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John Hoffmeister Ex Pres. Of Shell On Glenn Beck..  
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4515 times:

The interview can be heard on Glenn Beck's site, http://www.glennbeck.com/ one has to register to hear it and I don't feel like it right now

Anyone watched it last night?


1-Hoffmeister said is a myth that we are running out oil.

2-Oil prices are a mindset and it's all psychological

3-The threats of legal action by environmentalist groups who have been blocking the drilling even in waters offshore from ANWAR and the voting power of representatives from two states (or something like that) is really hurting regular americans. So, it basically means the will of a few is being imposed on the majority.


I'm no expert here and without knowing much about #3, i had already concluded long before that the first two make a lot of sense. Flame on.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4496 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Thread starter):
1-Hoffmeister said is a myth that we are running out oil.

It is not a myth, however, that worldwide demand has increased dramatically within the past decade. That's going to drive prices up even if we keep putting out the same amount of oil. It is also not a myth that the devaluation of the dollar has helped prices increase.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Thread starter):
3-The threats of legal action by environmentalist groups who have been blocking the drilling even in waters offshore from ANWAR and the voting power of representatives from two states (or something like that) is really hurting regular americans.

The insistence on maintaining an addiction to oil is also really hurting regular Americans. The way things are now, you're seeing a lot of growth in the development of alternative fuels. Lower gas prices are going to slow that growth or even suspend it, and then what will we do when prices go up again (which they will)?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5136 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4474 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
It is not a myth, however, that worldwide demand has increased dramatically within the past decade. That's going to drive prices up even if we keep putting out the same amount of oil. It is also not a myth that the devaluation of the dollar has helped prices increase.

It is also not a myth that production has increased at a rate equal to or greater than that of demand over the last decade, and therefore there is no supply/demand based argument for the increase in the cost of oil.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4464 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Thread starter):
3-The threats of legal action by environmentalist groups who have been blocking the drilling even in waters offshore from ANWAR and the voting power of representatives from two states (or something like that) is really hurting regular americans. So, it basically means the will of a few is being imposed on the majority.

He is absolutely correct.

Most of those reps voting against common sense tend to be from the north east which large populations that live in major cities that don't actually have to produce anything to survive, they just get it from the store.

ANCflyer and myself have both put up threads about ANWR. Drilling it would not cause a major problem, all the support infrastructure is already existant in PBU, the area that would be drilled is estimated at 2k acres in an area the size of France.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJ_Hallgren From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4443 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 3):
the area that would be drilled is estimated at 2k acres in an area the size of France.

I've heard it compared to the size of an average airport in the state of South Carolina...good luck on finding it even from the air and even if that's the only thing around...like a needle in a haystack.

My new theory why people think it's such a big thing is that people don't realize just how big Alaska is (I've never been there but...) due to how many maps of USA are printed...they have AK reduced in size to fit and thus people think it's a lot smaller and that 2K areas is more significant.

A computation I did was that 2K acres in ANWR is like a 4"x4" patch on a 1 acre lot...not much at all!



COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4442 times:



Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 4):
My new theory why people think it's such a big thing is that people don't realize just how big Alaska is (I've never been there but...) due to how many maps of USA are printed...they have AK reduced in size to fit and thus people think it's a lot smaller and that 2K areas is more significant.

A computation I did was that 2K acres in ANWR is like a 4"x4" patch on a 1 acre lot...not much at all!

I think you are right on the money on that one.

Also I think a lot of people when they think of oil drilling picture something out of the movie, "Hellfighters" or the intro to the second Bronsan bond flick.

It isn't that way.

Right now they are working on the liberty project off the north coast of Alaska. The plan is to drill 6-8 miles out to sea from shore to reach the oil pocket.

So lets do a bit of math here 8 miles radius out from a rig, that means two rigs could be 16 miles apart.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4333 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 3):
Most of those reps voting against common sense tend to be from the north east which large populations that live in major cities that don't actually have to produce anything to survive, they just get it from the store.

makes good sense

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 4):
My new theory why people think it's such a big thing is that people don't realize just how big Alaska is

Alaska is about half the size of the continental United States, huge and it's coastline (w/out even counting the Aleutian islands) just from looking at the map is about as long as both western and eastern mainland coasts combined.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):

The insistence on maintaining an addiction to oil is also really hurting regular Americans.

When I hear that it just sounds silly to me. What addiction to oil? There's nothing right now that can substitute oil and the world needs oil just as much as the US does. Green tech won't start to partially replace oil in areas where it can be implemented until about 10 years from now. What do we do in the meantime? Watch the economy keep crumbling while we decide what's the best green tech and get the technology running?

There's no logical argument, NONE for not drilling. Prices of oil which as Hoffmeister said are just a mindset and drilling will quickly lower oil prices. Not doing such is just selfish. It's not the "American addiction for oil" but more like "the American selfishness of not wanting to use their own resources"

Hoffmeister, as the ex-president of Shell, and a man still connected with the oil industry is a pretty credible source. As he said, there's plenty of oil reserves. The perceived supply imbalance aka "we're running out of oil" scenario that leads to speculative prices should quickly be corrected if we start drilling.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
The way things are now, you're seeing a lot of growth in the development of alternative fuels. Lower gas prices are going to slow that growth or even suspend it, and then what will we do when prices go up again (which they will)?

I'm seeing it, too bad alternative fuels won't be replacing oil anytime soon. On the other hand the US needs to stop making excuses and learn from Spain and even almost polar Sweden in their use of solar tech. Not sure what the excuse is for vast areas of unused land that have zero natural beauty in Florida not being planed with sugar cane which by the way is better than corn for biofuel. And why the heavy Tariff on ethanol from Brazil?

It all comes down to legal bs, and campaign contribution money from large companies to politicians and their excuse to keep questioning profitability to convince the public why they don't do anything. Enact a law to eliminate contributions from these companies if you have to. If this govt. spends so much money in Iraq and bailing out the bloated Fannie and Freddie Macs it should also help with the costs of drilling on its own soil, create alternative fuels, etc. The economy will continue to be crap if they don't focus on smart energy policy first.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4302 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
What addiction to oil?

The addiction that keeps us on oil and nothing else. There's no reason that we couldn't have been developing better energy sources by now, but we just love oil. It's easy, it's cheap, etc. And now that love for oil has gotten us into a bind, far enough for us to realize that we start doing something about using alternative fuels. Make oil cheap again and we're going to fall back into the same pattern and just be sitting ducks for the next price hike.

I don't mind drilling, but it has to be mainly as a way to get us off of foreign oil sources and not as a way of producing cheaper oil.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
Hoffmeister, as the ex-president of Shell, and a man still connected with the oil industry is a pretty credible source.

A pretty biased source as well. I'm sure he knows a lot about the industry, but he did work for the oil companies. So take his comments with a grain of salt.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

The facts of life:

1. The world, even in terms of increasing demand, has 300-500 years of oil remaining... including growth trends.

2. There is absolutely no correlation between the use of fossil fuels and global temperatures.

3. Replacements for fossil fuels in most applications are horrifically inefficient and end up expending more oil than they end up "replacing."



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4296 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
Hoffmeister, as the ex-president of Shell, and a man still connected with the oil industry is a pretty credible source.

A pretty biased source as well. I'm sure he knows a lot about the industry, but he did work for the oil companies. So take his comments with a grain of salt.

Why? He is speaking about the industry. That makes him an expert not biased.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4286 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Why? He is speaking about the industry. That makes him an expert not biased.

He's both. He's an ex-CEO. He still has connections to the industry. He's not exactly a disinterested observer.

I'm not saying he's lying, but I wouldn't take his word as gospel.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4280 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
A pretty biased source as well. I'm sure he knows a lot about the industry, but he did work for the oil companies. So take his comments with a grain of salt.

If he was so biased in favor of the oil companies why would he say things like: we're not running out of oil, and that if one day we start seeing less oil is not because it's scarce, but because we're not using it


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4271 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 11):


Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
A pretty biased source as well. I'm sure he knows a lot about the industry, but he did work for the oil companies. So take his comments with a grain of salt.

If he was so biased in favor of the oil companies why would he say things like: we're not running out of oil, and that if one day we start seeing less oil is not because it's scarce, but because we're not using it

I have to agree with Miami on this one. If anything he would have an interest in increasing the perception of scarcity as that would help drive up prices a la the diamond industry.


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6148 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4155 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
When I hear that it just sounds silly to me. What addiction to oil?

The addiction refers to the fact that we are incapable as a nation of reducing our wasteful consumption of oil that is causing our nation economic and geo-strategic harm.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
Green tech won't start to partially replace oil in areas where it can be implemented until about 10 years from now.

That is not true... "green" approaches could be started immediately and have a major impact within 5 years.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
What do we do in the meantime?

The quickest thing we do is improve our energy efficiency... it costs nothing in many cases or the investment payback in very quick other cases.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
There's no logical argument, NONE for not drilling. Prices of oil which as Hoffmeister said are just a mindset and drilling will quickly lower oil prices. Not doing such is just selfish. It's not the "American addiction for oil" but more like "the American selfishness of not wanting to use their own resources"

That is a totally biased opinion... that is utter BS. The oil from drilling would not have ANY affect for at least 10 YEARS!

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
And why the heavy Tariff on ethanol from Brazil?

You answer it below!

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
It all comes down to legal bs, and campaign contribution money from large companies to politicians and their excuse to keep questioning profitability to convince the public why they don't do anything.

Just follow the money...

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Why? He is speaking about the industry. That makes him an expert not biased.

No it doesn't... it makes him extremely biased! Guess how much Shell stock he has?

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 12):
I have to agree with Miami on this one. If anything he would have an interest in increasing the perception of scarcity as that would help drive up prices a la the diamond industry.

No he doesn't... he wants to be able to access "cheap" oil to refine and sell!! Why do you think Shell stock took such a hit in 2004 (and the Chairman of the core oil and gas division had to resign)?? Hint: Shell didn't have as much oil and gas in the ground as they claimed... only 10 years vs the 14 they had booked.

Bottom line... the ONLY people that will profit from drilling in Alaska are the oil companies... consumers will not benefit ONE bit within at least 10 years... and even then, OPEC can negate the marginal saving at the pump (less than 0.04 cents/gal potential saving!)



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4095 times:



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 13):
That is a totally biased opinion... that is utter BS. The oil from drilling would not have ANY affect for at least 10 YEARS!

But the fact we would be drilling it would lower the price, and that's not "BS". BS is the market raising the price of oil because minimal-tropical-cyclone Fey was heading straight for the gulf and therefore "going to impact" oil production, therefore oil price went up that day. THAT truly is BS. Even more BS is when the track prediction was totally wrong and the storm didn't even head for the gulf.

1970 we only imported about 30% of oil, 1991 41% and now 70 PERCENT!!!!!!!

(don't quote me on those numbers but that's what I remember). You get the idea.

I'm all for green technology and yes probably in 5 years the US could accomplish a reduction in oil dependency if it really wanted to. But with all the red tape, lack of common sense, and stupidty we're seeing, we need to drill, ASAP


User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4093 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
Lower gas prices are going to slow that growth or even suspend it, and then what will we do when prices go up again (which they will)?

I doubt it... I think $4+ gas that we had this summer will be etched in most peoples minds for a long time.



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4081 times:

IMHO we really find that oil companies and car companies are to blame for our current gas woes... but politicians and activist groups will never pass blame to where it really deserves to be... with the American people. For decades we have lived in absolute decadence with cheap gas prices so that we can chug along in our hummers in the fast lanes on our 30 mile commutes to work from suburbia. I really don't blame car companies to sell cars that we wanted... BIG cars. And I really don't blame gas companies in ripping us off BIG TIME. We live in a nation of free enterprise and consumer driven companies are only going to do what the market demands in the name of profits... and if that means V8 trucks for single city slickers and a total about face on alternative fuels, then no amount of whining from eco groups or half assed legislation from our two face politicians is ever going to change that. And don't get me started on our national legislators... they'd jump on any bandwagon for a vote... promising the world and delivering disappointment and betrayal in abundance.

The only way companies are going to make smaller, fuel efficient cars or break the bank to research alternative fuels is if we make it worth their while as consumers. If we collectively go to our neighborhood car dealers looking for Prius's, Aveo's, Jetta's and the like, instead of Escalades, Hummers and V8 sedans we will drive the market towards conservation. If we drive less by making more efficient shopping trips, taking public transit, etc. we can also drive the price of gas to the floor and save money for ourselves.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4065 times:



Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 16):
The only way companies are going to make smaller, fuel efficient cars or break the bank to research alternative fuels is if we make it worth their while as consumers. If we collectively go to our neighborhood car dealers looking for Prius's, Aveo's, Jetta's and the like, instead of Escalades, Hummers and V8 sedans we will drive the market towards conservation. If we drive less by making more efficient shopping trips, taking public transit, etc. we can also drive the price of gas to the floor and save money for ourselves.

We are seeing more and more of this everyday... It will be intresting to see how people will react when oil drops back down to where it should be.



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
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