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One Who'll Vouch For Officials Having Affairs.  
User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2789 posts, RR: 15
Posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 915 times:

Impeaching a president isn't good. Impeaching him for having an affair is just pathetic. Of course, we have to be politically correct. Clinton wasn't impeached for having an affair, he was impeached for lying under oath. But even so, there was - and always is - such a to-do about elected officials having affairs. (And I keep asking myself, why?)
While I highly suspect that any elected official will ever read this, I say nevertheless - go for it. And don't try so hard to keep it secret.
And while I even more suspect that Clinton will never read this, I'd still like to say that I think he was one hell of a president. Mistaken, as all humans are, from time to time, but not not a good man and a great leader.

Over the past year people have talked of Clinton's end with a sort of anger. How pathetic that such a great leader ended himself that way. How pathetic that he slipped like that.

So this is my message to our leaders, those who we respect, and those who work to keep us in a good country: as long as it doesn't effect me, my life, or my country, do what you will. Inhale. Have all the affairs you can fit into your schedule. Be human, by God. Be human.

And to everyone else, stop expecting them to be so much more.


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 896 times:

Why do I feel like you've just opened a can of worms?  Laugh out loud


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User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 893 times:

Because I'm like that  Wink/being sarcastic


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
User currently offlinePhlflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 889 times:

God help this country.

User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 888 times:

That elected leaders have affairs is hardly surprising, or shocking. Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, and politics is an all-consuming career incompatible with any sort of normal family life.

But their sexual adventures make for interesting news and excellent gossip, so it gets covered. The media folk would probably want me crucified to a tree for saying this, but the news isn't about informing or educating people -- it's about entertaining them. If they're bored, they'll go elsewhere. So, when sex comes up as an issue, the broadcasters and print media see dollar signs, and ambitious politicians see the chance to get some free publicity.



User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 882 times:

So, when sex comes up as an issue, the broadcasters and print media see dollar signs...

So true.

I'm hardly what you'd call a Clinton fan, so this theory may be a bit biased. But here it is: Clinton was hardly a good man. Need I remind you? Whitewater, Cattlegate, "I didn't inhale," Monica, the definition of what "is" is, Perjury, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman..." And the list goes on. Now, because of this, he and his staff were always too busy doing damage control and scandal-killing for him to be the great leader that he touts himself as. And that's the point where it becomes my business, as an American citizen. (Nevermind that I strongly disagreed with most of his policy.) Because of all his dishonesty, I'd always be highly suspect of anything he tried to do. I'd be thinking "what's in it for you?" This is why there is no such thing as a "private" life for a public official. Not when we've placed so much trust in him.

And if we, as a country don't trust or don't care what the president is doing, then we are headed for some serious trouble.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21382 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 873 times:

Intimate affairs and politics are two very distinct matters. Whenever I watch american political analysts with serious faces discussing who slept with whom I just can´t believe it.

Both our chancellor and our foreign minister happen to be in their respective fourth marriages (as far as I remember). Others are divorced or live with their girlfriends/boyfriends. So what? It´s a non-issue. Someone having an affair, being gay, whatever? Nobody cares, unless it directly interferes with their office (which happens very rarely).


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 867 times:

>>as long as it doesn't effect me, my life, or my country, do what you will.<<

But it DOES effect you! It could have been devastaing to our national security. People wonder what Condit would've done to protect himself when he was sitting on the elite intelligence council in the US House.

Just think what Clinton could have to done to protect himself. I just know that he flat out lied to his wife, his daughter, his family and the world.

I know it's easy to say "who cares", but sometimes you must care...

>>It´s a non-issue. Someone having an affair,<<

I think it's an issue, call me a puritan or backward, but I think it says something about you when you are unable to hold a person to person realtionship with someone.

view people who have affairs the same way I view 22 year olds who have had 50 boyfirends/girlfriends or people who have remarried 6 times, or have changed jobs 25 times within 2 years. Whatever takes place between them and myself, I'll always view them with a belief that they can't commit to anything.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21382 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 859 times:

PanAm747: I think it's an issue, call me a puritan or backward, but I think it says something about you when you are unable to hold a person to person realtionship with someone.

In almost all cases it just says you´re a politician who´s leading a life that´s extremely disruptive to personal relationships. Which the life of a dedicated (and possibly good) politician almost always is.

PanAm747: view people who have affairs the same way I view 22 year olds who have had 50 boyfirends/girlfriends or people who have remarried 6 times, or have changed jobs 25 times within 2 years. Whatever takes place between them and myself, I'll always view them with a belief that they can't commit to anything.

Sometimes, there is such a connection. More often there isn´t. Sorry, but having to endure the hell of your failed first marriage just for the sake of an over-intrusive public doesn´t make you a better politician. Nor does it make you a better person, for that matter.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 851 times:

Klaus-

That doesn't make sense. That's like you saying Bush is a terrible President because he has a GOOD relationship with his staff.

Leadership and politics is all about relationships, pure and simple. If you don't have good relations with your fellow leaders and your citizens, you are on your way out. Just ask Congressman James Trafficant, he's about to order his moving van in a few weeks.

>>Sometimes, there is such a connection. More often there isn´t. Sorry, but having to endure the hell of your failed first marriage just for the sake of an over-intrusive public doesn´t make you a better politician. Nor does it make you a better person, for that matter.<<

I'm not against divorce, but I have to wonder why that guy you mentioned has been divorced 4 times. He couldn't learn from the first two? There are plenty of couples who keep strong marriages even though they have seperate careers and endure many days apart.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 842 times:

So this is my message to our leaders, those who we respect, and those who work to keep us in a good country: as long as it doesn't effect me, my life, or my country, do what you will. Inhale. Have all the affairs you can fit into your schedule. Be human, by God. Be human.

That's fine by me too. Except Bill Clinton's quest for self fulfillment was so politically incorrect that he effin' lied to Congress, lied to the American People, and lied to Ken Starr.

Part of the seperation of private and public matters is that integrity and honesty must be demonstrated at all costs; otherwise the trust that the private really IS irrelevant is broken.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21382 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 839 times:

PanAm747: That doesn't make sense. That's like you saying Bush is a terrible President because he has a GOOD relationship with his staff.

No, not because of that.  Wink/being sarcastic
But politicians on his level of responsibility usually can´t afford to do it as a 9-to-5 job - unless their staff is covering for him on the "leftovers". That´s where I´m not really impressed.

PanAm747: Leadership and politics is all about relationships, pure and simple. If you don't have good relations with your fellow leaders and your citizens, you are on your way out. Just ask Congressman James Trafficant, he's about to order his moving van in a few weeks.

Leadership also means you´re on top of the issues. And that requires effort. A lot of effort in a top job.

PanAm747: I'm not against divorce, but I have to wonder why that guy you mentioned has been divorced 4 times.


Three times, actually, for both our chancellor Gerhard Schröder and our foreign minister Joschka Fischer, so far.  Wink/being sarcastic And both are doing very decent jobs.

Contrary to the former chancellor Helmut Kohl, for instance, who had a very conventional family situation but nearly ran our state finances into the ground while very likely accepting party donations in return for manipulating privatisation of state-owned conglomerates. If it hadn´t been for his role in the re-unification, he might have gone to jail for refusing to speak up about his role in the infamous CDU donations scandal.

We´ve already had to watch far too many of the most pronounced "law and order" and "moral values" proponents going down in flames to still believe that ancient myth.

PanAm747: He couldn't learn from the first two? There are plenty of couples who keep strong marriages even though they have seperate careers and endure many days apart.

Yes. But even more don´t make it under circumstances such as this.
There are numerous examples of people with messy and unimpressive personal lives who put all their effort into their position - and excel at that. And on the other hand you´ll find any number of hypocrites and bigots with supposedly perfect family lives and "values" who just can´t be bothered with the responsibility they´ve got in their jobs.

This supposed link just doesn´t exist - it´s a myth. Which becomes very clear under circumstances with less conformity pressure.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 836 times:

I guess you are saying you can't have a true balance between family and work, especially at a top position.

I for one, believe you should always have to have your family and values as your top priority. Work comes next and there is no reason why you can't be successful in both aspects.

Both Bush I and Jimmy Carter had high moral values and very good family lives. The Bush family always had reunions at Kennebunkport even during the presidency.

Both former Presidents have been married for 50+ years to the same woman (what a concept!).

Also, both performed well in their duties in public office, and especially during wars.

I personally value the character of these two men a lot more than the character of Clinton, even with the economy (which he had no effect on).



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSophiemaltese From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2064 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 832 times:

If you want to have an affair get a damn divorce.

User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 824 times:

If you got a divorce it wouldn't be an affair  Wink/being sarcastic

(Now I'm just playing devil's advocate)



"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
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