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Time To Start Talking About Pullout In Iraq  
User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

The violence is down considerably. The Iraqis seem to be working together. Their proposal to assume all security once all the provinences have been handed over to them seems reasonable. There will always be the malcontent that decides to blow himself up along with innocent bystanders, it just seems to be the way to vent frustation over there.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

The Iraqi proposal stipulates that, once Iraqi forces have resumed security responsibility in all 18 of Iraq's provinces, U.S.-led forces would then withdraw from all cities in the country.

After that, the country's security situation would be reviewed every six months, for three to five years, to decide when U.S.-led troops would pull out entirely, al-Adeeb said.


It sounds like a fair proposal and one I would hope the President would accept.

137 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Probably read in the papers tomorrow how McCain changed his mind on this, apparently there is video of him back in 2004 stating if the Iraq government doesn't want us there we should leave, apparently he stated something different today, something along the line, we will leave when we decide it safe to leave..

Meanwhile the strain on the military families these pass few years..and the US will need a few troops to chase the bad guys in the other war. (I used bad guys because I don't know who the good guys are anymore, its not Pakistan for sure).


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8299 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2764 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter):

It sounds like a fair proposal and one I would hope the President would accept.

I agree. Unfortunately all indications from this still-bullheaded White House are that they will not accept any proposal that isn't on their terms.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2732 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
Unfortunately all indications from this still-bullheaded White House are that they will not accept any proposal that isn't on their terms.

I am hopeful the President will see that there is no "set date" for leaving which is what he has been against all along, and I tended to agree with. With this proposal the U.S. troops pull back into base, many can be sent elsewhere, and the ones that are left can act as firemen if needed and called upon by the Iraqi government. After 5 years if things are running well we can reduce our force down to a token presence. I think he will see that this is the correct way once the military signs on to the plan. He seems to have leaned on thier advice for quite sometime.


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5870 posts, RR: 39
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2728 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 1):
Probably read in the papers tomorrow how McCain changed his mind on this, apparently there is video of him back in 2004 stating if the Iraq government doesn't want us there we should leave, apparently he stated something different today, something along the line, we will leave when we decide it safe to leave..

he also stated something along the lines of killing all the Iranians with US exported cigarettes...

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/07...ics/fromtheroad/entry4243139.shtml

anyways, that's the story your after about the Maliki proposal.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8299 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2718 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 3):
With this proposal the U.S. troops pull back into base, many can be sent elsewhere, and the ones that are left can act as firemen if needed and called upon by the Iraqi government.

Well we're in agreement on everything here. This has been happening a lot lately, must be something in the water!  Smile

Now of course, my only problem with this proposal, and should be the Administration's problem too since they started all of this, is that it's clear to everyone Maliki's true motivation here is pressure from hard-line Shia supporters as well as likely Iranian prodding. Like any politician, he's satisfying his base.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2714 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
This has been happening a lot lately, must be something in the water!

I think I'm still suffering the effects of that carbonated water they sell over in the Ukraine.  wink 

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
Like any politician, he's satisfying his base.

And I don't blame him a bit. Iraq is a sovereign nation with a freely elected government that is getting a handle on it's own security problems. Unless the violence picks up dramatically or the government collapses due to outside forces, the day has come where we can say we've done all we can and now it's up to them to make it work. The big problem I see now is their economy which is still just stitched together. If they can't find a way to make that work then security will be the least of their problems. They really do need to get their act together on their oil sales. They have a wonderful opportunity with oil being what it is price wise to help all their citizens.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2695 times:

Well the longer we are in Iraq means a shorter commute for US Troops when we invade Iran.

 Big grin  Big grin  Big grin  Big grin



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2677 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Well the longer we are in Iraq means a shorter commute for US Troops when we invade Iran.

I really hope we don't end up having to do that. Let's hope the Iranians are smarter than they let on.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2671 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 8):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Well the longer we are in Iraq means a shorter commute for US Troops when we invade Iran.

I really hope we don't end up having to do that. Let's hope the Iranians are smarter than they let on.

Believe me when I say that I hope so to. Though let's all hope that the idiot in the White House gets out before he gets a chance to act, once again.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11812 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

I can see it now:

BushCo will order the pullout of troops and be done with in by January 2009. Just in time for them to say "We did it! We were the best war administration ever!" Yet, leave trillions of dollars of debt (owed to China, Japan, and Saudi Arabia) and a failing economy, and resentment the world over to the next president.

Yeah... good job there, chief... /sarcasm



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6678 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2662 times:
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Just in time for the Election.. How convenient... I guess McSame's 100-year comment is not polling to well now-a-days anyway


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2661 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Well the longer we are in Iraq means a shorter commute for US Troops when we invade Iran.

Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin

That's the idea and Iraq isn't going for it, it is unlikely that Iraq will allow for US bases in the long term future because they don't want the US there.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2651 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter):
It sounds like a fair proposal and one I would hope the President would accept.

I agree with you. But it sounds like Imperious Leader wants to keep them there, and I think we all know the reason why. Care to guess? Hint: look to the east.


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2615 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
But it sounds like Imperious Leader wants to keep them there, and I think we all know the reason why. Care to guess? Hint: look to the east.

Actually I think he is waiting to hear from the military before making a decision. If they come back and say that the ground security situation continues to improve I believe he'll agree to the Iraqi program. Regardless something has to be hammered out, was going to have to be hammered out anyway, before the end of the year not because of an election, but because the UN mandate runs out then.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
BushCo will order the pullout of troops and be done with in by January 2009.

No he won't. He might sign on to the Iraqi agreement which does not involve a pull out but U.S. troops will be there for a few more years no matter who gets elected.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Yet, leave trillions of dollars of debt

News flash, we were already in debt, and will continue to pile up debt as long as Congress, no matter who is in charge, does nothing about runaway entitlement spending which dwarfs what we have spent in Iraq.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
and a failing economy,

Care to cite figures?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
and resentment the world over to the next president

Ah but the messiah will fix all that the day after he is inaugurated.  sarcastic 

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 9):
Though let's all hope that the idiot in the White House gets out before he gets a chance to act, once again.

Would you care to quote where this President has said he "wants" a chance to act militarily against Iran? So many people on this forum seem to have that as a foregone conclusion when he has never said any such thing.


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3880 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2611 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter):
Time To Start Talking About Pullout In Iraq

That'll put a damper on McCain's A Hundred Year War plan.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2606 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
Unfortunately all indications from this still-bullheaded White House are that they will not accept any proposal that isn't on their terms.

Well wasn't it us that saved that country from being ruled by a vicious dictator and gave them the chance to think and speak and vote for themselves? I think we have earned the right to have a say as to when we leave.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 8):
Let's hope the Iranians are smarter than they let on.

Smart? They want Isreal destroyed and will not stop till they either do it or we prevent them from doing it.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
But it sounds like Imperious Leader wants to keep them there, and I think we all know the reason why. Care to guess? Hint: look to the east.

Oh yea we are going to steal all their oil right?  sarcastic 


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2602 times:



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 15):
That'll put a damper on McCain's A Hundred Year War plan.

Continue the myth. Shame you don't take the time to get the facts.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2602 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
But it sounds like Imperious Leader wants to keep them there, and I think we all know the reason why. Care to guess? Hint: look to the east.

Oh yea we are going to steal all their oil right?

Has nothing to do with oil, Sherlock. It has to do with Iran.


User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2808 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2582 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 17):
Continue the myth. Shame you don't take the time to get the facts.

Here is what McCain said: Last month, at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, a crowd member asked McCain about a Bush statement that troops could stay in Iraq for 50 years.

"Maybe 100," McCain replied. "As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it's fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day."


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/14/mccain.king/


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2582 times:



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 19):
"As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it's fine with me

Which destroys the myth of a "100 year war".


User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2808 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2578 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 20):
Which destroys the myth of a "100 year war".

I won't dispute the possibility that what McCain said was taken out of context. But, doesn't it bother you when someone who has the potential of being our next Commander in Chief says it's "fine with me" when commenting on the possibility of our young men and women being deployed thousands of miles away for 100 years?


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3880 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2570 times:



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 21):
doesn't it bother you when someone who has the potential of being our next Commander in Chief says it's "fine with me" when commenting on the possibility of our young men and women being deployed thousands of miles away for 100 years?

For a self-professed foreign policy expert that's a pretty poor prognostication. He missed by over 90 years.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2557 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
It has to do with Iran.

Yes, I guess we are going to invade them for no reason right?  sarcastic 


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3880 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2555 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Yes, I guess we are going to invade them for no reason right?

Nope, but like Iraq for made up reason.



Ain't I a stinker?
25 Mir : Chest-thumping doesn't make Iraq any better. We've been taking an active role in there long enough (and it was us who let the place slide into disast
26 Luv2fly : If you believe otherwise more power to ya! Look at it this way if he gets us into a war with Iran he can be known as the President that got us into T
27 Falcon84 : Did you read the other Iran thread going on, where reports our out that Mr. Bush is bound and determined to launch an attack on Iran before he leaves
28 RJdxer : As opposed to Germany, Japan, Korea, Bosnia......... Considering his public stance has not change one iota in the past two years from whom is this "r
29 Aaron747 : Are you somehow completely unaware that the SOFA currently under negotiation calls for 40 years of US exclusivity for several Iraqi bases? What an ar
30 Tbird : Nick we DO NOT have a right to say when we are going to leave...its not our country. Bush has said time and time again that if the Iraqi gov't asked
31 NIKV69 : Bush is not determined to launch an attack on Iran. He is making sure Iran doesn't attack Isreal or develop a nuclear weapon which would be a disaste
32 Tbird : Nick who ever mentioned Codepink? Codepink isn't in Baghdad's Parliament asking for the U.S to pull out! The Iraqis are..its their country and if the
33 Baroque : Reality check for some of the more ambitious, as far as is known, Iran is not negotiating with the US on its withdrawal from Iraq and as yet, Iran doe
34 NorCal : I really hope we do what the UK did before we bankrupt ourselves like the Soviet Union. I would like nothing more than for us to step away from the w
35 RJdxer : That's a nice thought but unfortunately recent history has shown us something different. Remember that period between January 2001 and September 2001
36 Falcon84 : I think if you said that statement to most Iraqi's, you'd get the shit beat out of you. The don't see us as saviors over there, NIK. They see us as i
37 Falcon84 : And, NIK, we haven't "earned the right to have a say in when we leave." Again, that is so smug and arrogant as to be an incredible insult to the peopl
38 Flighty : But what about all the damage we caused? I think we owe a lot of long-term reparations to Iraq. It might actually be difficult for us to earn enough m
39 Baroque : That parallels the logic against involvement in Vietnam in the early part of that war when the shambolic state of S Vietnam had yet to become evident
40 AGM100 : OH now I am sure the government of Iraq will be up for this after we pull out. No worries the Islamic governments really are beacons of social justic
41 Falcon84 : Oh, I'm not going to bet the farm on that. Maybe it'll change your view of George W. Bush, and the mess he's made for two nations. Ours and theirs. T
42 Seb146 : Huh? The United States has a HUGE public relations fiasco on it's hands and has since BushCo deiced to invade Iraq for no good reason. It could have
43 NorCal : You don't have to start wars in the middle east to prevent terrorism. On the contrary all we have really done in Iraq is train the next generation of
44 AGM100 : Falcon you know how I feel.. Saved them is not the words I would use but our effort their is not without merit. Our troops have given the Iraqi peopl
45 NIKV69 : Probably not. I sure saw a lot of them happy to see us when we toppled the statue and when they voted for the first time. Of course we won't talk abo
46 Seb146 : That sounds like what Clinton (supported by testimony from Oliver North) wanted to do to Afganistan. Then, came a stained blue dress.... Sounds like
47 RJdxer : I would much rather have a public relations fiasco than a national security fiasco. What France or Germany thinks of what we do to protect ourselves
48 Itsjustme : I thought our mission was to "Fight (the terrorists) there so we don't have to fight them here". Or was it to rid Saddam of those pesky WMDs?
49 NorCal : Republicans made that into a huge deal preventing such a plan from being implemented. Then the punishment for leaking national secrets should be trea
50 AGM100 : Yep, and their is no doubt our boys did that and are doing that. Something important has happened , in Iraq we and the Iraqis share a comon enemy now
51 DocLightning : Bush? Before we came in, Hussein was far too much of an egomaniac to allow Al Qaeda in. He was many things, but a terrorist no. He was way too proud
52 Luv2fly : You hit the nail on the head. Bush went in as judge, jury and executioner!
53 AGM100 : More danger then when we were doing nothing ? That did not work either... and its only your opinion. Thank god I have not spoke to a soldier who agre
54 RJdxer : ???? Which battle did we lose in Vietnam. It certainly wasn't a military one. And yet somehow we are winning. Correct. And it's not so much they don'
55 StuckInCA : What did we win in Vietnam? What are we winning in Iraq? A cookie?
56 AGM100 : 550 Tones of Yellow Cake just moved out of Iraq .. can only find a few "buried" news stories on it and certainly no posts on here. Amazing If POS Bus
57 Post contains links StuckInCA : I think you're making more out of the yellowcake than you should. It wasn't just found. It was just moved. From the linked article: "Israeli warplane
58 Flighty : By that logic we will need to invade over 30 countries. are you really serious... that is a lame excuse for killing so many people against their will
59 Falcon84 : It's completely without out merit, and the whole thing from the beginning ran against everything this nation-the United States that is-is supposed to
60 AGM100 : I am not making a big deal at all , I was kidding . I understand the story of the yellow cake perfectly . But the average Bush hater probably thinks
61 RJdxer : We won every major battle U.S. troops were engaged in, including the Tet Offensive. What we lost was the media war here at home, same as we have in t
62 StuckInCA : I suppose that may be the case, but at the end of the day, what did we really win? That's not why we claimed to be going there. And by claiming that
63 Flighty : Who cares anyway? Isn't it about time our attention-deficit disorder nation got distracted by something else? Wont we just forget about Iraq in a cou
64 Aaron747 : Saddam and his terrible kids were a stabilizing force at a crossroads of Sunni and Shia chaos. You think Iran would be nearly as assertive right now
65 RJdxer : We didn't win but the neither the NVA or Viet Cong beat us, we beat ourselves much as we are still trying to do today. We are experts at snatching vi
66 Aaron747 : On the contrary, I think the hard-line elements in the Iranian government couldn't be happier that Saddam is gone and are willing to forgive all sinc
67 RJdxer : Outside of some militia groups I haven't heard the government praising their interference either. Malaki and his group have power. They are no t goin
68 Flighty : Can't I? Sure I can, he should be accountable for issuing these illegal commands. I never supported this dumb fake "war" and neither did Barack Obama
69 Baroque : The US won most battles (I think every is a bit of an exaggeration) that it thought it was fighting. Although, the VC and the N Viet army lost those
70 RJdxer : If you would care to name a battle above company size engagements which can be fought from ambush, I'd be willing to listen. Their sole aim was too o
71 Post contains links Baroque : To which I can but reply - exactly for example: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_did_Germany_blame_for_losing_World_War_1 A few perceptive commentators
72 Arrow : As one of those spoiled brats, I can't tell you how proud I am of that accomplishment -- though I think you give us far too much credit. Truth be kno
73 RJdxer : Funny how when I use analogies to WW2 that is somehow not allowed. BS. Had we pressed as hard as we could the North Vietnamese would have been destro
74 DavestanKSAN : Oh please, get over yourself. What about liberals in the military? Do they not count? Dave
75 Arrow : I can see that this is going to turn into a pi**ing match, but I consider what the "liberal" faction did in the 60s and 70s was of far more service t
76 RJdxer : They are serving their country. How they managed the two is theirs to deal with. As I said: Yet you can somehow string together a bunch of half truth
77 Baroque : There you go, getting WW II analogies wrong again. The US did indeed have Pearl Harbour coming - or something like - due to its oil embargo. It was 1
78 QANTAS077 : are you for serious or are you altogether zonked in the head? ever heard of Zyklon B? let me guess, that doesn't count as a WMD?
79 Post contains links RJdxer : Of course the Japanese demands that led to the embargo had nothing to do with its implementation. http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/DEI_oil.ht
80 RJdxer : BTW, using this analogy should the Iranians block the straight of Hormuz, I guess we are then free to turn their country into a sheet of green glass
81 Post contains links RJdxer : And now they are. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/wa...1&hp=&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
82 STT757 : Credit is due to the President for the surge, it's worked. However most of the credit goes to Secretary Gates, General Petraeus, General Odierno and e
83 Post contains links STT757 : Get more troops to Afghanistan! Nine US Soldiers killed in insurgent attack. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080713/ap_on_re_as/afghanistan
84 Falcon84 : That's apparently what's going to happen. Unfortunately, the President took his eyes off the real war on Terror, 5 years ago, to go after his quest f
85 RJdxer : As long as the Taliban can use Pakistan as a rest and refit point that war will continue unabated no matter how many troops we put into the country.
86 Falcon84 : Agreed, 100%. But that doesn't change the fact that your heroes in the White House took their eye off the real fight to play cowboy in Iraq. Had the
87 Aaron747 : Bush also didn't learn a thing from the man quoted in my sig as well.
88 RJdxer : Perhaps I wasn't clear. As long as the Taliban can use Pakistan as a safe point from which to rest and refit no amount of troops on the ground is goi
89 Aaron747 : Whichever it is - removing a dictator who poses some kind of security threat or inducing a terror-friendly power vaccuum to "fight them over there",
90 Falcon84 : But 5 years ago, the Taliban weren't using Pakistan, because they were mostly on the run in Afghanistan. We took away the troops from there, that cou
91 Baroque : So true Falcon, but you may as well save your breath to cool your porridge. The ripping is one part, attempts to acquire oil reserves will also be a
92 RJdxer : We will have to agree to disagree. The points of why we went there have been gone over so many times I'm tired of repeating them. Will you please ple
93 Aaron747 : Nothing you can say changes the fact that we took aggressive action without being attacked by anyone. That cannot and will not ever be in dispute, th
94 RJdxer : Then our entry into WW1 was an aggressive action since the United States had not been attacked by Germany. Our entry into the European theater of war
95 Post contains links Baroque : So back to 2003 in Iraq is winning! I thought the last time it was declared Mission Accomplished it was a little premature. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi
96 RJdxer : Compared to 2007, 2006, 2005, and 2004 are attacks up or down?
97 Post contains links Arrow : A couple of ships went to the bottom with Americans on them, as I recall; and wasn't there a sweetheart deal between the Kaiser and Mexico? How many
98 DavestanKSAN : So you admit your little, usual rant against liberals was out of line? You admit there are liberals that are serving, and have served our country? Le
99 RJdxer : Not an attack on America. If killing Americans were an excuse for war we would have been at war with Mexico within at least the last decade. Still no
100 Aaron747 : I can't believe you're using these examples. WWI and WW2 were a completely different ballgame - our major trading partners were attacked and transatl
101 RJdxer : Using the definition you used to describe aggression they were not.
102 Aaron747 : Not enough coffee this morning then - let's expand it to include direct attacks on our major trading partners and shipping lanes.
103 DavestanKSAN : Why is my opinion less valid because I haven't served? Did you or did you not insult a lot of liberal Servicemen and women? Do you have the capacity
104 Arrow : I had to go look, but here you go. in all cases, before Dec. 7. You couldn't have searched very hard, although I was pretty sure about the Reuben Jam
105 Aaron747 : So far there haven't been any public reports of opposition to Maliki's buddy meetings with Ahmadinejad.
106 CX747 : Jeez, a whole lot of the same blah blah blah from the same posters. McCain's statements were taken out of context. He didn't have a problem with US tr
107 RJdxer : Because you haven't served, so you have not idea of what it is like to do so, just as I have no idea what it is like to be a priest. I don't know, no
108 Arrow : Wrong assumption. I was in the US with a green card, as a student. I never became a citizen, and came home after graduation. But I worked hard in the
109 RJdxer : That's a good thing since hell and I ain't talking about Hell MI either, would be completely frozen over before I would.
110 Seb146 : As opposed to things like bloating the military, Department of Homeland Security, TSA.... How are those things helping the average American that has
111 RJdxer : Providing for a common defense is mandated in the Constitution. SS, medicare, and medicaid are not. Perhaps if Congress were to actually do something
112 Post contains links Baroque : A bit more success seems to have arrived for the Iraqis today. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7506749.stm At least 35 people have been killed
113 Seb146 : We are still waiting on how invading Iraq is providing for the common defense of the United States. al Qaida was not a force in Iraq until AFTER the
114 RJdxer : Perhaps you should check the percentages of just who pays how much of what. Besides that is a topic for another thread. No matter how you try and dis
115 Baroque : I think the same holds for Jordan.
116 Aaron747 : US corporate taxes are the second-highest in the developed world...what are you talking about? I could say the same about the general thrust of your
117 Seb146 : We are still waiting for the answer as to why Iraq is the enemy? Why was Iraq invaded? There was no threat from Iraq. Where were all the huge al-Qaid
118 RJdxer : Which is why I didn't bother to answer. You are locked into your view and nothing will change that so why bother. I was against a pull out of the tro
119 Post contains links RJdxer : And with today's announcement the beginning of the end is in sight. While victory still remains to be won, success is obviously in hand. I congratulat
120 Seb146 : IIRC, there was no "equally poor" under Clinton's tax-and-spend terms. IIRC, yes, taxes went up, but so did personal spending. People could actually
121 AGM100 : Guerrilla warfare 101... force them to come to you and crush them : Al Qaida played along perfectly , their tactics of terrorizing people backfired o
122 Seb146 : But, they were nearly surrounded in Afganistan. We knew they were in Afganistan, and Bush decided to pull troops to invade Iraq. We still know they a
123 AGM100 : NOTHING ?? You honestly think that Al Qaida operatives are not a bit more worried than they were pre 911. ? Seb I dont expect you to give the Preside
124 Post contains links RJdxer : Two things. One, I can decide what, if anything I want to spend my money on when it comes to personal spending. I have no say when my money is taken
125 Post contains links Itsjustme : http://www.insiderreports.com/storyp...Q_ChanID_E_HU_A_StoryID_E_20012775 According to the most recent U.S. Census data, 62 million households in the
126 RJdxer : I will admit most homes now have computers, the comparison is still invalid.
127 Seb146 : Let me paint a picture of Oregon, since that is where I live. The "average" apartment in one of the metro areas goes for about $600 a month. Electric
128 RJdxer : You are leaving out section 8 apartments in your figures. And you can keep on asking. I have answered many times over but you don't agree so I won't
129 Baroque : Well Al Q found it excellent as a training ground and it looks as it they are now combining improved technical skills in the area of bombs (aka, IEDs
130 Seb146 : But, the applicant has to be a certain percent below poverty level and have children. As a single man, I could not qualify for Section 8. It looks to
131 Baroque : I don't Seb, I don't. I should have made it clear that under Saddam it was a singularly lousy training ground for Al Q. In fact the only reps on the
132 Post contains links STT757 : While any loss of life is tragic, to go from 66 killed in action in July 2007 to 5 killed in action for July 2008 is an amazing sign of progress. http
133 RJdxer : But you could qualify for a room mate which is how many singles have lived for decades. To suggest there are no options as a minimum wage worker is j
134 AirStairs : I have a lot of confidence in the Iranian people, but little in the government that hardly represents their values. I see Israel in the same way. I a
135 Baroque : YES BUT! The US should seriously think about supporting the Iraqi hospital system for some time and I notice that employment is being found for some
136 AirStairs : I have little reason to believe that the next commander in chief will be any more adroit at balancing the primary interests of Americans with a popul
137 AirStairs : Now I am a bit worried you are being melodramatic. The intent of the war was to disarm Iraq and prevent future development of chemical, biological, n
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