LHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6353 times:
Hi guys !
Here in Germany we have a pretty big problem with our National Pride , in some way it's forbidden because of the Nazi Regime to show any form of National Pride ( Not by law - but by the Society) . if you see countries like the US or France with a very big national Pride ,
i find it sad that we Germans , don't have this "right" .
But I see it with myself .. I have problems with my conscience when I say I'm a proud German !
I remember the Soccer World cup , everywhere German Flags , but my Father refused to take a Flag into his hand , he was born during the 2WW , it was an impossible thing for him to show a pride for Germany !
What do non Germans think about German Pride , is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?And do you think Germans have good reasons to be proud , or is the History too fatal ?
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8556 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6339 times:
Absolutely. I think it is very important to be proud of your country and your fellow people.
Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter): What do non Germans think about German Pride , is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?And do you think Germans have good reasons to be proud , or is the History too fatal ?
I am German myself and recently found out so I am very proud to have German pride and to show it I will change my flag over to germany.
JCS17 From United States of America, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 8065 posts, RR: 43 Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6333 times:
Yeah, you can be proud of being German, just make sure your pride doesn't include any religious or ethnic hatred.
Germans today dislike nationalism for obvious reasons, but I think really once the people who were born during or before WWII stop living Germans sense of pride towards their country will return.
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20901 posts, RR: 55 Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6307 times:
There is nothing wrong about identifying with your (our) country, or expressing your appreciation for it.
I'm just rather suspicious of the term "pride" in this particular context, as it usually transitions seamlessly into chauvinism and nationalism. And we don't just have to look at the Third Reich to see that that's not a direction which actually does a country any good.
Here in Germany we have a pretty big problem with our National Pride , in some way it's forbidden because of the Nazi Regime to show any form of National Pride ( Not by law - but by the Society) . if you see countries like the US or France with a very big national Pride ,
i find it sad that we Germans , don't have this "right" .
But I see it with myself .. I have problems with my conscience when I say I'm a proud German !
I remember the Soccer World cup , everywhere German Flags , but my Father refused to take a Flag into his hand , he was born during the 2WW , it was an impossible thing for him to show a pride for Germany !
What do non Germans think about German Pride , is there a Problem for you when Germans say that they're proud ?And do you think Germans have good reasons to be proud , or is the History too fatal ?
Constantin
It's okay and normal to feel proud of your country. WW2 was a long time ago, and you weren't involved in it.
Don't be ashamed of it - being proud of your country doesn't equate to extremism or nationalism as in the old days.
Andrej From United Kingdom, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 814 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6262 times:
Seriously, why ask? You are not proud who you are? It is sad when you feel that you (as German) can not express your national pride. I may get flamed for this, but what happened 60+ years back should not stop you to be proud of your country. Germany has progressed since and I see no reason why there should not be German flags flying and people be proud to be German.
People should learn from the past so it never gets repeated, but be proud of your nation!
Having spend quite some time in the US, they are very proud of their nation. There are flags flying, signs and other media that make you feel proud to be an American. In the UK it is the same, people from England are proud to be English, people from Wales are proud Welsh and people from Scotland are proud to be Scottish. So why not to be proud German?
Everyone dislikes nationalism for obvious reasons. Germany has a particular past to deal with and that's hard, but as an object lesson in the perils of unbridled nationalism, Germany's history is unbeatable.
The concept of national pride is one I have trouble grasping. Being pleased to German, or American, or French, or whatever, because of the benefits it bestows makes a lot of sense, and so is being keen to share the belief that these benefits should be appreciated by others - but taking vicarious pride in the achievement of other people who happen by accident of birth to share the same nationality, is nonsensical. I am by birth English, and there is a lot about being English that I really like. I love the language, I find the history fascinating, I appreciate the quirky culture - but should I be proud of William Shakespeare, or Lord Nelson, or Winston Churchill ? I'm pleased they did what they did, for sure, but I personally had nothing to do with their achievements, and so to take pride would be misplaced.
So in answer to the poster - be pleased to be German, enjoy, appreciate and grow the wealth of culture that defines what it means to be German. And (if you feel you absolutely must) support the soccer team - just don't take it too seriously
IliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 15 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6242 times:
You should be proud that you're German. Nothing wrong with that.
I am proud to have lived in Germany, to have family there, and to have German friends. If I had a choice to choose my nationality and Albanian was not available, the only other one that I would choose would be to be a Deutschlander.
Birdwatching From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3587 posts, RR: 52 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6235 times:
Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter): I remember the Soccer World cup , everywhere German Flags , but my Father refused to take a Flag into his hand
In your profile you say your father is/was a diplomat. Isn't it part of a diplomat's job, by definition, to represent his country? Wouldn't that include identifying with one's flag / flying the flag on official occasions, like on events where foreign diplomats are invited?
Soren
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20901 posts, RR: 55 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6224 times:
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 9): Ummm, except you've probably never been there, probably don't speak German and probably couldn't find it on a map Gotta love Hyphen-Americans.
Fortunately you yourself are constitutionally immune to silly nationalistic stereotypes, as we can see...!
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 9): Being pleased to German, or American, or French, or whatever, because of the benefits it bestows makes a lot of sense, and so is being keen to share the belief that these benefits should be appreciated by others - but taking vicarious pride in the achievement of other people who happen by accident of birth to share the same nationality, is nonsensical.
I would mostly subscribe to that view. I do appreciate and identify with the communities I'm a part of, but I also have a co-responsibility for those communities. "Pride" as such tends to amplify itself in any group, with the responsibility aspect increasingly getting trampled below.
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 9): So in answer to the poster - be pleased to be German, enjoy, appreciate and grow the wealth of culture that defines what it means to be German. And (if you feel you absolutely must) support the soccer team - just don't take it too seriously
LHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6178 times:
Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 6): Lets rephrase that question Konstantin: Can the Germans be proud of you ?
I hope so .. ask me again in 50 years !
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 14): In your profile you say your father is/was a diplomat. Isn't it part of a diplomat's job, by definition, to represent his country? Wouldn't that include identifying with one's flag / flying the flag on official occasions, like on events where foreign diplomats are invited?
Yea I understand . This seems strange also to me . But he refuses to show in any form a pride for his country .
Though he has been decorated for his job as Diplomat in every place he has been . For example with the Ordem Infante Dom Henrique in Portugal .
Even Presidents of Germany have said it :
Rau : I'm not proud of my country
Heinemann : Question : Do you love your country ?
Answer : No sir , I just love my Wife .
MadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10347 posts, RR: 40 Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6140 times:
You should be proud of being German!
Think of all the famous good people Germany has brought to the world!
I will only quote a few.
Johann Sebastian Bach (and sons)
Ludwig van Beethoven
Johannes Brahms
Bertolt Brecht
Albrecht Dürer
Max Ernst
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Günter Grass
Hermann Hesse
Immanuel Kant
Karl Lagerfeld
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz
Martin Luther
Karl Marx
Felix Mendelsohn
Willy Messerschmidt (we are on A.net)
Friedrich Nietzsche
Carl Orff
Johann Pachelbel
Pope Benedict XVI Joseph Ratzinger
Claudia Schiffer
Friedrich Schiller
Arthur Schopenhauer
Albert Schweitzer
Richard Strauss
Richard Wagner
Ferdinand von Zeppelin (this is A.net)
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
Heinemann : Question : Do you love your country ?
Answer : No sir , I just love my Wife .
No surprise, they were both in the same party, Social Democrats. Heinemann was actually the first from that breed who became President. I am fair and credit them that they lived during the Third Reich which probably led them to such an - for a President of a country - totally unacceptable remark. If a future German President would say such non.sense, he'd have to step down. Sorry, wrong job.
BTW - since we are an aviation forum - FRA Terminal 1 was officially opened by Mr. Heinemann. The capacity then was 25 Million pax/p.a. . He brabbled something about such "gigantism" and really showed that he did not like what he was doing there. A real ..shole.
He later ran a supermarket in Terminal 1 on level 0. (naaahh, that's a joke)
Getting back to the question -in 2009 we will celebrate 60 years Federal Republic of Germany. The best state with the best constitution that ever existed on German soil. Yes, we can be proud of that.
Buten und binnen, wagen un winnen
25 Baroque: No point, the ones who would listen do not need telling and the ones that need telling will not listen. For a.net I would have thought Junkers rather
27 Csavel: Yeah you can and should be proud of being German, but also it has to be in the context of Germany's recent past. The pride shouldn't and probably woul
28 JGPH1A: Decent and good ? Yet to be proven, and in my opinion very highly doubtful. The man's a fascist.
30 PanHAM: No my freind, the SPD is always embarrassing itself. like in these days again in hesse. I was mobbed (the word was not used in 1958) by teachers of t
31 JAGflyer: Yes, Germany has a huge black mark for what happened during WWII but I do not hold it against people of German decent. If you want to be proud of who
32 Wolverine: I am german, and I'm not proud of it. I can't explain, but I can't identify with my country for some unknown reason..
33 OA260: Yes you can be proud to be German. You have lots of good inventions and respected industries. If I buy something like an appliance for the house I alw
34 Flanker: Of course you can be proud of your country. Hell i am even proud of Germany and I'm not even German. Its a serious problem if you(or any other german
35 MadameConcorde: What makes you say that? I believe some of his entourage might be rather odd but himself?... He does not really look like he could be mean. He looks l
36 JGPH1A: Kind ? Really ? Some of his statements have been less than kind. Plus he is the ex-head of the Holy Inquisition. Anybody who volunteered for that job
37 Braybuddy: I never really saw the point in patriotism, to be honest, but there's nothing wrong with being proud of your country if you like it, and its achieveme
38 LHboyatDTW: that just made my day well at least they make some damn good beer Besides all the witty remarks, things in Germany have dramatically changed over the
39 ANCFlyer: Absolutely. But as has been said: That oughta be the question . . . .
40 Klaus: Now that's not much of a challenge, really...!
41 Braybuddy: Another incident which amused me was when we got talking to some Germans in a bar. My friend, like most Irish people after a few drinks, emphasised st
43 Rara: Regardless of the theoretical considerations: of the Germans I know that proclaim being "proud to be German", probably nine out of ten are utter knobh
44 Comorin: May I add: Albert Einstein Otto Hahn Werner Von Braun Max Planck Georg Ohm and Colonel Klink Seriously, I Iove the Bundesrepublik, having lived there
45 Delta767300ER: Yes, You can be proud of being German. Remember, Hitler was Austrian, not German. Although I strongly condemn the Nazi's for WW2, that was a long time
46 ExFATboy: I think it's entirely possible for a German to be proud of his country, particularly in light of the way Germany has responded over the decades to the
47 Avianca: shame to both !! you forget me yes proud to be german and proud to be colombian!
48 Northwestair: As both of my Grandparents on my dad side coming from Poland I have a kind heart towards Poland and Eastern Europe. My Grandparents on my mother side
49 NIKV69: Hell I can't blame you after Del Pierro's goal. I love Germany and it's people, culture, food etc. I know what Hitler did was horrible but I don't th
50 Baroque: Yes but a bit of a grizzle OA. "Bringing it up to forget" is a bit like a modern version of the Basil Fawlty line. Let us remember that the first to
51 CaptainJon: Growing up in the US, a lot of people were amazed to learn that I am Jewish with German background. They didn't think that was possible. I guess they
52 F.pier: You should be proud to be German, you are clever, well educated, organized and your country is very beautiful. The opposite of my state, Italy, full o
53 Dougloid: Klaus I knew there was a reason you were on my RU list.
54 Metroliner: I think you should be proud. I'm not German, but after living for a year in Hamburg I felt proud to be in some way a part of such a functional societ
55 Farnborough24: Not a criticism, as it's easy to think these things looking at what we read in the papers/saw in the Eastern Bloc (well, I didn't see, but have studi
56 Sabena332: I am very proud to be German and I wouldn't change my German passport for any other in this world. I really like it when I am abroad and people who no
57 JCKastrup: Personally i think of Heineken and the liberal laws of the German autobahns when i think of Germany. But i guess that's just me A lot of great people
58 Slider: I’m well aware of, as most of us are, the history of Germany, even pre-WWII and in the context of the Holocaust. But the German people need to stop
59 SAS A340: Be proud! every German that i have come in contact with have represented Germany very well, they are well mannered and polite!
60 Toast: What if they actually like it? National pride, natural? I sure hope it isn't... Hey, I've been there - beautiful vineyards... I have, but there's alw
61 Fiatstilojtd: When it comes to know-how, reliability etc. I agree Patrick, but when it comes to tourists, hell no, I would not be so sure about that, there are fam
62 Toast: A Tyrolean hat with a feather won't fool anybody if you're still wearing socks with your sandals
63 Signol: I think you'll find that Heineken is Dutch... There's a TV trailer on at the moment, featuring stand-up comedian Jack Dee. He says he's thinking of b
64 ME AVN FAN: it basically should be a perfectly normal thing of a successful country. But of course, German nationalism abroad has the flavour of "Deutschland ueb
65 Slider: That's what I've heard! I'm heading over this year for sure.
66 ME AVN FAN: the vineyards may be beautiful, but the wines are praiseworthy, like these - - sure things the Germans can be proud of !
67 MD11Engineer: Slider, The village is called Kluesserath (the u is a German Umlaut with two dots on top, if you don't have it on your keyboard, you can use "ue" as
68 CastleIsland: Sorry, I didn't have the time to read through all these replies. I see no reason to be proud of something that you didn't accomplish. You have absolut
69 Slider: Thanks Jan! Man, I appreciate the advice...and for the spelling heads-up; I had seen it spelled both ways, but am glad for the clarification. Can't w
70 Toulouse: Of course it's not a problem, in fact for me it's a more serious problem that so many of you feel you can't be proud of your country. Germany is a gr
71 OHLHD: Definitely be proud of being a German. People tend to live in the past but look forward! Be careful with him as he only lately confessed that he was i
72 N1120A: You should absolutely be proud to be German. While you should not be proud of the past, the German of today has nothing to do with the Third Reich oth
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