Hepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 908 times:
Didn't you guys see that report from CNN? Apparantly, 9/11 was being planned from way back in '96. The Phillipino government arrested Islamic radicals in that year and discovered written plans to fly aircraft into American skyscrapers. This evidence was turned over to the FBI but they never acted on it. I suspect that you all in the U.S. probably didn't see too much of this report, and I suspect it has to do with the FBI's embarassment. But the fact is, we had ample warning both from Bin Laden and the Phillipines that something major was going to happen but no one paid attention. Whether Gore or Bush, at the rate our intelligence was heading, it would have happened anyway.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12708 posts, RR: 80 Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 884 times:
That attack was probably years in planning, I doubt if fanatics really care about who is leading 'The Great Satan' at any one time.
However, I think that the US response, initially at least against the Taleban/Al-Queda, would have beem similar.
None of Bush's homespun retoric though.
Before all the right-wing Zealots flame me, Gore would have taken military advice from pretty much the same people as Bush, (the Joint Chiefs of Staff), Powell may have even still been in the goverment.
Even AF1's movements of 11th Sept may have been similar, if Gore too was far from Washington at the time.
Your airwaves over there would be filled with the nutcases like Limbaugh calling Gore a coward for flying around from bunker to bunker that terrible, uncertain day.
Want to guess who on here would have joined in?
After the Taleban and Al-Queda were routed, things under a Gore administration might start to differ from how things seem to be going now, but who can say? Such an unpredented event after all.
This is just the view of an outsider with only a limited knowledge of US politics, and while no fan of Bush, he is your President so I'm trying to be impartial here!
At the end of the day, the same servicemen would have to risk their lives doing their duty, and before you shout 'Gore was a pinko', remember the Reagan goverment's less than impressive record against terrorism, although the US was not directly attacked then.
Maybe Gore would have not coped too well, maybe Bush has because of the team around him.
This administration's memoirs will make interesting reading for sure.
SEVEN_FIFTY7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 957 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 868 times:
>>Sometimes you imply that the American people act like puppies, blindly following the owner with a leash around its neck.<<
But it's true. We do act like that because we're a gullible lot. As long as it doesn't interfere with us making our millions (the rich), or as long as it doesn't interfere with our ability to survive from paycheck to paycheck (the working poor) we usually still don't care enough about world affairs to actually scrutinize the bs we're being fed. We often have very short memories and despite the many scandals we've endured over the past decades we still do not actively question the information we receive today.
Sometimes I wonder if our own propaganda machine is as bad as China's or Cuba's.
Heavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 864 times:
I'm forced to agree with GDB...to a point.
A President Gore would have reacted much the same way in the initial hours following the attack....BUT...our response may have been placed on a political timetable rather than a military one....& that would have been bad.
Democratic Presidents since Kennedy have historically 'overcompensated' in military response, in an effort to make up for a perceived reluctance in "getting tough". Kennedy went against his better judgement and sent 'advisors' to South Vietnam so as not to be labelled 'soft' on communisim. Carter approved the fiasco in the Iranian desert because an election was forthcoming and polls showed the electorate was tiring of trying to negotiate for our hostages. Clinton went apeshit with cruise missiles after every slight, a hugely visible and amazingly ineffective response.
Because of this tender subject among Dems, a President Gore may have pushed the military to action before they had assets in place....and I agree with GDB completely on the subject of the right wing smear machine. The unity that President Bush enjoyed following 9/11...with even liberal columnists in the main establishment papers praising his leadership...would have been nonexistent if Gore was in the White House. The vast conservative media empire would have launched into a collective and damaging "we told you so" within hours of the last girder falling.
Jj From Algeria, joined Jun 2001, 1227 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 868 times:
Guys Please!!!! The attack was to occident, not just to the states! It was chosen to attack them, I guess, because they're the best exponent of occident. But terrorists didn't care if the president was bush, gore, clinton, or my momma. The attack was already planed. And it wasn't only because of Clinton's policy of the middle east!!!
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 863 times:
Absolutely. Without a doubt. This wasn't some plan thrown together in a matter of a few months. I'd wager they were working on the plan while Clinton was still in office. They don't care if a Bush or a Gore or a Clinton or whomever is in the White House. These scum hate ALL Americans; they hate what we stand for; it would have happened exactly the way it did.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 843 times:
Yyz717, I didn't think George W. had gonads, either, but he's surprised me with his decisiveness in this conflict. I think such an earth-shattering event can focus a man, and bring out resolve in a man in ways the he-and we-cannot see before such a cataclysmic event happens. I imagine Gore would have acquitted himself quite well, just as President Bush has.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 810 times:
Zach, you're letting your intensse dislike of anything Democratic color your response, as usual.
I expected Bush to go in guns blazing on the night of Sept 11th, but he didn't-he held his fire and his response longer than I would have expected any Republican to do. I think you would have found that Gore or anyone else, for that matter, to have prosecuted the conflict just as vigorously as Bush has. You have to separate your "business as usual" views about any president set against such a monumental event as 9-11.
Gore would have been hunting these scumbags just the same as Bush has. Although I wonder how much support the GOP would have given him. I won't go any further with that thought than I did, because we won't ever know, will we?
PROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5439 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 800 times:
ANYWAY, I see Gore as crying publicly over 911 (if he was Pres) and apologizing to the Taliban, not rooting them out. I'm being sarcastic but I just don't see Gore as having ANY balls.
He would have had no choice but to respond with military force. If he didn't, and instead said that we should negotiate, the American people would never have allowed him to continue. One of two things would have happened if Gore had wimped out:
Scenario A - Congress holds an emergency session, and within the space of a few hours the House votes to impeach and the Senate votes to convict. They'd probably get rid of Lieberman too, and the new President Dennis Hastert would have proceeded immediately with war plans similar to what Bush did in real life.
Scenario B - a military coup overthrows Gore, and whomever the new leader is hits Afghanistan much, much harder than Bush ever imagined. As the joke goes, the weather forecast for Kandahar would have been very bright, temperature 5,000 degrees. After the dust settles (literally), some means would have been set up to restore civilian power, probably to Hastert.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
25 Alpha 1: PROSA, your second scenario is preposterous! A military coup would happen with the same likelyhood as bin Laden receiving the Nobel Peace Prize-it wil
26 Heavymetal: Prosa, just to clarify, your first scenario is preposterous too.
27 Alpha 1: PROSA, to clarify further, impeachment wouldn't happen within a few hours-impeachment WOULD happen, but there's a set way that impeachments are carrie
28 Mika: Guys. Notice that there's a difference between planning something and acting something out. Someone can plan to do something but not act it out until
29 Psa188: The rat bastards who attacked us on 9/11 would have done so regardless of who was president. We're all infidels to those warped assholes. The differen
30 Alpha 1: Psa188, I think you'd be sadly mistaken. Again, you're acting as you would have before 9-11, and putting in pathethic stereotypes. In fairness, had Go
31 FLY 8: Sure, it would have happend anyway. Like Hepkat said the plans started as early as 1996!
32 Psa188: You're entitled to your opinion, but you're wrong. When our embassies were attacked on Clinton's watch, Gore's boss responded by firing a couple of mi
33 Jj: Some say, that the attack was planned from as early AS 1994! And this whol thread is a piece of s***!!! Instead of thinking what would have happened
34 Alpha 1: Psa188, you're talking about his boss, for crying out loud. Get over your petty little hatreds. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT GORE WOULD HAVE DONE!! Don't tell
35 Alpha 1: Jj, speculating is human nature. We always are asking "what if", so if it bothers you that much-and it obviously does-just don't reply. Simple, isn't
36 Mika: I really don't understand people who think it's better to let a discussion board stand empty instead of it being used (that includes speculating). It'
37 PROSA: PROSA, to clarify further, impeachment wouldn't happen within a few hours-impeachment WOULD happen, but there's a set way that impeachments are carrie
38 Alpha 1: PROSA, you can stand by what you say all you want-there is a set formality on any of this stuff, and it wouldn't happen "in a few days", no matter how
39 Hepkat: Gentle People, whether Gore, Bush, Lieberman or whoever, the reaction to 9.11 would have been the same. Bush took the course of action he did because
40 Alpha 1: For once, I have to say that Hepkat hit the nail right on the head. Well said, Hepkat.
41 PROSA: PROSA, you can stand by what you say all you want-there is a set formality on any of this stuff, and it wouldn't happen "in a few days", no matter how
42 Cfalk: Hepkat is pretty much correct. Action such as was made would have occured even if Pee-Wee were president. However the endgame in Afghanistan, and the
43 Heavymetal: Prosa, HOW do you imagine a President Gore 'disavowing' military action? In some whiny, Rodney King-ish "Can't we all just get along" plead? If you fo
44 PROSA: Prosa, HOW do you imagine a President Gore 'disavowing' military action? In some whiny, Rodney King-ish "Can't we all just get along" plead? If you fo
45 Psa188: Alpha1 flames me, saying I don't have a crystal ball and can't predict what Gore would/wouldn't do, then he does exactly the same thing when he writes
46 Alpha 1: Psa188, there's a difference between what you said and what I said: you said he'd wimp out because he was VP for Clinton. You throw all those tired ol
47 Psa188: Like it or not, we were both inferring. It's too bad that you can't realize in your blind attempt to defend Gore.
48 Alpha 1: ROTFL, I'm not attempting to defend anyone!! I'm making an educated deduction. You, on the other hand, are just throwing one-liners from the GOP Platf
49 Airlinelover: Yeah.. It would've still happened.. And Al Gore would've gone and hugged a tree afterwards.. Chris
50 Lehpron: Jiml1126: Do you people think that if Al Gore won US Presidential election in 2000, will the terrorist still launching terrorist attack against the US
51 Blink182: Would it have mattered? The point is, it happened whether we like it or not and we can't do anything about it. The 9/11 attacks were on a country, not
52 Alpha 1: Lephron, why is it up to Bush to TRY to stop the violence. That is up to the Palestinians and Israel, is it not? The US can offer it's good offices as
53 Yyz717: Sorry Alpha 1, you're wrong (again). The US can't have it both ways. IE, provide more foreign aid to Israel than any other country (indirectly allowin
54 Alpha 1: I disagree Yyz, so I think you're wrong-again. The US has tried to be an honest broker in the Northern Ireland dispute. The US even sells arms to Engl
55 Yyz717: Much of the funding for the IRA comes from comfortable Irish-Americans. The US has been anything but a peace broker in Northern Ireland. As for the Mi