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The Official NHL Off-Season Thread  
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3640 times:

Now that the Stanley Cup Finals are over and the fallout from the season has really begun in earnest, time for the NHL Off-Season Thread.

The coach carousel:

Atlanta: Chicago Wolves coach John Anderson was named today the Thrashers' Head Coach.
Tampa Bay: Torts was let go and the rumors are that the new ownership is going to bring the Mullet back to the NHL. I think Barry Melrose has been away from the game too long.
Florida: Peter DeBoer (Of the OHL's Kitchner Rangers) was named Panthers' head coach.
Toronto: Former SJ Head Coach Ron Wilson named Head Coach.
San Jose: Red Wings Assistant Coach Todd McLellan named Head Coach.
Ottawa: Former Blackhawks and Ducks Head Coach Craig Hartsburg named Head Coach.
Colorado: Former coach Tony Granato gets promoted again.
Kings: Still vacant (Wouldn't be surprised to see Paul Maurice or Joel Quenneville taking this dog of a coaching position.).


The draft is tonight (6/20/08) and Tampa Bay is expected to draft C Steve Stamkos with the #1 pick. My team, the Thrashers, pick third and will draft whichever defenseman LA passed on (Some wags are saying the Kings are high on Alex Pietrangelo, but Drew Doughty and Zach Bogosian are on their lists as well), and they are pretty much penciled in to be on the opening night roster. We also have Pittsburgh 1st round pick as well (#29) and we could either deal it for a player we could use immediately or pick up a player that could help us a season or two down the line.

So far, the predraft trades are somewhat unremarkable other than Nashville sending Chris Mason to the Blues for a 2008 fourth round pick. The Blues sent Jamal Mayers to the Leafs for a 2003 third round pick. Nashville also traded the rights of Darcy Hordichuk to Carolina for a 2009 fifth round pick, and if Hordichuk doesn't sign with the 'Canes, they get Nashville's 2010 fifth round pick.

In other news, Mats Sundin's days as a Leaf may be over as the Habs have been given permission to talk to him.

The NHL is threatening to strip MSG of their ownership of the Rangers as part of an ongoing battle between the two sides in regards to who gets to run the Rags' website. MSG has publicly accused the NHL or violating anti-trust laws and is suing the NHL for that, and the NHL has filed a counterclaim, saying that MSG has breach its' contract by challenging NHL rules and policies. Am I the only one rooting for the NHL?

94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3637 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Thread starter):
Kings: Still vacant (Wouldn't be surprised to see Paul Maurice or Joel Quenneville taking this dog of a coaching position.).

Unless Rogie Vachon, Marcel Dionne, and Dave Taylor are suddenly reincarnated, the Kings will remain the laughingstock of the NHL, and a very weak sister to the competition 40 miles down the road. The forum blue and gold will always be tops with me.....but they straight up suck...

Tom at MSy



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3626 times:



Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 1):

They've got some decent pieces there, Jack Johnson, Jason LaBarbera, Anze Kopitar, Patrick O'Sullivan, Lubomir Visnovsky, and Michael Cammalleri. They're going to be living down the deal for Dan "I couldn't stop a beach ball" Cloutier for years to come. You can really trace the Kings' problems back to when McNall owned the team. The only real positives to come out of AEG's ownership is that they probably kept the team from folding or relocation and the move to the Staples Center. I'm beginning to wonder if the Kings are simply a tax write-off for AEG. As long as AEG owns them and really doesn't make any moves to really improve the team, they remain a doormat.


User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

Finally, Calgary got smart and off loaded Alex Tanguay, in turn doing another smart thing in acquiring Mike Cammalleri from LA... some good news for the day.


Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3771 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

I hope that my Jackets work on adding a few worthwhile new faces to the roster. Howson said he wanted 2 top 6 centers, 2 defensemen & a winger. Umberger's a good start, but we still need more. And we've got plenty of money to spend on it.

I just hope Howson sticks to his guns on the "WIN NOW" attitude the team's going to take. Any more of "let's build our prospects because we'll have a GREAT team 5 years from now" & I'll be unhappy. I'm still a bit sore that all we got for Sergei Fedorov was a defenseman from Notre Dame.

[Edited 2008-06-21 18:26:36]


Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3592 times:



Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 4):
I'm still a bit sore that all we got for Sergei Fedorov was a defenseman from Notre Dame.

Probably not as sore as the Pens fans will probably be, as the talks between Marian Hossa and the Pens have broken off and he will test the waters in Free Agency. Rumors are that the Pens offered him a 7 year, $7 million/year deal, and he's wanting $8 million+ a year. The Pens cannot give him more than $7 million unless they want to risk losing Malkin or Staal (RFA) after next season or Fleury come July 1 (He'll be a RFA). In addition, the Pens have several core players who will be free agents come July 1st (Ryan Malone, Brooks Orpik, Gary Roberts). Dupuis has already stated that he would like to remain with the Pens, as he too is a free agent. In short, Shero was mugged by Don Waddell (Who somewhat covered his tracks for that bone-headed Coburn for Zhitnik trade at the deadline in 2007 when he drafted Zach Bogosian last night.).

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=PIT&season=0809

I'm definitely happy with the Thrashers drafting Bogosian, iffy on our other pick in the 1st round, Daulton Leveille a center from the St. Catherines Falcons of the Golden Horseshoe League, a Junior B. league. He was the fastest skater at the Combine and will be playing college hockey at Michigan State. He's small, listed at 5'11" 163 lbs. He'll hopefully add few inches and add another 40+ lbs in the next few years. One pick that I thought was interesting is that they drafted a local player, Vinny Saponari, who has been playing for the USA U-18 Team and will be attending Boston University in the Fall. He's only the second Georgia-born player taken in the NHL draft (Eric Chouinard, the son of former NHL player Guy Chouinard, was the first back in '98).

Some of the trades last night were definitely some big ones. Jokinen to Phoenix for Keith Ballard, Nick Boynton, and the Coyotes' 2nd Round pick definitely is the blockbuster. This definitely makes the Panthers stronger on the blueline. One trade today that caught my eye was Phoenix traded a 2008 third round pick (#90, originally the Pens' pick) to the Rangers for Alex Bourret, who was the Thrashers' first round pick in 2005 and was traded at the deadline to the Rags in 2007 for Pascal Dupuis and a 2007 3rd Round pick. Hope Gretzky can get the tub of poutine into shape (He's shown up to camp with both the Thrashers and the Rags overweight and out of shape.), as he was a pretty decent player in the Q (His last season in the Q he scored 44 goals and had 70 assists.).


User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

As an Islander fan, I can only hope Garth Snow (and the rest of the committee) get hit by a bus. The first round was a total fleecing.....By Ourselves. We had the 5th pick which we traded down to TOR and then traded that for the 9th pick. And who did we pick.........Josh Bailey???

Nothing against Bailey as he looks like a decent 2 way forward (second to Stamkos in scoring) but we passed on Filatov who would have been the face of the franchise and put fannies in the seats which is exactly what the Isles need right now. Snow an Company blew it since Bailey was really projected at about the 12-15 range. Filatov should have been our man.

Now he did do some nice work of stockpiling draft picks and restocking the system with some good names (Trivino, Toews) but the real steal may be the 73rd pick in Kirill Petrov who many say is as good as Filatov, only issue with him is actually getting him to the states.

Another long long season is on the way.


User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3578 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 5):
The Pens cannot give him more than $7 million unless they want to risk losing Malkin or Staal (RFA) after next season or Fleury come July 1 (He'll be a RFA).

The news a couple days ago was that the Pens were trying to deal Malkin to the Kings for that second overall pick so they could afford to pay Hossa the $8 million. Obviously that fell through, but they have offered Fleury salary arbitration thus preventing him from becoming an RFA. They're definitely going to lose some valuable members of this year's team...



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineWunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3570 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Thread starter):
they are pretty much penciled in to be on the opening night roster

Which I think is a terrible thing. 18-year-olds shouldn't be playing pro sports. It has been proven time and again that the human body grows until at least age 20, sometimes up until 22. All we're doing with these kids is make sure that they develop all sorts of nasty ailments when they turn 45 (arthritis, malfunctioning kidneys, bloated muscle mass).  Sad

As a general rule I think junior and college ranks also get depleted of prime talent. I understand it's the rule of the business but that doesn't make it any more acceptable from a sports point of view.

I will always praise Lou Lamoriello for taking a safe and careful approach with his much-lauded development system. We've seen very, very few players jumping straight out of the draft into the Devils' roster (Petr Sykora excepted) over the last 15 years and I think this is a good thing.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 5):
Alex Bourret

Can you say "Christian Dubé"?  Wink Or Pavel Brendl?


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

I like icehockey and this was the first time that I followed the draft. Not followed live but read up on it and did some analysis of it.

First thing that bothers me. No Slovak players at all drafted. Another big issue only 3 Czech players drafted.
Its getting dangerous if the sport is about to loose the talentpool that has come from these two countries. I hope this was just a one off and not a trend. The world of icehockey is way to small to loose two of its prominent members.

Another thing I dont understand. In todays NHL about 30% of the players come from Europe, yet only 10% of the draftchoices are European. Using my simple math it seems like Canadian juniors are overrepresented in the drafts.
Since I am in Sweden at the moment I understand that Swedish commentators were just shaking their heads at some of the Swedish picks wondering if certain clubs even bothered to have a look at the player.
Apparently they were saying that only Detroit and a few others do real scouting in Sweden, the rest do measurement and youtube scouting (meaning video and looking at stats)

Some predictions.
Stamkos will be great but we already knew that.

However my winner in this draft is Vancouver. They made a great pick.

Losers will be LA, two early picks and both, to me, have all signs of not living up to expectations.
Another looser will be New Jersey, Tedenby will not fit with their system and hasn't been able to step up to seniors yet. Big question-mark over him according to the locals here.
New Jersey also have a history of failing with swedes and Tedenby didnt seem to thrilled about being chosen by them in his interviews over here.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineWunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 3557 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 9):
First thing that bothers me. No Slovak players at all drafted. Another big issue only 3 Czech players drafted.

I don't see how this is a problem.

As you said:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 9):
only Detroit and a few others do real scouting in Sweden

And they have 4 Cups in 10 seasons to show for it.

The good thing about hockey is that if you stuff up your drafting/development, you end up paying dearly. Just ask any Leafs or Rangers' fan.

 Smile

And it may also be that some years the talent pool is deeper in certain countries than others. It's a cyclical thing. You can see that Canada has won a truckload of WJC in a row over the past few years, thus proving the superior depth of Canada's talent pool.


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Well...does this mean Pit won't be returning to the Finals? Did they get there overloaded on talent? Hossa is gone after, IMHO, getting a very decent offer. $7 million a season for 7 years? Are you kidding me? He ain't Sidney Crosby. Hell, he ain't even Malkin, and Malkin sucked when it counted the most. What'll hurt the Pens the most is Orpik leaving, and possibly Malone (which I don't think will happen...but you never know).

User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

So, Sundin may become a Hab!!  eek  As a Leaf fan i hope that we get a good package back from Montreal should this move happen. We could have got a lot for him before the trade deadline. I decision must happen before July 1 !!


I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3535 times:



Quoting YooYoo (Reply 12):
So, Sundin may become a Hab!! eek As a Leaf fan i hope that we get a good package back from Montreal should this move happen. We could have got a lot for him before the trade deadline. I decision must happen before July 1 !!

No Sundin had a no trade clause so they could not trade him on deadline day.
Sundin was one of six or seven players with the leafs that had this no trade clause. He has spent 13 years at the leafs and then the new GM publicly makes him the villian of the trade deadline day. To Sundin that was a an ultimate form of betrayal and something you just dont do to a bloke that has been loyal and given his all for the club for such a longtime.
Canadians might not see it that way but Sundin is a Swede and for him he has been treated bad and trust is lost. He is disappointed with the leafs and has publicly stated that.
I doubt that he will sign anything with Montreal before the 1st of July.
There is absolutely zero incentive for him to to help a GM that stabbed him in the back. If he does he is a very special man.

It amazes me that high ranking officials in the NHL dont have any cultural management skills. After all 30% of the players are European and its not that hard to learn a little bit about their values. It would improve realtions, save money for their franchises and assist with teamspirit.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3531 times:



Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 11):
and possibly Malone (which I don't think will happen...but you never know).

I am a big fan of Malone but I am curious to see how he plays without talent flanking him. If he leaves I think it would be a mistake.


User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3531 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 13):
No Sundin had a no trade clause so they could not trade him on deadline day.

I'm aware of that which would make me a little bitter if he goes somewhere else after pledging his allegiance to the Leaf organization. If he truly "loves" Toronto and the fans as he says, he would have let (at trade deadline) the trade go through (GM fletcher asked him to waive his no movement clause) so we could get something back. I believe he is honourable and will take the deal with Montreal IF he wants to play again just so the Leafs get something in return. I hear Gainey may fly to Sweden for a face to face with him.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 13):
the new GM publicly makes him the villain of the trade deadline day

That trade talk was going to get out sooner or later, it is the managers job to see what possibilities are out there and could be done and this was presented to Sundin. Sundin refused and Fletcher respected his decision. I don't think the "villain" mentality was not perceived that way here. There are some that were pissed but i think the majority understood what he did by not going elsewhere and staying true to the blue and white. Now the true villain is Kubina, agreeing to a trade and then saying "no", but that's another thread/post.  Wink

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 13):
There is absolutely zero incentive for him to to help a GM that stabbed him in the back

That same manager brought him over to the Leafs so many years ago and from what i hear Cliff Fletcher is one of the most respected mangers out there treating all with respect and dignity



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineWunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3516 times:



Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 11):
does this mean Pit won't be returning to the Finals? Did they get there overloaded on talent?

What you are getting here is the absurdity of the salary cap. Basically, a team that does its homework by drafting and developing prime time talent can kiss all this hard work goodbye as soon as the players turn 25, e.g. right when they enter their prime.

This is ridiculous.

As always, I would suggest some rather radical changes to the rules. First of all, I would impose that at least half of the roster of any team, at any time, be made up of draftees from this particular team. Of course, we can include grandfather clauses for expansion teams who have not had the time to pile up as many picks and prospects as older teams. Also, current contracts should be honoured.

The consequence should be that draftees' contracts should be taken out of the salary cap. There's no reason why the Penguins should have to worry about "cap space" to re-sign Malkin, Crosby, Fleury, Letang, Whitney or Malone. The cap should only apply to the other half of the team, composed of trades and free agents.

Just my two cents.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 9):

The expiration of the NHL-IIHF transfer agreement may have played a role in this year's draft. There were only five European players taken in the 1st Round, and two of those were Russian players that the teams that drafted them may have issues getting them here (Remember the whole Malkin affair?). The other three came from Sweden. Overall, there were 39 European players taken in the draft (Out of 211 players), with most of them being from teams in Sweden, Finland, and Russia. Actually there were more European players drafted this year than last, but not by much. I'm guessing NHL teams have a little bit better relationships with the SM-liiga and the Elitserien than they do with the other European leagues, and are also willing to chance it with Russian players.

What could happen is that since there are no transfer fees paid to a player's former team in Europe, those teams in Europe could actually entice their players to stay with higher salaries. Under the current NHL CBA, there's a maximum amount for an entry level contract and the max yearly salary for an entry contract for this year's draft class is $875,000 and can earn up to a 10% signing bonus as well as team performance bonuses up to $850,000 (Max of $215,000 per bonus). Leagues in Europe could entice younger European players with higher contract deals than what they could get in the NHL, and the Continental Hockey League (Which is replacing the Russia Super League) is has already made overtures to Malkin.

[Edited 2008-06-23 17:33:28]

User currently offlineUs330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3871 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

WunalaYann,
I could not agree with you more. Why should teams suffer because they have great scouting departments and acquired their talent in the more traditional manner? The fact that the Pens are possibly considering trading Malkin because of this is nucking futs.

MillwallSean:
What do you mean L.A. lost big time at the draft?
Dean Lombardi has an excellent track record (see his stockpiling of San Jose with top prospects) and is slowly turning the Kings around. Most hockey journalists, in fact, loved both of L.A.'s picks. Once all that talent comes of age, they will be a force to be reckoned with.
They say Doughty will be a great complement to Jack Johnson on the blue line.

Brian Burke and his quackers also managed to pull of a steal according to some analysts, drafting Deschamps in the top of the second round.
Also, never count out Ken Holland.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3502 times:



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 16):
There's no reason why the Penguins should have to worry about "cap space" to re-sign Malkin, Crosby, Fleury, Letang, Whitney or Malone. The cap should only apply to the other half of the team, composed of trades and free agents.

I haven't read the Post Gazette or Trib yet, but the news yesterday was that Malkin turned down a whopper of a deal by several Russian teams. Malkin told his manager, who told the press that he wants to remain in Pittsburgh, and he wants the Pens to re-sign as many talented free-agents as they can.

Regarding Hossa, I was rather bumbed that he turned down the Pens' offer, but I think he just wants to be sure about the whole free-agency bit. He would like to play for the Pens, but I think, of course, that he would also like to play for quite a chunk of change, and as if $7 million a year isn't big enough. If I were Hossa, I'd accept that in less time it would take me to blink...

Ryan Malone, I think he's doing the same thing as Hossa...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3496 times:



Quoting Us330 (Reply 18):
Why should teams suffer because they have great scouting departments and acquired their talent in the more traditional manner? The fact that the Pens are possibly considering trading Malkin because of this is nucking futs.

Like the Wings? The Wings are where they are now because of scouting, NOT drafting #1 pics ala the Pens. No scouting was needed for Fluery, Crosby, nor Malkin. Hossa was brought in at the trade deadline. Maybe Malone and Orpik were scouting genius, but not them other guys. Don't buy it in this case. Maybe this means the Pens were overloaded like the Wings were in 2002. Those Wings would be in the same position that the Pens are in today.


User currently offlineWunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3492 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19):
Malkin told his manager, who told the press that he wants to remain in Pittsburgh, and he wants the Pens to re-sign as many talented free-agents as they can.

Yeah. Well. I will wait for him to sign for that lower amount to stay with the Pens and help them sign other free agents. There is a factor that should not be discounted - NHLPA pressure. If stars start taking less money to remain with their mates, they're basically lowering the bar for other free agents, arbitration or not. That was the whole issue with Iginla's situation in '02.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 20):
No scouting was needed for Fluery, Crosby, nor Malkin

The Pens did pass on Staal, Phaneuf, Zherdev, Michalek, etc. to pick Fleury and throw him to the lions. Those have turned out to be decent contributors, to use a massive understatement.

And as a general rule, the draft is here to address the issue of a bottom-feeding team. I am quite sure that the Pens would rather be the Wings or the Devils, never missing the playoffs while always coming up with strong prospects. But they got lucky in a sense that they were scheisse when there was an abundance of future superstars available.

That doesn't discount the quality of their drafting.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 17):
the Continental Hockey League (Which is replacing the Russia Super League) is has already made overtures to Malkin.

And was turned down. I do think that the CHL will be more successful with older Russian players wishing to come back home but not for peanuts.  Smile


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3477 times:

The CHL will go from strength to strength. But its quite a few years away from competing for the best players.
I think top minutes is more important than age for lots of Euros playing in the NHL. If CHL clubs offer topminutes and a higher salary quite a few players might jump.

Malkin, he will stay for another season, after that things gets really interesting and the Penguins really have to step it up to keep him.
Why because his contract expires after next season, he is RFA, and this allows him to leave for Russia and still play for his country and in the olympics. If he left now he would breach his contract and be stopped from international icehockey something few Europeans want.

To who asked me about LA. I believe their picks will not pan out as well as you would expect from a second and a thirteenth? pick. I reckon Doughty will be an ok NHL defender not more and for a second round pick thats not enough to be considered a success. The other bloke has lower potential, third pairing if you ask me.
But its all speculation and was my guess about winners and loosers in the draft. I listened to what Detroits and Montreals Euro scouts said as well.

My german friend:
Everyone can have different opinions about what Sundin should have done, but fact remains he had a no trade clause, a well earned one I must say, and it was his descision to make.
My opinion is that the GM didnt handle this whole saga well, if he would have been a skilled man to man GM I am sure he would have gotten Sundin to agree to alot of things but he chose to play hardball and his return for it will most likely be zero.
To me he has poisoned the relationship with what is Torontos best player since the early eighties. Its a waste of resources and financial stupidity to not maximise the value you can get from an asset and thats what he has done with Sundin.
The owners of the maple leafs, apparently he wont negotiate anything with Fletcher anymore, have said that they have offered Sundin a new one year contract with a no trade clause in it. Will he agree to it, probably not, and will he allow himself to be traded before he is UFA, probably not.
I think he is pondering if he wants to play for another club or if he prefers to finish his career a year or two earlier than what he planned for.

The Sundin saga has soured more than just the relationship with Sundin. Fellow maple leaf Steen has come out in Swedish newspapers and publicly stated that such treatment of players makes him very disappointed with Toronto as an organisation.

Its difficult for North Americans to understand this, but breaking a negotiated deal is seen as something really bad by most Swedes. A promise is a promise and should always be honoured over here.
Same thing happened with Stralman. He was promised a spot on the rooster before he signed and came over. When he showed for camp they said he had to compete for his rooster spot and that he would start in the Marlies. No big deal for a Canadian or American but a clear break of faith for a Swede resulting in an unhappy player. And AHL is for most swedes a big step down and not something thats worth playing in.
Swedes are very easy to deal with, keep it honest and they will give their hearts for you but start smoothtalking and they will remember it for a long time. The best Toronto can do is to trade Stralman because he will never fulfil his potential in Toronto after this.

Overall conslusion, the benefits of having a cultural man management program like Detroits is huge...



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3475 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 22):
My german friend:

Me?  Wink
Yes German flag for the Euro 08 support, but i do live in the Toronto area.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 22):
Everyone can have different opinions about what Sundin should have done, but fact remains he had a no trade clause, a well earned one I must say, and it was his descision to make.

I am a huge Sundin fan. Perhaps my view has been clouded by the media and the media have twisted Sundin's words.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 22):
My opinion is that the GM didnt handle this whole saga well

I still support Fletcher. My blame lies with Pettie and his lawyer Friend not getting their act together with regards to finding a new GM. I'm sure you know Fletcher was brought in as a temp. man and i'm sure the higher ups including Taunenbaum have their finger in this forcing Fletcher to make moves/comments he wasn't comfortable in making.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 22):
they have offered Sundin a new one year contract with a no trade clause in it

i heard that today. >$7M. Not bad, but he's not coming back, Rangers and now maybe Florida want him (So Belak says)

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 22):
Overall conslusion, the benefits of having a cultural man management program like Detroits is huge...

Interesting, never knew that.



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

The Maple Leafs began cleaning house in earnest yesterday when they placed centre Kyle Wellwood and goaltender Andrew Raycroft on National Hockey League waivers.

Thanks goodness.



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
25 Srbmod : Especially since the NHL and it's member teams are under a "gentleman's agreement" not to sign any European player currently under contract in Europe
26 WunalaYann : Raycroft, I may agree with you. Wellwood - smells of "Steve Sullivan". Trade him anywhere and he might become your next perennial 80-pts scorer on a
27 MillwallSean : I like Fletcher too and he is starting something that should have been started a few years ago. Just think he made a bad call with Sundin. I mean its
28 WunalaYann : McCabe who is now 33 years of age... Not exactly my definition of "building block"...
29 Garnetpalmetto : Looks like Hordichuk isn't even TALKING to Carolina and the 'Canes have broken off talks with him - look like we get that Fifth Rounder back next year
30 MillwallSean : Wellwood was a little bit surprising, but a clear out like the Rangers did a few seasons ago is whats needed starting with McCabe... Meaning that the
31 YooYoo : Apparently Fletcher is NOT going to buy out his contract as it would hit the Cap too hard. Maybe he'll be traded and that's ok with me. They did buy
32 MillwallSean : Kaberle is a good defender. Made for the new NHL. I saw that Vancouver picked up Wellwood. Surprised by that. I thought they needed more offensive pla
33 WunalaYann : The "new" NHL... As opposed to the "old" one? You know that scoring last season was only marginally higher than in '01-'02. The dreaded trap has come
34 YooYoo : yes i did!! I was just curious. mmm....July 1 is around the corner. I can feel big things are going to happen.
35 WunalaYann : Where do you reckon Tucker is going to end up? Ottawa?
36 GQfluffy : Obstruction my ass. It's called puck posession. Ask any of the Penguins about it. They'll tell their experiences for hours...
37 WunalaYann : Bring back 1978.
38 JFK69 : The oft ijured Shawn Bates will be bought out by the Islanders. He had one great season with the highlight of his career taking place with the big pen
39 YooYoo : That was never a penalty shot...more like goaltender interference!! I have no idea and i've heard of no rumours. Maybe he and Avery can travel around
40 Garnetpalmetto : Non-hockey market my fanny. Players tend to love it here - there's a reason that once players have played for the 'Canes they tend to settle in the R
41 YooYoo : We'll give you McCabe for a bag of pucks!!
42 JFK69 : Since the payroll floor is so damn low the Isles may be forced to take your mistake.
43 YooYoo : Please do. Signed, J.F.J. i heard he may go there. His wife/g.f. is from there?
44 JFK69 : Yeah, she is a LI girl, and that would be the only reason why he would come back...oh and because Milbuy is gone.
45 Garnetpalmetto : Sure, if you'll take David Tanabe for the same Apparently the 'Canes have bought out Jeff Hamilton and Tanabe's contracts, although the NHLPA is atte
46 Post contains links Srbmod : You forgot Phoenix..... You can also throw in Orlando as at the time he was in the Thrashers' organization, our top affiliate was the Orlando Solar B
47 YooYoo : nobody picked up Raycroft from waivers?!! imaagine that. Time to buy out his ass although i heard a better scenerio for him which i can't type now. An
48 JFK69 : Ryan Malone s signed with the Lightning. I would like to see him recreate his numbers. Looks as if Gary Robets has signed down there as well. Wade Dub
49 NASCARAirforce : Detroit doesn't need any trades - you already got perfection there. Just sign whoever is up for free agency and then wait until 2009 to hand Lidstrom
50 GQfluffy : The ice improved much over the last few years? As Tim Allen once said Don't you get too cocky... The Wings don't need much of anything...for the mome
51 Post contains links Srbmod : The Bolts have also acquired the rights to Brian Rolston as well. Malone 7-year $31.5 deal, Roberts, 1-year, $1.25 million + a bonus of $10,000 for e
52 Garnetpalmetto : Absolutely. During the '05-'06 playoffs, the RBC Center ice was consistently rated as one of the better surfaces going by the players and officials.
53 WunalaYann : Calgary seems to be the rumour du jour. Funny how the Flames keep getting older and slower... Players, for sure. Now about the developmental leagues,
54 Garnetpalmetto : I don't know abotu that either Wunala. Since the 'Canes have come to the area there's been an explosion in the number of youth leagues and teams and
55 Post contains links GQfluffy : The Wings got it done, all you Wings fans out there. http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_yl...-redwings-stuart&prov=ap&type=lgns Brad Stuart signed a 4
56 Garnetpalmetto : That's not exactly adding insult to injury. Very few Pens fans expected Conks to stay on as a Pen past this year, especially once Fleury came back fr
57 WunalaYann : For sure. Mind you, I'm all for the development of the league. I am just concerned that climate conditions may not be as favourable in certain areas
58 Srbmod : A few updates: The Blackhawks signed Brian Campbell (8-years, $57.12 million) and Cristobal Huet (4-years, $22.5 million). I guess since the old man d
59 SandroZRH : The Islanders signed Montreal's Swiss defenseman Mark Streit to a five years contract ($20.5 Million). He finally decided in favor of the Islanders af
60 Post contains links Srbmod : If the Thrashers made an offer, they probably got laughed at. Well in the 2+ hours since my rant about the Thrashers, they finally sign someone, Ron
61 MillwallSean : And today the Rangers traded Lundqvists mate Bäckman to Columbus. Trading away someones good mate will cause a slump in form so dont pick Lundqvist i
62 WunalaYann : Montréal shot themselves in the knee with this one... Streit was pivotal in the Habs' resurgence, strong on the transition and their main power play
63 Srbmod : He was waived in November of 2005. What's funny is a few weeks prior to being traded, he was being interviewed on Sirius Satellite Radio's NHL Live (
64 YooYoo : he buggered up a play letting the other team score during a play-off game and the coach made an "emotional" call and benched him. The coach has regre
65 WunalaYann : Even better . Was that move made by Gainey? A picture of him kissing Martin Brodeur, maybe? Good move. Another guy entering his prime as a solid stay
66 JFK69 : In breaking news, the Islanders have signed Doug Weight to a one year deal. If this was 1998 then I would jump for joy.
67 Srbmod : It was reported in today's AJC that the Thrashers were rumored to have offered Campbell an 8 year, $60 million deal. He hasn't been the same since Ga
68 USPIT10L : We also inked wingers Miroslav Satan and Ruslan Fedotenko to one-year contracts. Not too bad for a few days' work, eh? The old ownership would never
69 Post contains links Srbmod : I'm still waiting for the day he signs with New Jersey........ Actually, it was a $7 year, $49 million deal. I found this nugget on the Las Vegas Rev
70 WunalaYann : He hasn't been younger than 35 since then... maybe there's a correlation there? I once believed that the Isles had a vision for their development - t
71 JFK69 : Ahhh...what could have been. Thanks Milbury, Thanks...... NY Islanders.....Practicing Mediocrity since 1994
72 WunalaYann : Indeed, this guy was given everything - money and decision-making power. And he managed to squander everything. Disgraceful.
73 Post contains links Srbmod : According to ESPN] Jagr has signed a deal with Avangard Omsk. Looks to be a 2 year deal and option year (At least that what I can glean off of a tran
74 JFK69 : I am curious to see how the Rags will perform without their playoff workhorse. Though he coasted during the season, he led the team in the playoffs in
75 WunalaYann : This is priceless !!! Can't believe Milbury is a TV analyst now... Jags is a gentleman, and a witty one at that. Too bad he took 17 years to come out
76 Post contains links Srbmod : Looks like the NHL is going to make the Winter Classic an annual event. Reports are that it will be the Red Wings and Blackhawks at Wrigley Field. Rep
77 JFK69 : Word around NY was the game was basically set but then the Yankees starting getting backlah that the final game at Yankee Stadium was going to be a h
78 N1120A : Lets not forget Gretzky, Robataille and McSorley The Kings were AEG's way of horning in on the Lakers.
79 A332 : Man... Todd Bertuzzi is a Calgary Flame... that's the worst news of all. Talk about getting the local fan base enraged. Bertuzzi has been consistently
80 WunalaYann : But considering Bertuzzi doesn't want to retire, I guess it behoved one GM to sign him, out of mercy, maybe. Now we will see whether or not Flames su
81 MillwallSean : The NHL is very keen on a deal with KHL. Apparently the IIHF, that has been transformed into nobodies, are desperatly trying to reach an agreement and
82 MillwallSean : The KHL story is developing even more. IIHF are screaming loud about what they want to do, fact is the IIHF doesnt have much power to wield. Since Rus
83 Post contains links JFK69 : And the laughingstock of the NHL continues to be the...........................NY Islanders. The Islanders today fired Head Coach Ted Nolan, with one
84 YooYoo : Are you sure about that? Signed Toronto Maple Leafs Fans As a Leaf fan, i feel what you are going through. We need some sort of support group, don't
85 JFK69 : Wow, Go back to the 2002 first round series and whoever thought that a Leafs fand and Isles fan could talk......Only in Hockey folks, only Hockey.
86 YooYoo : Well, if we lace up the skates and play, i'll take your head off but off the ice, i'll buy you a beer or three.
87 Srbmod : Who? Mike Milbury? I'm guessing Torts ends up coaching the Isles. Long shot pick: Bob Hartley. The Thrashers made yet another splash signing, signing
88 WunalaYann : 41 years of ineptitude, you certainly know a thing or two about being a laughingstock. Drowning your sorrow in alcohol already? The season hasn't sta
89 YooYoo : Cliff Fletcher, general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, announced Monday that the team has obtained left-winger Ryan Hollweg from the New York Ran
90 JFK69 : And do something good in the PR dept? No way in hell. I say Jack Capuano, Their AHL affiliate head coach gets the job. Or Rick Dipietro retires and t
91 YooYoo : Bryan Trottier gets my vote! for a 5th round pick.
92 Post contains links Srbmod : When's the last time the Isles made a decision that actually made sense? There are reports that the Kings may have found their new sucker Head Coach.
93 Post contains links YooYoo : Well, the 08/09 schedule was released yesterday and the Toronto Maple Leafs get to watch Detroit raise the Stanley Cup banner to the rafters. Wow, tha
94 Srbmod : I'm actually planning a road trip this season, as the Thrashers have a Saturday night game in January up in Nashville. Turns out the Lehtonen deal is
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