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French Minister Says The Magic Is Over For The US  
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3538 times:

Well , first of all we do not believe in Magic.. except if his is last name is Johnson... 2nd .. we just bought $40 billion worth of your airplanes .. now would be a good time to STFU ... Me To ...


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,337410,00.html


You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3526 times:

Just another damn coward. More and more dem talking points. Im surprised hes not over here campaigning with them.


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4824 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3522 times:

Whilst the USA is in deep sh*t, France isn't exactly in great shape itself....
hmmm let me see... riots in France every few months about one thing or another, a rapidly aging population, large national debt, out of control immigration particularly from Africa causing all sorts of integration issues (a cause of many of the beforementioned riots), ageing nuclear reactors, etc



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3508 times:

The people of the world still have to peddle their wares somewhere, and it's the US as the biggest shopping mall in the world.

So, they can crow about the downfall of America, but if the US does fall, then France and all the others will be sucked down with us.

-Copa


User currently offlineGreggarious From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3490 times:

Oh, please! The magic's just begun!



User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

I don't suppose any of you posters have bothered to read what he actually said. He makes a valid point - the US' reputation abroad has been very badly damaged by the Bush presidency, and it will take some real spadework from whoever is next to get it back. He also expresses doubt that it will ever reach the same level of respect and admiration that it had before. That's a debatable point, but he might not be entirely wrong. The world is a different place now - the world may have been happy before with the US as sole superpower, but after Bush the world seems to prefer the notion of a multipolar world, where no one country has all the power. Rightly or wrongly, that's how it is. The other "poles" are not exactly paragons of virtue either - Russia, China - so as a European I'd be pleased to see the EU step up as a fourth "pole" to balance things out. As a multi-cultural community of established, fairly prosperous, broadly peaceful and above all free democracies, we have an example to set to the world, if nothing else.

User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3356 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
don't suppose any of you posters have bothered to read what he actually said.

Aaaa shucks gomer ... we plum forgot to do the readin part.  Big grin

I guess our reputation would be better if Saddam was still in power .... oh well maybe he is right after all.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

"I think the magic is over," Kouchner told the International Herald Tribune. "It will never be as it was before."

"He added that, although it will take time, the new president will have “many means to re-establish the image” of a country whose reputation is suffering."


This'll just prove (to anyone who didn't already know) how bloody old I am. But I began visiting France as a schoolboy in 1958, and was surprised (and offended) by the hostility I often encountered as soon as I began speaking with what they thought was an English accent; even though my French was reasonably good in those days. Later, I found that that hostility was nothing compared to the hostility that American visitors had to put up with at that time.

It soon dawned on me why the French were so uptight - they resented the fact that they had surrendered within a few weeks of the hard part of WW2 beginning, and therefore strongly disliked the British, who had (illogically, from a Frenchman's viewpoint) gone on fighting; and the Americans, who had provided a lot of the 'horsepower' necessary to liberate France and the rest of Occupied Europe. After a while France just became, for me, the unwelcoming place that I had to traverse to reach sensible, welcoming countries like Belgium, Holland, and Germany.

Later on I married a girl who loved France and had some happier times visiting it - especially in the South of France. I really thought, by say the 1980s, that the French resentment about WW2 had faded into history. But now, with this report, here it is again.

Couldn't understand the throwback to the 1950s at first - until I looked M. Kouchner up.

"Bernard Kouchner (born November 1, 1939 in Avignon) is a French politician, diplomat, and doctor. He is co-founder of Doctors Without Borders (MSF) and Doctors of the World. He is currently the French minister of Foreign and European Affairs in the right-wing Fillon government, although he was considered in the past to be a leftist politician."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kouchner

So the bugger's even older than I am, and was brought up in the aftermath of WW2, just as I was. Don't worry about him, guys - he was brought up to hate the 'Anglo-Saxons,' and above all the Americans, because of France's shameful surrender way back in 1940. I'd be very surprised if he's in any way typical of the majority of French people today.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3347 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 6):
I guess our reputation would be better if Saddam was still in power

Or perhaps if you'd addressed the real villains of the piece, the house of Saud. But I forgot, they're bbq-buddies from back in Crawford. Silly me.

Iraq was a side-show, nothing more. Yes Saddam was a bastard, but he'd been a bastard for at least 20 years, but at least back in the beginning he was YOUR bastard against the Axis-Of-Even-More-Evil, Iran. O tempora, o mores.

Are you even remotely surprised that the world has grown somewhat cynical regarding who the US regards as "enemies of freedom" ?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3321 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

What planet have you been on AGM. The guy is right. This president has so damaged our reputation that whomever is President will have a hard time restoring our good name. And this Minister may be right-we may never be seen as we once were. Bush has simply done everything wrong on the foreign policy front, and left our good name in tatters, and our reputation damaged for decades.

Maybe you should STFU, and start living in the real world.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 6):
I guess our reputation would be better if Saddam was still in power .... oh well maybe he is right after all.

I thought the war in Iraq was about WMD? Remember those-that was THE REASON, wasn't it? But I guess we have the right to overthrow any leader, vile as he was, simply because we can, right AGM?

And, guess what? Knowing what we know now, that Saddam's WMD program was only a figment of his imagination, we would have been better off not going in there-5000 young Americans would still be alive; our foreign policy wouldn't be the laughingstock of the world; our president wouldn't have an approval rating of 30%. Seems to me, we'd have been WAY better off had we never gone on this damn fool of an adventure.

But go blame the French. That makes you feel better.


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3305 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
2nd .. we just bought $40 billion worth of your airplanes

When do the Americans understand that Airbus is not a French company?  Yeah sure

You really better should read more instead of grumbling about what you couldn't understand, because you don't want to deal with it.

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

I have read the article yesterday so instead of getting the second-hand source from Fox News, why not read the actual and complete thing? You will get a much better picture of what he was saying:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/12/europe/france.php

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
Don't worry about him, guys - he was brought up to hate the 'Anglo-Saxons,' and above all the Americans

I would suggest going a little beyond wikipedia to determine what his stances are and who the guy is. I believe you have misjudged him. I have been living in France for quite some time and, as pictured by the journalist of the IHT, Kouchner is one of the strongest supporters of the US in France (4th paragraph).


User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3747 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

Oh, great, another article about the French on Fox news...  

I might seem obviously biased, but I agree with Flacon84. The image of the US in the world is shot.

Kouchner does not mention anything about economic situation, or the state of the diplomatic situation between the US and France. He is merely stating the evident result of 8 years of mostly misguided foreign affairs policy of the Bush government (surely the majority of US citizens on here would agree?).

I know any thread the French on here will generally result in a rally of voices against the 'cheese eating surrender monkeys', as Jeremy Clarkson affectionately calls us, but then I wonder: Why are so many people offended by what a relatively small European country, about a third the size of Texas and an economy hardly more prolific than that of California, have to say about them?

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
they can crow about the downfall of America

No 'they' don't, on the contrary, 'they' hope that America's influence and relevance in international affairs will be restored and that it's diplomacy gets back on track as it is and will remain a primordial player on the global scene. In my opinion, the result of the masquerade of a foreign policy is what has divided the western world instead of speaking of one voice against the rising influence of 'objectable' un-democratic hard-lined governments such as Iran, Syria and many others who happen to be on neutral terms with or get the favors of Russia and China.

edit: d#mn UBB code...

[Edited 2008-03-14 07:27:08]


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3265 times:

Actually it doesn't matter that he is French, because he just expressed what the large majority in the world thinks about this issue.

The reputation of the US was/is demolished by the current government. The successor will have much to do.

Axel

[Edited 2008-03-14 07:37:47]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2148 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3247 times:



Quoting Greggarious (Reply 4):
Oh, please! The magic's just begun!

Arrested Development is pure genius Big grin

That quote was incredibly good!!

asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

Magic? France? It's still there. Just east of Paris.



User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3238 times:

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 13):
Actually it doesn't matter that he is French, because he just expressed what the large majority in the world thinks about this issue.

And you speak for the rest of the world and know what they're thinking? Good thing you're on the job there Axle, help us rude frontiersmen and backwoodmen with our table manners and all that.

Has it occurred to any of you putzes that he's preaching to the choir?

Hey Bernie. Got your magic right here. Hangin.



[Edited 2008-03-14 07:50:04]

[Edited 2008-03-14 07:53:04]

User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3231 times:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 15):
Magic? France? It's still there. Just east of Paris.

Magic? Disneyland? East of Paris? No, it's a flop! Big grin

(And exorbitant expensive)

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3199 times:



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 16):
And you speak for the rest of the world and know what they're thinking? What a fracking genius you must be.

 Yeah sure

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,461517,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5077984.stm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/09/18/AR2006091801414.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,540775-2,00.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/15/world/main649513.shtml
I don't have the time to find more for you.  Big grin

Behind what moon are you living? Wake up YOU fracking genius!  rotfl 

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3193 times:



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 17):
No, it's a flop!

Disney's advertising slogan is "Come See the Magic of Disney." You must not know that.


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3180 times:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
Magic of Disney

The concept of "magic" underlies very different interpretations.  Smile

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3173 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
I don't suppose any of you posters have bothered to read what he actually said.

Looks as if they did not. Both Nav and Jonathon managed to find where it came from.

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 11):
I have read the article yesterday so instead of getting the second-hand source from Fox News, why not read the actual and complete thing? You will get a much better picture of what he was saying:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/12/europe/france.php

I think that Navs reaction is a bit of the Entente not so cordiale. I was in the UK at that time too and I do not remember any of that feeling - must have been different in the deep south. I can see why some are reaching for the gun to shoot the messenger, or the chain to flush his ideas down the gurgler. Alas the time for this sort of thing has not, as yet arrived:

"He then carefully couched this statement by noting that, in general, "we have to talk with our enemies," and that Fatah, which controls the West Bank, "always said they were in favor" of unity talks with Hamas. But after Hamas routed Fatah forces from Gaza in June, the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah, has refused to deal with Hamas, which he accused of committing a coup. Kouchner, of the Socialist left in France, stirred controversy when he accepted the offer from President Nicolas Sarkozy, leader of the Gaullist center-right, to join his government last May.
.........
But he conceded that practicing the new diplomacy - which he defined as being action that is more practical, multifaceted and realistic than mere protocol calls and visits - "is very difficult, and very time-consuming." "

Eventually, we will all have to move past the catch cry of "we will not negotiate with terrorists" when all the world knows that we will and we have to, and of course a new administration might be willing to concede that diplomacy is time consuming.

It is not the right place for the blinkered vision of the neo-cons and "efforts" of the dilettantes.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3155 times:



Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 11):
You will get a much better picture of what he was saying:

Thanks, Jonathan-I - you're probably half-right. Or even more than half; I did fly off the handle a bit.

What got me though was his pessimism in suggesting that it will take a long time for the USA to redeem itself. There are people in the USA who say that it should maybe be less of a republic and more of a democracy - and I tend to agree with them, Americans often pay a high price for a system that hands very wide powers to a president who (given even reasonable luck) can exercise them 'without let or hindrance' for the next eight years.

But that system has the advantage that when things DO change, those 'very wide powers' ensure that they can change quickly. Heaven knows which of the three current presidential contenders will finish up being sworn in next January, but one thing we know already is that they are all a damn sight more intelligent than the idiot Dubya. So we can all be reasonably confident that US foreign policy will be a lot more sensible and constructive from January 2008 on.

And the other thing to remember is the sheer energy of the United States, the speed with which any such changes can be implemented. That's one of the advantages of a republic, as opposed to a true democracy. My favourite quote on that subject is probably Churchill's 1941 recollection of the words of Sir Edward Grey, the night after Pearl Harbor:-

"Silly people - and there were many, not only in enemy countries - might discount the force of the United States. Some said they were soft, others that they would never be united. They would fool around at a distance. They would never come to grips. They would never stand blood-letting. Their democracy and system of recurrent elections would paralyze their war effort. They would be just a vague blur on the horizon to friend or foe. Now we should see the weakness of this numerous but remote, wealthy, and talkative people. But I had studied the American Civil War, fought out to the last desperate inch. American blood flowed in my veins. I thought of a remark which Edward Grey had made to me more than thirty years before‹that the United States is like "a gigantic boiler. Once the fire is lighted under it there is no limit to the power it can generate."

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=280



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3132 times:



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 16):
And you speak for the rest of the world and know what they're thinking?

The former - no.
The latter - yes.

It is not a secret at all for those who keep their eyes and ears open.

I cannot recommend you enough to acquaint yourself with the Pew Global Attitudes Project, which regularly conducts worldwide surveys, with the attitudes towards the USA and their policies featuring prominently:

Pew Global Attitudes Project: America’s Image in the World: Findings from the Pew Global Attitudes Project

Just one excerpt:



And the more detailed suveys clearly show that it has nothing to do with "anti-americanism" springing up for no particular reason; The resentment of the US policies is clearly rooted in the policies and attitudes of the Bush administration. The USA as such is generally held in significantly higher regard but the Bush administration has managed to severely tarnish the previously rather positive image of the country.


Regarding Kouchner's statement, I must agree up to a point - the USA had established itself as the legitimate and thus uncontested leader of the free world during and after WWII.

The Bush administration has managed to destroy that legitimacy in the eyes of the world; And as a consequence the exceptional position the USA once enjoyed will most probably not be recoverable after it had been abused to the extent we've seen.

The world has changed. And unfortunately 9-11 as a chance for worldwide unity in a common purpose has been thrown away for the illusion of absolute global domination without any accountability.

Extremely unfortunate, and the reason why the USA will probably never again enjoy the almost unconditional support they once had.


User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4681 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

I'll have to remember this the next time I'm making a product for a French customer, like I'm currently doing at this time...
 Yeah sure



"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
25 Post contains links and images Oldeuropean : And guess what? The same applies to the opinion in the US. From a BBC survey from January 2007: Also in the USA the amount of those, which see their
26 Post contains images Aerobalance : Notice my smiley - No worries, business as usual for me.
27 Post contains images Oldeuropean : Sorry, I've misunderstood your post. Axel[Edited 2008-03-14 09:52:50]
28 Post contains images AGM100 : Well brother when we are doing FMC or post mod bite test and checks on A330'S ... guess where we have to call for tech pubs SB's...and test tools if
29 Baroque : Noting your smiley (although perhaps not entirely understanding it!!) it is interesting to analyse the possible sentiment. If you were the Administra
30 Post contains images Oldeuropean : Yes. BTW. the veto of Dubjaa aginst the Anti-Torture-Bill wasn't very helpful to improve the reputation. A country, where torture is officially permi
31 AGM100 : The only reason it is a issue is because the question has been asked directly of our government. Has anyone asked the French government the same ques
32 Copaair737 : The French would all be eating sauerkraut and speaking German in Paris right now if the US hadn't saved France from the Nazis.
33 Post contains images Oldeuropean : Oh yes, this is a wise argument for torture. (I would await this from people of the middle ages) I hate to repeat myself, but - You really better sho
34 Copaair737 : If France, Germany, UK, etc. were as powerful as the US, they'd be doing the exact same things. Instead of the US-bashers we see so often, we'd see Fr
35 Dougloid : Klaus, I was talking to Axle, not you. Rest assured when I have something to say to you, you shall hear it.
36 AsstChiefMark : I thought we bashed them all the time anyway. The surrender and run thing is a popular French stereotype in the USA. That and mimes.
37 Copaair737 : They don't? They've caused most of the messes we've been in. Dividing up the Middle East, Vietnam, WW2, etc.
38 Dougloid : Axle, I think you better head on over to Toulouse and 'splain that to the fellows who are going to build the KC45-if Kouchner didn't tank that deal f
39 AGM100 : I deal with it everyday man .... Answer my question ... Got a better leader for the freeworld ? Germany ? Im cool with that , I love Germany .. Franc
40 Banco : Pfft. Been there, done that, got the T shirt....
41 Klaus : No, we don't. And we can't. Precisely for these reasons. In our country's name people have been denied due process, people have been tortured and peo
42 AGM100 : You bet it is Klaus ... and I always appreciate your arguments. I just didn't like the tone of OldEuropean. I have said before on here that I do not
43 Post contains images Dougloid : How did we get from the musings of a digestive endoscopist with too much time on his hands to the end of the world as we know it? So many bowels, so
44 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - I cannot quite see what you are upset about. Dr Kouchner simply gave a very good analysis of the situation. - - Nothing of a "coward" but as usual
45 Post contains images Klaus : Your response was not chosen very well, then... The fact that president Bush has just made torture an official policy of the USA can hardly be "blown
46 Post contains images Dougloid : Not forgotten around here, if it wasn't for the Louisiana Purchase we'd all be speaking French here. Come to think of it a lot of the place names her
47 AGM100 : The generation that at times had to shoot every other prisoner to get the location of the enemy and imprisoned whole populations because they had sla
48 Falcon84 : For what, and for how long? For World War II? You still want them fawning over us for that. 60 years ago. They showed their gratitude to us for that,
49 Banco : No, it wasn't. Not at any point during which the British were a major power. France was hemmed in by British naval strength, and after 1815 it had ov
50 RobertNL070 : Maybe you should return the favour and thank the French. Does Yorktown ring a bell?
51 Banco : Unfortunately, most Americans don't realise that their War of Independence, vitally important to them, was in fact a relatively unimportant part of a
52 Toulouse : slight exageration me thinks, and that's coming from somebody "living" in France. just as safe on 99% of streets here as any other stable country. Pr
53 RwSEA : It would be, and we would be as safe as we are today, and about 100,000 people would still be alive.
54 AGM100 : No.!... for our technological , business and financial cooperation with them. I dont ask the French to thank us for any thing to do with WWII . I jus
55 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : so that, when you travel to France, you have to put your state-flag on everything ! - - You are right in regard to actual facts, but totally and abso
56 Post contains images Klaus : So your presumption is that all us evil europeans were just looking for an opportunity to harm the USA and the totally bogus Iraq invasion was merely
57 Banco : Oh, I see what you are getting at. I thought you were talking about the facts not the perception. Apologies.
58 AGM100 : No one said evil Klaus ,, its business and power and as I see it a normal path of the power balance that goes on throughout mans history. This is abo
59 Klaus : No, your weird theory is completely inconsistent with what actually happened - and you could easily verify that fact, if you were actually interested
60 AGM100 : Klaus , not sure how you are getting xenophobic out of my comments .. but whatever. I would like to able to discuss ideas without getting classified j
61 Falcon84 : Well, we certainly have a Micky Mouse administration, that's for sure, and it's the reason for the statement, AGM. No, I have no problem with it. It
62 Dougloid : It's not so much that Mr. Kuechner is not entitled to his point of view, or that it isn't shared by a lot of people that rubs us the wrong way. It's t
63 Falcon84 : Then it's fair to say it's been lost in both directions, because many ignorant people in this nation have been shitting on the French since before th
64 AGM100 : And pray tell ,, how is this reputation to be mended ? Answer .. it will never be and our reputation is no worse now than it has ever been in the eyes
65 Francoflier : Maybe. There's always been some sort of rivalry and lack of understanding of both side's politics, but just that: politics. It's probably worse now t
66 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : No reason for apology. I however again realize that the Channel is in a way much broader than it looks on the map ! - I see this whenever I travel fr
67 Falcon84 : Through treating our friends in Europe as equals, not vassels that are there simply to agree with us and do our bidding; by treating most of the civi
68 Baroque : Well on the surrender aspect, after Verdun the French had built up enough of a reputation to withstand a fair few surrenders without that tag being h
69 Post contains links and images Klaus : Simple: Your entire argumentation is based on nothing but the prejudice that europeans were somehow just waiting for an opportunity to stick it to th
70 Baroque : Sounds quite good in that link although go easy on the garlic for me. But the quantities, are they planning to feed an army? But what is that mixture
71 Klaus : Can't say... I don't know what you're referring to...
72 Post contains links Baroque : Rote Grütze was what I meant. For some reason I have a blank about remembering the name - probably carried away by the taste. So much for German cui
73 Beaucaire : Bernard Kouchner is an arrogant blunder who lives on his "renommée" from the "french doctors" image.. He's walking from diplomatic gaffe to diplomati
74 Post contains images Klaus : Ah, okay - that's really a delicious dessert! Indeed - but I think it almost always pays off to investigate a bit further into regional cuisines.
75 Post contains images AGM100 : Not stick it to the USA ... just ally themselves with the power bases other than the US , UK , Australia , Japan and many other nations who saw the m
76 Post contains images Baroque : I am really not doing this (transferring files is what I am doing) but Saddam was no longer a threat to anyone except those living in between the no
77 Post contains images AGM100 : Well except his own minority populations and Kuwait , Israel , Jordan , and the US. The same could be said for the Sudanese .. they are know threat t
78 Baroque : Except for two things. 1. That was not what I said - was what I wrote. But make no mistake, he was not only a menace to the Shia in that area, he was
79 Srbmod : Since this threads is eroding into a bash the US, bash the French thread, it is now locked.
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Sure, The War Is Over..... posted Sat Jun 28 2003 16:22:05 by Alpha 1
The Premiership Title Run Is Over :( posted Sun May 4 2003 19:30:09 by EGGD
Why The US Is Losing The War On Terrorism posted Mon Dec 16 2002 08:00:21 by Twaneedsnohelp