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Can I Be Proud Of Being German?  
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8721 times:

Hi guys !

Here in Germany we have a pretty big problem with our National Pride , in some way it's forbidden because of the Nazi Regime to show any form of National Pride ( Not by law - but by the Society) . if you see countries like the US or France with a very big national Pride ,
i find it sad that we Germans , don't have this "right" .

But I see it with myself .. I have problems with my conscience when I say I'm a proud German !

I remember the Soccer World cup , everywhere German Flags , but my Father refused to take a Flag into his hand , he was born during the 2WW , it was an impossible thing for him to show a pride for Germany !


What do non Germans think about German Pride , is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?And do you think Germans have good reasons to be proud , or is the History too fatal ?

Constantin

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8691 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

Absolutely. I think it is very important to be proud of your country and your fellow people.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
What do non Germans think about German Pride , is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?And do you think Germans have good reasons to be proud , or is the History too fatal ?

I am German myself and recently found out so I am very proud to have German pride and to show it I will change my flag over to germany.

Kinghunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8702 times:

I say be proud of it. The people who gassed 4,000,000 Jews at Auschwitz are the ones who should be ashamed, nobody blames you personally for that.

User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8701 times:

Yeah, you can be proud of being German, just make sure your pride doesn't include any religious or ethnic hatred.  Wink

Germans today dislike nationalism for obvious reasons, but I think really once the people who were born during or before WWII stop living Germans sense of pride towards their country will return.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21524 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8675 times:

There is nothing wrong about identifying with your (our) country, or expressing your appreciation for it.

I'm just rather suspicious of the term "pride" in this particular context, as it usually transitions seamlessly into chauvinism and nationalism. And we don't just have to look at the Third Reich to see that that's not a direction which actually does a country any good.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8672 times:

A clear yes on that question and a simple explanation for that, let's just behave normal-.

Normal means, people are proud of their country. We have every reason to, so just let's not worry too much.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8659 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
Can I Be Proud Of Being German?  

Lets rephrase that question Konstantin: Can the Germans be proud of you ?

[Edited 2008-03-08 07:54:48]

User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8632 times:



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
Hi guys !

Here in Germany we have a pretty big problem with our National Pride , in some way it's forbidden because of the Nazi Regime to show any form of National Pride ( Not by law - but by the Society) . if you see countries like the US or France with a very big national Pride ,
i find it sad that we Germans , don't have this "right" .

But I see it with myself .. I have problems with my conscience when I say I'm a proud German !

I remember the Soccer World cup , everywhere German Flags , but my Father refused to take a Flag into his hand , he was born during the 2WW , it was an impossible thing for him to show a pride for Germany !


What do non Germans think about German Pride , is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?And do you think Germans have good reasons to be proud , or is the History too fatal ?

Constantin

It's okay and normal to feel proud of your country. WW2 was a long time ago, and you weren't involved in it.

Don't be ashamed of it - being proud of your country doesn't equate to extremism or nationalism as in the old days.


User currently offlineAndrej From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1039 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8630 times:



Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 6):
Can the Germans be proud of you ?

 checkmark 

Seriously, why ask? You are not proud who you are? It is sad when you feel that you (as German) can not express your national pride. I may get flamed for this, but what happened 60+ years back should not stop you to be proud of your country. Germany has progressed since and I see no reason why there should not be German flags flying and people be proud to be German.

People should learn from the past so it never gets repeated, but be proud of your nation!

Having spend quite some time in the US, they are very proud of their nation. There are flags flying, signs and other media that make you feel proud to be an American. In the UK it is the same, people from England are proud to be English, people from Wales are proud Welsh and people from Scotland are proud to be Scottish. So why not to be proud German?

Andrej


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8632 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 1):
I am German myself

Ummm, except you've probably never been there, probably don't speak German and probably couldn't find it on a map   Gotta love Hyphen-Americans.  

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 3):
Germans today dislike nationalism for obvious reasons,

Everyone dislikes nationalism for obvious reasons. Germany has a particular past to deal with and that's hard, but as an object lesson in the perils of unbridled nationalism, Germany's history is unbeatable.

The concept of national pride is one I have trouble grasping. Being pleased to German, or American, or French, or whatever, because of the benefits it bestows makes a lot of sense, and so is being keen to share the belief that these benefits should be appreciated by others - but taking vicarious pride in the achievement of other people who happen by accident of birth to share the same nationality, is nonsensical. I am by birth English, and there is a lot about being English that I really like. I love the language, I find the history fascinating, I appreciate the quirky culture - but should I be proud of William Shakespeare, or Lord Nelson, or Winston Churchill ? I'm pleased they did what they did, for sure, but I personally had nothing to do with their achievements, and so to take pride would be misplaced.

So in answer to the poster - be pleased to be German, enjoy, appreciate and grow the wealth of culture that defines what it means to be German. And (if you feel you absolutely must) support the soccer team - just don't take it too seriously  

[Edited 2008-03-08 07:52:54]

User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8615 times:

Without a doubt you should be proud of your heritage and make the most of it, however

what is the first thing that comes to most peoples minds when they think of Germany ?


1) World Wars / Third Reich / Holocaust / Hitler

2) BMW / Mercedes / Chocolate Smile


User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8610 times:

You should be proud that you're German. Nothing wrong with that.

I am proud to have lived in Germany, to have family there, and to have German friends. If I had a choice to choose my nationality and Albanian was not available, the only other one that I would choose would be to be a Deutschlander.  Smile



delta.com
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8603 times:



Quoting CF188A (Reply 10):
Chocolate

Nah. Chocolate should be Swiss, or Finnish. Mmmmm Fazer.


User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8603 times:



Quoting CF188A (Reply 10):
Chocolate  Smile 

That should be Belgium  Wink


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3837 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8603 times:



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
I remember the Soccer World cup , everywhere German Flags , but my Father refused to take a Flag into his hand

In your profile you say your father is/was a diplomat. Isn't it part of a diplomat's job, by definition, to represent his country? Wouldn't that include identifying with one's flag / flying the flag on official occasions, like on events where foreign diplomats are invited?

Soren  santahat 



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8603 times:



Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 13):
That should be Belgium

An acceptible third option - but only for filled chocolates e.g. Leonidas or Godiva. Mmmm.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8600 times:



Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 6):
Lets rephrase that question Konstantin: Can the Germans be proud of you ?

That just made my day!  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21524 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8592 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 9):
Ummm, except you've probably never been there, probably don't speak German and probably couldn't find it on a map Gotta love Hyphen-Americans.

Fortunately you yourself are constitutionally immune to silly nationalistic stereotypes, as we can see...!  mischievous 

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 9):
Being pleased to German, or American, or French, or whatever, because of the benefits it bestows makes a lot of sense, and so is being keen to share the belief that these benefits should be appreciated by others - but taking vicarious pride in the achievement of other people who happen by accident of birth to share the same nationality, is nonsensical.

I would mostly subscribe to that view. I do appreciate and identify with the communities I'm a part of, but I also have a co-responsibility for those communities. "Pride" as such tends to amplify itself in any group, with the responsibility aspect increasingly getting trampled below.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 9):
So in answer to the poster - be pleased to be German, enjoy, appreciate and grow the wealth of culture that defines what it means to be German. And (if you feel you absolutely must) support the soccer team - just don't take it too seriously

Tell that to the english!


User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8591 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 15):
An acceptible third option - but only for filled chocolates e.g. Leonidas or Godiva. Mmmm.

Next time you are in Austria watch out for ZOTTER-Chocolate.....  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8587 times:



Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 18):
Next time you are in Austria watch out for ZOTTER-Chocolate.....

Will do. They're not the nasty marzipan ones with pictures of Mozart on them are they ? I don't like those  yuck .


User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8565 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
Will do. They're not the nasty marzipan ones with pictures of Mozart on them are they ? I don't like those   .

No, see here

http://www.zotter.at/4.html


we are a little bit off topic tough


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8546 times:



Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 6):
Lets rephrase that question Konstantin: Can the Germans be proud of you ?

I hope so .. ask me again in 50 years !

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 14):
In your profile you say your father is/was a diplomat. Isn't it part of a diplomat's job, by definition, to represent his country? Wouldn't that include identifying with one's flag / flying the flag on official occasions, like on events where foreign diplomats are invited?

Yea I understand . This seems strange also to me . But he refuses to show in any form a pride for his country .
Though he has been decorated for his job as Diplomat in every place he has been . For example with the Ordem Infante Dom Henrique in Portugal .

Even Presidents of Germany have said it :

Rau : I'm not proud of my country

Heinemann : Question : Do you love your country ?
Answer : No sir , I just love my Wife .


Constantin


User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8533 times:



Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 13):
That should be Belgium



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
Nah. Chocolate should be Swiss, or Finnish. Mmmmm Fazer.

german chocolate is still my fav Smile


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10938 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8508 times:

You should be proud of being German!

Think of all the famous good people Germany has brought to the world!
I will only quote a few.

Johann Sebastian Bach (and sons)
Ludwig van Beethoven
Johannes Brahms
Bertolt Brecht
Albrecht Dürer
Max Ernst
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Günter Grass
Hermann Hesse
Immanuel Kant
Karl Lagerfeld
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz
Martin Luther
Karl Marx
Felix Mendelsohn
Willy Messerschmidt (we are on A.net)
Friedrich Nietzsche
Carl Orff
Johann Pachelbel
Pope Benedict XVI Joseph Ratzinger
Claudia Schiffer
Friedrich Schiller
Arthur Schopenhauer
Albert Schweitzer
Richard Strauss
Richard Wagner
Ferdinand von Zeppelin (this is A.net)



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8507 times:



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
Even Presidents of Germany have said it :

Rau : I'm not proud of my country

Heinemann : Question : Do you love your country ?
Answer : No sir , I just love my Wife .

No surprise, they were both in the same party, Social Democrats. Heinemann was actually the first from that breed who became President. I am fair and credit them that they lived during the Third Reich which probably led them to such an - for a President of a country - totally unacceptable remark. If a future German President would say such non.sense, he'd have to step down. Sorry, wrong job.

BTW - since we are an aviation forum - FRA Terminal 1 was officially opened by Mr. Heinemann. The capacity then was 25 Million pax/p.a. . He brabbled something about such "gigantism" and really showed that he did not like what he was doing there. A real ..shole.

He later ran a supermarket in Terminal 1 on level 0. (naaahh, that's a joke)

Getting back to the question -in 2009 we will celebrate 60 years Federal Republic of Germany. The best state with the best constitution that ever existed on German soil. Yes, we can be proud of that.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
25 Baroque : No point, the ones who would listen do not need telling and the ones that need telling will not listen. For a.net I would have thought Junkers rather
26 Klaus : You're only embarrassing yourself here.
27 Csavel : Yeah you can and should be proud of being German, but also it has to be in the context of Germany's recent past. The pride shouldn't and probably woul
28 JGPH1A : Decent and good ? Yet to be proven, and in my opinion very highly doubtful. The man's a fascist.
29 Klaus : So true - for our hooligans as well!
30 PanHAM : No my freind, the SPD is always embarrassing itself. like in these days again in hesse. I was mobbed (the word was not used in 1958) by teachers of t
31 JAGflyer : Yes, Germany has a huge black mark for what happened during WWII but I do not hold it against people of German decent. If you want to be proud of who
32 Wolverine : I am german, and I'm not proud of it. I can't explain, but I can't identify with my country for some unknown reason..
33 OA260 : Yes you can be proud to be German. You have lots of good inventions and respected industries. If I buy something like an appliance for the house I alw
34 Flanker : Of course you can be proud of your country. Hell i am even proud of Germany and I'm not even German. Its a serious problem if you(or any other german
35 MadameConcorde : What makes you say that? I believe some of his entourage might be rather odd but himself?... He does not really look like he could be mean. He looks l
36 JGPH1A : Kind ? Really ? Some of his statements have been less than kind. Plus he is the ex-head of the Holy Inquisition. Anybody who volunteered for that job
37 Post contains images Braybuddy : I never really saw the point in patriotism, to be honest, but there's nothing wrong with being proud of your country if you like it, and its achieveme
38 Post contains images LHboyatDTW : that just made my day well at least they make some damn good beer Besides all the witty remarks, things in Germany have dramatically changed over the
39 ANCFlyer : Absolutely. But as has been said: That oughta be the question . . . .
40 Post contains images Klaus : Now that's not much of a challenge, really...!
41 Post contains images Braybuddy : Another incident which amused me was when we got talking to some Germans in a bar. My friend, like most Irish people after a few drinks, emphasised st
42 LHStarAlliance : And i have answered it already !
43 Rara : Regardless of the theoretical considerations: of the Germans I know that proclaim being "proud to be German", probably nine out of ten are utter knobh
44 Comorin : May I add: Albert Einstein Otto Hahn Werner Von Braun Max Planck Georg Ohm and Colonel Klink Seriously, I Iove the Bundesrepublik, having lived there
45 Delta767300ER : Yes, You can be proud of being German. Remember, Hitler was Austrian, not German. Although I strongly condemn the Nazi's for WW2, that was a long time
46 ExFATboy : I think it's entirely possible for a German to be proud of his country, particularly in light of the way Germany has responded over the decades to the
47 Post contains images Avianca : shame to both !! you forget me yes proud to be german and proud to be colombian!
48 Northwestair : As both of my Grandparents on my dad side coming from Poland I have a kind heart towards Poland and Eastern Europe. My Grandparents on my mother side
49 NIKV69 : Hell I can't blame you after Del Pierro's goal. I love Germany and it's people, culture, food etc. I know what Hitler did was horrible but I don't th
50 Baroque : Yes but a bit of a grizzle OA. "Bringing it up to forget" is a bit like a modern version of the Basil Fawlty line. Let us remember that the first to
51 CaptainJon : Growing up in the US, a lot of people were amazed to learn that I am Jewish with German background. They didn't think that was possible. I guess they
52 F.pier : You should be proud to be German, you are clever, well educated, organized and your country is very beautiful. The opposite of my state, Italy, full o
53 Dougloid : Klaus I knew there was a reason you were on my RU list.
54 Post contains images Metroliner : I think you should be proud. I'm not German, but after living for a year in Hamburg I felt proud to be in some way a part of such a functional societ
55 Farnborough24 : Not a criticism, as it's easy to think these things looking at what we read in the papers/saw in the Eastern Bloc (well, I didn't see, but have studi
56 Post contains images Sabena332 : I am very proud to be German and I wouldn't change my German passport for any other in this world. I really like it when I am abroad and people who no
57 Post contains images JCKastrup : Personally i think of Heineken and the liberal laws of the German autobahns when i think of Germany. But i guess that's just me A lot of great people
58 Slider : I’m well aware of, as most of us are, the history of Germany, even pre-WWII and in the context of the Holocaust. But the German people need to stop
59 SAS A340 : Be proud! every German that i have come in contact with have represented Germany very well, they are well mannered and polite!
60 Post contains images Toast : What if they actually like it? National pride, natural? I sure hope it isn't... Hey, I've been there - beautiful vineyards... I have, but there's alw
61 Post contains images Fiatstilojtd : When it comes to know-how, reliability etc. I agree Patrick, but when it comes to tourists, hell no, I would not be so sure about that, there are fam
62 Post contains images Toast : A Tyrolean hat with a feather won't fool anybody if you're still wearing socks with your sandals
63 Post contains images Signol : I think you'll find that Heineken is Dutch... There's a TV trailer on at the moment, featuring stand-up comedian Jack Dee. He says he's thinking of b
64 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : it basically should be a perfectly normal thing of a successful country. But of course, German nationalism abroad has the flavour of "Deutschland ueb
65 Slider : That's what I've heard! I'm heading over this year for sure.
66 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : the vineyards may be beautiful, but the wines are praiseworthy, like these - - sure things the Germans can be proud of !
67 MD11Engineer : Slider, The village is called Kluesserath (the u is a German Umlaut with two dots on top, if you don't have it on your keyboard, you can use "ue" as
68 CastleIsland : Sorry, I didn't have the time to read through all these replies. I see no reason to be proud of something that you didn't accomplish. You have absolut
69 Post contains images Slider : Thanks Jan! Man, I appreciate the advice...and for the spelling heads-up; I had seen it spelled both ways, but am glad for the clarification. Can't w
70 Toulouse : Of course it's not a problem, in fact for me it's a more serious problem that so many of you feel you can't be proud of your country. Germany is a gr
71 OHLHD : Definitely be proud of being a German. People tend to live in the past but look forward! Be careful with him as he only lately confessed that he was i
72 N1120A : You should absolutely be proud to be German. While you should not be proud of the past, the German of today has nothing to do with the Third Reich oth
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