Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Obama's Trip To Berlin Becomes US Campaign Issue  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7054 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 21 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

I am interested to know what our American users think about the discussion regarding Obama's visit to Berlin:

Quote:

The heated debate over Barack Obama's planned appearance in Berlin appears to have crossed the Atlantic to become a campaign issue at home. It's unlikely now that he will appear in front of the Brandenburg Gate.
.....
he fact that German Chancellor Angela Merkel is less than thrilled about the idea, has made the rounds in the American media. But Obama, casually dressed in an buttondown shirt without a tie, appeared very relaxed. "We have been trying to coordinate with the folks on the ground in terms of finding an appropriate site, but we didn't have a particular site in mind," Obama said according to the paper. "I want to make sure that my message is heard as opposed to creating new controversy. Our goal is for me to lay out how I think about the next administration's role in rebuilding a trans-Atlantic alliance. I don't want the venue to be a distraction."
...
Bill Galston, once a close advisor to Bill Clinton, complained in the Daily Telegraph that the Obama campaign had been "a bit naïve." And the popular Web site Politico quoted an American in Berlin advising the German government on the visit saying that if Obama were to come and give the speech at the Brandenburg Gate against Merkel's wishes, it could be seen as "arrogant" and "presumptuous." And letters from readers posted on Republican Party-aligned Web sites see Obama's ambitious speech plans as evidence of a Democratic presidential candidate they feel is completely self-enamored.

....
The Brandenburg Gate presented the perfect stage for Obama to underscore the potential for quickly repairing America's tarnished reputation in Europe. "Americans are particularly concerned about the loss of trust in countries like Germany, which were key allies for so long. And Berlin and the Brandenburg Gate will have special symbolic importance," Stephen Szabo of the German Marshall Fund in Washington told SPIEGEL ONLINE. In his Berlin speech, Obama wants to promote a new beginning for trans-Atlantic relations.
...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,565708,00.html

For those who don't know why Merkel is against the speech at the Brandenburg Gate

Quote:

The warning from the Chancellery was clear: The Brandenburg Gate is the "most famous and history-rich location in Germany," a Chancellery source said on Monday. In the past, it has only been used on very special occasions for addresses by politicians, and when, then only by elected American presidents. More clearly stated: Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama would be better off looking for another location in the German capital to hold a speech.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,564635,00.html


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 20 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

Obama is trying to catch up to McCain's globetrotting. All of the time Obama and Clinton were duking it out, McCain was doing a lot of overseas work, ostensibly in his role as a senator, appearing grown-up while the two Democrats were appearing quite childish and flinging poo at each other. Now Obama feels like he needs to appear Presidential, not understanding that sometimes you can go too far.

There are a lot of Clintonites who are mad at Obama for acting arrogant about his nomination during the primaries. He's trying to act now like he's got the final election in hand in the same manner.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21388 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (6 years 17 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

It is perfectly okay for Obama to hold a speech and I have no doubts that he would be very welcome to the Berliners.

The Brandenburg Gate is just a place which is a level above what you'd offer for a campaign visit.

For an appearance of the next US president it could be quite appropriate — once he's actually elected.

I don't think there could be anything you'd call a "conflict" over the venue for an Obama speech; It's just a minor protocol issue and it should not be overdramatized.


User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

This is either complete arrogance or complete
stupidity on the Obama campain's part.
As much "enthusiasm" the Germans might have
for him, he is not being elected by them.
If he wants to have a campaign rally (which this is)
he can rent out the Velodom or some other venue.
And if the Rotes Rathaus gives the OK on this, it
will be used against him here in the U.S. by his
opponents as "Obama in conjuction with the left-wing
Berlin government holds a campaign rally in Europe
promoting a U.N.-style type of governance for the world."

By the way, if this goes through, does this mean that
anyone running for public office from another country
can use the Brandenburg Gate for their own political
purposes. I can't wait to hear Jorg Haider's "I Have A
Dream" speach from the balcony of the Adlon Hotel.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3826 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
...McCain was doing a lot of overseas work, ostensibly in his role as a senator, appearing grown-up

...and missing a lot of votes in the Senate.

Votes: 382 votes missed (62.3%), 231 votes cast

[Edited 2008-07-15 14:34:23]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7940 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2266 times:



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 3):
he can rent out the Velodom or some other venue.
And if the Rotes Rathaus gives the OK on this, it
will be used against him here in the U.S. by his
opponents as "Obama in conjuction with the left-wing
Berlin government

Wow, somebody really knows a thing or two on Berlin.

I think the Gendarmenmarkt would be an appropriate place.

Anyway, if I were Mr. McCain and got elected, I would not forget to send Senator Obama a postcard from the Brandenburg Gate after my speech there.  mischievous 



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1329 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2248 times:



Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
I am interested to know what our American users think about the discussion regarding Obama's visit to Berlin:

I personally disliked the idea from the get-go, as the Brandenburg Tor is a symbol too significant and deeply rooted in Germany's history to be used as a political rally. It would be the equivalent of a Mexican presidential candidate (or pick any country) using the Lincoln Memorial as a backdrop. The uproar in this country would be immense, so why not show the same level of respect to our allies. Once elected he could pull it off, but to even consider it now just shows how inexperienced the junior Senator from Illinois is.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2214 times:



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 5):
I think the Gendarmenmarkt would be an appropriate place.

I think, too, it is one of the most beautiful places in Berlin and it would be new as it has not been used before by any foreign politician (while Brandenburg Gate already was used as a background by Reagan and the West-Berlin City Hall by Kennedy ).



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

Who is going by the way ? I will try to be there and listen what he got to say, especially on US-German relations. I am not a huge Obama fan though, I was hoping for Hillary actually, but since I am very much interested in politics and the US in general I am very curious on Obama and what he stands for. So far I have no real opinion on him as he is too vague for my taste but maybe my opinion will change on thursday.

Regards

Columba



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

I say he should go do a speech at a local Bavarian beer hall and then quaff a few liters. That would deliver a knock out punch to McCain whose party base typically decides their voting preference by judging which candidate would make the better BBQ guest.

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2113 times:



Quoting Wingman (Reply 9):
I say he should go do a speech at a local Bavarian beer hall and then quaff a few liters.

He comes to Berlin not Bavaria  Smile
To compare Berlin with Bavaria would be like to compare New York City with Texas Big grin



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7940 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2109 times:



Quoting Wingman (Reply 9):
I say he should go do a speech at a local Bavarian beer hall

In Berlin?
There are some nice beer gardens, though.

According to Spiegel, they have settled on a site for his Berlin speech: The Vicory Column. That's funny, because said column was build to commemorate the successful completion of the Victory Column Prussia's military victory over Denmark, France and Austria, who are now friends and allies - maybe the more kinky sort of friends, but still ...  Wink

Granted, the Vicory Column nowadays stands mostly for fun and ... erm ... some kind of distinct ambiguity ... thanks to the Love Parade, but I wonder if this really is an appropriate symbol for a political speech.
Not to mention that police will have to cordon off one of the most traffic-congested areas in Berlin. But there you go ...

I still think Gendarmen Market would be the better place, but perhaps Mr. Obama's campaign watch dogs were thinking that the name was sounding too French.  Silly



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineAirStairs From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2095 times:



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 6):
I personally disliked the idea from the get-go, as the Brandenburg Tor is a symbol too significant and deeply rooted in Germany's history to be used as a political rally.

Yah this is a little presumptuous for my taste, but it seems like he gets his rocks off pretending to be a Kennedy so to push the stakes higher doesn't completely surprise me.


AirStairs


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7940 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2091 times:



Quoting AirStairs (Reply 12):
pretending to be a Kennedy so to push the stakes higher doesn't completely surprise me.

Kennedy gave his famous speech from the balcony of Schoeneberg townhall, then West-Berlin's townhall. Ronald Reagan gave his speech from in front of the wall and the Brandenburg Gate just behind it.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13943 posts, RR: 63
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2087 times:



Quoting AirStairs (Reply 12):
Quoting Charles79 (Reply 6):
I personally disliked the idea from the get-go, as the Brandenburg Tor is a symbol too significant and deeply rooted in Germany's history to be used as a political rally.

Yah this is a little presumptuous for my taste, but it seems like he gets his rocks off pretending to be a Kennedy so to push the stakes higher doesn't completely surprise me.


AirStairs

With the difference that both Kennedy and Reagan were already elected US presidents by the time they held their speeches. Obama, at the moment, is just a candidate. Once Obama is elected, he will be very welcome (provided he doesn't cause Berlin's traffic to come to a total standstill by excessive security measures (when Reagan was visiting West Berlin in the 1980s, a whole district, Kreuzberg, was cordoned off for the time of the visit, because the West Berlin politicians feared demonstrations by the mostly leftwing inhabitants, so they got a riot instead, because the people were angry about being locked in).

Jan


User currently offlineAirStairs From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2080 times:



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 13):
Kennedy gave his famous speech from the balcony of Schoeneberg townhall, then West-Berlin's townhall. Ronald Reagan gave his speech from in front of the wall and the Brandenburg Gate just behind it.

I know, and actually checked before I wrote just to make sure.  box 

To me, it seems like Mr Obama doesn't have a great deal of class or humility pulling something like that. I only meant to convey that I expect him to cast himself in the same like as JFK; despite the locations being different, they are both more significant than Mr Obama probably warrants.

But thank you for keeping me on my toes in any case.  bigthumbsup 



AirStairs


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Planning A Trip To AMS And Berlin posted Fri Nov 14 2003 21:00:00 by LHMark
Boat Trip To Honeymoon Lake: Lots Of Photos posted Sat Jul 12 2008 13:25:35 by MCOflyer
IMF To Audit The US Banking System... posted Wed Jul 2 2008 16:41:45 by QANTAS077
Help A Noob Plan His First Trip To Europe posted Wed Feb 27 2008 18:19:10 by Fly2HMO
Ski Trip To Northstar (Non Avia) Pics posted Wed Feb 20 2008 18:09:07 by Mike89406
My Trip To The Top Of Everest: posted Tue Feb 19 2008 16:17:43 by Speedbird747BA
Ski Trip To Squaw Valley... posted Mon Feb 4 2008 19:55:17 by Mike89406
Help With Upcoming Trip To KL posted Mon Jan 28 2008 07:27:45 by SOBHI51
Any Suggestions For A Trip To Egypt/Nile Cruise? posted Sun Jan 6 2008 15:38:04 by Pdxtriple7
Christmas Day Trip To Ormond Beach posted Tue Dec 25 2007 20:57:33 by MCOflyer