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Canadian Crime Rate Drops Again  
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1399 times:

Recent stats put forth indicate the overall crime rate in Canada has dropped for the 3rd straight year, and continues a trend starting back in the 70s:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/17/f-crime-2008.html

The number that immediately leaps out is 594 murders, down slightly from 2006 (606). The per capita rate has dropped 50%, roundabouts, since the death penalty was abolished in 1974. For contrast, check California, with only slightly more people than Canada, had 2,485 murders in 2006:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm

I think a couple of possible reasons are:

-- handgun ownership in Canada is a fraction of what it is in the USA, and
-- transient population in Canada is a lot lower than the USA.

It's also been argued that Canada's crime rate is influenced by the substantial East Asian population we have, and the notion that they are much more law-abiding than are Caucasians. Not sure about that but I am sure there will be several opinions on that thought.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAF340 From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 2786 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Toronto is the second safest city in Canada!

Ha ha ha ha ha...


I knew we weren't dangerous, people just hate us!


We'd better stay away for Yellowknife, they have more crime than Jane and Finch!







Liam spin 


User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

I was listening to the radio yesterday to a discussion about the crime rate report and one comment struck me as odd. The rate of non reported crimes is consistent to that of years gone by. Umm... how do they know that?


I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1332 times:



Quoting YooYoo (Reply 2):
I was listening to the radio yesterday to a discussion about the crime rate report and one comment struck me as odd. The rate of non reported crimes is consistent to that of years gone by. Umm... how do they know that?

That does seem rather illogical, doesn't it ? How can one keep stats on something unreported ? That would be, to quote Donald Rumsfeld, "an unknown unknown".



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineAgill From Sweden, joined Feb 2004, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1329 times:



Quoting AF340 (Reply 1):
Toronto is the second safest city in Canada!

Good thing since I'm going there in a month  Smile


User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 1304 times:



Quoting AF340 (Reply 1):
Toronto is the second safest city in Canada!



Quoting Agill (Reply 4):
Good thing since I'm going there in a month

...but 147 th safest for people from Sweden!  Wink



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1288 times:



Quoting AF340 (Reply 1):
Ha ha ha ha ha...


I knew we weren't dangerous, people just hate us!


We'd better stay away for Yellowknife, they have more crime than Jane and Finch!

This being announced, on the same day that 3 people were shot in Toronto, 1 of which was killed.

Somehow, I find these stats to be a sham somehow.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1242 times:



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 6):
This being announced, on the same day that 3 people were shot in Toronto, 1 of which was killed.

Somehow, I find these stats to be a sham somehow.

1011yyz

Can you offer some factual basis for this assertion, or is it merely personal bias against anything issued by the government ?

One thing I find interesting is that a) the national association of police chiefs themselves state that crime has slowly been dropping for quite some time over-all (will try to get a source for that), and b) after the abolition of capital punishment, same outfit called for its' return, now they don't, as it is _clearly_ not a deterrent.

Should also note regarding reasons for decline in crime is that there are fewer young single men in Canadian society. As a group we are now significantly older than we were in the 70s. Young,single men are the a contributor to crime in Western society: risk-takers more so than most, lots of adrenaline flowing through them.

In the US, there's been lots of 3rd world immigration with a high birth rate that has tended to mask the ageing issue. As well, dependIng on where they come from, they have transplanted some of their own gangs and so forth, such as the notorious MS-13.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently onlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1226 times:



Quoting AF340 (Reply 1):
Toronto is the second safest city in Canada!

Its has a low crime rate yes but it has to have one of the highest violent crime rates in Canada.

Quoting YooYoo (Reply 2):
I was listening to the radio yesterday to a discussion about the crime rate report and one comment struck me as odd. The rate of non reported crimes is consistent to that of years gone by. Umm... how do they know that?

Also the people who commit crimes in Toronto do not report them so we are no where near as safe as this article says.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1213 times:

Well, with Karla Homolka found fit to be running free it's hard to imaging what might actually be against the law in Canada. No criminal statutes = no crime.

etic: Sorry, guess that was a cheap shot.

I think you overestimate the role played by the number of handguns. In the first place it is established but the fact has been supressed that more than half of US gun deaths are suicides and while that is technically a crime, it is probably not a crime YOU AND I need to worry about.

On the other hand a couple of the county sheriff officers told me, not long ago that they simply could not remember working a single crime that did not have drugs as a central element.

But where is the big move to reduce drugs?
Why is it all about the tool - the handgun - instead of the motivating force?

[Edited 2008-07-19 11:21:55]


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently onlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1202 times:



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
Well, with Karla Homolka found fit to be running free it's hard to imaging what might actually be against the law in Canada. No criminal statutes = no crime.

etic: Sorry, guess that was a cheap shot.

They authorities made a deal with her to get Bernardo (something they didn't have to do in the end) and when you make a deal you have to honour it, and the big scumbag is in jail for life.

I bet that if Amber Frey was involved or an accomplice in Laci Peterson's murder you would bet that the authorities in Modesto would have done the exact same thing with her to get Scott the needle.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
I think you overestimate the role played by the number of handguns. In the first place it is established but the fact has been supressed that more than half of US gun deaths are suicides and while that is technically a crime, it is probably not a crime YOU AND I need to worry about.

Suicides are not a crime attempted suicides are.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
But where is the big move to reduce drugs?
Why is it all about the tool - the handgun - instead of the motivating force?

We would like to at the least decriminalize pot use but the US will get really pissed if we did that not to mention legalize it. Also I don't think a lot of our gun deaths are really due to a huge drug trade as it may be in major US cities because the penalties are not a severe.

Most cops here will give you fine for weed possession and maybe a misdemeanor. the only thing that will likely get you any big time jail time is dealing hard drugs and running a grow op.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1201 times:

Might it just be Connies that there is a bit of unreasonable jealousy leaking over the border.  duck 

I think it is remarkable that Canadian crime rates are so low bearing in mind how high they are so close to you.  duck   duck  Must be a better ordered society I suppose.


User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4128 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1187 times:



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 7):
they have transplanted some of their own gangs and so forth, such as the notorious MS-13.

Interesting thing about that though is that it actually was started in the US, in Los Angeles. At that time the feds thought that by deporting the members would solve the problem. It made it worse because they spread it in their home countries, prisons, and more. So back up and across the border they came stronger than ever.

Canada should be proud of their decreasing crime rates. Yes, it would be nice if the US were lower too, but like someone said, our demographic make up is different; and the huge drug trade is a big big big factor. Crime is definitely lower now in the US than in the 80s, during the crack epidemic.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1175 times:



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 10):
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
Well, with Karla Homolka found fit to be running free it's hard to imaging what might actually be against the law in Canada. No criminal statutes = no crime.

etic: Sorry, guess that was a cheap shot.

They authorities made a deal with her to get Bernardo (something they didn't have to do in the end) and when you make a deal you have to honour it, and the big scumbag is in jail for life.


Agreed that Karla is one sick puppy, but a deal -- even with the devil -- is a deal. If you renege, you'll never be able to make another one to get "a bigger fish".

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 10):
We would like to at the least decriminalize pot use but the US will get really pissed if we did that not to mention legalize it. Also I don't think a lot of our gun deaths are really due to a huge drug trade as it may be in major US cities because the penalties are not a severe.

 checkmark  Indeed, I believe if we legalized weed and maybe hash, the US would subject everyone entering from Canada to a body cavity search. The economic damage would be huge, so it's not going to, in law, happen. But as you indicate, the consequences for simple possession are pretty minor. In Vancouver the police frequently just look the other way.



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 12):
Interesting thing about that though is that it actually was started in the US, in Los Angeles. At that time the feds thought that by deporting the members would solve the problem. It made it worse because they spread it in their home countries, prisons, and more. So back up and across the border they came stronger than ever.

Canada should be proud of their decreasing crime rates. Yes, it would be nice if the US were lower too, but like someone said, our demographic make up is different; and the huge drug trade is a big big big factor. Crime is definitely lower now in the US than in the 80s, during the crack epidemic.

Was aware that MS-13 started in the LA area, but started by transplanted Salvadoreans (and some Hondurans and Guatemalans, I believe). But the main recruiting areas are in the barrios 'back home'. Actually, MS-13 is getting some traction here now, in Toronto and Vancouver, and that is not a good sign. Our local and national police forces have not really had to deal with very well organized gangs on a frequent basis, aside from the Angels. MS-13 may indicate some new type of force or policy will have to be created.

Any truth to the US Army investigating if they are being infiltrated by MS-13 so they can get training with or acquire more advanced weaponry ? These guys are very very dangerous.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1166 times:



Quoting AF340 (Reply 1):
We'd better stay away for Yellowknife, they have more crime than Jane and Finch!

Believe it or not, I was just in Finch about a month ago... It seemed pretty safe...  Cool

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 10):
I bet that if Amber Frey was involved or an accomplice in Laci Peterson's murder you would bet that the authorities in Modesto would have done the exact same thing with her to get Scott the needle.

In Florida, we'd have offered life without parole instead of death in exchange for her testimony... That's about as much as we deal on murder one...

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 13):
Indeed, I believe if we legalized weed and maybe hash, the US would subject everyone entering from Canada to a body cavity search.

Oh come on... If anything, more dogs at the border, but even that's doubtful. If you legalized crack or meth or heroin, that would probably cause problems.

Quoting YooYoo (Reply 2):
I was listening to the radio yesterday to a discussion about the crime rate report and one comment struck me as odd. The rate of non reported crimes is consistent to that of years gone by. Umm... how do they know that?


Surveys... For example, it's well known that rape is the most under-reported crime. Another one that goes practically unreported is husband beating. It goes on all the time, but men are embarrassed to call the cops and say their wife beat them up...

Crime stats are easily manipulated. That's not to say they're worthless. It's just that they don't show the whole picture. For example, the rate is based on the permanent population, so tourist areas such as Las Vegas and Orlando always have a misleading high rate because there is always a large temporary population of visitors. Sure there's crime in those cities, but it's not as bad as the numbers would have you believe...

That being said, I visit Canada fairly often and I usually feel safe in the city. Of course we visit Ottawa, and Ottawa did rank safest on that survey.



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineAF340 From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 2786 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1158 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 14):
and Ottawa did rank safest on that survey.

Actually 7th safest... all those politicians getting into shady activities  Wink




Liam spin 


User currently onlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1153 times:



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 14):
In Florida, we'd have offered life without parole instead of death in exchange for her testimony... That's about as much as we deal on murder one...

That would make sense here but we don't have capital punishment so a 12 year sentence was the best we could do.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1147 times:



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 10):
We would like to at the least decriminalize pot use but the US will get really pissed if we did that not to mention legalize it.

Frankly I have an extremely low opinion of anyone over 18 years of age who still smokes pot. I mean I think more highly of termites. But - I agree it should be decriminalized as that seems only to create an industry. An "industry" as you might know is a private sector activity and the much more profitable government bureaucracy created to manage it.

I would go so far as to legalize it provided we could take adequate (and by that, I mean SAVAGE) steps when a person drives a car, shows up for work, serves as the adult responsible for a child, operates machinery or does ANY other thing that would make his impaired state a hazard to others. The only way one should be permited to indulge is when there is no one depending on them in any way. Punishments should run to years in prison, confiscation of personal property, lifetime surtaxes and so forth. Without that it would be no deal.

Then we could use the 95% of our law enforcement resources that are on doobie patrol and turn them to more serious crimes.

By the way, I really love what Colombia did, unconstitutional as it might have been, in nailing Pablo Escobar.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
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