Aviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 787 times:
One may die in battle in a war. His actions in fighting in a war may be heroic, however this doesn't necessarily make him a hero.
On a sidenote...this American journalist who was murdered in Pakistan recently. I have seen editorials and such describing him as a hero and a patriot to his country. What exactly did he do which was so heroic or patriotic?
The word "hero" is a term (like patriot) which is bandied around so much these days, that people tend to lose site of the meaning of the word. That is my outlook on things.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10794 posts, RR: 52 Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 776 times:
I would definitely say the use of the word 'Hero' has been a little overdone recently. Dying does not make you a hero. Dying for your cause when you'd much rather live does. I think the jury is out on whether this soldier was heroic.
Toadpipe From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 737 times:
Aviatsya and DLX, you people have no idea what it is like to go through SEAL training and what these boys go through doing their jobs ( being a away from family friends, showers,watching others die,etc..) they are all heroes and they could eat a sandwich and be heroic doing it. They put their life on the line fighting for our country or in training, every frickin day. One of my good friends was part of the first SEAL team in Iraq during Desert Storm, he is a hero. This fine Petty officer who died was a hero, they are not cowards, they don't train to die, they train to kick A$$ and be able to live another day, knowing full well they might die. They don't do it for pay (they surely don't get rich) or for outside prestige ( because most of what they do, they can't even talk to their own wives about) or for a free ticket to paradise, they do it because they realise somebody must and most won't. If they wanted to die, they could blow their own brains out, they are more than capable, so save your psychoanalysis for someone else. Let us, who appreciate men like these who fight and keep watch so we can live freely and sleep sound at night, mourn our Hero. Being willing to freely sacrifice your life for another whom you don't know and so others can enjoy benefits you must go without is heroic. Hitting a baseball or slam dunking a ball is not, flying a plane into a tower so you can reap the benefits of a free ticket to paradise is not.
Pacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2699 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 726 times:
A little touchy there aren't you Toadpipe ? Some people including myself were simply questioning the apparent over use of the word hero. No one was insulting PO Roberts or his comrades so just calm down.
Obviously you interpret it very, very broadly but others do not. I am curious though that if someone is a hero for simply being in the military as you seem to think, what adjective do you use to describe someone who does something truly and clearly 'brave', saving someone else's life at obvious risk to there own for example ?
It does always amaze me that people are in awe - as you are - of those who chose a military career. Military people are not special and you would find the same gammit of qualities there as in any other place. People deserve our respect, or otherwise, on thier personal qualities regardless of wether they wear a uniform or not.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12952 posts, RR: 79 Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 719 times:
ALL of the service people engaged in action are very brave, some are geniune heros.
But yes, the word is overused, by the media.
It is not a good idea to over-personalise the military, not exactly the way to prepare the nation for potential casualties.
Sometimes it raises expectations that a military can do wonders, always get their people out, (a recent thread in many Hollywood movies).
This can backfire when things get rough.
An example, they recently made a film (Behind Enemy Lines), very loosely based on the story of an F-16 pilot shot down over the former Yugoslavia.
In real life, the pilot did as he was trained, sat tight, kept quiet, until the recovery team could get to him.
Not discover mass civillian graves like in the movie, but I've not seen it so no other details, but I bet it wasn't just him lying low, cold and wet.
In real life, the press went mad when the F-16 pilot returned home, photo with the President, the whole works. They said he was a hero.
Arguably he wasn't, he'd done OK not to get captured.
In a review of this film, a commentator sourly noted that when the real event with the F-16 pilot was happening, and dominating the media, a group of French peacekeepers were defending their position against a Bosian Serb attack, they were outnumbered 50-1, but held the enemy off and were saved when re-enforcements arrived.
That was rather more heroic, but not much about it in the European media, and nothing in the US.
Not attacking the F-16 pilot, he did his job and those who rescued him were very brave, but this media/Hollywood overkill is unhealthy, and may rebound one day.
I hope I've got my point across OK!
Aviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 697 times:
You have just proven that heroism is very subjective; depending on where you are coming from. The people who flew the aircraft into the WTC and Pentagon may not be heroes or heroic in your eyes, but to others they are in fact heroes.
This SEAL may be a hero to you and many other people, but to others he is simply a person who is doing a job he is paid to do.
You are right...there is a difference. Basically, anything which is promoted by hollywood as being a true story, you can basically dismiss as actually being a lie, or at least a story in which the truth is stretched so far out that the line between truth and fiction was crossed by the time the opening credits are finished.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10794 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 685 times:
Toadpipe, you need to read my post again, and not put words in my mouth.
Fact is, you don't know the circumstances upon which this person fell out of the helicopter. If he was shot, he's a victim. If he jumped out to save another, he's a hero. But you don't know that.
If you grant 'hero' status to everyone that dies, you have no way to distinguish those that truly go above and beyond the call of duty.
The point is, it's early; way too early to judge considering how little information there is about this seal's circumstances.
To relate to the Scott O'Grady story (the F16 over Yugoslavia), he was definitely NOT a hero. His missile alarm sounded, and he *turned it off* because of the noise. Then, he was hit. Notice how he wasn't flying F16s anymore after that? Not a hero.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12952 posts, RR: 79 Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 680 times:
The point I was trying to make was the expectation of military perfection, including none or very few bodybags, built up in the media, mostly by movies, which can create unrealistic demands of the military by the public.
Then when things get tough, bloody and confused, support for military action may evaporate.
Clipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 12 Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 669 times:
Let me educate some of you. A person, who joins the Military of the United States of America, who "makes" the U.S. Navy S.E.A.L. team, who travels half way around the world, who supports and defends the Constitution of the United States of America, who risks his life, who forges into battle without hesitation, who is captured on the ground by Arab(scum) terrorists, who is brutally executed without any compassion, and who dies at the hand of people who have an absolute hatred for Americans like myself is nothing short of a hero in my book.
Thank God there are more people in MY country like Petty Officer 1st Class Neil Roberts.
If that is not a hero, those of you who question the meaning of the word hero need to look hard at just what you have read and ponder the word and its deep meaning.
(Perhaps it takes only an American and his veiwpoint to understand this. After all there are still people who call certain despots of the past 75 years, heros.)
Clipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 643 times:
Very interesting Aviatsia.ru. But you also miss the point and don't get it also. Like I said, it is an American perspective. All others need not concern themselves.Hence the title of the post. "America's Newsest Hero."
And now moving on...to more important things.
777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 635 times:
Erm, no. Not moving on. Aparantly no one "gets it" apart from you.
This guy is a hero because he died. DIRECTLY as a result of his death serving in the military. You didn't meantion serving officers as heros and in your first post you implied his death made him a hero.
Why do i need an American perspective? I have a British perspective, and our armed forces personel do die too sometimes, but I don't call someone who's died in the armed forces a hero right away, just because of his death, which you seem to have done.
25 Aviatsiya.ru: Clipperhawaii It may be very interesting, but before moving on, I do get what you are saying, and I have answered your posts. Going by what you are sa
26 ILOVEA340: I am american and so fed up with the american view of this war. If one US man dies in combat it is on the front page of every major newpaper and he is
27 L-188: This is where I give the american people some credit. Most people seem to realize that the war effore has gone remarkably well. CNN had one of those l
28 Pacificjourney: L-188 Beware of polls as a source of anything except cheap populist journalism. Ask these same people the same questions next week and who knows what
29 Toadpipe: I wish every one of our wars had so few American casualties, so every one who died serving (key word here serving) our Country could be given the reco