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Speed Brakes For Cars  
User currently offlineRichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 803 posts, RR: 7
Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

Hi,

Does anyone know if there are air brake kits available for cars? Now I'm not talking about the kind that they fit to trucks. I'm talking about ones which are similar to those fitted on planes. I know I'd look like a bit of a plank and the person behind me will probably think I've been smoking something. (Which is also the reason why I'm posting this on here and not on some car forum - I'm sure you guys understand!  Smile) but imo it'd be pretty cool to have air brakes extending during heavy braking. So does anyone have any suggestions? I'm not even sure if such a thing exists. I did do a search on Google, but could only find the normal type of automotive air brakes!

Cheers!

- Rich

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Geez Louise! Don't let MCOflyer find out about this!

User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

The term you are looking for is "Speed Brakes" not "air brakes". Short of high performance special purpose vehicles I can't think of any.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineAjd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

The Bugatti Veyron has one at the back but then again that does do 250mph/400kmh so that sorta needs one  Silly

Other than that, i don't even know where about you'd mount the thing, plus all the associated hydraulics and whatnot.


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

Just open the doors.

User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

At the speeds passenger (or sports) cars travel, speed brakes are useless unless they are larger than would be practical. Want proof? Push your car door open at 70mph and see how much it slows. Almost nothing at all. And that is a large surface area.

Look at the size of drag chutes on dragsters, they are many square meters in size and they begin to deflate as the speed decreases below 150mph or so.

Another good example is the travel trailer I pull behind my 4x4 truck. It is about 80 square feet in surface area but the truck still easily pulls it. I can coast down a moderate grade at 70mph without adding any power and still accelerate.


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4638 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

Air Brakes for cars? What's next big rig steering wheels optional on Dodge Calibers?


Word
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2448 times:



Quoting RichM (Thread starter):
I'm not even sure if such a thing exists.

Very unlikely. At car speeds under braking they would hardly have any effect. It would be like putting air brakes on a racehorse.

Also check your car insurance to see if they're happy with the change, should you go ahead with it. A non standard item may invalidate your policy.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

I think NASCAR has airbrakes on the roofs of those cars. You see them pop up in crashes.

User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2426 times:



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 8):
I think NASCAR has airbrakes on the roofs of those cars.

Those a speed brakes. Air brakes are found on large trucks. They make a "compressed air leaking" sound when they're applied.


User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2421 times:



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 8):
I think NASCAR has airbrakes on the roofs of those cars. You see them pop up in crashes.

Yes they deploy when the vehicles go backwards acting as spoilers to prevent flip overs.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineRacingGreen07 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2421 times:



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 7):
Very unlikely such thing exists.

The McLaren SLR boats an air-brake that deploys upon hard braking.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 7):
At car speeds under braking they would hardly have any effect.

I heard the Bugatti Veyron's air brake ALONE has the same stopping power as a normal sized saloon!


Big version: Width: 600 Height: 314 File size: 56kb


User currently offlineRichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 803 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2408 times:



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 11):
IThe McLaren SLR boats an air-brake that deploys upon hard braking.


Big version: Width: 600 Height: 314 File size: 56kb

Wow, that looks impressive. I'd love to have one of those on my car!

Cheers.  Smile

- Rich


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2369 times:



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 11):

The McLaren SLR boats an air-brake that deploys upon hard braking.

But does it actually provide any worthwhile braking force or does it just act to preserve the car's balance under hard braking? Since under heavy braking the c.g shifts towards the front, causing the rear end to lighten up. Braking too much in a turn might be helped by having that spoiler.

And I'm not sure if that's actually an "air-brake." I'd call it a spoiler.


User currently offlineRacingGreen07 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2341 times:



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 13):
And I'm not sure if that's actually an "air-brake."

I kinda see what you mean. But even McLaren themselves call it an air-brake.

Deployed at settings of either 10, 30 or 65 degrees.

At 30 degrees the air brake provides down force to keep the car glued to the road.

At 65 degrees it increases a cars stability in turns.

In a straight line the air-brake is very useful. Like the Bugatti Veyron, the air brake creates as much stopping power as an ordinary saloon vehicle.


User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2326 times:



Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 10):

Yes they deploy when the vehicles go backwards acting as spoilers to prevent flip overs.

Tell that to Elliot Sadler  Wink I think he spends at least a few races every year on the roof.


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2303 times:



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 11):
I heard the Bugatti Veyron's air brake ALONE has the same stopping power as a normal sized saloon!

At what speed?

The drag from the air brake at 250mph on the Veyron may be the same as the braking force on a saloon at 70mph. The air brake also acts to force the rear of the car down and increase the wheel braking efficiency.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1993 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2294 times:



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 11):
I heard the Bugatti Veyron's air brake ALONE has the same stopping power as a normal sized saloon!

Yes however this would be around 400 kph. Most Saloon cars I have driven can not reach these speeds  Wink and I have driven a BMW 745Li and a few others of that caliber. Air friction goes up exponentially I believe. So the amount of effect the "Speed Break" has is quite substantial at around 400kph but around 200 kph it would not have nearly as much affect. It would also create alot of down force on the back end of the car helping you maintain control. I would hesitate to call it a spoiler like an airplane because spoilers are used to distrub lift, helping an airplane stay on the ground and what not and using alot more energy to fly at the same speed/altitude which would do one of two things keep an airspeed constant while you decend or keeping your altitude constant while you slow down. I have also heard that spoilers are sometimes used inorder to spool up the engines (to avoid spool up time) however that is used mostly close to the ground with gear and flaps out so I highly doubt this is a practical method if used at all.



Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2260 times:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 1):
Geez Louise! Don't let MCOflyer find out about this!

I already have. I think it is a good idea.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 9):

Those a speed brakes. Air brakes are found on large trucks. They make a "compressed air leaking" sound when they're applied.

Trucks have a jake brake. Shown here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UCvXKgEo5i8

I need one of these. I could modify a one but my car is aerodynamic. No room one Big D (my Dodge Caliber) unless you integrated it into the roof. That would look cool. Activate a button and hit the brakes and you come to an instant stop. Predigious.

Kinghunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2248 times:



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 18):
I already have. I think it is a good idea.

The title was changed since I posted that. It was originally, "Air Brakes for Cars."

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 18):
Trucks have a jake brake.

Yep. They're illegal to use in most places around here. IIRC, it's a $500 to $1000 fine. The only place the truckers are allowed to use them is on the open road.


User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2195 times:



Quoting RichM (Reply 12):
Wow, that looks impressive. I'd love to have one of those on my car!

Others that have one include:

Isdera Commendatore 112i
McLaren F1 (non-LM, GT and GTR models)
Bugatti Veyron
Mercedes Benz SLR
Lamborghini Murcielago / LP640
Ferrari F140 (aka Enzo Ferrari)
Porsche Carrera GT

On the Mclaren F1, it angles up at certain speeds, and under brakes, it goes almost vertical. On the F1, the spoiler serves a second purpose for cooling the rear brakes. Once in operation, it also opens up some air ducts for brake cooling.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2182 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 20):

On the Mclaren F1, it angles up at certain speeds, and under brakes, it goes almost vertical. On the F1, the spoiler serves a second purpose for cooling the rear brakes. Once in operation, it also opens up some air ducts for brake cooling.

Sounds like a jake brake for semi's. Both reduce wear and tear on parts thus causing a longer service interval and reducing replacement of both parts.

Kinghunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2556 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2116 times:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
Yep. They're illegal to use in most places around here. IIRC, it's a $500 to $1000 fine. The only place the truckers are allowed to use them is on the open road.

That generally assumes that the Jake brake is on the engine. On some newer coaches, the retarder is on the transmission and can be used pretty much anywhere-virtually silent compared to the engine brake. Out here in the West, Jake brakes are permitted pretty much anywhere unless posted otherwise. Nothing like descending a 6%, 4 mile grade from a 10,400 foot pass without touching the air!

Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 14):
I kinda see what you mean. But even McLaren themselves call it an air-brake.

And they're wrong-it's a speed brake. To operate a vehicle with air brakes one has to have a Commercial Driver's License with Air Brake Endorsement or additional training for private coaches. Unlike hydraulic brakes, air brakes are not idiot proof and one has to know how they work to safely operate the vehicle.



"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2106 times:



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 21):
Sounds like a jake brake for semi's. Both reduce wear and tear on parts thus causing a longer service interval and reducing replacement of both parts.

Kinghunter

Gordon Murray used the airflow around and underneath the F1 for many purposes, some of it is for sucking the car down on to the road at speed (amplified by fans), others include the duct that runs from the rear brake discs up to the spoiler, where the movement of the brake discs causes air to be sucked in the duct for cooling purposes.

That's part of the reason it remained the fastest thing on the road for so long - he applied Formula 1 design principles to a road car, making things serve dual purposes, or be as light and small as possible. (eg, the steering assembly weighing just 1.5kg - instead of 12kg as on a normal car).


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2105 times:



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 22):

And they're wrong-it's a speed brake. To operate a vehicle with air brakes one has to have a Commercial Driver's License with Air Brake Endorsement or additional training for private coaches. Unlike hydraulic brakes, air brakes are not idiot proof and one has to know how they work to safely operate the vehicle.

Thank you. I already knew that but wanna know why they call it that?

Mark,

They are not illegal if you use them properly as in stopping. That is what they are designed for. If not, you would see trucks going off steep grades all the time. I like the jake and am a firm believer in them.

Everyone knows what a sunroof looks like so that is what my speed brake would look like except it would be smaller like 6in tall and the exact width of my car. My car will only do 126 (gov limited), so a good addition to the speed brake would be air holes in the front bumper (where the lights are at the bottom of the bumper) to cool the brakes.

Kinghunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
25 57AZ : Correct. Their main purpose is to control the speed of the vehicle on steep or long descending grades without requiring the driver to make excessive
26 Post contains links and images Scooter01 : These are some pics of a 1955 Mercedes Benz 300SLR... -not sure if I would be comfortable using them though..... Scooter01
27 Andz : I just saw Hamster driving it in Cape Town on Top Gear, and he showed it working, looks naff lol.
28 MCOflyer : Thank you sir for confirming my suspicions. I have seen several and can have my friends who drive semi's post pictures of them on here. Kinghunter
29 AsstChiefMark : I'll take a picture of the police officer ticketing a trucker for using Jake brakes in a populated area. Every community in the area has posted that
30 Francoflier : I think there's a huge amount of confusion on this thread about all sorts of braking devices that have nothing in common... The brake RichM was reffer
31 57AZ : Not really. We're just splitting hares and the incorrect usage of terms. You left out transmission retarders. They have the same effect as Jake brake
32 MCOflyer : Well I would rather be awakened by him than his truck crashing through my house. Don't you agree? Kinghunter
33 AsstChiefMark : No. There's no need to Jake brake to go from 45 mph to 25 mph in 1500 feet on flat terrain. Standard brakes will do fine.
34 Post contains links JetMech : Interesting. There actually appears to be two types of retardation device available to large vehicles that use the engine as the retardation device.
35 Francoflier : Interesting... That one compresses the exhaust gases in the exhaust manifold during the fourth stroke. It makes sense, as the noise can then be muffl
36 57AZ : Transmission retarders generallty consist of a vaned flywheel buit into the retarder housing. When the driver activates the retarder, the transmission
37 MCOflyer : alan, How do you know so much about this stuff? Kinghunter
38 57AZ : Reason I know what I do about braking is that I spent a year driving over the road motorcoaches that were outfitted with transmission retarders and a
39 Francoflier : Thanks!
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