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Ooops, Where's The Editor At? "President" Obama?  
User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

Jumping the gun by a few months I would say. Where are those vaunted editors at?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080724/ap_on_el_pr/obama_germany

"Obama said he was speaking as a citizen, not as a president, but the evening was awash in politics."

Actually he said he was not there as a Presidential candidate but as a citizen of his country and a citizen of the world. After hearing the speech I have to wonder where Andrea Kent is? There was a lot of one world government reference in that speech.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 2177 times:

You know what I didn't notice once in his speech? An unadulterated word of praise for America. Sure, he wasn't bashing America like his wife, but instead sought to apologize for America in typical world-opinion-dictates, liberal fashion. Barack is no better than your average leftist college professor. He believes that he has reached his position in spite of America, not because of it. Make no mistake, like many American liberals, Barack Obama is embarrassed by his country. He's not proud of it. Anyway, I hope the Germans enjoyed his groveling and hypersensitivity.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 2171 times:
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Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
ou know what I didn't notice once in his speech? An unadulterated word of praise for America.

"Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for President, but as a citizen - a proud citizen of the United States,"

"But I also know how much I love America. I know that for more than two centuries, we have strived - at great cost and great sacrifice"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/24/obama.words/index.html

Maybe McCain cant use the internet.. but i'm sure you can Google..

[Edited 2008-07-24 12:32:59]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 12 hours ago) and read 2080 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter):
Jumping the gun by a few months I would say. Where are those vaunted editors at?

I have no idea what you're talking about; I didn't see anywhere in the article where it states President Obama. Your daily tread of bashing Obama is getting very old.


User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1354 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 12 hours ago) and read 2068 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
You know what I didn't notice once in his speech? An unadulterated word of praise for America.

Apparently you didn't listen to his speech. I heard him praise America on several occasions, as was referenced by mt99 above, and he even wore a flag lapel pin!
JCS17, your credibility here is shrinking faster than John McCain's geography IQ.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
I have no idea what you're talking about; I didn't see anywhere in the article where it states President Obama. Your daily tread of bashing Obama is getting very old.

That's for sure.  checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineAirStairs From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 12 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

I caught the last several minutes of this speech and found it to be the kind of nauseating vomit that spews forth from hollow politicians at all points along the spectrum. He talks about a lot of goals and ideals and feelings with no pragmatic solution nor a way to get from here to there.

Even the MSNBC commentators noted that "McCain could have comfortably made the same speech." It was not about actual solutions or even actual attempts at solutions (which is where the candidates diverge), it was about the "feel good" factor of vague, generalist politics and being a culture hero. Enough!


User currently offlineIH8BY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1142 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 12 hours ago) and read 2039 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
You know what I didn't notice once in his speech? An unadulterated word of praise for America. Sure, he wasn't bashing America like his wife, but instead sought to apologize for America in typical world-opinion-dictates, liberal fashion. Barack is no better than your average leftist college professor. He believes that he has reached his position in spite of America, not because of it. Make no mistake, like many American liberals, Barack Obama is embarrassed by his country. He's not proud of it. Anyway, I hope the Germans enjoyed his groveling and hypersensitivity.

I'm not entirely sure what you think he should have said instead. The way in which the world has moved over the best part of the last decade means that going into a country and delivering a piece of jingoistic rhetorical flagwaving would be a pointless exercise. Acknowledging that the actions of the US have been unpopular in other parts of the world is hardly an unpatriotic sentiment - Obama's foreign policy stance is constantly under intense scrutiny, and delivering a speech which glossed over the genuine issue of the US's reputation in the world (and I know you may not think that matters) would most likely have made him look as internationally naive as his opponents suggest.

Just words, spoken on a stage in a country which has no say in his election to office and which matters little to many US citizens, but given that the political United States has come to define itself almost universally by its foreign policy since 2001, recognising and interacting with the rest of the world seems not to be an entirely imprudent manner in which to go about identifying oneself with that country.



Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

My goodness they even quoted my congressman:

"In Die Welt, the German publication, Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-Mich., wrote scathingly of the Democratic candidate and his views on Iraq and the rest of the world: "No one knows which Obama will show. Will it be the ideological, left-wing Democratic primary candidate who vowed to 'end' the war rather than win it, or the Democratic nominee who dismisses the progressing coalition victory as a 'distraction'? Will it be the American populist who has told supporters in the United States that he will demand more from our allies in Europe and get it, or the liberal internationalist hell-bent on being liked in Europe's salons?"

Wow, another reason why I voted against Thad twice already. Too bad I'm moving out of his district.


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 2012 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
I have no idea what you're talking about; I didn't see anywhere in the article where it states President Obama.

Then put your glasses on.

Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter):
Obama said he was speaking as a citizen, not as a president



Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
Your daily tread of bashing Obama is getting very old.

I said that a long time ago about the current President but it didn't slow anybody down. BTW this wouldn't be a trashing of Sen. Obama so much as a questioning of the writers of the story and the editors that are supposed to look them over before publishing. As I stated,

Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter):
Actually he said he was not there as a Presidential candidate but as a citizen of his country and a citizen of the world.

. So I did give him credit for his accuracy.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 1984 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 8):
I have no idea what you're talking about; I didn't see anywhere in the article where it states President Obama.

Then put your glasses on.

Once again I read the article, no where does it refer to President Obama. Since I'm so hard of seeing, perhaps you can enlighten us to where in the article Sen. Obama is labeled as President Obama.


User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4383 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 1975 times:

Wooow. Your need to stat a a thread on this speaks volumes.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8124 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 1944 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
but instead sought to apologize for America in typical world-opinion-dictates, liberal fashion

A positive world opinion of America, especially in Europe, greatly benefits trade and long-term economic stability. I don't know what's with the knee-jerk reaction to any suggestion of the sort other than deep bitterness resulting from exposure to a few equally jingoistic European a.net posters.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 7):
Will it be the American populist who has told supporters in the United States that he will demand more from our allies in Europe and get it, or the liberal internationalist hell-bent on being liked in Europe's salons?

Isn't being well-liked in Europe part and parcel to having the ability to demand more from them? This guy is out to lunch if he thinks these things are mutually exclusive.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5516 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 1938 times:

Perhaps the mistake was caught and fixed. I guess that's the end of that.

User currently offlineAviationMaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2481 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 1928 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
You know what I didn't notice once in his speech? An unadulterated word of praise for America.

Did you have your TV on mute? He praised America time and time again.

It seems to me that no matter what Obama tries to win over voters, there will always be that scared bunch who will continue to try and find any little piece of negativity in order to justify a vote against him.

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 5):
"McCain could have comfortably made the same speech."



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 2):
"Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for President, but as a citizen - a proud citizen of the United States,"

Who cares if McCain could have made the same speech? That was not the point of Obama's action today in Berlin.

Besides, after 8 years of having to endure Bush's mediocre speeches, its nice to see an American politician speaking freely and without stuttering to a large crowd.  Wink


User currently offlineAirStairs From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 1909 times:



Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 13):
Who cares if McCain could have made the same speech? That was not the point of Obama's action today in Berlin.

Eh.. I kind of do, in that I am so fucking sick-- pardon my language but it has to be emphasised-- of the "media analyses" and image-making that goes on; this election has been even more overblown because of the dragged out primaries. I care only about what each proposes to do policy-wise, how exactly they plan to do it, and what contingencies they have in case it goes wrong.

Their judgment, background, and "leadership qualities" (an amorphous, meaningless term today) are only important to me in that they will enhance or diminish his ability to gather the necessary resources to implement policy goals. Of course I want a president with a "good" personality or image but that is about the last consideration of many. I would rather a bumbling, shy dork who happens to be a pragmatic policy genius in office than the opposite. But that will never happen because of the image politics that took root with the arrival of print and television.

The point of Obama's action today in Berlin was brand management as usual. I would be singing a different tune if he proposed anything concrete or sensible but, par the course, he dealt in sweeping generalities and lofty ambitions (the end of nuclearism and AIDS and the Arab-Israeli conflict and cozy Russian relations? please...and that was just the beginning).

Mr Obama is a PR man and a cultural revolutionary. The Oval Office is not the appropriate venue.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 1854 times:
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Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 13):
Who cares if McCain could have made the same speech? That was not the point of Obama's action today in Berlin.



Quoting AirStairs (Reply 14):
The point of Obama's action today in Berlin was brand management as usual

You honestly think that McCain would have given up the same chance if he could have had it?

Didnt McCain go to Colombia? What was that all about?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineAviationMaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2481 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1782 times:



Quoting AirStairs (Reply 14):
I would be singing a different tune if he proposed anything concrete or sensible but, par the course, he dealt in sweeping generalities and lofty ambitions (the end of nuclearism and AIDS and the Arab-Israeli conflict and cozy Russian relations? please...and that was just the beginning).

Then tell me, what should he have spoken about? Obama didn't speak to the people of Berlin in order to win their votes for the November election, that was not the point of his action yesterday.

Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter):
he said he was not there as a Presidential candidate but as a citizen of his country and a citizen of the world.



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 15):
You honestly think that McCain would have given up the same chance if he could have had it?

Given the chance, he probably would have done the exact same thing - the only difference, I doubt over 100.000 people would have showed up.

Why involve McCain, when yesterday's stunt had nothing to do with the actual Presidential campaign itself? Had Obama said at the beginning of his speech, that he was there to speak as a Presidential candidate, then the whole case would be different.

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 14):
Mr Obama is a PR man and a cultural revolutionary. The Oval Office is not the appropriate venue.

Since when hasn't PR belonged to a political campaign?


All I can say is good luck to America in November, you guys need it.  Wink


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

Oh well we worked out the agenda of one poster, they received a lower grade than "expected" from a teacher who was promptly assessed by the pupil as a left-leaning professor.

Now to work out some other agenda items.

There does seem to be a message for the more persistent posters of one side of an argument, even when you tone down apparent criticism with an accurate statement, it is just assumed you are continuing the bias. There is probably a lesson hidden in that little sequence.


User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1730 times:

Couple things with the speech. He says he was not there as a presidential candidate, but as a citizen. Well, that is not true, he would not be speaking in front of 100k plus German people unless he was in fact, a presidential candidate.

Then, he cancels his visit with injured American troops in Germany because it would not be appropriate on a campaign funded trip. So its ok to speak to the German masses as just a citizen of the US, but not visit the troops?

Even a political lay man like me can see that there is something wrong with that logic.



Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1710 times:



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
You know what I didn't notice once in his speech? An unadulterated word of praise for America. Sure, he wasn't bashing America like his wife, but instead sought to apologize for America in typical world-opinion-dictates, liberal fashion.

Have you ever thought that America has a lot to apologize for?

Much of the rest of the world (gasp!) doesn't like us! If you're doing whats best not only for your country (but also the world, by trying to get people in the rest of the world to appreciate the United States again), you're not going to go to a part of the world that looks upon America as a bully and start singing praises for how wonderful and majestic the country is.

You really haven't figured out that world opinion actually does dictate! The United States is about 5 percent of the population of the earth. 300 million v. 6 billion. We don't rule the world, and we're having less and less of an influence, helped even more so by your favorite president.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1702 times:



Quoting Planespotting (Reply 19):
Have you ever thought that America has a lot to apologize for?

So doesn't Europe for their blatant colonization campaigns in India and Africa! Ask France about their contracts with Saddam. Then ask Kofi Annan about the blatant corruption in the UN oil for food program (His son got caught with his hands in the cookie jar)

They are hardly ones to throw stones! I haven't seen them apologize or pay their former colonies reparations. Just because they are further removed from it, doesn't make it right!!!!!

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 19):
Much of the rest of the world (gasp!) doesn't like us! If you're doing whats best not only for your country (but also the world, by trying to get people in the rest of the world to appreciate the United States again), you're not going to go to a part of the world that looks upon America as a bully and start singing praises for how wonderful and majestic the country is.

Then tell them to stop sitting on their hands vis a vis Darfur and not call for the USA to act as the world's policeman. They are hypocrites. One minute America is a bully the next minute they don't care.

It's easier for others to complain than to do anything...As an immigrant, I can tell you America at least TRIES to do something rather than engage in pointless dialogue.

Okay America isn't right all the time, but at least when they screw up (Somalia, Iraq, etc) they try to make amends for it by allowing citizens of said countries to come to the USA.

Specifically, the US has been a Pakistani ally, but that didn't stop them from sending Grain and food to India in the 1950's and 60's, grain that my father ate and grew up on in the villages of India. He never forgot that it was the Americans who sent that grain..Low and behold some 40 years later we are here,and we do our best to be good Americans.

Like I said in numerous posts "Everyone" doesn't hate the USA. The record demand for H-1B visas ought to tell you this..

-Sam


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1702 times:
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Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 20):
Okay America isn't right all the time, but at least when they screw up (Somalia, Iraq, etc) they try to make amends for it by allowing citizens of said countries to come to the USA.

Excuse me? I wasnt aware of this immigration policy. Could you enlighten me.. Thanks



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDavehammer From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1687 times:



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 20):
They are hardly ones to throw stones! I haven't seen them apologize or pay their former colonies reparations. Just because they are further removed from it, doesn't make it right!!!!!

No it absolutely doesn't make it right. The majority of people over here are aware that the European 'empires' did some horrendous things which shouldn't be forgotten, but when does history draw a line? What would hollow apologies from people who have had nothing to do with colonisation actually achieve? European people are currently (rightly or wrongly, however you may feel) angry about actions that the US are currently engaged in. Acts that are occurring now. While the awful bi-products of colonisation should never be forgotten I fail to see why people cannot hold a contrary opinion on the matter in 2008.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 20):
! Ask France about their contracts with Saddam

Ask many people in many countries about their contracts/dealings with Saddam.


User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1666 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 21):

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 20):
Okay America isn't right all the time, but at least when they screw up (Somalia, Iraq, etc) they try to make amends for it by allowing citizens of said countries to come to the USA.

Excuse me? I wasnt aware of this immigration policy. Could you enlighten me.. Thanks

Here's one on Somalia...It's interesting to see the tensions the favorable US policy towards them have created:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

There are numerous pictures of the US exit from Vietnam with Vietnamese clinging to the helicopters..There are tons of Vietnamese people in Boston who came during the war. They are very hardworking and proud to be here.

Quoting Davehammer (Reply 22):
European people are currently (rightly or wrongly, however you may feel) angry about actions that the US are currently engaged in. Acts that are occurring now. While the awful bi-products of colonisation should never be forgotten I fail to see why people cannot hold a contrary opinion on the matter in 2008.

You are completely right. They are perfectly entitled to an opinion, however the USA is not on some colonizing binge..If they are, they've done a horrendous job because their last two adventures Iraq and Vietnam cost them a fortune.

Quoting Davehammer (Reply 22):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 20):
! Ask France about their contracts with Saddam

Ask many people in many countries about their contracts/dealings with Saddam.

That's my point...Everyone has done shady things, USA included. I think you are right in how you've laid out your discussion. Good post!

-Sam


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