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The USA: A Sinking Ship?  
User currently offlineWardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4630 times:

Hi everyone,

It seems no good news in regards to the US economy and it will get worse says analysts.

In my opinion, and please, correct me if Im wrong, that Europe will be the super-power (along with Asia) of the world. By this saying, is that since the EURO is getting stronger in currency, it means that European countries will have the best economy power than the US.

For example, in Hungary, the economy is the best and its booming like crazy because the Forint currency, is the stongest in history....Hence....even Hungary and all of Eastern Europe is doing far well better than the USA.

So I think there will be no fix to the sinking economy in the US....and thats because of outsourcing....

Thats why the US has a few corporations thats on their soil but 80% of those companies are outsourced...

154 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEELonghorn From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

What is wrong with outsourcing?

User currently offlinePlaneWasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4553 times:

US economy is maybe going down, but why should that mean that it is impossible to recover?
Change some habits and strategies and it will become better. The population is well educated and americans arn't more stupid that anyone else.
But don't sit on your hands doing nothing thinking the problems will be solved by themselves.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

I really don't consider the U.S to be a sinking ship.

Many things are cyclical in this world, and this is no different.

Things are tough right now in many aspects but that does not mean things will stay that way for the long term.


User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3848 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4516 times:



Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
that Europe will be the super-power (along with Asia) of the world.

Europe has a looooong way to go to achieve any kind of coherent and unified governing body that will allow it to have the diplomatic and economic influence on the world the US has.
Progress has been tremendous, but it's still no more than a bunch of very different countries that have facilitated exchange of goods and people amongst themselves, helped by a common currency.

Asia is also quite the motley crew of states which are far from speaking from a single voice, and are all still very much influenced, economically, by other countries, although their economies are booming.

A strong economy and currency is not the only criteria considered in the definition of a 'super-power'. The US is here to stay, and hopefully the next administration can do its bit to curve the failing finances.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4506 times:



Quoting EELonghorn (Reply 1):
What is wrong with outsourcing?

If it ever happens to you, pal, then come back and answer that question.

The fact you even ask that question makes me want to throw up. I guess, to you, there's nothing wrong wth taking good paying American jobs, with good benefits, and giving them to another nation, forcing your own countrymen to then look for jobs that don't pay nearly as wel,and with less benefits.

If you call that progress, then I pity you. That kind of attitude, imho, is as anti-American as one can get.


User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4318 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Not a sinking ship, but one that has been 'on tour' without repairs for way too long.

The United States is a complete fiscal mess, with very poor fiscal and monetary decision at the moment, perhaps the poorest in 90 years. For example, two weeks ago it was informed that the US military would reactivate a fleet of warships to patrol the South Atlantic...

Usually, that would have prompted a massive outcry and criticism by South American nations, but this time the reaction was extremely muted, even from Venezuela (current US nemesis in SA), and Argentina, which has always been lukewarm to the United States. Even Brazil with it's aspirations of regional superpower didn't make much of it. Why?

Because deep inside the halls of power in those countries, they KNOW the US is in no shape to be parading ships that consume millions of barrels of oil, and cost billions of dollars, indefinately when there is no reason to do so in the South Atlantic Ocean... specially with major presidential elections coming up. So why is Bush doing this now? He gave no explanations. Then again, South American countries didn't really demand much of one as they usually would have.

The thinking is: if the US wants to spend even more oil and treasure on a pointless ''I'm still a superpower'' shoutout, and blow even more holes in it's budget and economy, go right ahead. "We" already know you are still a military superpower.

What we do know is that such pointless spending is an example of things that costing the United States TERRIBLY at home in crumbling infraestructure, and in the future of US children.

What the US is doing right now is suicide: they are buying incredibly expensive oil from the Middle East, expensive commodities from Asia and Latin America, imported fashion from Europe and electronics from Japan with a 50% devalued US dollar.

This trade imbalance fills up the vaults of all these nations with billions in currency reserves... almost all of whom then TURN AROUND and purchase an increasing float of US debt that country needs to sustain it's bloated budget. So in essence, American consumers are to some extent financing out of their own pockets the increase in their foreign debt which is being bought by foreign savings.

Putting money (or credit card debt) towards increasing your own nation's debt is not exactly the smartest economic policy. Bottom line the US has a lot of problems, that are very fixable, but I think they lack political will as well as social will to make changes. They are not unique in this though, most nations have change forced upon them when things become unsustainable.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13202 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4483 times:

There is no doubt that the good ship USA has taken on a lot of water and may floundering a bit, but it is far from sinking. That 'sinking' can be avoided if it's citizens make good decisions from consumer choices to leadership.
All of us in the USA must face certain realities. We must all start to live simpler lives within our means. No more big, fuel guzzling vehicles. Much smaller houses. Reduce personal debt. Be less greedy as to wanting money and stuff. Save to buy something rather than use easy credit. Not try to 'keep up with the Jones'. We also need to make more healthy choices in our consumption of food, reducing our excesses there with it's waste and health care impact.
We must challenge our leaders to make tough decisions and live with them including as to oil/energy use, to accept higher taxes to pay for our debts, to put in sound regulations to reduce future risks. Improve our schools systems. Make college affordable without huge debt. We must have a total revamping our our health care systems so no one is unable to get care due to the costs and is affordable for all.
We must stop the exporting of jobs and industry and indeed return some of it.
We must also end our war in Iraq - we can't afford it, they don't want us (at least our military forces) there anyway and it just reinforces more expensive hate against the USA. We also must back down as to threats against Iran and take our fight against al-Quada in Afghanistan.

We went through a similar crises in the 1970's - and we survived. We can get through this and be a stronger country in a different and better way.


User currently offlineDuff44 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4444 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 7):
to accept higher taxes to pay for our debts

I agree with everything you said except that. If our government was 100% lean and still couldn't meet all of the obligations it needed to, then you would have a point. But when we do not actively close tax-haven loopholes and outright waste spending on earmarked projects, a tax increase is counterproductive.

But trusting Congress with money is like trusting a child molester to watch your kids... you won't see any improvement until it personally affects them, and since they're all rich it won't.



I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

The US has a lot of problems.

-Large fiscal deficit
-Large trade deficit
-Old infrastructure
-Many private households in deep debt
-One percent of the population in prison
-Large gap between rich and poor
-Large parts of the world are angry at the US and its Hippocratic foreign policy

to name a few. If I was nasty, I'd say they should rather elect an insolvency administrator than a president. The hole is deep, has been dug by wrong way of acting in a lot of years, it will take a long time to come out of it.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4382 times:



Quoting EELonghorn (Reply 1):
What is wrong with outsourcing?

Nothing. We should outsource our government today, this very hour. We could probably hire a Senate and House in Guatemala for about the salary of a single Senator. They could not possibly do a worse job and we could actually fire them (unlike the ones we have now) if they didn't do their job well.

As for outsourcing private sector concerns. It makes life better only for the real owners of corporations. Those of us who own "common stock" in those corporations might see a little gain, but we are mostly a buffer between the fat cats and any consequences from increasing unemployment.

The next bad thing about outsourcing is that the product SUCKS and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it other than buy a competing, equally sucky outsourced product. I've spent days and days shopping for an alternative to Chinese crap product and concluded that no such thing is available. In some cases I would cheerfully pay ten times the retail price to find such a thing. I have a machine shop building me a tripod right now because every store in town carries only Chinese crap. My tripod is going to cost more than $300 instead of the $15 or so for a Chinese POS but the latter will wobble.

That's what is wrong with outsourcing.

Original question:

Globalization. The dollar is probably being deliberately driven down right now by ecoterrorists having nothing to do with radical religion. Billionaires in other countries want to own some of our assets and are finding them a bargain.

One day we will do what a hundred other nations have done to us and to our citizens. We will just "nationalize" their investments right out from under them and the playing field will be more or less level again.

Some of you may consider me a rightie because you are so blinded by partisan politics or don't read my posts carefully but I've lost friends from the right by maintaining that capitalism is as evil as communism. It just works slightly better and I can't think of a better -ism. Business school brainwashees snicker and toss out buzzword-grenades but the most important thing a corporation can produce is jobs. The product is just an excuse. The jobs create the market, dummies! Henry Ford understood that and changed the world. He knew that people just like his employees were the market.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4338 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
-Large parts of the world are angry at the US and its Hippocratic foreign policy

The word is hypocritical.

The hippocratic oath is taken by medical doctors.


User currently offlinePlaneWasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4336 times:



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
As for outsourcing private sector concerns. It makes life better only for the real owners of corporations.

I don't agree. A country should do what it is good at compared to other countries. A company using outsourcing will have an advantage over a non-outsouring one, IF it is done right. I think the US companies would find it very hard to compete with European and Asian companies if they were not allowed to outsource. Then there would not be any American companies at all after a while...


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4320 times:



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
I have a machine shop building me a tripod right now because every store in town carries only Chinese crap.

Ask your local retailer to stock up on Cullmann tripods.

Amazon.com sells some of them, too.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4316 times:

We've been a sinking ship since 1776. Someone call me when it's time to board the life rafts.

User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4308 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14):
We've been a sinking ship since 1776. Someone call me when it's time to board the life rafts.

Thats a funny joke!  sarcastic 

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 13):

Or Gitzo. Im pretty sure those arent chinese made.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4279 times:



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 13):
Ask your local retailer to stock up on Cullmann tripods.

I can see at a glance that those, no matter where they are made, are too spindly to be stable with my long lens.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 15):
Or Gitzo. Im pretty sure those arent chinese made.

Unfortunately for them I can have one scratch-built cheaper. So much for the economy argument for outsourcing. I can have a one-off built from raw materials by a local business owner for less money than I can buy their manufactured product.

Outsourcing apparently only has merit where the customer base can be conditioned to accept total garbage as a product.

Quoting PlaneWasted (Reply 12):
think the US companies would find it very hard to compete with European and Asian companies if they were not allowed to outsource. Then there would not be any American companies at all after a while...

That is an illusion caused by the utterly contrived international markets. I sometimes wonder who is paying our Congressional salaries because they certainly don't serve us. In almost any commodity you can name the US pays more tariffs to other countries than they pay to us for what they ship. Same with user fees like port charges or airport landing fees. Australia, just for one example used to charge us about ten times what we charged them for the same event - a 747 operation. If all tariffs were, by international treaty 100% reciprocal you'd see a world you wouldn't even recognize and the only reason it is the way it is now is because the thousand or so wealthiest people are non-nationals. They can move their fortunes around in ways unavailable to you and me.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineAirStairs From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

The title of this thread seems a little dramatic to me.

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
In my opinion, and please, correct me if Im wrong, that Europe will be the super-power (along with Asia) of the world. By this saying, is that since the EURO is getting stronger in currency, it means that European countries will have the best economy power than the US.

With all due respect, you are wrong. It is some myth that congressmen would have you believe that China and India are swallowing up the world's money and energy and the US dollar will fall into oblivion. China and India's demand is quickly picking up pace, but the education of their workforces is still pitiful by western standards. The burgeoning Chinese and Indian middle classes that we continue to hear about threatening our oil security and weakening the dollar, make about the equivalent of $9 a day.

The Euro zone is strong but suffers from much of what the US does. The Euro is overvalued at estimates of around 30%, while analysts see the dollar undervalued. Yes, analysts are not and should not be unequivocally trusted. But per company research (proprietary so I won't name it), currencies will only correct about 12% per year, much slower than, say, an equity. Tighter monetary controls and market correction over time with put the dollar and euro in closer concert.

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 4):
Europe has a looooong way to go to achieve any kind of coherent and unified governing body that will allow it to have the diplomatic and economic influence on the world the US has.

 checkmark 

Aside from economic power, in which the aggregate Eurozone comes close to rivaling the US (but certainly does not operate as coherently), much more factors in to a status as world superpower, including (disappointingly or not) military clout that most of Europe does not have and seems unwilling to put forth (that is their prerogative).

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
If it ever happens to you, pal, then come back and answer that question.

The fact you even ask that question makes me want to throw up. I guess, to you, there's nothing wrong wth taking good paying American jobs, with good benefits, and giving them to another nation, forcing your own countrymen to then look for jobs that don't pay nearly as wel,and with less benefits.

If you call that progress, then I pity you. That kind of attitude, imho, is as anti-American as one can get.

It is painful progress, but a system that (if ironically) duly increases our standard of living with one hand as it takes our jobs with the other. I would not wish on anyone that their job be lost, whether it was handed to a foreign national or not. The reality is that a free market will seek the lowest costs of input possible in order to lower prices, garner market share, and maximize return. If you put a damper on this, you hinder economic growth across the board.

American industry is shrinking but still exists. It would be of more benefit it ourselves were we to insure that a huge variety of education disciplines were available to citizens of all means, as training a competitive workforce is the only real way out of the slump.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
-Large fiscal deficit
-Large trade deficit
-Old infrastructure
-Many private households in deep debt
-One percent of the population in prison
-Large gap between rich and poor
-Large parts of the world are angry at the US and its Hippocratic foreign policy

These are issues that most if not all countries are facing in some way or another, consumer debt being one that the US is particularly stung with. A weak dollar should help the trade deficit in the medium term. I can't agree on your point of infrastructure, though: it is not perfect but extremely reliable. There is not trash lining the streets like in Napoli and civic employee strikes are almost unheard of, in contrast to those in France and the like.


The media is in the business of sensationalising and speculating. I take this with a huge chunk of salt.




AirStairs


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4201 times:



Quoting AirStairs (Reply 17):
These are issues that most if not all countries are facing in some way or another, consumer debt being one that the US is particularly stung with.

Few countries do have extreme household deficits and trade balance deficits at the same time. Germany, China, Russia, Japan don't.

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 17):
I can't agree on your point of infrastructure, though: it is not perfect but extremely reliable.

Old aircraft, old cars, many bridges unstable (crash in MSP), electricity system from the 1930ss (blackout couple of years ago).


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

Well, in the two hours since my previous post about outsourcing, I did some laundry and ironing. I checked the label on a new shirt and got this:

VanHeusen
100% algodon
hecho in Cambodia


That's pretty good. Not even my consumer advisory tag can be printed in English.

VanHeusen you can go to hell. I don't mind that it is made in Cambodia or Nicaragua or Munchkinland, and I don't object to adding Spanish (porqué yo leo Español) but if you want to do business in "the largest market in the world" you need to at least acknowledge the majority of its people.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4191 times:



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 4):
Europe has a looooong way to go to achieve any kind of coherent and unified governing body that will allow it to have the diplomatic and economic influence on the world the US has.
Progress has been tremendous, but it's still no more than a bunch of very different countries that have facilitated exchange of goods and people amongst themselves, helped by a common currency.

It's also a very different model and very different vision. The U.S. was founded in one blow under a revolution with certain noble ideals of human rights and freedoms.

Europe was founded slowly, decades out from WWII. It was originally developed as an economic agreement, but now it is becoming more and more politicial. It lacks the pomp and circumstance of the U.S., but it is gaining more and more followers. Europe is expanding through voluntary addition. Europe basically sends the message that "If you like our model, you can come to us, and if we accept you, we will help you develop your economy so that you can participate in our economy." The human rights are not the big issue because they are simply a matter of course to Europe, not matters of ideal.

The GDP of the E.U. as a whole is larger than that of the U.S. However, it is more decentralized with a lower GDP per capita.

The entire idea of the E.U. is that it is supposed to be more Federalist than the U.S. is. That keeps it from becoming the same sort of monolithic nation that the U.S. has become. And in that, the E.U. doesn't believe in throwing its weight and might around like the U.S. does.

The E.U. is already the next economic superpower. It's just a new kind of superpower. And I like what I'm seeing.

The American empire is falling.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4186 times:



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):

I noticed you said NOTHING about your fellow Americans who have lost very good jobs from outsourcing. How typically Republican. No wonder the Average Joe has been screwed over the last 8 years.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4182 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
The fact you even ask that question makes me want to throw up. I guess, to you, there's nothing wrong wth taking good paying American jobs, with good benefits, and giving them to another nation, forcing your own countrymen to then look for jobs that don't pay nearly as wel,and with less benefits.

You know what really kills American jobs? Technology and innovation. We should probably ban both.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4174 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):

None of which has anything to do with 1. this thread or 2. the fact that you are a dog-in-the-manger internet troll still smarting from my calling you out on posting lies about me in another thread.

Actually all I ever needed to say about my "fellow Americans who have lost very good jobs from outsourcing" is right here:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
Business school brainwashees snicker and toss out buzzword-grenades but the most important thing a corporation can produce is jobs.

So American corporations, and foreign corporations wishing to do business in American markets need to produce American jobs.

Too complex a concept for you is it?



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14140 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

One thing you'll never hear from the business school wizards:
Only production and manufacturing creates wealth. Anything else (stock, finance and comodity trade, service industry) just redistributes existing wealth.
No economy can survive without a manufacturing base, and for this the economy needs skilled people, who know HOW to manufacture something. This doesn't just mean engineers and scientists, but also skilled workers and tradespeople.
If the industrial base of a country gets outsourced, the knowledge base will be destroyed and it will be much more difficult to recreate it.

Jan


25 TUNisia : The problem with this country (USA) is that we've gone from a country that manufactures mostly everything we need to a country that now imports mostly
26 MaidensGator : Where do you get the idea that a strong currency equals a strong economy? China is booming mainly due to an artificially low exchange rate pegged to
27 Post contains images NoUFO : Nope. No worries. I think you got him wrong. He was saying that you hear from those panic attacks ("sinking ship!") from time to time, and life just
28 Klaus : Let's wallow in the bliss of the moment, then!
29 Dougloid : I'm quite sure that if the US g=had a Hippocratic foreign policy with the oath's maxim "First, do no harm" that life would be a lot simpler.
30 Dougloid : Bah. Shop the secondary market. I got a Bolex tripod at an auction for a dollar. Nice one, too.
31 StarAC17 : He basically said what you did condensed here. I personally see outsourcing as a combination of greed (the evils of capitalism) and the lack of a wil
32 Klaus : Yeah, maybe in a better world...! In the meantime I'd even have settled for "don't do more harm than good" as an improvement. But I guess we'll get t
33 Klaus : And most consumers have proven they'll go for the cheap crap if given the choice (not all cheap crap is imported, by the way). Greed is the cause of
34 SlamClick : Ten consumers want the $1 item. One consumer wants the $10 version. The purveyor of the $1 item has to build ten widgets. Actually it will have to bu
35 Post contains links Sv7887 : I have to laugh at this...Have you actually lived in the EU? I'm a British citizen and I am sitting and laughing at the absurdity of this statement..
36 Photopilot : You know, I'm a manager in a union shop and it still bugs me to hear people blame the unions for all that ails a company. Did you ever look at a Unio
37 MaidensGator : Yes... Yes, and then they went looking for a place to outsource when the contract expired... Yes, through sick-outs, slowdowns, work stoppages, strik
38 AirStairs : All of those economies (barring Germany) benefit from extremely weak currencies that afford them huge trade surpluses. Russia also sits on a heap of
39 TUNisia : Where will these innovators come from that you allude to? Will they come from the US? A country that doesn't even teach geography to the majority of
40 StarAC17 : Star Wars does but it needed just to fill some sub-plots and thats about it. This is a huge issue that has gone crazy in the North America which is t
41 PPVRA : Don't be fooled by exchange rates. €1 bought almost 5 Polish Zlotys in early 2004, today €1 buys only 3.22 Polish Zlotys. Euro has lost value too
42 Klaus : Before (or better instead of) issuing such utterly laughable statements you should have informed yourself a bit better. Poland is being prepped for f
43 Post contains images TUNisia :
44 AirStairs : History shows that they do in fact come from the United States and secondarily Japan. The iPod is the perfect example. Google? Generated hundreds of
45 Steeler83 : Great post! Let's see here... What is outsourcing? It means pretty much what you already posted. Companies do that because to them, it's way cheaper
46 NoUFO : Then the Pound Sterling has lost much of its value, too. To be fair, the Polish strong and efficient economy is the main driving force behind the Zlo
47 NoUFO : I wonder how you want to keep those companies inside the U.S.A. if you ban outsourcing or heavily tax them?
48 Klaus : Absolutely — the issue is just that this is a rather normal transitional situation, Whether Poland can actually maintain a cost advantage over the
49 Klaus : On the other hand those same workers were so desperate to consume like there was no tomorrow that they just had to buy truckloads of cheap, imported
50 Flynavy : No, but this thread sure is.
51 IAirAllie : LMAO. It's not a gap it's a span. A gap sugests you only have citizens at the ultra rich and extreme poverty ends of the spectrum. In the US the bulk
52 DocLightning : I wasn't aware the EU existed back then. The EU did not exist before 1993. I can't argue with the unemployment, but I would rather high taxes with ad
53 United Airline : USA will remain no 1. The situation/sub prime crisis will be fixed eventually and USA will go up again. This is not a forever situation
54 Flynavy : Indeed. Though sometimes I wonder if certain members of this board would rather see the U.S. loose its position as the world leader it is.
55 NoUFO : What's a "world leader" anyway? What exactly is the U.S. leading other than itself?
56 Flynavy : Don't feign ignorance. You know exactly what I mean. The United States is "big papa" whether you like it or not.
57 NoUFO : Perhaps I do. I hear the U.S. is world leader in producing vacuum carburizing furnaces. Seriously: I (still) consider the U.S. a world power, but a w
58 Daedaeg : Great post. We certainly have issues, but the sky aint fallen yet.
59 Allstarflyer : During the last century, America was among the leaders in innovative technologies in the world. What's preventing the US from being so again? I'm sur
60 Dougloid : Have you ever taken any management theory coursework? What you're trying to do is impose certainty where there is none. It presupposes that the perso
61 Baroque : Nice epigram there Derico. You might want to copyright it, now that the copyright on Happy Birthday is in doubt, the copyright folk will be looking f
62 Dougloid : the notion that domestic economic policy can be separated from foreign policy was definitively discredited in the ruckus of the Smoot Hawley Tariff -
63 MD11Engineer : Maybe because more and more young people rather study law or business to make a fast buck than engineering and hard sciences. Even in the vocational
64 Arrow : One of the problems with "banning" something is that an innovative company will find an easy way around it. Ban outsourcing? Fine, we'll just shut do
65 Baroque : Domestic economics certainly feed to foreign policy, but it does seem that having been identified as bereft of foreign policies Bush has managed to a
66 MaidensGator : I can show you the part of the US Constitution that gives the President control over foreign and military affairs. I'd love it if you'd show me the p
67 Arrow : No question he needs help and validation from Congress for his domestic policies (e.g tax cuts), but that hasn't been lacking, has it? And Baroque is
68 Baroque : Well what can I say. That must not have been Bush advocating tax cuts, and I suppose there were no economic implications of an other policies, includ
69 MaidensGator : Not at all, and if you read my posts in this thread and others, you'll know that I am against borrowing, be it by the government or consumer. I hate
70 Victrola : Someone has been watching way too much Lou Dobbs. You might want to try reading an Economics 101 textbook instead. The average American has benifited
71 DocLightning : Well I was born here, I'm in the thick of it, and I'm saddened to see what I see.
72 Sv7887 : You conveniently ignore the origins of all that "wealth" and economic power....If you think the countries compromising the EU have any moral authorit
73 CasInterest : There are a few things wrong with this statement. Americans have not loss their jobs due to outsourcing, but rather Offshoring. Outsourcing is hiring
74 Dougloid : The difference between the days of Smoot Hawley-which was signed into law by the formost free market, rugged individualism Republican President of hi
75 Wardialer : Look, The US Dollar will vanish in about 5 years...and the EURO will take over. You think Im kidding?? Well, not. Anything is possible. The Dollar wil
76 CasInterest : Not outsourcing. It is called offshoring. There is a difference.
77 Wardialer : Just watch, the US Dollar and the economy is sinking...and of course, with the Dollar on the ship...
78 Arrow : Never suggested that you did. But you emerged from it as a superpower, both economic and military, while everyone else was scratching around in the r
79 CasInterest : The US Dollar will recover once Parity hits. And the Euro will follow the dollar soon. It cannot maintain it's high flying status with the high oil.
80 Victrola : Outsourcing or offshoring, whatever you want to call it is still beneficial to our country. In fact if you want to argue only about jobs, if all Amer
81 CasInterest : There is a huge difference. Outsourcing by itself is beneficial in many ways. So is offshoring. However offshoring is like a credit card. You reap th
82 Victrola : Having worked for international corporations in the United States in a skilled job along with many other Americans I beg to differ. I am sure that al
83 IAirAllie : I did a student exchange to London when I was in 9th grade. It was a real eye opener for me. It was an upper middle class area much like the one I wa
84 Dougloid : That is to say that there were and are economic benefits to policy. I think Marshall understood that in the long run his ideas would have a better pa
85 CasInterest : I am not proposing stopping it. I only say that offshoring will keep the US dollar going lower. It isn't a trend that can stop. What I am arquing wit
86 Victrola : This is true! We may be getting there soon if oil prices, and thus shipping prices continue to increase
87 AirStairs : Not in name, but in essence traces its origins back to the late 1950s when economic integration began with the EEC. Because you are somehow under the
88 Dougloid : You are wise beyond your years, Grasshopper.
89 Allstarflyer : Just an offbeat question . . . does anyone think that the privately-run Federal Reserve has a fat hand in the mix off all this - by "all this", I mean
90 StarAC17 : To think that the US will be number 1 forever is false, eventually some other power will succeed the US. It happened to the Egyptians, the Romans, th
91 Steeler83 : Wow, after reading yours and Airstairs' posts, I really hope you guys are right. You seem to make a lot of sense when talking about the US Dollar, ou
92 Duff44 : The Federal Reserve flooding the world with our currency devalues it
93 TUNisia : I sure hope it'll be soon. I'll be in Italy and Greece in a few weeks.
94 Travelin man : This is a seriously misguided position to take. I know there was a whole outsourcing/off-shoring discussion that happened, so I won't reiterate it. B
95 PPVRA : The reason does not matter. The Zloty has also lost value, but kept it better than most other currencies. My example was only an illustration that re
96 PPVRA : To put this in a better way, inflation has been lower than most other places, thus nominal and real rates are closer.
97 Super80DFW : I just think this is a funny video!
98 WunalaYann : Hopefully. Agreed. I agree to a point. I think this is a case of chicken and egg. In other words, how was consumer culture shaped? Did all the indivi
99 Wardialer : Well, The only thing I can see vanishing is the iall mighty dollar. In the next few upcoming years in all the Exchange Currency booths, we would see s
100 AirStairs : If you buy Euros you will be sitting pretty for a few years, but the dollar is not going anywhere. If there were any way you could actually put money
101 MaidensGator : I hope you do bet the farm on your proposition, because you're so ignorant that in your example (1 EURO = 0 USD), it's the Euro that's worthless, NOT
102 LifelinerOne : Which make is your camera from? And your lenses? Cheers!
103 Baroque : I was under the impression that both the Congress and the Pres severally have their sticky paws over the tax, borrow and spend parts of the economy.
104 Thorben : Been there five times. The US has an extremely weak currency, too. However, the difference between the poor and the rich is very big, and this leads
105 AirStairs : All branches have a veto, but the executive can only propose legislation (ie a budget or tax cuts) and that will make it to the floor as long as it i
106 CasInterest : What the Government has been trying to do since the Housing crisis began is to lower interest rates to help soften the blow to all the SubPrime refin
107 AirStairs : This I think was at least a partial failure of the looser interest rate policy began last summer. Rates are lower to encourage borrowing, but so many
108 CasInterest : Correct, but this also has the advantage of pulling us out of sync with the Euro , which will help bring the investors back to the dollar.
109 AGM100 : I was at a Marine watercraft store in Phoenix yesterday. Sitting talking with the sales manager about boats and business. He told me that they had sol
110 CasInterest : But, how many had he sold at the same time last year/ the year before?
111 AGM100 : Its a good point , but they seemed very optimistic . Again , listening to the doom and gloomers on in the press some may get the impression that we a
112 CasInterest : Yeah, but the big problem is that everyone seems to be holding off the layoffs till after the summer season. They are absorbing losses while hoping f
113 Baroque : I know what you mean AirS, but I fear the past in not quite "overwith". These bloody (in) or (un) securities have been bundled and flogged off all ov
114 IAirAllie :
115 EELonghorn : Its happining right now. In fact, I train my replacements in India. In the short term, you are right, it sucks. I will have to find another line of w
116 Steeler83 : That does make sense, come to think of it. I guess your post goes to show essentially how our economy goes through cycles. I am going to try and be l
117 JetMech : I'm curious as to why so much hate is always directed at the Chinese for the problems associated with outsourcing. I myself do not agree with outsour
118 MaidensGator : Actually, it is the refusal of the Chinese to allow market forces to work that has driven this phenomenon. The Chinese government has pegged its curr
119 Arrow : I'm not disagreeing with you on this, but the so-called developed world -- especially North America and the EU -- work their own subsidy magic on the
120 Baroque : Sounds as if EITHER you have not tried to buy a winter pullover* in recent years, or I need to go and shop in Canada. *Substitute the item of your ch
121 MaidensGator : I'd tend to agree so far as the subsidies, although propping up gasoline affects far more markets than subsidies on cotton. Energy costs are built in
122 Dougloid : You might want to take a look at how much money is involved in either side before you start suggesting some sort of equivalency here. Do you have the
123 Arrow : Well, I shouldn't have linked just cotton farmers with China -- but on a global basis a couple of quick and dirty numbers show the US ceiling for ag
124 Dougloid : You specifically named cotton so let's stick with that. Cotton subsidies in the US in 2002 were 1.7 billion USD according to the UN. I was able to fi
125 Arrow : I freely concede I don't know all the mechanics of how they work. I do know that in a number of commodities, they seriously distort global trade to t
126 MaidensGator : Are you kidding???? Wheat prices are through the roof... This may have been true in prior years, but now????
127 Arrow : You're right -- but that's a very recent phenomenon, following decades of lousy returns for farmers everywhere.
128 Baroque : Is there some arcane reason why sugar in not in that list, or was it an omission?
129 Dougloid : Sugar is not subsidized. There are tariffs attached. That's not the same thing, because the argument of most people who are uninformed is that 'Ameri
130 Baroque : Oh boy, you need to read up about the Aus farmers who in the past couple of years took advantage of this to sell forward only to have the rains fail
131 Arrow : Between 1995-2006, $22.1 billion was paid out in wheat subsidies to US farmers. 2006 is only 18 months ago. I don't know what your definition of "a l
132 Post contains links Arrow : Interesting article here, and on the subsidy/tariff topic The great Doha trade divide Rich countries, led by the United States and the European Union,
133 Post contains links Dougloid : What's your source for that information? That's true only if you believe the EWG reports. I'll take your word for it. What IS the reason the CWB was
134 Victrola : Proponents of farm subsidies always make these kinds of comments. They forget that prices of agricultural goods, like all other goods are a function
135 Arrow : You're right -- I got it from an EWG report, which I suspect you'll take issue with. That's fine, I just tried to dig up some other numbers, but the
136 Baroque : And of course a version of this is exactly what the large US companies are thinking about, but in THEIR hands. The US had best be careful though, the
137 AGM100 : I am not a expert , and I do not know all the numbers to rattle off . May I simplify the situation by stating that it is a case of the competition cat
138 PPVRA : To a good degree, I second that. On the other hand, look at immigration policies, and how they backfire. The U.S. (among other countries) regulates i
139 AA7295 : "Americans dare aspire to have the greatest country in the history of the world. We often fall short, but we make the effort. If you are feeling infer
140 Klaus : There is certainly not a single culprit there. In some ways it is a cultural issue, dependent on how much impact consumers cede to discount advertisi
141 Baroque : One of us might be getting a bit conflicted somewhere. "We"?????
142 KL773ER : Is it me or has every two-term US president left the American economy in a bad state before leaving office? -KL
143 MaidensGator : It's just you... The recent ones: Bill, economy pretty good in 2001 Reagan, pretty good in 1989 Before that, the last 2 termer was Ike, and the econo
144 DocLightning : Americans have the Right to Bear Arms. Other than that, please list one personal freedom that is not extended to any citizen of a member nation of th
145 MaidensGator : The Europeans put some restrictions on freedom of speech that are not found in the US. Also, freedom of the press is not guaranteed as it is in the U
146 Baroque : Thanks MaidensG, I was beginning to wonder if I had lived through a different 20th century!! Both Reagan and Clinton had low oil prices during their
147 Klaus : And vice versa. Although at least for my part I can easily live without spreading nazi propaganda which is apparently what you are alluding to. It is
148 MaidensGator : I was only responding to this: This poster asked for one example; I gave two off the top of my head. They happen to be two that our nation's founders
149 Post contains links PPVRA : "In the actions taken against broadcasters, critics charge that the FCC violates the First Amendment guarantee of Freedom of Speech, both directly by
150 Post contains images Klaus : And you were wrong. I would be really careful about boasting there. The ideals were there alright — realities were quite another cup of tea in many
151 MaidensGator : I wasn't wrong. You yourself gave an example of freedom of speech in Germany not being absolute. I'm not in favor of Nazi propaganda, but if it's ban
152 Klaus : Freedom of speech is never "absolute", anywhere. That's a fictional idea in the USA as well, the land of bleeped-out words in public broadcasts and s
153 Sv7887 : And who's fault is that? The so-called all powerful press didn't have the balls to stand up to a popular President. They were lacking guts and failed
154 Post contains links AverageUser : I think the U.S. is closest to the ideal of absolute free speech. You'll need to tolerate the kinds of the church of Fred Phelps that are nonsensical
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