

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
No, then Turkey will not be considered, as Turkey IS a European country

How is it a European country?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
let's not forget, that geographically, Malta is in Africa (south of Tunis) and Cyprus is in Asia.

Let us not forget that geography isn't the most relevant factor when deciding whether a country is European or not.

saludos

Asturias

[Edited 2008-03-03 08:09:34]


Tonight we fly
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2424 times:



Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
I'm going to request people stop the religious whining. Sweden was admitted to the EU and there are less than 10% who considerthemselves Christian in any meaningful way in that country!

How is that religious whining? It's a fact that being predominantly Muslim is a barrier to entry. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but that's the truth. I'm not Muslim but if I were I think I would rather the EU just came out an admitted what was going on rather than skirting around the issue and using the possibility of EU membership as a carrot to guide the actions of Turkey in Iraq and elsewhere...

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):

I'm sorry, you're just grasping at straws, playing the 'religion' card and ignoring that Romania was far far FAR better qualified than Turkey will be in the foreseeable future.

Turkey is in terms of ideology, technology, military and broader outlook is more in line with the EU now than Romania is or was at time of entry to the EU. This too is a fact. The horrible treatment of gypsies in Eastern Europe has been glossed over yet any repression by the Turks is blasted by Brussels... Are you telling me that's a level playing field?

Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 11):
Romania was not qualified at all.

 checkmark 

Quoting Asturias (Reply 12):
OK, now that the religion card is out, you play the race card. Well done. Not going to help your argument one iota, but hey.

Actually I played the race card first but you chose to ignore it because you have totally misunderstood the issue at hand here.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14066 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2419 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 18):
Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
I'm going to request people stop the religious whining. Sweden was admitted to the EU and there are less than 10% who considerthemselves Christian in any meaningful way in that country!

How is that religious whining? It's a fact that being predominantly Muslim is a barrier to entry. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but that's the truth. I'm not Muslim but if I were I think I would rather the EU just came out an admitted what was going on rather than skirting around the issue and using the possibility of EU membership as a carrot to guide the actions of Turkey in Iraq and elsewhere...

What about if in future Albania and Bosnia want to join? Both countries are clearly within the geographical limits of Europe, but both have a predominantly Muslim population.

Jan


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2412 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 18):
How is that religious whining? It's a fact that being predominantly Muslim is a barrier to entry. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but that's the truth. I'm not Muslim but if I were I think I would rather the EU just came out an admitted what was going on rather than skirting around the issue and using the possibility of EU membership as a carrot to guide the actions of Turkey in Iraq and elsewhere...

That's religious whining because you're erroneously claiming that religion has anything to do with a nation's appliance to the EU. Religion is not standing in the way of Turkey's membership to the EU which has been made abundantly clear by the EU, which has never mentioned the dominating religion of any applicant country.

If you can demonstrate that the EU has ever made the condition that a country needs to be Christian to join, you have a point. Otherwise, it would only help your arguments to drop that religious-bias claim immediately.

I'll agree with you on that I think it is high time the EU comes clean and says in no uncertain terms that Turkey hasn't improved to any significant degree since it began applying to the EU and at this rate it will never be applicable for ascension to the Union.

In other words, tell them to stop applying until they fulfil EU membership qualifications. I agree that to keep a dialogue between the EU and Turkey only gives Turkey false hopes that will not be realized.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 18):
Turkey is in terms of ideology, technology, military and broader outlook is more in line with the EU now than Romania is or was at time of entry to the EU. This too is a fact. The horrible treatment of gypsies in Eastern Europe has been glossed over yet any repression by the Turks is blasted by Brussels... Are you telling me that's a level playing field?

No. Romania was and is in terms of ideology, technology, military and broader outlook more in line with the EU than Turkey was and is. That is a fact. That is why Romania is now a member of the EU and Turkey is not.

Your opinion goes right against reality. If you were right, then Turkey would already be a member of the EU. Which is it isn't and Romania is.

Gypsies have nothing to do with Romanian EU ascension. I don't see a reason to address that further.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 18):
Actually I played the race card first but you chose to ignore it because you have totally misunderstood the issue at hand here.

You played the race card first? OK, then. Good for you, because tactics like that only scuttle your argument. You must be proud of yourself.

saludos

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2412 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):

What about if in future Albania and Bosnia want to join? Both countries are clearly within the geographical limits of Europe, but both have a predominantly Muslim population.

I'm completely against it , as the Union is based on the Western - Christian way of being . Muslim countries don't have lost anything in the EU . The EU won't last very long if every country wants to join . It has to be based on commonalities and this commonalities are given between Germany - France, Austria , Spain even Poland but not with Bosnia of Turkey


User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14066 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2398 times:



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
I'm completely against it , as the Union is based on the Western - Christian way of being . Muslim countries don't have lost anything in the EU . The EU won't last very long if every country wants to join . It has to be based on commonalities and this commonalities are given between Germany - France, Austria , Spain even Poland but not with Bosnia of Turkey

I'm NOT a Christian, as is the majority of European population by now. The EU is NOT a christian club.

Albania and Bosnia are clearly European countries, within the accepted geographical boundaries of Europe (while the situation of Turkey, with a large part east of the Bosporus, can be argued about).

Jan


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2396 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
I'm NOT a Christian, as is the majority of European population by now. The EU is NOT a christian club.

Albania and Bosnia are clearly European countries, within the accepted geographical boundaries of Europe (while the situation of Turkey, with a large part east of the Bosporus, can be argued about).

Jan

But your Life and way of being is influenced by the Christian Religion as the western Values base on this Religion .

------------

In 20 years Turkey will have more Inhabitants than Germany ! Imagine the poorest country with the most Power ! No way !

Constantin


User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14066 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2393 times:



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 23):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
I'm NOT a Christian, as is the majority of European population by now. The EU is NOT a christian club.

Albania and Bosnia are clearly European countries, within the accepted geographical boundaries of Europe (while the situation of Turkey, with a large part east of the Bosporus, can be argued about).

Jan

But your Life and way of being is influenced by the Christian Religion as the western Values base on this Religion .

By the more than 500 year struggle to get the church out off politics. Thank you, very much.

Jan


25 Asturias : If Albania and Bosnia will apply, they will be evaluated according to the conditions of the EU when that time comes and they will be judged on their
26 LHStarAlliance : Please don't interpret strange things ... I mean the Union should base on that "Western Values" and not on the same Religion . The Muslim Religion ru
27 IliriBDL : This is called playing the religion card. You disagree with Turkey, Bosnia, or even Albania, entering the EU just because they're "muslim" majority c
28 ME AVN FAN : Turkey has its most important metropolis and much of its industry and its services even geographically on the European continent, and Turkey, just as
29 Post contains images Rara : If the EU was indeed founded on the principles you ascribe to it, then I wouldn't want anything to do with it. It's one possible way to describe Euro
30 Post contains images David L : It isn't in any way a European country. Eurovision is an entertainment organisation, not a political organisation. It's only the voting that's politi
31 Egmcman : Should not be because of it's human rights record & needs improve relations with the Greek sector of Cyprus.
32 LHStarAlliance : exactly ! The turk Government does not respect the Human Rights , and the Military has a way too strong role here (Though it may be good what they do
33 Oldeuropean : What Christian way of beeing? We had centuries of wars between the Christians, including the actual conflict in North Ireland. I as atheist say: Chri
34 MD11Engineer : But Turkey can always change this (and for the moment I see no way they can join the EU). The question thrown up here by LHStaralliance was if a coun
35 Post contains images Asturias : You say that geographical placement dictates that Turkey is European, but it doesn't. At the same time you see Cyprus, a European country, is not geo
36 Post contains images YOWza : That is a very important point! I think Bosnia would be allowed to join only because it would be blatantly obvious something was amiss if the other f
37 ME AVN FAN : of course not. So that both Cyprus which is geographically 100% in Asia as well as Anatolia are part of Europe. - Istanbul and Thracia are NOT "minus
38 Post contains links PROSA : According to this interesting line of argument, Canada would be an excellent candidate for EU membership, well except for the fact that it's a long wa
39 Post contains images Asturias : I have nothing to substantiate your claim other than.. your claim. Can you offer a single shred of anything that substantiates your outlandish claim?
40 Asturias : Ah yes, you see how geography doesn't dictate whether a country is European or not. For sure it has a fundamental affect, but it isn't the final word
41 ME AVN FAN : You refer to the land area. But Istanbul has a population of more than 10 millions, and the rest of Thracia is densily populated and so, European Tur
42 Post contains links MD11Engineer : Romania is now simply the poorest country in the EU with the lowest wages. This is why so many companies (e.g. Nokia) are relocating their factories
43 IliriBDL : Cyprus - 9,251 sq km Slovenia - 20,273 sq km (currently EU presidency) Malta - 316 sq km So are we making "area" one of the requirements now? (I didn
44 MD11Engineer : Turkey is not at war with the Kurdish population (which BTW has voted overwhelmingly for the moderate Islamic Conservative party of Erdogan, and whic
45 LOT767-300ER : This discussion is pointless. Hell will freeze over 100 times and I will drive a Honda before Turkey is allowed to join. When can we kick Israel out o
46 LHStarAlliance : never, it would be said that it's antisemitic so Hell will freeze 100000 Times before Israel is out of Uefa and Eurovision !
47 Post contains images Superfly : No. Most of Turkey is in Asia anyhow. The E.U. should dissolve and go back to independent nations as well. [Edited 2008-03-03 12:33:12]
48 Asturias : Yes I refer to the land area, which is why I indicated so in my post. I never said a large part of the Turkish population wasn't based in and around
49 Asturias : It is indeed currently the poorest EU country, which explains partially how its economy is growing this fast. Even so, Romania was very poor in 1989
50 Asturias : No - if you want an elaboration on that answer, you can read my post where you got your quote. Your question makes no sense in light of that and it i
51 Asturias : I don't know how to respond to that exactly.. other than saying you've been had. For all intents and purposes Turkey is at war with the Kurdish popul
52 Post contains images YOWza : Call it revisionism if you will but the reality is that poverty in Romania is being exploited by some to look north/northeast for help, not west. Wel
53 AM744 : Hasn´t the EU grown a lot, too fast? Do you, Europeans, feel this policy will pay in the long run?
54 Post contains images Asturias : North and Northeast of Romania you find Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. Are you suggesting that Romanians are being exploited by someone to look for hel
55 Asturias : Indeed it has and the EU cannot accept any more members for the foreseeable future. Applications to the EU have been terminated indefinitely accordin
56 Virgin744 : Here we go again.... This subject has been flogged to death so many times that the thread starter needs to seriously learn how to use the SEARCH funct
57 N229NW : I don't want to get sucked into a long tangential discussion and arguments like I did last time there was a thread on this subject (is seems by that n
58 Asturias : Many Roma emigrated from Europe to America, like so many Europeans did, to find a better future and new life in the new world. Roma still exist all o
59 Mortyman : It's 70 million ( or so ) inhabbitans strong country with different culture than Europe. it will hav enourmous power within the EU and that is what I
60 ME AVN FAN : Wrong. It makes a world of a difference. And it makes Turkey a European country. - It DOES affect it in so far as the Turkish leadership had to reali
61 Lewis : Apart from religion, Turkish culture is very similar to the modern Greek one.
62 Banco : A very interesting question. The form of the EU has been a struggle between those who wish for depth (e.g. Germany) and those who push for breadth (e
63 LHStarAlliance : Not everybody who has not the same opinion as you have is naive .. The People of Venezuela have ELECTED Chavez , we Germans could not deselect the Tu
64 Post contains images CXfirst : I will vote for letting Turkey in, we (Norway) won't be affected to much when it comes to trade and immigrants, but it will boost travel between the t
65 ME AVN FAN : - There at least WERE systematic government plans against them, for example one of the Swiss Federal Government in the framework of which their child
66 Toast : Yes, I support Turkey's candidacy. The gains far outweigh the potential problems. While there is no reasonable chance for Turkey to join the EU within
67 Asturias : On the contrary, spinning what I say doesn't make one squat of difference. It doesn't change fundamental facts. A minuscule geographic part of Turkey
68 Asturias : Does Greek culture has trouble teaching women to read? Seriously though, can you eloborate how the Turkish and Greek cultures are very similar. That
69 Post contains images Asturias : Actually, it's Austria with 81% against (2006) which is the country most strongly opposing Turkish membership. Somewhat ironically, Romania is the mo
70 Asturias : Indeed the EU is not a geographic construct. Dragging up Ceuda and Melilla (possible Canarias) and French Guinea to prove that point is interesting a
71 Airfoilsguy : If the turkey wants into the EU then let it in. Just don't discriminate when the ducks, chickens and fully laden sparrows want in as well.
72 ME AVN FAN : No real option. They of course HAVE lots of trade with the Arab World, with Central Asia, with Iran, with Pakistan and India, and with the Far East,
73 AM744 : I'm not surprised. Otomans and Austro hungarians never got along very well. Maybe there are still some open scars. Perhaps Turkey, Romania and other
74 Banco : Just the last thousand years or so of history. I don't really see how you can deny this, to be honest. OK, and you'd rather a hostile or unstable Tur
75 Asturias : Granted it isn't an option to completely move away from trade with the EU for Turkey, but it may be in Turkey's best interest to diversify more. The
76 Toast : Turkey is an ally of Israel. The Israeli air force trains in Turkey. But criticism is meted out when necessary, as it should be. The EU is a state of
77 Post contains images Banco : You could say the same for a lot of EU countries. Some of them have very low levels of non-EU trade. Besides, Britain is a perfect example of an EU m
78 Asturias : Yes, indeed? Examples please. I don't really see how you can *claim* this! You say there is a real cultural connection, something really European abo
79 Toast : Banco assumed, apparently erroneously, that you would have at least basic knowledge of the history of Byzantium and the Ottoman Empire. Please do you
80 Asturias : An ally of Israel isn't making claims like this: "PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who on Sunday said that Israel's attacks were killing "babies and civilian
81 David L : Europe is a geographic entity. If part of the main body of Turkey is geographically in Europe then it is European... by definition. If it doesn't fit
82 Banco : You could always go and read a book, you know. That Turkey has been part of European history for the last thousand years is little different to stati
83 LHStarAlliance : Yea we could also let the Australians , the Americans maybe also the Brazilians in ! And why not Fiji or Mozambique ?! Come on .. Then don't name it
84 Post contains images Asturias : Could I? Really! Countries primarily trading with each other in a free-trade association!?! That's *unheard* of. Honestly, I'd expect the largest par
85 Post contains images David L : I'm not sure what the point of that was. A significant part of Turkey is in Europe. It borders other European countries. The countries you named at r
86 Post contains links and images RobertNL070 : Ludicrous. http://www.coe.int/T/ES/Com/About_Coe/Member_states/default.asp A list of the Member States of the Council of Europe - in Spanish. You'll
87 Asturias : How droll.. not worthy of a reply. I asked for examples with Turkey and Europe and I get snide remarks instead of an answer - which apparently should
88 Lewis : Women had trouble reading in Greece but we've been members of the EU for so long that things have changed. But go to the smallest and most remote vil
89 LHStarAlliance : Asturias says the truth , there has never been an alliance between the EU-Turkey . And there has never been a "promise" of the EU to Turkey that they
90 Banco : Well, quite possibly. But since in that case we're talking about something that might well be a hundred or two hundred years hence, I was merely maki
91 LHStarAlliance : If this could happen in "hundred or two hundred" years , then Canada would be 51th State for 100 years now ! Constantin
92 Asturias : I understand what you are saying, but it isn't really that cut and dry. Many countries are on geographic borders, sometimes they are split in two. St
93 Banco : Only in goods and services - visibles. You are forgetting to include invisibles, which (unusually for most European countries) makes up almost half o
94 Banco : Turkey has been allied to different European nations throughout history. I don't understand what you are trying to suggest here. You do know that Tur
95 David L : Ah, you didn't say that. You said "Turkey has never been in an alliance with European countries". Well, if they don't particularly want in then the q
96 RobertNL070 : I repeat. The Council of Europe since 1949. Hmmm....moving the goalposts? Lame. The Nordic Alliance is not a pan-European alliance, it is a regional
97 MD11Engineer : Turkey was an allies with Prussia for almost 200 years. Actually the old Muslim cemetary in Berlin (right beside THF) was founded in the 18th century
98 Post contains links Asturias : Has Turkey really? No it hasn't. Turkey was founded in the 1920s. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire which had existed since about 1300 AD
99 Asturias : The CoE is nothing. They have no authority. no influence, no power, no mandate. My grandfather served for his country in the CoE. It's a bunch of eli
100 Banco : It is to anyone capable of some pretty basic reading. If you are going to engage in this debate, it is usually assumed by other participants that you
101 Banco : Oh, OK. We'll dismiss Germany too on the same basis then. That wasn't founded till the late nineteenth century. Oh, and Italy too. Bloody Garibaldi e
102 Asturias : Precisely. There has never been a promise. Besides since the 50s the entity Turkey has been applying for has taken some dramatic changes. I said alli
103 LHStarAlliance : Don't forget that Turkey don't wants to accept the Genocide they did some years ago ! I hope they never join ! Constantin
104 Post contains images RobertNL070 : Yes, very ..erm.. convincing
105 Asturias : Well basic reading comprehension is apparently not your forté. I said there wasn't any 'obvious' cultural ties between Turkey and Europe, whereas yo
106 Asturias : You're back to geography. The question isn't what countries are named or where precisely their borders are, but what cultural connections they have.
107 RobertNL070 : After a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, we've arrived at things cultural. Tell me, is Turkey culturally more distant to most EU member states than, say, Fi
108 Post contains links and images Asturias : More convincing than your claim that the CoE is anything. In fact very few even know it exists now adays. Here: read about this powerhouse for yourse
109 Asturias : Not at all, we didn't arrive at culture in any way or form. I just asked someone to define Europe. Some used geography, some culture.. maybe there ar
110 RobertNL070 : Whether or not the Council of Europe is a powerhouse is for me neither here nor there. That is something you brought up, not I. I only provided the C
111 David L : There isn't even a pan-EU culture so why must there be a pan-Turk-European culture before Turkey is admitted? I don't think anyone is arguing that th
112 RobertNL070 : Try something like: the European Union is an intergovernmental and supranational organisation of European states.
113 Asturias : That's a fine broad definition, but it relies on other definitions such as the definition of European. That's where people start losing track of this
114 RobertNL070 : (My emphasis) Please explain.
115 Asturias : As Toast and ME AVN FAN pointed out, Ceuta, Melilla, Canary Islands and Malta technically belong to the African continent. Cyprus belongs to the Asia
116 RobertNL070 : Yes, yes, I know all about the exceptions to the rule, but then you meant politically, and not, as you stated geographically. Time for bed, hasta lueg
117 Foxy : Has to be the first time i've ever heard a phrase coined by Lyndon Johnson a 'chav-like saying'
118 Post contains images Asturias : Pff.. Johnson got it from FDR who got it from Wilson who got it from Pierce who got it from Van Buren who got it from McCain. Seriously, it's the fir
119 SWISSER : Computer says No...Cough Cough... Let them join the US as the 52nd state, because of them we even have this discussion of a Euroturkey! Mmmm...turkey
120 Post contains images Banco : Only if you regard old English as vulgar and somehow inferior. Chaucer didn't think so, and neither do I. Only prudishness would, and a lack of aware
121 Post contains images L410Turbolet : After almost 90 years of the republic you still have more than 1 out of 5 females in Turkey illiterate and you call it a "success"??? I'd hate to see
122 ME AVN FAN : - The Genocide in question did not happen "some years ago" and not in the time of the Republic of Turkey, but between 1915 and 1917 in the days of th
123 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Just for the records, French Guinea became independent in 1958 as the Republic of Guinea. What you mean is Guyane Francaise or French Guyane (Guyana/
124 ME AVN FAN : There were also Polish troops in Iraq for quite some time. Should Poland now be invited to join the Arab League ? - I do not quite see what there sho
125 Post contains images David L : Only because their parent state is geographically in Europe or because they are geographically adjacent to Europe... and they meet other criteria as
126 Post contains images Asturias : Poland doesn't have Arabs at the border like Turkey. In fact the interests of Syria, Iran, Iraq and Turkey are closely intertwined. To claim there ar
127 Post contains images David L : There is another alternative. It might sound far fetched but bear with me... perhaps it was a mistake? Hmm... many people from outwith the EU know a
128 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : There ARE ties, but there are more ties between the Arab World on one side and Italy and France on the other, so that in whatever way you try to twis
129 Post contains images Asturias : You see, first you falsly claim that Turkey has nothing to do with the Arab world. I called you on that misinformation and all this time later you fi
130 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - No, I said that Spain is no longer a developing country and I said that Turkey is not near collapse - somebody above suggested a kind of "Council"
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
English Of The European Union posted Sat Jun 25 2005 03:47:21 by KiwiNanday
Need Opinions On The European Union posted Tue Feb 25 2003 21:58:58 by Pendrilsaint
Should Turkey Be A Member Of The EU? posted Sat Sep 11 2004 00:49:23 by Kl911
Should We Publish The Names Of Mass Killers posted Mon Dec 17 2007 16:04:44 by Stratosphere
People Who Should Be In The NFL HOF posted Thu Sep 20 2007 22:36:24 by HuskyAviation
People Who Should Be In The MLB HOF posted Thu Sep 20 2007 01:17:17 by N1120A
Do (or Should) Civilians Control The Military? posted Sat Oct 7 2006 00:00:08 by Connies4ever
Should Oz Host The Soccer World Cup? posted Tue Jun 27 2006 01:01:31 by Alessandro
What Is The European Country You Prefer More? posted Sat Jun 17 2006 16:45:32 by Koper
Undeclared: Should It Be The Norm? posted Tue Apr 4 2006 04:22:04 by AerospaceFan