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User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1160 times:

Just thought I'd write about my disappointment on this forum, as my problem is remotely related to a.net...
So here goes, last year I applied to The Ohio State University choosing Aviation Management as major.
Now, I've never been so sure of myself, it is what I want to do most, nothing else, I love the subject and nothing matters more to me than studying it.
I graduated this year from high school in Switzerland and that's where the problem began... As some may know, grades aren't very important for universities in the country neither for other institutions for that matter, and teachers never grade easily... it's a bit like the watch industry, they look for perfection. Even though your work is excellent, you'll very rarely get the best grade possible i.e. 6/6.
My average is about 4.5 which is pretty good according to my advisor, but the OSU admissions office believed otherwise... they strangely enough converted it to the A,B,C system and concluded I had C+  Confused And decided I wasn't good enough for them.
I have wasted my time on a lot of their tests and scored quite high... 113 on TOEFL IBT and 28 in maths and science on the ACT (for those who know what it means), instead of considering my ACT results (which they claim to give a real good general idea of my academic capacities in comparison with the American high school students), they reviewed my Swiss high school half term results without having a clue of what they meant and rejected my application.
Now I don't really care if I'm not going to OSU this September, what really matters to me is to study CAM (commercial aviation management) wherever, I'm not even asking to go to prestigious universities, the subject is important to me, nothing else.
If you've had the patience to read my post (and I thank you for it) I'd love to know what you think and if by the slightest chance you have a suggestion, please feel free to post it.
By the way, I'm thinking of applying to the University of Western Ontario, again they have the major I'm interested in and this time, I really don't want to have the same problem, I want them to understand my situation.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1147 times:

This might help from Wikepeda: Undergraduate admissions to Ohio State are classified as “more selective” by US News & World Report and The Princeton Review and according to the data are the most selective for any public university in Ohio. The 2007 freshman class had an acceptance rate of 52%, and the enrolled freshman class had the following composition: students graduating in the top 10% of their high school class (57%); the top 25% of their high school class (91%); the top 50% of their high school class (99%). 27% of the freshman class scored in the top 3% of the SAT or ACT, while 72% scored in the top 15%. The middle 50% range of ACT scores for the enrolled class was 26-30, with an average ACT score of 27. Of the 6,122 members of the 2006 freshman class, 290 had been named valedictorian of their high school's graduating class.[31] Ohio State’s freshman class has admitted over 100 National Merit Scholars for nine of the last ten years.[32]

Your ACT appears to be just about average, and you appear not to be an Ohio resident, so it looks like they held you to a higher standard. P.S. as someone that went to school in Michigan you're not missing much at The Ohio State University.  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1141 times:

Probably not, anyway I'm going to a much better uni, starting September 15th. I'm going to UNIL (Universite de Lausanne) and chose Economics as major at the HEC (Haute Ecole de Commerce). Still, I don't want to do that cause I prefer CAM by far, so ultimately, that's what I'm going to do, don't know how yet, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Your help would be very much appreciated.
I've been thinking of doing my whole application through an agent of some kind, like that I'll be less in the dark and will know if I stand a chance by their standards or not.


User currently offlineDc-9-10 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 584 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1131 times:

As a non Ohio resident they would have held you to a higher standard because OSU is a very popular public university in the US. But as a student in Switzerland I would have figured they would have been more lenient (US universities LOVE foreign students) and accepted you but not given a scholarship. Undergraduate students are very cheap to educate and they would be able to get a lot of money out of you because you are not an Ohio resident while still being able to brag even more so about the number of international students they have. I think we have a classic case of US high school grade inflation at its best.

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1121 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 1):
P.S. as someone that went to school in Michigan you're not missing much at The Ohio State University

Bias... Try the football team, pro.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1117 times:

Just one more example of how OSU sucks.

Go Gators!


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1116 times:



Quoting Dc-9-10 (Reply 3):
I think we have a classic case of US high school grade inflation at its best.

I can't say that for sure, but of what I've heard and experienced, I must agree with you.
But then again, I do not approve of the Swiss system either... Just wish I could fix it somehow, this grade problem really sucks...
My mom told me to go anyway and do a year of community college, get good grades then go to university, is that an option? How does that work? How hard is it to get accepted by them?

I really appreciate your replies!


User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1087 times:

Universities are fairly good at determining what is what when it comes to grades and applying that interpretation to your acceptance. Your ACT is average, but what you have going for you is that you are, as someone said, an International student. Now having said that, you are not an Ohio resident, and given that it is a public university with great funding from the state of Ohio, you might have been given less priority over an Ohio resident. While the universities make less money on non-residents, they are probably mandated to accept a certain number of resident students.

Have you ever thought about looking into a smaller private University? They are REAL big on international students, however, much much MUCH more exepsnsive than a public university.

UAL


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1076 times:

I've thought about it, but budget is a problem... My ACT is only average? Wasn't what the results were saying... Anyway, it's only a ridiculously easy test, but badly time limited (what they really love apparently), interesting...
I've heard Canadian Universities are more open to non-state applicants, can anyone confirm that?


User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1075 times:

I didn't get into The Ohio State University either and I had a 1380 on my SAT (old grading system). I've heard OSU is very competitive for out-of-state applicants, and I imagine that out-of-country applicants are the same way if not worse. Either way, there are several universities in the US that are much more highly regarded and well-known for their aviation programs (North Dakota, Purdue, St. Louis University, Embry-Riddle [if you don't mind the company of men]).

That said, as someone who went to school for Aviation Management, I wouldn't do it again. I'd just go to a well-regarded school for business, and read aviation business books. I've found that not too many airlines really care about what you got your degree in -- as long as it's business-related and you are relatively informed.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1074 times:

True JCS, I agree....airlines really just want you to have a degree in whatever field you are wanting to get in with them. If it's marketing, then get a marketing degree, finance, then finance degree. Airlines are just like any other business and they will hire the most qualified candidate (that's IF they are hiring, and those management jobs are hard to come by, trust me I've applied and interviewed).

UAL


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1056 times:

This is getting much more productive than all that time I spent asking people left and right. I have no experience and no idea of what airlines require, so what you said is helping me out quite a bit.
I've applied to Purdue and they said they had no more room but kept my application for the next term. Thank you for all the names, I'll look at them, North Dakota seems to have a pretty serious Aviation program...
The truth about my situation is that I don't know if I'll succeed this academic year (the HEC has a policy to get rid of most of its freshmen, like out of 800 at the beginning of the year, only about 150-200 succeed...) so I'm really trying my best to keep some alternate options and going to the US would be great.
I do have another question: I've also been considering a commercial pilot career, what way would you recommend? I mean, like what would be the best way to earn one's ATPL?
I wouldn't go through a uni program like OSU's to become a pilot, I'd go directly to an airline's course, or do you see any problems with that?


User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1054 times:



Quoting Dambuster (Reply 11):
I've also been considering a commercial pilot career, what way would you recommend?

ERAU or join the Air Force and get your degree at the same time...or...Find and aviation school at a reputable University, earn your hours, follow their program, and they will get you on track for an airline position. But now isn't a good time to become and airline pilot.

UAL


User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1047 times:



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 10):
Airlines are just like any other business and they will hire the most qualified candidate (that's IF they are hiring, and those management jobs are hard to come by, trust me I've applied and interviewed).

Welcome to the club. I know of one guy who I graduated with in December who is working for an airline in management, with Delta. The other guy I know works for Northwest in an airport setting, but he was employed with them during school. Everyone else who had a background in aviation management, including myself, is doing something else because they can't get hired. I've been on a grand total of one interview with an airline since I've graduated. Interestingly, I had to pay for my $800 airfare to New York, and had one of the toughest interviews of my life. I didn't get the job, or my money back.

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 11):
I wouldn't go through a uni program like OSU's to become a pilot, I'd go directly to an airline's course, or do you see any problems with that?

I would certainly do the latter. Airlines in the US don't have full training programs that are subsidized by the airlines themselves, and I know in Europe that is a huge option. If someone else, like an airline or the military, is going to pay for your training -- do that instead. Another added hassle for a European of going to US for flight training is that you are licensed by the FAA.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineHomer71 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2241 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1031 times:



Quoting Pope (Reply 5):
Just one more example of how OSU sucks.

Great, you just offended the whole Buckeye nation...the proper way to say it is:

"Just one more example of how THE OSU sucks."



"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1019 times:



Quoting Dambuster (Thread starter):

I'm sorry to hear about your problem... as a resident of Ohio, i can tell you that OSU (even for us) is one of the hard school to get in to..

Check out Kent State University and Bowling Green State University. Both of them are in Ohio and they have respectable aviation mgt. programs.

I graduated from Kent State and i know a lot of people there... if you need more information, feel free to contact me.. í'll help you out...

Good Luck!

CO7e7


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1015 times:



Quoting Homer71 (Reply 14):
"Just one more example of how THE OSU sucks."

 rotfl 

What is the deal with "T-h-e Ohio State University"? Some kind of inferiority complex (I don't see Michigan pulling "THE University of Michigan"  duck .

Lincoln
(Yes I live in Ohio... In fact one of my clients is closely related to THE OSU...but as a native Californian, I'm still an outsider -- don't really fall into the "Buckeye" fanaticasism, but definately am not a Michigan fan (although UMich is also closely related to a client) .)



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 976 times:

Thank you CO7e7, I'll consider them as well, anyway I'll be applying to a few unis for next fall, so these suggestions are really helping me out.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 13):
Welcome to the club. I know of one guy who I graduated with in December who is working for an airline in management, with Delta. The other guy I know works for Northwest in an airport setting, but he was employed with them during school. Everyone else who had a background in aviation management, including myself, is doing something else because they can't get hired. I've been on a grand total of one interview with an airline since I've graduated. Interestingly, I had to pay for my $800 airfare to New York, and had one of the toughest interviews of my life. I didn't get the job, or my money back.

This is quite discouraging... If job offers are so rare, then I better study something else, it's easy to change now, as I'm only starting out. Do you honestly think a major in Aviation Management would not guarantee me a job with an airline? I'm not only looking at US airlines, I could work for any other airline in the world, wouldn't matter...


User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 968 times:



Quoting Dambuster (Reply 17):
Do you honestly think a major in Aviation Management would not guarantee me a job with an airline?

No degree guarantees you a job. But that degree, not at all. And the thing is, when you start to look at other jobs, they are going to wonder why you aren't in aviation. Most "other people" don't understand the airline business.

UAL


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 961 times:

Oh dear  Sad  down   pessimist  I'll really have to think about it... Are you sure this is not a US-only problem?

User currently offlineDc-9-10 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 584 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 952 times:



Quoting Dambuster (Reply 8):
I've thought about it, but budget is a problem... My ACT is only average? Wasn't what the results were saying...

It is average for the student profile of OSU, not average as a whole. Also remember that the ACT is taken by a good majority of students in the middle part of the USA, I have even heard that some states require each student to take it. The sheer numbers means that even if you are in the 90th percentile, that is still a good number of students who are in the same position as you. I got a 28 myself and found that I was able to get into many good private and public upper midwest universities and many of them offering scholarships. That is the nature of university admissions, you just never know.


User currently offlineKhelmDTW From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 948 times:

Well you could always try Western Michigan University. I'm going there, and they are easier to get into than OSU. I was able to get in with a 3.0 GPA, and 22 on my ACT, and a letter BEGGING them to accept me. We also fly all new Cirrus SR22's, and at a measly anticipated cost of $120,000 for 5 years, its dirt cheap!  


If you do ever come up here, just watch out. The wind is quite strong since OSU Sucks and Blows   

Go Blue (and Brown and Gold, but mostly Blue)

Oh, I forgot to mention, WMU has agreements with several airlines where they will hire grad's with less hours if the graduate from WMU. Could help get your foot in the door.

[Edited 2008-08-03 10:42:03]


In Thrust We Trust
User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 990 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 922 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 16):
What is the deal with "T-h-e Ohio State University"? Some kind of inferiority complex (I don't see Michigan pulling "THE University of Michigan" duck .

Ohio State is THE state university of Ohio. Get it now? So think of it like The Ohio State's University.

They are just telling you who the university belongs to.

Also OSU has become very difficult to get into over the past 10 years. If you really want to get in try applying to one of the schools many satellite campuses, study at them for a year then transfer in.



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 914 times:

That's what my mom suggested... how does that work? How hard are they to get in?

User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21505 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 899 times:



Quoting Dambuster (Reply 11):
North Dakota seems to have a pretty serious Aviation program...

If you want to be a pilot, yes. If you're into management there are better programs elsewhere.

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 11):
I wouldn't go through a uni program like OSU's to become a pilot, I'd go directly to an airline's course, or do you see any problems with that?

US airlines don't have courses, so a lot of people here to go university programs. There are some good ones, but I would stay away from the US pilot market right now - it's not pretty, and it's probably going to stay that way for a while. Finish your university wherever you do, and then look at a European airline's training program. Find out before you start what they want to see, and tailor your university education to match (if they want good math and science - and they will - take some good courses in those disciplines).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
25 Dambuster : What if I wanted to attend a US university but not necessarily an aviation program? Like just management and business administration. What universitie
26 Aeroflot777 : Dambuster, did you get my PM? Aeroflot777
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