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Jose Medellin Set To Die In Texas  
User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 38
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2700 times:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5922356.html

Quote:
"Texas. It's like a whole other country."

Coined to promote tourism, that wry verbal wink at the state's mythic image has assumed a literal meaning as Texas finds itself in defiance of the United Nations, the Organization of American States and national leaders in its planned Tuesday execution of Mexican citizen Jose Medellin.

Unless the U.S. Supreme Court or Gov. Rick Perry acts in his favor, Medellin, 33, will die for the 1993 rape-strangulation of two teenage Houston girls, Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Peña.

Jennifer's father, Randy Ertman, dismissed international opposition to the execution.

"It's just a last-ditch effort to keep the scumbag breathing," Ertman said. "He never should have been breathing in the first place. I don't care, I really don't care what anyone thinks about this except Texas. I love Texas. Texas is in my blood."

I really hope this guy gets the needle, and soon. I tend to believe the officials that this man never informed them of his citizenship. Routinely, legal, or in this case illegal, Mexican murder suspects flee Texas and go south of the border. If they are ever caught by an inept and corrupt police force in Mexico, the Mexicans will not turn the suspect over unless a guarantee is made that the state will not sentence the person to death. I know some will say that this sets a dangerous precedent, and could make Americans who get in trouble in Mexico in a tougher situation. Bullshit, the Mexican government is saber-rattling, and they know that one highly-publicized case against an American where they were not given the right to speak to a consular official would decrease tourism drastically. In a way, it would be like what the Natalee Holloway case did to Aruba.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2677 times:
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Good for Texas. I hope this piece of shit suffers all along the road to hell.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2663 times:

As much as I loathe the death penalty, the UN, the OAS, Mexico-no one-has any right to interfere with the laws as prescribed in Texas. I don't think they'd think too higly of Texas trying to interfere in their business-I damn well know they don't like the U.S. putting pressure on them.

And, reading what these guys did to those two young girls, if there ever was a candidate for the death sentence in a state that has that sentence, it's this guy.

No one in this country should have any sympathy for him. And it has nothing to do with his nationality or status.


User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2632 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
As much as I loathe the death penalty, the UN, the OAS, Mexico-no one-has any right to interfere with the laws as prescribed in Texas. I don't think they'd think too higly of Texas trying to interfere in their business-I damn well know they don't like the U.S. putting pressure on them.

Yet we were the first ones to use the Vienna Convention in an effort to release US citizens arrested in Iran. We also used the language of the Vienna Convention against Guatemala to help free U.S. prisoners, and we require the Mexican government to notify the U.S. Consulate when one of our nationals is arrested in Mexico so that, if requested, a consular official may assist the national. I dunno...just seems kind of hypocritical for us to keep throwing the treaty in the faces of other nations while refusing to honor it ourselves.

Also, here is a common flawed perception of what the International Court of Justice ruling said. The ruling did not say that the United States should commute all the sentences of the 51 individuals named in the Avena decision. Although Mexico asked for all 51 nationals to be released on their own recognizance back to Mexico, all the ICJ ruling said was that the United States should examine these 51 cases to see if notifying a consular official would actually change the outcome of either the case or the penalty phase of the trial. This could have been done easily and for relatively little money. Had we done this, we would have complied with the ICJ decision and the criminals would all still, at the very least, be in jail for the rest of their lives in the United States. There would have been no extradition to foreign countries and the criminals would not be out on our streets.

In this case, I believe that Jose Ernesto Medellin was in fact prejudiced when Texas officials did not follow protocol set by the DOJ, FBI, IRS, and State Department concerning the arrest of foreign nationals. This prejudice would not have affected the guilt phase but could have affected the penalty phase. While I agree that if there was ever a candidate for the death penalty this guy fits the bill to a T, the arresting officers and the lower courts screwed the pooch on how to ensure that Medellin had access to all the legal assistance to which he was entitled. The court should have applied the standard stated in State v. Torres and commuted Medellin's sentence to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2631 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
No one in this country should have any sympathy for him. And it has nothing to do with his nationality or status.

I for one have absolute no sympathy for the POS. However, I'm concerned with the notion that a treaty obligation of the US is being ignored by a state. As an American who frequently travels abroad I would hope that the treaty protections the US has negotiated are respected by other countries if I ever needed them.

While I understand what the SCOTUS was saying when it ruled the way it did, I think Texas is establishing a really crappy precedent that will one day bite someone in the ass. Finally, I don't understand why Congress just doesn't pass legislation giving the federal courts power over this matter and thereby fully resolve the issue.

At the end of the day, this is the right result accomplished by the wrong method.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17497 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2602 times:



Quoting Pope (Reply 4):
While I understand what the SCOTUS was saying when it ruled the way it did, I think Texas is establishing a really crappy precedent that will one day bite someone in the ass

 checkmark  Same reason I was never a fan of Guantanamo



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1656 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2571 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
As much as I loathe the death penalty, the UN, the OAS, Mexico-no one-has any right to interfere with the laws as prescribed in Texas.

It goes both ways then. The US, UN, Europe, etc. don't have any right to interfere with any country's stablished laws.

Though Texan said it better than myself.

Quoting Texan (Reply 3):
Yet we were the first ones to use the Vienna Convention in an effort to release US citizens arrested in Iran. We also used the language of the Vienna Convention against Guatemala to help free U.S. prisoners, and we require the Mexican government to notify the U.S. Consulate when one of our nationals is arrested in Mexico so that, if requested, a consular official may assist the national. I dunno...just seems kind of hypocritical for us to keep throwing the treaty in the faces of other nations while refusing to honor it ourselves.

 checkmark 


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

The United States is, in its purest of definitions, a Federal Republic, where its constituant states can enact their laws, while at the same time, respecting certain laws that are valid throughout the Union (aka Federal Law). If the United States says that its constituant states can decide on whether to apply the death penalty or not, so be it.

Anyone who rapes girls should be executed, they deserve no less. Just too bad they don't have the chair anymore. That being said, if there is a violation of international treaty, which would apply throughout the Union, with regards to this particular execution, then it has to be looked at, but this has to be an internal state and/or federal issue, without the interference from the outside, which means a stay of execution should be declared for as long as the issue about the validity of said treaty is unclear.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4327 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2540 times:



Quoting Pope (Reply 4):
However, I'm concerned with the notion that a treaty obligation of the US is being ignored by a state.

Let's get something straight here (and, respectfully, this is not intended as a jab to you personally, Pope): The treaty "violation" that everyone is up in arms about is a mere technicality; a ruse that is being used by those opposed to the death penalty. Does anyone really believe this scumbag didn't get a fair trial or that he is innocent? Does anyone REALLY believe that had he had access to his consular counsel at the time of his arrest that the outcome would have been any different?



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2516 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
Does anyone REALLY believe that had he had access to his consular counsel at the time of his arrest that the outcome would have been any different?

As I stated before, he would have been convicted or plead out, no doubt. The question is about the penalty phase. Mexico is strongly against the death penalty and has established a program called the Mexican Capital Legal Assistance Project (MCLAP) to assist their nationals who face crimes that could potentially be capital crimes. Through the stats provided to me by their director, they have around an 80% success rate in pleading out potential death penalty cases to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. That is the main goal of the organization and of the Mexican department of state (not sure of the official name of the department). Had Mexican consular officials become involved, they would have pushed both the State of Texas and Medellin to plead out to two counts of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. This would have been acceptable to Mexico, whose citizen we are about to execute, and would have served the needs of justice for this country.

Read the State v. Torres decision I mentioned earlier...I'll try to find the correct cite for it. It is an case from Oklahoma in which the appellant, in terms of how the consular contact process played out, is very similar to Medellin.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4327 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2496 times:



Quoting Texan (Reply 9):
they have around an 80% success rate in pleading out potential death penalty cases to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. That is the main goal of the organization and of the Mexican department of state (not sure of the official name of the department).



Quoting Texan (Reply 9):
Had Mexican consular officials become involved, they would have pushed both the State of Texas and Medellin to plead out to two counts of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

I have no reason to doubt the success rate of the organization you quote. However, I'm not sure that success rate would have translated into a life sentence for this guy. The crime was so heinous and the evidence so overwhelming there was no compelling reason on the part of the State of Texas to "plea bargain" this into a life sentence.

But I have a related question for you: Do you know when Mexico became aware of the plight of this criminal? Was it before his sentence or only afterwards? I don't know for certain, and I could be wrong, but I suspect it was during his trial given its high-profile nature. And if it was before or during his trial, or even prior to sentencing, I'd like to know why this organization didn't become involved at that point.

Quoting Texan (Reply 9):
This would have been acceptable to Mexico, whose citizen we are about to execute, and would have served the needs of justice for this country.

Respectfully, we're talking about the citizens of the State of Texas and their right to live under the law as they see fit, not what would have been acceptable to Mexico nor what would be acceptable to our own Department of State. I'm not sure having a foreign country trying to influence the outcome of a judicial process here serves any justice. The justice, as proscribed by the State of Texas, is to follow its rule of law and see to it that the will of the people is met. In this case, that means carrying out the sentence for which the people of the State of Texas have deemed appropriate for such a crime.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2463 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 10):
Do you know when Mexico became aware of the plight of this criminal? Was it before his sentence or only afterwards? I don't know for certain, and I could be wrong, but I suspect it was during his trial given its high-profile nature. And if it was before or during his trial, or even prior to sentencing, I'd like to know why this organization didn't become involved at that point.

Medellin was arrested, charged, tried, and convicted in 1994. Mexico found out about Medellin's arrest in September 1997, six weeks after Medellin's first appeal to the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals denied Medellin's appeal. See Medellín v. Dretke, 125 S.Ct. at 2097, part of Justice O'Connor's dissent, which lays out that Medellin informed both arresting officers and people in the court that he was a Mexican national and the details of how Mexico came to find out Medellin was imprisoned (Medellin wrote a letter to the Mexican government in 1997 -- Texas never informed Mexico that one of its citizens was even on trial, much less imprisoned).

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 10):
Respectfully, we're talking about the citizens of the State of Texas and their right to live under the law as they see fit, not what would have been acceptable to Mexico nor what would be acceptable to our own Department of State. I'm not sure having a foreign country trying to influence the outcome of a judicial process here serves any justice.

However, we were signatories to both The Vienna Convention and Optional Protocol. These treaties bind us to the decisions of the International Court of Justice. There is well established precedent that the individual states cannot break treaty obligations entered into by the Federal Government. If we were to allow this, we would have absolutely no treaties since states would be able to break the treaties whenever they felt like it.

Moreover, President Bush issued a directive to then Attorney General Gonzalez telling him that the United States would abide by the ICJ's ruling! So, Texas thumbed its nose not only at an international treaty but also the will and directive of our President.

Furthermore, when the Supreme Court interprets a treaty, it must look first to the actual language; then to drafting history and original intent of the treaty; and then the understanding of the treaty by fellow signatory nations. The actual language of the treaty is a bit ambiguous as to whether the treaty is self-executing or not (one of Justice Roberts' main points in his argument from the cursory read I've had of the SC opinion). However, the original intent and understanding of the treaty by other nations is completely unambiguous: the treaty is self executing and creates individual rights.

Finally, the Department of State, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Department of Justice mandate that foreign nationals must be notified of their right to talk with a consular official from that individual's country within a specified amount of time (36 hours). The Department of State also says that the Vienna Convention obligations are binding on all federal, state, and local officials. So Texas once again thumbed its nose at the federal government on an issue of international treaty obligations.

Ok, so that wasn't really finally. We also demand strict compliance with the Vienna Convention from other nations (specifically, we have either brought to court or threatened to bring to court over noncompliance Iran, Syria, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and China at the very least. Which brings me back to the point in my original post that it is extremely hypocritical of the United States to demand other nations comply with a treaty that we are a part of but refuse to respect the treaty when it comes to their citizens within our borders.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2434 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
Let's get something straight here (and, respectfully, this is not intended as a jab to you personally, Pope): The treaty "violation" that everyone is up in arms about is a mere technicality; a ruse that is being used by those opposed to the death penalty. Does anyone really believe this scumbag didn't get a fair trial or that he is innocent? Does anyone REALLY believe that had he had access to his consular counsel at the time of his arrest that the outcome would have been any different?

I agree that this guy isn't innocent. But treaties are about technicalities. Without technicalities the treaty wouldn't have any teeth. In any case, Congress could solve this problem if they wanted to. Let's see if Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid do something.


User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

The execution time of 1800CST has come and went with out Medellin's execution happening. Looks as though the Supreme Court has stepped in.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5924476.html



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26488 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2345 times:



Quoting Pope (Reply 4):
Finally, I don't understand why Congress just doesn't pass legislation giving the federal courts power over this matter and thereby fully resolve the issue.

That too would create a messy precedent, given the clear right of states to run the vast majority of the criminal justice system in this country.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4327 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2331 times:



Quoting Texan (Reply 11):
Medellin was arrested, charged, tried, and convicted in 1994. Mexico found out about Medellin's arrest in September 1997, six weeks after Medellin's first appeal to the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals denied Medellin's appeal.

Just curious, but what took so long for this criminal's flag of origin to get involved? I mean, he was in a "foreign" country from his perspective. His lawyers knew his country of citizenship. And I'm assuming so did the courts since on all the paperwork that is filled out and the endless questions asked on them at the time of arrest, the most basic is "Place of Birth" and "Citizenship". I mean, if I were in a "foreign" country and got arrested, the first thing I would do is try and contact the nearest embassy or consulate. I realize this criminal had been in the U.S. for years, but that is no excuse in my opinion. Ignorance of the law never stands in the way of the pursuit of justice.

Quoting Texan (Reply 11):
There is well established precedent that the individual states cannot break treaty obligations entered into by the Federal Government. If we were to allow this, we would have absolutely no treaties since states would be able to break the treaties whenever they felt like it.

So why hasn't the Federal Government stepped in?

Quoting Texan (Reply 11):
specifically, we have either brought to court or threatened to bring to court over noncompliance Iran, Syria, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and China at the very least. Which brings me back to the point in my original post that it is extremely hypocritical of the United States

With all due respect, please don't put us in the same judicial arena as those nations. Besides, it doesn't matter how perfect we are, or close to perfection we might strive to get, those nations and others like them will never accept the validity of anything we do.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Finally, I don't understand why Congress just doesn't pass legislation giving the federal courts power over this matter and thereby fully resolve the issue.

That too would create a messy precedent,

It would create the kind of mess that occurred when Congress stepped in to that right-to-die issue with that comatose woman in Florida back in 2005 (I forget her name).



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2326 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 15):
So why hasn't the Federal Government stepped in?

They tried. They were amicus curiae in the case. The Supreme Court ruled against them.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 15):
With all due respect, please don't put us in the same judicial arena as those nations. Besides, it doesn't matter how perfect we are, or close to perfection we might strive to get, those nations and others like them will never accept the validity of anything we do.

So because we threatened those nations because they didn't notify the American Consulate within 24 hours (while we allow 36 hours) while we fail to notify nations that we arrest their citizens (see also cases involving Polish and German citizens...I'll look up the case names later) we aren't doing the same thing they are? Interesting...

Look, the fact remains that we were signatures to the treaty (as were they). We (and the other nations mentioned previously) broke the treaty. So how are we so different in this regard?

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4327 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2316 times:



Quoting Texan (Reply 16):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 15):
So why hasn't the Federal Government stepped in?

They tried. They were amicus curiae in the case. The Supreme Court ruled against them.

So if the Supremes ruled against the Feds, then Texas has every right to execute this guy, right? Isn't that what the Supreme Court's ruling means? I mean, what or who exactly is the final arbiter of the validity of this argument? Please don't tell me some foreign court is.

Quoting Texan (Reply 16):
So because we threatened those nations because they didn't notify the American Consulate within 24 hours (while we allow 36 hours) while we fail to notify nations that we arrest their citizens (see also cases involving Polish and German citizens...I'll look up the case names later) we aren't doing the same thing they are?

Are we talking about U.S. citizens that were picked up, charged, and convicted with overwhelming evidence for brutally raping and murdering young girls or are we talking U.S. citizens who were picked up for some other type of crime or purported offense? And since we're on this particular topic, let me ask you this: how sympathetic do you think our government or our own citizens would be if a U.S. citizen was arrested, charged, and convicted because of overwhelming evidence, in another country for brutally raping and murdering two young teenage girls? Protocol and treaties aside, I don't think there is much that we would do, certainly not with the vehemence that some of these foreign courts and governments are doing to save this scumbag's life.

Finally, no one, not even his own flag, is claiming his innocence. All of his supporters are simply pointing to a technicality - the treaty - in order to spare his life and give him life without parole. The argument is over his sentence, not his guilt.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26488 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2315 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 15):

It would create the kind of mess that occurred when Congress stepped in to that right-to-die issue with that comatose woman in Florida back in 2005 (I forget her name).

Terry Schiavo, and don't misunderstand what I wrote. To pass some weird law extending federal jurisdiction over the Texas criminal law portion of this case would be ridiculous. On the other hand, treaties supersede any and all state laws in the constitutional hierarchy.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21625 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2282 times:



Quoting Pope (Reply 4):
I for one have absolute no sympathy for the POS. However, I'm concerned with the notion that a treaty obligation of the US is being ignored by a state. As an American who frequently travels abroad I would hope that the treaty protections the US has negotiated are respected by other countries if I ever needed them.

 checkmark 

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
Does anyone really believe this scumbag didn't get a fair trial or that he is innocent? Does anyone REALLY believe that had he had access to his consular counsel at the time of his arrest that the outcome would have been any different?

No to both questions, but that's not the point. Now that Texas has decided it doesn't have to follow internationally established protocols, it sets the precedent that other governments (either national or state) can do the same should a US citizen be arrested for a crime in that country. That US citizen could well be guilty, but if they were innocent and denied the protections that the treaty provides, it would be a serious problem (and the US government would rightly be having a fit about it).

Treaties are all about reciprocity, and I agree with Pope that this may come back to bite the US. I will not miss this guy one bit, but proper protocol should have been followed. And when Texas didn't want to follow proper protocol, the federal government should have stepped in and forced them to. Like you said, it wouldn't have changed the outcome, but it would have made it legally legitimate.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFlyingClrs727 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2274 times:



Quoting Texan (Reply 3):
Yet we were the first ones to use the Vienna Convention in an effort to release US citizens arrested in Iran. We also used the language of the Vienna Convention against Guatemala to help free U.S. prisoners, and we require the Mexican government to notify the U.S. Consulate when one of our nationals is arrested in Mexico so that, if requested, a consular official may assist the national. I dunno...just seems kind of hypocritical for us to keep throwing the treaty in the faces of other nations while refusing to honor it ourselves.

No one ever denied these criminals the opportunity to contact their embassy or consolate or for the consolate to contact the criminals. Neither they nor their lawyers ever asked for the assistance of the Mexican consolate. This only became an issue years later after they were tried, convicted, and sentenced to death. Only years later during the automatic death penalty appeal, did they ever bring up this issue. Furthermore how is one supposed to know that a defendant is a Mexican citizen or other foreign national rather than an American citizen if the defendant does not volunteer the information? There are lots of people in Texas and other southwestern states who speak Spanish better than English. A large proportion of them are US citizens. There are even some localities that prohibit the police from calling the ICE to find out the immigration status of people who are arrested in order to prevent illegal aliens from being deported.


User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

It's all moot now he was executed at 9:57PM Tuesday night..I hope this POS burns in hell. He got off too easy..

[Edited 2008-08-05 22:40:31]


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineFlyingClrs727 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2249 times:

Quoting Texan (Reply 9):
Mexico is strongly against the death penalty

Oh that's really been such a benefit to Mexico hasn't it? Every day there are more stories in the newspapers about Mexican policemen, judges, and politicians at every level of jurisdiction being murdered by the drug cartels. The death penalty exists in Mexico, but it's the criminals who use it. The federal, state, and local governements in Mexico are unable to fight the drug cartels, because they lack any penalty that has any meaning to the cartel members. They are much more afraid of other cartels than the police.

[Edited 2008-08-05 22:56:12]

User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Isn't it funny how the world is outraged at this scumbag being executed and yet the victims receive no attention. I for one have had enough of Mexico and the world dictating to US how to conduct business. Mexico has it's laws as does the rest of the world but somehow they all seem fit to interfere with our laws...You kill and torture and rape little girls in TX you DIE plain and simple.. F##K the rest of world.I wish all states handled things like TX and FL do. This punk got off too easy as it is.. All these scumbags think they did nothing more than a high school prank.. The ring leader Peter Cantu has a blog looking for friends in Europe..LOL..He knows he has no friends here. He will find some saps who will fight for him feeling sorry for him..I wish I could sign up to kill the bastard I would pay for the opportunity.


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4532 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2207 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
As much as I loathe the death penalty, the UN, the OAS, Mexico-no one-has any right to interfere with the laws as prescribed in Texas.

I hope you might consider revising this statement after Texan's knowledgeable and well written arguments.

Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 23):
Isn't it funny how the world is outraged at this scumbag being executed and yet the victims receive no attention.

As much as I abhor the death sentence, it did strike me - well actually my mouth dropped open - that even on the Dutch news the perpetrator got all of the coverage with no attention for the victims and their families. A sorry very state of affairs.

Robert



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
25 Agill : Indeed, after reading what he and his friends did I have trouble getting upset about him getting put down, even if i can agree with some of the criti
26 FXramper : One way ticket to the Eternal Lake of Fire!
27 MaverickM11 : I don't think anyone is upset about him being executed--they're just concerned that this sets a bad precedent, for when, say, a Texan is in Indonesia
28 FlyingClrs727 : For one thing, none of the criminals sentenced to death that the Mexican government is upset about were denied access to their country's consolate. T
29 Connies4ever : I accidentally posted this in the "Man too fat to execute" thread this AM -- I blame not enough coffee. So FWIW here it is: ~~~~~~~~~ A bigger issue i
30 N1120A : What in the world are you talking about? This is about a treaty, which supersedes all state laws.
31 Stratosphere : Well screw the treaty.. I know this will play out somewhere that some US citizen will have a small amount of pot and will be on death row and we will
32 N1120A : I suppose you will say "screw the Constitution" next?
33 Stratosphere : I might..I don't agree with everything
34 Post contains links MaverickM11 : Mexicans don't even care apparently, because of the crime problem, ironically Crime-weary Mexico barely focuses on US execution http://ap.google.com/a
35 N1120A : That is frightening
36 Luv2fly : Once again the victim or in this case the families get overlooked and pushed aside all for tv ratings.
37 RobertNL070 : Well actually, it was on Dutch public radio, hence my jaw dropping. I've hardly watched tv these last few years.
38 DfwRevolution : Well you should, because your post is riddled with misunderstanding about the United States. Someone does have the final say. That institution is the
39 DfwRevolution : No, they don't. Treaties are not binding domestic law unless either Congress passes laws proscribing their enforcement or the treaty is interpreted t
40 Connies4ever : Please explain. I understand that the SCOTUS has the last word on anything (as does ours here) but I cannot understand a system in which a treaty sig
41 DfwRevolution : The federal government has sovereign immunity and cannot be sued unless it consents to being sued. The State of Delaware simply has no jurisdiction t
42 Connies4ever : Not actually what I meant. At the fed level the gov't can undertake to comply, for example, with the Kyoto Accord (for argument's sake). Delaware mig
43 Baroque : Might it be better for the mouse if it found itself sleeping with a donkey - figuratively that is?
44 RedFlyer : You don't want that to happen, figuratively speaking, do you, Baroque? You will lose all your reasons for posting on this forum. You'll have to find
45 Baroque : Maybe the Canadians will want to give it a try. Interesting creatures donkeys. Likely more intelligent than horses at least.
46 Connies4ever : Indeed they are, Alan. Moreso than elephants I think, and likely easier to sleep with ! Good to see you're not losing any edge.
47 Dougloid : Agreed. Extradition in the US is a mere formality. If someone decides they don't wanna go, then someone calls up the governor's office and gets a gov
48 Post contains links Baroque : Now we have allowed Connies4 to decide about the merits of donkeys, let me say that there are plenty of "Devils" in all countries to be railed at. A
49 Connies4ever : Not disagreeing the extradition is usually a formality, but the mere fact that it has to be applied for indicates that there is a requirement state-t
50 Dougloid : It's nonexistent. In my county we actually had a full on extradition hearing one time, seems that a woman was arrested and it turned out she was on t
51 RedFlyer : Your energetic enthusiasm would do far more good if you focused it on your own backyard. Spouting off in this forum against all the evils of The Grea
52 Connies4ever : Came across this via Google (that most powerful research tool )... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Illinois Compiled Statutes CRIMINAL PROCEDURE (725 ILCS 225/) U
53 Baroque : WADR I think you are suffering from a touch of the Britneys* Redflyer. You demand to be taken notice of and then when the comments are not 100% favou
54 HuskyAviation : It doesn't do you much good to let a bitter old fart get under your skin.
55 Dougloid : On behalf of all the bitter old farts of the world I must lodge my protest, not that I think it'll do any good god damn yez whippersnappers You're ki
56 RedFlyer : That is your perception, my friend. Again, your perception. I never said that. All I was saying is that you should focus some of that excess exuberan
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