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Why All These Knife Attacks In London?  
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10864 posts, RR: 38
Posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

There seems to be more and more knife attacks (stabbings) in and around London. Some victims like the two young French scientists are being stabbed to death and it seems that these attacks are becoming frequent. This is horrible.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7501258.stm

Four stabbed to death on same day

Four men, including a teenager, were stabbed to death in one day in separate attacks in London.

A 19-year-old youth, who has not been named, suffered multiple stab wounds in Edmonton, north London.

Later on Thursday two men in their 20s were killed in attacks a few miles away in Leyton and Walthamstow, east London.

A man in his 40s died from stab wounds after being found at the back of a disused pub in Tottenham High Road, Tottenham, north London.


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

There are so many stabbings because guns are illegal... Gun control works...  Cool


The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29788 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2305 times:

Honesty...gun control.

People aren't able to defend themselves from criminals who aren't able to afford black market weapons.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Neither of the above.

Not every answer is guns.

Knife crime has certainly spiralled out of control this year, and noone really knows the answer.

For sure if guns were in circulation - the problem would be FAR worse.

All of these knifing incidents are in run down, poor areas, with high levels of violence (not just knife crime). With guns, we would be seeing a news story every hour.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29788 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2292 times:



Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 3):
All of these knifing incidents are in run down, poor areas, with high levels of violence (not just knife crime).

See, I think the same way, it is a society issue, not the tool used.

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 3):

Knife crime has certainly spiralled out of control this year, and noone really knows the answer.

From what I have heard there is now a movement by some of your doctors to ban "pointy" knives.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSBBRTech From Brazil, joined Jul 2007, 722 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2278 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
People aren't able to defend themselves from criminals who aren't able to afford black market weapons.

How many of these attacks were related to self-defense? I'd guess they just couldn't reach a gun at the moment and had to do it with knives.



"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10864 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2272 times:

Mr Bonomo, a student in the proteins that cause infectious disease, had been stabbed 196 times, with up to half the wounds inflicted after he was dead. Mr Ferez, who hoped to become an expert in ecofriendly fuels, had 47 separate injuries.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4265622.ece

Is New Cross also a run down and poor area with high levels of violence?

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 3):
All of these knifing incidents are in run down, poor areas, with high levels of violence




There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

The reason for all these killings is because youths think its cool to have a knife and there is no deterrent. If you kill someone here you serve a very pathetic sentence or don't even get caught. I live in east London and commute across London and its clear to see, the criminals are stabbing people because they can without fear.
These incidents have largely been confined within the young black male community who constantly blame society for the way they are behaving saying "they have nothing to do except turn to crime"

Not a day goes by without at least one person being stabbed to death in London now and its continually increasing, yet if the police increase stop and search everybody claims its racist to predominantly stop black youths but the figures speak for themselves, it is predominantly black youths killing each other. Not middle class white kids who they seem to always stop at stations allowing the hoodies to walk straight through in order to meet equality and diversity targets.


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2226 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Is New Cross also a run down and poor area with high levels of violence?

New Cross is very run down and is over-represented with immigrants, but it doesn't have a dangerous reputation yet. However, I really hate meeting friends there and I don't like changing trains there after dark or walking back to my car.

Goldsmith's College is round there so lots of students knocking around in the pubs and stuff. Still a bit menacing in places and you would have to be very careful.


User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

It probably started out with just a couple of people carrying, then other people though they have to carry one for self defence, then before you know it just about everyone is carrying a blade. Apparently there is also more chance of the blade being used against you even if you are carrying it for self defence !!.


It's also partly PC gone mad. The Police are between a rock and a hard place because of it and also because of the pathetic sentances handed out by senile judges who live in mansions in the country where that kind of thing doesn't happen !!.

Also the lack of morals in society these days, in a society where teenage girls aspire to be glamour models or footballers wives and guys just want what the footballers have, but don't want to work to get it. We have the highest teenage pregnacy rates in Europe, where these young girls are having kids, but are little more than kids themselves and let their offspring run wild without any form of dicipline and often a lack of a father figure in the child's life doesn't help either.

The kids feel helpless and alone and turn to the gangs who then become their "family". If these young men feel that they are safe in an environment with their peers around them, there is another option where they can feel secure and actually help society by learning morals and discipline - BRING BACK NATIONAL SERVICE !!!.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5619 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2188 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 1):
There are so many stabbings because guns are illegal... Gun control works...



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 1):
Honesty...gun control.

People aren't able to defend themselves from criminals who aren't able to afford black market weapons

You guys just love stories like this, don't you? One of the reasons stabbings are up is that kids are fearful for their safety and carrying knives for protection, and, unfortunately, they use them. The situation would be far worse if they were carrying guns instead of knives. Note that these attacks are in what are generally considered less-than-safe areas.

I hate to disappoint you guys, but an increase in incidents like this will NOT have people clamouring for the right to carry even more dangerous weapons. The way to go will be through increased policing, and spot-checks, until the problem is eliminated, or at least reduce to "acceptable" levels.


User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2157 times:



Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 9):
BRING BACK NATIONAL SERVICE !!!.

You must be joking, Why should I have to do National Service. I respect the country but have no interest what so ever in having any connection or commitment to our armed forces. I work hard at college why should i have to go through national service because some backward children can't control themselves.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3527 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2152 times:



Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 7):
The reason for all these killings is because youths think its cool to have a knife and there is no deterrent. If you kill someone here you serve a very pathetic sentence or don't even get caught. I live in east London and commute across London and its clear to see, the criminals are stabbing people because they can without fear.
These incidents have largely been confined within the young black male community who constantly blame society for the way they are behaving saying "they have nothing to do except turn to crime"

Our judicial system is beyond contempt. All decisions on whether to prosecute rest with the Crown Prosecution Service who appear to be only interested in their success rate, thus they decline to take many cases to court leaving the Police to wonder why they bother to arrest miscreants in the 1st place. Then if they do decide to prosecute they often accept a guilty plea for a lesser offence in place of the original charge as they think this is "in the public interest" By this system an attempted murder results in a conviction for assault. Finally the judges are working to sentencing guidelines which are totally wet and result in custodial sentences for only the most serious crimes.

An example of our sentencing policy can be seen from the recent Naomi Campbell case, she received 200 hours community service and a paltry fine due to her previous good character and lack of criminal record, because the judge would be hauled over the coals if he had taken into consideration her US conviction or long history of abusive behaviour which hadn't resulted in a conviction.


User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2143 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 10):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 1):
There are so many stabbings because guns are illegal... Gun control works...



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 1):
Honesty...gun control.

People aren't able to defend themselves from criminals who aren't able to afford black market weapons

You guys just love stories like this, don't you?

No I don't love it, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why the news in the UK is about stabbings... Gun don't kill people... Take away the guns, the people will still kill people...

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 12):
Our judicial system is beyond contempt. All decisions on whether to prosecute rest with the Crown Prosecution Service who appear to be only interested in their success rate, thus they decline to take many cases to court leaving the Police to wonder why they bother to arrest miscreants in the 1st place. Then if they do decide to prosecute they often accept a guilty plea for a lesser offence in place of the original charge as they think this is "in the public interest" By this system an attempted murder results in a conviction for assault. Finally the judges are working to sentencing guidelines which are totally wet and result in custodial sentences for only the most serious crimes.

Where I live, criminals do hard time. Possess a gun during a felony, 10 years... Fire it, 20 years, injure someone, Life... No early release... And victims are allowed to shoot first...



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

I think this calls for an immediate ban on knives in the UK.

User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2132 times:



Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 11):
Why should I have to do National Service. I respect the country but have no interest what so ever in having any connection or commitment to our armed forces. I work hard at college why should i have to go through national service because some backward children can't control themselves

Point taken, however rather than being restricted soley to the armed forces, people could choose to do it in a certain area such as caring for the elderly, or helping out on community projects etc as well as having the military option for those that choose that route ?.

Just idea's, as the government doesn't seem to be doing anything about it !!.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5619 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 days ago) and read 2102 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 13):
No I don't love it, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why the news in the UK is about stabbings... Gun don't kill people...

The same tired old cliché . . . if you say it often enough I suppose you'll actually believe it.

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
I think this calls for an immediate ban on knives in the UK

Why? Knives have many useful purposes.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 days ago) and read 2093 times:



Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
I think this calls for an immediate ban on knives in the UK.



Why cause when we have a shooting the NRA supprters always call for more guns, cause even if guns are the problem, more guns have to be the solution. So with that same logic then more knifes for everyone.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineJoshSixtySeven From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Another example of how everything hits the fan when you let an unelected Scotsman run things.

Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming anyone for the things that go on in London these days, but it's outrageous that you can't have some form of self defense weapon.

Better yet, let's get stringent with offenders, and give our police forces both the man power and the weaponary to go and target these thugs in the places they reside. I remember seeing some whistle blower type thing a year or so ago, in which a cop spoke out about how his force wouldn't dare go into known gang hang outs as he knew they'd be massacred.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd sure feel safer being allowed to carry either my telescopic baton or a gun.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2073 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):

Probably because they didn't have guns to shoot each other with instead.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 10):
One of the reasons stabbings are up is that kids are fearful for their safety and carrying knives for protection, and, unfortunately, they use them.

And how does that make it any different from any other country?



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2057 times:



Quoting JoshSixtySeven (Reply 18):
Better yet, let's get stringent with offenders,

I definitely get the impression that the UK is sometimes way too lenient when it comes to prison sentences, just as the US is sometimes way too strict. But be careful what you wish for.

The reality is that changing a sentence from 10 to 20 years or 25 years to life makes little difference. All you really accomplish by keeping people past age 60 or so is wasting money.

Of course sending a repeat offender to jail for a week means nothing. Sentences are punishments, but they also serve to reduce the risk to society. Sentences have to be long enough that they're feared. For some serious offenders (repeat violent offenders) sentences need to continue until age has pacified the person.

Longer jail terms generally get a decreasing return on investment. The fear, and thus deterrent effect, of a possible jail term increases far less than linearly with its length, while the cost to the government increases more than linearly.

The US example shows some of the problems you get with long jail terms. People that get long prison terms for things like drug possession, theft, etc., especially for a first offense, become better criminals in jail. Many lose important family bonds, jobs, etc., things that they need to stay away from crime. Thankfully the UK does not seem to suffer from the reactionary criminal justice policies seen in the US. All too often we react to a single crime in the news, or a perceived epidemic of some sort with calls for doubling prison terms, etc.

I don't say this out of sympathy for offenders, but as a citizen that does not want the government to waste money on prisons. The US has a massive incarceration rate (and cost). What does it get us?

Quoting JoshSixtySeven (Reply 18):
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd sure feel safer being allowed to carry either my telescopic baton or a gun.

Sure, but I'd feel a lot more scared of the borderline thugs that would start carrying those things if they were legal. There are plenty of "law abiding" people out there who would become much more dangerous when armed. Having a weapon can mean the difference between ignoring a perceived insult and having the guts to "stand up" to the offender.

I trust myself with a weapon, but I sure as hell don't trust everyone else, even if they know that I might be armed.


User currently offlineVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2037 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 13):
Where I live, criminals do hard time. Possess a gun during a felony, 10 years... Fire it, 20 years, injure someone, Life... No early release... And victims are allowed to shoot first...

That's why I love the American Judicial system over the British one!  thumbsup 


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13010 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

One also has to consider the high rates of youth unemployment, broken families, lousy schools, weakened cops, the drug trade and what seems to be much higher rates of mental illness today in the UK, like in some areas of the USA.
Get the young into 'make work' jobs if on the dole instead of importing workers or some type of paid community service. Make decisions to revise the criminal sentencing laws and remove judges that don't do the job. Allow more patrol cops to carry guns on their person. Go after the drug trade that leads to a lot of crime in general. Deal with mental illness better instead of giving some ill person some meds and letting them out on the street without proper support.


User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2024 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 13):
Where I live, criminals do hard time.

Hard time costs us money, both direct costs and indirect costs (lower tax revenue, more welfare for the prisoner's family, etc.). A lot of the people doing hard time really are not worth the money required to lock them up. The trick is figuring out who's worth the money. Mandatory hard time is, for many crimes and criminals, mandatory wasted money.

The problem is if you shorten 100 sentences (say via parole) and produce 99 productive, law abiding citizens and 1 violent repeat offender (yes, the numbers are idealized), that 1 will make the news and lead to calls for longer sentences and the elimination of parole.


User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3617 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1996 times:



Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 7):
I live in east London and commute across London and its clear to see, the criminals are stabbing people because they can without fear.

When I lived in East London there were lots of places I would avoid being at during night-time or sometimes even during the day. New Cross to the south of where I lived is very bad. One of my friends that lived near New Cross Gate was stabbed in a nighbus, on his thigh and the criminal involved didn't even want to mug him.


25 Allrite : The British justice system has been hamstrung ever since the Australian government implemented restrictions like skills tests on immigrants from the U
26 Davehammer : Before I start I will say how horrible it must be for the victims of violent crime anywhere, and they all have my sympathies. One of the reasons for t
27 ThePRGuy : Yes - you could argue that. Hence why most of this violence occurs in run down, poor areas. You really want to give them guns?
28 Bongodog1964 : Here in the UK we are told that the purpose of prisons is to rehabilitate people, not to keep them from harming the innocent; anyone else think this
29 DC10extender : Well, I can't exactly speak for Britain but these things are usually the cause of liberal judges giving very lenient punishments to law breakers. At l
30 Mir : Most gun-rights supporters on here say that banning guns doesn't lead to less gun violence because criminals will still be able to get guns, and can
31 MD11Engineer : The best deterrent, besides a punishment fitting the crime, is the knowledge that you WILL be caught, that you will NOT be able to get away with it a
32 Baroque : Flavour of the month is certainly a factor. I can remember a time - but vague when but probably early 50s when there was a great fuss about knife cri
33 Egmcman : Whilst I agree about the deaths the problem is not isolated to London say it happens in many of our cities such as Manchester , Leeds & Birmingham. I
34 Analog : But give them Segways, otherwise how are they going to gain weight? In my last residence I noted during a parade that there was a very strong correla
35 Virgin744 : Unfortunately, UK judges can only sentence criminals to the length of prison term thats written in the books for the crime in question. For example,
36 BCAL : Immigrants, particularly those from Eastern Europe and former Communist countries, think nothing about carrying knives on them in public. With a flood
37 Bill142 : Just put them on a ship and send them to Australia Signed 1787
38 JJJ : Guns (especially handguns, shotguns are fare more common) are extremely uncommon. If you're carrying for protection, when you know your likely oppone
39 SeansasLCY : In London it is nothing whatsoever to do with Eastern Europeans. A majority of those involved are Black. Most of them have also been born and raised
40 Metroliner : There are too many factors to name a single one - however, if you yourself were a poor, disaffected youngster with little education, constant exposur
41 BCAL : Metroliner no offence was intended and I apologise if you found my statement insulting. Of course many Eastern European immigrants are law abiding UK
42 Metroliner : Okay, none taken, apology accepted - no sense in being overly sensitive "The vast majority of"? No doubt anyone arming themselves is escalating the p
43 Analog : It takes real effort to kill a bystander with a knife. Guns, not so much. In a nation where criminals rarely have guns, police are much less likely t
44 Babybus : For most of these people they seem intent to replicate their genetic home country. I don't think it is a surprise to know that gun and knife crime is
45 Baroque : No we voted him out last year, the Nauru camp is closed, probably so is Nauru come to that. I rather think that in spite of Ronnie Biggs, the stats a
46 Post contains links MadameConcorde : The Observer, Sunday July 20, 2008 Another stab death as police call for more search powers London's increasing reputation as the stabbing capital of
47 Johns624 : Would you like to explain how? The only realistic defense that I can think of is to run like hell and hope that you're faster than them.
48 Egmcman : Glasgow is Western Europe's capital actually it was on today's edition of the One Show on the BBC.
49 Wingscrubber : Too many idle over-aggressive youths, 'chavs' and the 'afro-brits' (playing on the 'african american term') are the main culprits. They are arming the
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