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Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms  
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26489 posts, RR: 58
Posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

We are all looking forward to Obamas trip to Europe and it will probably be the first visit by a high profile US politican that will not be met with protests.
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The continent's leaders and ordinary citizens are enthusiastic about Obama, but they recognize that their embrace could backfire in the U.S.
By Geraldine Baum, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 16, 2008
PARIS -- From prime ministers to college students, Europeans want to cloak Barack Obama in a warm embrace when he arrives on the continent next week. But they're also aware that anything that looks or smells like elitist Old Europe could hurt the Democratic contender with voters back home.

Obama has yet to finalize his itinerary for Europe. However, he is already set to skip Brussels, the capital of the modern united continent, for the traditional symbols of economic and military power: London, Paris and Berlin.

All those European capitals' leaders have expressed a willingness to adapt their schedules to see the American politician whose sky-high approval ratings in their countries are at least as good as their own. Polls reveal that if they could vote in the United States, between 53% and 72% of the British, French and German public would pull the lever for Obama.

"If Britons elected American presidents, Barack Obama would have no worries," began an editorial in the left-wing British newspaper, the Guardian.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...ovisit16-2008jul16,0,2643448.story


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76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 7916 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1968 times:



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
it will probably be the first visit by a high profile US politican that will not be met with protests.

Ronald Reagan, who wasn't quite popular in Germany, did not hear much protest (if any) when he was giving his speech at the Brandenburg Gate.

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
The continent's leaders and ordinary citizens are enthusiastic about Obama,

They are not "enthusiastic" but are looking forward to an improved relationship, no matter who is going to become the next U.S. President.

While it is true that Obama's point of view is more in line with that of the the European mainstream, any U.S. President will put American interests first (surprise), and everyone knows that he will not be kind of a Messiah.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1967 times:



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 1):
While it is true that Obama's point of view is more in line with that of the the European mainstream, any U.S. President will put American interests first (surprise), and everyone knows that he will not be kind of a Messiah.


Tell that to the American voters who think Obama will cure all that ails American with "Change" All it amounts to is warm sounding but empty platitudes..Obama like any politician will say anything to get elected. He pandered to the far left to beat Hillary, now he's going centrist to get the independents.

Hillary Clinton was the stronger candidate but lacked the rockstar appeal of Obama who thinks of himself as Robert Kennedy in 1968...Same kind of crowds, same appeal, difference was RFK had substance and had sound morals.

I am guessing either McCain or Obama will be an improvement over President Bush, but I think neither candidate has much substance, much like the 2000 and 2004 election.

I see America much like I see Pan Am. Once great organizations led into the ground by weak and incompetent leadership..

-Sam


User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1956 times:



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Polls reveal that if they could vote in the United States, between 53% and 72% of the British, French and German public would pull the lever for Obama.

That's kind of a big spread, and kind of an ambiguous stat.

Anyway, what a ridiculous article.

First of all, the people who would be put off by something smelling of "Old Europe" (to quote the article) probably wouldn't be voting for him anyway. Moreover, he is what he is, and he's the democratic nominee, so it's not like this visit is going to change anything.

I really doubt Europeans would show such obsequiousness to anyone.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 7916 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 3):
That's kind of a big spread, and kind of an ambiguous stat.

You can say that again.

I'm among those 53% (or 72%) of Europeans who would vote for Obama. In the eyes of some journalists this makes me an Obama enthusiast. But I would possibly vote for Mrs. Merkel rather than for Senator Obama any day of the week. Does that make me a Merkel uber-enthusiast? I ask, because I have never voted for her, nor do I intend to do so.

Enthusiasm is something different. Still I frequently come across reports by some American journalists or professors who manage to publish an article in a German weekly or daily newspaper lecturing that Europeans "must." "finally." "understand." that even Mr. Obama will be in the same line as previous U.S. Presidents were.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 2):
the rockstar appeal of Obama who thinks of himself as Robert Kennedy in 1968.

Honestly, I don't think Europeans are immune against what you have called rockstar appeal. At the same time it's obvious that - if he gets elected - some day his close season will be over. He will have his strong days and his weak days, his approval rating will inavitably drop. And life will go on.
America will not go the way of Pan Am, no matter what candidate you pick. The USA is strong and people know how to adjust to new situations.

[Edited 2008-07-17 16:35:11]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26489 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1916 times:



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 4):
America will not go the way of Pan Am, no matter what candidate you pick. The USA is strong and people know how to adjust to new situations.

Only time will tell. There is alot of work to be done to pick themselves up.



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User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Please, await him with open arms, grab him firmly, and keep him. America will be better without a racist, "change"-ing person such as Obama.

User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1895 times:



Quoting Jpax (Reply 6):
America will be better without a racist, "change"-ing person such as Obama.

This statement is uncalled for. And how do you know that he is a racist? By any chance are you one of the low informational voters that both sides are talking about?


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1893 times:



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 2):
I see America much like I see Pan Am. Once great organizations led into the ground by weak and incompetent leadership..

You have a good point here. Leadership and new ideas have come from the state legislatures in recent years and not Washington.


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

The really sad part is that for the entire trip all three boradcast networks will have their anchors traipsing behind him. I doubt any sort of flub or mis-step will get even the briefest airing unlike any gaff by the current President. On top of that it will be a 15-20 minute political infomercial every night starting at 6:30 eastern 5:30 central. I think the GOP and Senator McCain have a legitimate gripe here. He certainly didn't get the same coverage when he made his trip to Europe and the middle east in March.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...mccain?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

Seems to me the equal time rule ought to apply here.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1859 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 9):
He certainly didn't get the same coverage when he made his trip to Europe and the middle east in March.

RJ what was happening in March? A hotly contested primary according to the network news tonight the press wasn't invited and besides as one person wrote, in another tread, McCain had already been to the middle east several times and so it really wasn't important news.


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1854 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 10):
RJ what was happening in March?

None of that changes the equal time rule. It is too late to go with Sen. McCain to europe and the middle east but if they are going to traipse after Sen. Obama and give him 15-20 minutes of air time every night they should have to give Sen. McCain equal time as the FCC dictates.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18681 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1851 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 9):
The really sad part is that for the entire trip all three boradcast networks will have their anchors traipsing behind him. I doubt any sort of flub or mis-step will get even the briefest airing unlike any gaff by the current President. On top of that it will be a 15-20 minute political infomercial every night starting at 6:30 eastern 5:30 central. I think the GOP and Senator McCain have a legitimate gripe here. He certainly didn't get the same coverage when he made his trip to Europe and the middle east in March.

Maybe because McCain isn't very interesting subject matter? News companies want ratings and viewers.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

Here is your so called Equal Time Rules; as you can read, it does not apply..to many loopholes.
http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/E/htmlE/equaltimeru/equaltimeru.htm
By your way of thinking then the networks must give all the minor candidates equal time also, but anyways here's the paragraph that explains:

Congress reacted quickly by creating four exemptions to the equal opportunity law. Stations who gave time to candidates on regularly scheduled newscasts, news interviews shows, documentaries (assuming the candidate wasn't the primary focus of the documentary), or on-the-spot news events would not have to offer equal time to other candidates for that office. In creating these exemptions, Congress stressed that the public interest would be served by allowing stations the freedom to cover the activities of candidates without worrying that any story about a candidate, no matter how tangentially related to his or her candidacy, would require equal time.

[Edited 2008-07-17 17:56:20]

User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1837 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
. And how do you know that he is a racist?

Everything about his present and past clearly points to him being a black-supremacist.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
By any chance are you one of the low informational voters that both sides are talking about?

Not in the least.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1824 times:



Quoting Jpax (Reply 14):
Everything about his present and past clearly points to him being a black-supremacist.

What? Care to give some examples?


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

Obama is seen by many in Europe correctly as someone far different than GWB. Obama is seen as moderately intellectual while GWB is seen as having no intellectual curiosity. They see in Obama diplomacy instead of war, working with others rather than being arrogant respecting others opinions and so on. Most important, they see someone willing to get the USA out of Iraq. I do hope his tour is successful, that he learns more of the world, speaks to different voices and gets big adoring crowds.

User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1814 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 15):
What? Care to give some examples?

Just going for the obvious ones-- His church, his mentor throughout life, "typical white person," "white folks."

For many, many more examples, Google it. Don't act like you've never heard it before. God forbid, a white person said "typical black person" while running for President-- his or her life would be over.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1814 times:



Quoting Jpax (Reply 14):
Everything about his present and past clearly points to him being a black-supremacist.

Yep. And the black(!) helicopters are already on their way to pick you up...!  hypnotized 


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1808 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):
Here is your so called Equal Time Rules; as you can read, it does not apply..to many loopholes.

When I get home, if I am not to tired, I will dig up the actual FCC regulations, not the museum version. I spent 18 years in tv and radio so I have a little more than passing knowledge of what constitutes an "equal" time scenario. Suffice to say regular news does not require equal time. Making a special presentation or gearing your newscast around the candidates activities as the majors are doing does. An example is the conventions themselves. If you measure the broadcast hours given each, they are very close. There is a reason for that. They (the major networks) unfortunately will not be held accountable but that does not mean they are not violating the rules as well as showing how biased they really are.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1799 times:



Quoting Jpax (Reply 17):
For many, many more examples, Google it.

Already have, there nothing that approach your comment. Let see someone that taught law at the University of Chicago for 12 years and has worked with some of the most conservative members (Lugar, Coburn, Brownback) of the Senate to pass/propose legislation, must be a radical.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
are you one of the low informational voters

Sorry Jpax it appears this description fits.


User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1791 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 20):
Quoting Jpax (Reply 17):
For many, many more examples, Google it.

Already have, there nothing that approach your comment. Let see someone that taught law at the University of Chicago for 12 years and has worked with some of the most conservative members (Lugar, Coburn, Brownback) of the Senate to pass/propose legislation, must be a radical.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
are you one of the low informational voters

Sorry Jpax it appears this description fits.

How people behave in their workplace and what they do at home are two different
things entirely. Just look at Hollywood celebrities. There's a public persona and then there is a private one..How many politicians say one thing and act in a completely different way in their private lives? This goes for both Republicans and Democrats...

I'm a firm believer in the saying "The company you keep says a lot about you"


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1781 times:



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
There's a public persona and then there is a private one..

While true, apparently on the news tonight it came to light that McCain had told a joke in one of his Senate races, about women enjoying rape. Ouch!


User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1777 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 20):
Sorry Jpax it appears this description fits.

It's quite alright for you to label me that, e-insults don't hurt me. Anyway, it's better than being an Obama follower.  Wink


User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 40
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1774 times:

Ever notice that the European public tends to welcome any US president with a weak foreign policy with open arms? They loved Jimmy Carter who stood-by while Iran was taken over by the mullahs. They loved Bill Clinton when he didn't respond to several terrorist attacks on American interests. Furthermore, they loved him when their politicians begged that he send troops to the Balkan Civil Wars and he obliged.

On the other hand, they despised Reagan, who landed the final crushing blows to USSR. Of course, they're going to hate Bush being that he actually dealt with terrorism by taking down the Taliban. In an interesting twist, the Europeans were quite happy to have Clinton and the US deal with a genocidal dictator in Milosevic, but were not quite as happy when a genocidal dictator in Hussein was taken out under Boosh.

All in all, I'm happy that Europeans don't vote in our elections.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
25 JM017 : Nice. But in the end, McCain will win the election. Why? With people making comments like this: ...or stating with conviction that he is Muslim (and
26 PSA727 : It's funny how this writer is worried that Obama's opponents might use the "enthusiastic embrace" of him in Europe to their advantage by labeling him
27 OA260 : You are probably right. Its a shame that if true America will be voting for more terrorist attacks on its own soil and more of its children will be c
28 PSA727 : You mean to say that no terrorist attacks will occur in the U.S. if Obama is elected president? I did not know that the islamic fundamentalists were
29 OA260 : Maybe he will be a bit of a better ''diplomat'' because like it or not Bush has created alot more hate for your country from people who were once sta
30 L410Turbolet : All? I certainly couldn't care less and I pity those on the other side of the Atlantic who belive that Obama's photo ops in "5 countries in 5 days" w
31 NoUFO : No. And I have always lived in Europe. Not to mention that I was at a legal voting age and could read newspapers - both, in English and German - when
32 Post contains links Scbriml : So terrorism has been dealt with and the Taliban is gone? I must have missed the memo. That wouldn't quite align with the reality of the situation in
33 OA260 : Yes if I want the circus I will buy a ticket for one .....
34 N328KF : Please, Europe, you can have him! I do not think Obama is racist. However, I think many of the people supporting him are. By supporting, I am referri
35 Falcon84 : You don't have to guess on that one. That is a fact. What a lame line of BS that is. I don't see anything racist about him. The fact that most whites
36 Mt99 : What "rule"? Looking at McSame is like looking at paint dry. There is a reason Hanna Montana is famous. As much ad id like her to shut up - its what
37 JM017 : And that's how it should be. Agree or disagree with the politics, but too many people are not looking beyond the colour of his skin. One of the reaso
38 N328KF : He's a demagogue, pure and simple. There were other demagogues in history...Hitler was one of them. Obama is not Hitler, but they both appeal to some
39 Post contains links 767Lover : WHAT??? Most whites won't vote for him? That's quite a feat, being able to pick up the Democratic nomination without the support of the largest demog
40 Post contains links OA260 : Europe prepares for Obamania Large crowds are expected at his European events as people want to get their first glance at the man who could become the
41 Mt99 : It might help him too. The more and more of US population now understands that how the world view the US is of importance and the the US cannot exist
42 Post contains links Falcon84 : http://news.aol.com/story/_a/obama-n...-divide-poll/n20080716010009990003
43 VCEapt : That's actually not true. Not all leaders of Europe back him. Italy has just re-elect hands down the Conservative Silvio Berlusconi that declared alre
44 767Lover : The article you linked to doesn't prove anything. Where does it say that MOST WHITES WON'T vote for him? The article basically talks about how Americ
45 RJdxer : Nothing new there. It doesn't but why let a little fact like that stop you from linking? DING DING, Bob, tell 767lover what he's won!!!
46 JCS17 : " target=_blank>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/wo...login Has the security situation deteriorated in Afghanistan? Yes, however, I would place more
47 Falcon84 : Of course yuu would. God knows you're incapable of putting any blame on this president or any Republican entity for that matter. The blame goes squar
48 Daedaeg : Whether one agrees with the war or not, I imagine Americans don't like the condescending attitude from our European friends. I'm not so sure how this
49 JCS17 : Why let facts get in the way of your obsessive Bush/Iraq-bashing? Troop levels were never sacrificed in Afghanistan for higher troop levels in Iraq.
50 NoUFO : Are we still talking about Europe? It's true that the U.S. is pulling most of the military weight, but there is a reason for that, and it's not all a
51 Mt99 : Im no expert, but could it be that yes, no troops where taken from Afghanistan, but the ones added in Iraq could have been deployed to Afghanistan in
52 Falcon84 : Obesessive, eh? Simply by pointing out he's a bad president, in my view, and the Iraq war was a monumental blunder, in my view, that's obsession. Uh,
53 RJdxer : If you would care to explain how extra boots on the ground would solve a situation in which the Taliban can retire across a border we cannot cross I'
54 Falcon84 : Gee, maybe extra boots could have CONTROLLED that border better? Maybe the Taliban wouldn't still be entrenched in certain areas? Again, the fact you
55 Max550 : I thought we were told the problem in Iraq was weapons and terrorists coming in from Iran, a border which we cannot cross. Then we were told that put
56 RJdxer : The border is just over 1600 miles long, much of it very rough terrain. If one company stakes out one mile, which is still a lot for 160 men, that's
57 N174UA : Yep. Europe can have him. He's better as the President of the EU instead of the US. You know what...that's the fault of the voting public. The dumber
58 Falcon84 : Yes it is, you are correct. But the President never did authorize enough troops to begin with, to do the job. He honestly thought he'd be in and out
59 RJdxer : First off, how about you get the correct country. Your previous post was about the border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan. That is where the Tal
60 Falcon84 : Correction duly noted. Thanks for picking that one out. My bad. I've looked at that map. And if you're going to invade and occupy a nation, you don't
61 RJdxer : And according to you, and I can dig up the quotes if you like, "the Iraq army was but a shell of its former self, no threat to anybody really". That
62 Mir : Be careful what you wish for. Not all coverage is good coverage. -Mir
63 Falcon84 : It wasn't much of a threat in '91, as it turns out, either, was it? This isn't about quelling a third-rate army, RJ. It's about OCCUPYING A NATION. A
64 RJdxer : Correct. The debates are going to be fun to watch. Neither candidate speaks well on the fly. And to do what you are suggesting would have meant a dra
65 Falcon84 : Then you do a draft, mate. If you can't do the mission with what you have, and do it the right way, you have to find a way to do it the right way, no
66 Platypus : This is a feeble liberal myth, more like a flat out lie to ignore the fact the US and it's allies are succeeding in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Being
67 Falcon84 : Jesus Christ, this has nothng to do with liberalism or conservatism! What IS IT with people like you who break EVERYTHING down in "liberal" and "cons
68 Platypus : You're on medication! This coming from the MOST politically biased individual on A-net has me . All you are doing is running away here! Nonsense Rega
69 VCEapt : President Carter was a mor**, case closed.
70 Max550 : I thought the point of the surge was basically an admission that we hadn't sent enough troops, and we would send more to quell the violence that had
71 Max550 : I'll answer the question: No, there have been no serious terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11. Do we give Bush all the credit? Perhaps, if you'll a
72 Klaus : If you don't have a clue about german history, please don't use it to smear politicians you don't happen to like. Hitler was (relatively) popular exa
73 RJdxer : While I am in favor of a draft, it is for different reasons than that. A draft was not going to happen, and won't happen any time soon given the Me M
74 Falcon84 : On that, we agree 100%. After all, look at all those ChickenHawk "Young Republicans", who are so gung-ho for the war, but have intention for fighting
75 Mir : Not just the number of troops, but the hideous stupidity when it came to the post-war leadership. The incompetence in that area set us back at least
76 AirStairs : I won't speak to Mr Bush's intellectual curiosity, but the idea that Mr Obama is some sort of prescient, cool-headed, worldly intellectual because he
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