ScarletHarlot From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 4673 posts, RR: 54 Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2492 times:
This is about three miles from my house - out in the boonies NE of Seattle. The same group set another couple of houses under construction on fire out here several years ago but nothing like this. This is massive.
The houses were all about 4200-4700sf and were fully furnished as model homes with high-end furnishings, appliances and decor. Fortunately nobody was living in them. They were Street of Dreams homes - they are open to the public for a fee for several weeks and they are furnished and decorated with the latest high-end trends. Past Streets of Dreams have been very ostentatious and this year's was a bit of an exception. The houses were a bit smaller and were definitely more green.
It is ironic that the ELF would choose this development to burn, when it is one that is moving in the right direction. It's not fully there, of course, but it does display a trend toward more environmental awareness. It is also ironic that by buring down these houses, the group caused pollutants to be released into the atmosphere and surrounding forest, part of the forest was burned, and resources were wasted. How is that environmentall friendly?
I have some understanding of why the group would do this - there are always groups that feel that their message is necessary and it is not being heard, so desperate measures have to be taken to make people hear. But not like this. Violence, vandalism, and arson are never the answer.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2473 times:
There are eco-terrorists out there, and this is a terrible example of extremism from the left. This is a free country. People do have the right to drive what they want, build what they want, and they should do so free from fear that just because they don't see eye to eye with ecoextremists, that they'll lose their property.
They can make their point without destroying property of others. In this case, I'm going to end up on the same side as L-188, with no equivocation, but so be it. These people are lunatics.
JCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2451 times:
I propose that when these losers are caught, they are promptly set on fire. The problem is that for some reason, finding these people is like hunting down Osama. These eco-terrorists, rarely, if ever, get caught. These terrorists blend in so well in a state like Washington though -- flannel-clad, gender-neutral, and vegetarian .
AC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2417 times:
Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 2): Ok so, "green" model homes are burned down by a so called "environmental" group because they aren't green?
I doubt they even realize rebuilding the homes will end with the consumption of even more resources and materials. Nevermind all the trees killed by the paperwork generated by the insurance companies and criminal investigations. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face.
AndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2362 times:
Quoting PROSA (Reply 9): Given the way the real estate market's been going, the developer might be better off with the houses gone.
Indeed, I would not be surprised to find out later that ELF had nothing to do with this. We have already had plenty of arson fires around California directly related to people trying to get rid of their money losing investments.
ScarletHarlot From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 4673 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2306 times:
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 10): I would not be surprised to find out later that ELF had nothing to do with this. We have already had plenty of arson fires around California directly related to people trying to get rid of their money losing investments.
It is a possibility. The burned houses have been sitting unsold since last summer. In prior years, they would often sell before the event was over. So far though the spotlight is on ELF.
AndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2244 times:
Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 11): The burned houses have been sitting unsold since last summer. In prior years, they would often sell before the event was over. So far though the spotlight is on ELF.
Holding costs for these large homes can run about $10K/month, w/o counting maintenance costs. Personally I did a little study here in the Sacramento market, and was shocked (to say the least) that about 80% of the very large homes here were built in the last 5 years. And these were 'speculative' homes, or homes that were built w/o a buyer available.
There are just not that many people in the world to absorb this quantity of mansions available.
Well, consider that these are showcase homes, and were built by multiple builders. I can't see five builders going through with such a plan - especially when these houses have won awards. I would think that if it was a builder they would torch a development that was less in the spotlight so they would be more likely to get away with it. In contrast, this is exactly the sort of development that would get high publicity for ELF. So to me, it seems most likely that it is ELF. But I cannot disregard your idea.
ZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2192 times:
These eco-terrorists need to stop. When I am in YVR I live in a very large house (by some standards) BUT because it was recently built we had the option of getting high end/engergy saving technology. It costs about the same to run out house as it did when we lived in a place that was around 1,500 square feet smaller. That house is around 10 years old now. The difference in technology over the last few years has been dramatic. These idiotic eco-terrorists should concentrate on things that actually affect this world, rather then petty little things.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14811 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2178 times:
Some years ago I passed our neighbouring village on the way back home from work. I noticed a huge smoke cloud and decided to investigate. Down a few streets I found a barn full of hay on fire, with the local voluntary fire brigade just spraying the neighbouring houses to prevent the fire from expanding, else they were standing there, eating sausages and drinking beer brought to them by some wives.
They were definitely not happy to see a stranger there, also the owner of the farm looked not really worried.
I assume (but have no proof) that the fire was laid on purpose for an insurance scam.
Anyway, having seen the dirty looks I received when I went there, I made myself scarce.
AndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2152 times:
The only house that was sale pending had the explosive device 'malfunction'...
"Hoffman said fire officials told him a fourth house was spared because an arson device inside it didn't go off. That house, Seattle Home Design's La Belle Fleur, recently went pending with a buyer, and would have been the first of the five to sell, he said"
Lobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2151 times:
Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 18): Look at all that firefighting foam - and that's only the most obvious pollutant!
Actually, AFFF (aqueous fire fighting foam) is non-hazardous, bio-degradable.
I think it's funny that they burn down five houses as a way of a "protest", yet the chemical reactions from the fire and the materials used surely did more damage to the environment then having the house there to be lived in.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13765 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2083 times:
Instead of burning down these houses, perhaps they should have broken in and lived in them. Still illegal, but get the point across about the crises in affordable housing. I do hope, but have doubts, that these terrorists - that's what they are - get long jail sentences in a Federal jail.
CastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2079 times:
Not to defend any particular group here, but most everyone here, except, apparently AndesSMF, has assumed that eco-terrorists are involved. How difficult would it be for disgruntled investors, losing $$$ hand over fist, to plant markers at the scene. Why was the next to sell spared? Perhaps some additional factual information is in order before we cast guilt? Hell no; this is just an internet forum.
All I'm saying is, apparently, people love to trust the media when it's convenient, and rail on it when it is not. Very well done.
Newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2068 times:
Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 23): Not to defend any particular group here, but most everyone here, except, apparently AndesSMF, has assumed that eco-terrorists are involved.
When the buildings are branded with the ELF initials and the law enforcement agencies believe it is them, it's good enough for me, especially considering their past behavior. Sure, it may come out that it wasn't them, but it's not like the people here were the ones that came to the ELF conclusion. And it was not just the media, but law enforcement and others involved who came to the ELF conclusion.
[Edited 2008-03-03 17:00:54]
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
: Let's face it, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck," is not typically bad advice. But I don't see that language in
: I agree with you completely that they are innocent until proven guilty, but it is unfair to hold an internet forum up to the same standards as a cour
: Well, I hold any discussion up to the same standard I use at any social gathering: Do I have anything in common with this person? Do I really want to