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Should The US Take Out Russia Military  
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .


Scary times people , what is going to happen .


You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
157 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAviationMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6486 times:

Me thinks the US should first clean up the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan before even considering taking out the Russian Military.  Wink

As a reminder, Cold War I was not won by taking out the Soviet's military.


User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6473 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
AGM100

After the US military performance in Iraq I would not be betting on them taking out the Russians by a long shot. A attack on Russia will pretty much mean the end of USA.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6477 times:

eh? you're kidding, right?

I can tell you one f***ing good argument against it: the Russians have enough nuclear power to bomb the world back into the times when only bacteria and nothing else lived on earth... and I'm quite sure they would use it if attacked... so unless you are a member of the Aum sect you shouldn't even consider this an option!



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6470 times:



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 3):
A attack on Russia will pretty much mean the end of USA.

more likely an end of the world as we know it...



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6463 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

Outstanding.

This one will be good.



User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4905 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6416 times:

PLEASE for the love of god tell me this thread is a joke... PLEASE?!?

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6418 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

Do you have some hard data or is this just wishful thinking? Nobody ever told you that underestimating the enemy is a stupid and dangerous thing to do?

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

Russia is not even afraid of a hot war. They have enough manpower, lots of material and they wouldn't hesitate to use it for a fraction of second.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

More like collate the rest of the world against the USA

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

You perhaps didn't get the memo, but Russia is growing stronger and stronger for at least 5 years now. And Russia was never so weak that it could be considered an easy target.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .

Never. Be ready, but don't start it.

Summary: Attack Russia - extremely bad idea. Forget it.


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6413 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

Are you joking? I'm not trying to be a jerk or insult you. It just seems that your grasp on reality and the threats of other countries might be strained. Take a deep breath.

They (Russia) have enough military might to destroy the earth, just like we do. War with them is not an option. Furthermore, does it really seem necessary anyway?


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4634 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

I think the OP has been reading too many Tom Clancy novels...


Word
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6367 times:



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 3):
After the US military performance in Iraq I would not be betting on them taking out the Russians by a long shot. A attack on Russia will pretty much mean the end of USA.

The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.

Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

And they will go nuclear. They have a ton of warheads. Or they will pay us back by supplying Iran with anything they want, missiles, new airplanes, you name it.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

And convince the rest of the world we are truly insane

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

They have some serious economic problems at home. For all their bluster their Military machine is in need of dire repair.

15% inflation, slowing GDP growth, contraction of population, and falling oil prices are far more important to Russia than wasting money on another Cold War, money that can rebuild their country.

Putin for all his so called evil reputation is not stupid. Why would he piss away 8 yrs of progress and his near godlike stature in Russia to start an unwinnable war?

The Russians are not stupid. This is just bluster on their part and it will end with Georgia. The Russians have a country to run, and spending away what treasure they've regained is just foolish


User currently offlineWestJetForLife From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6362 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

I really hope you're either A: drunk or B: just being stupid after reading "Red Storm Rising" one too many times.

In todays world, as I have said NUMEROUS times before on this forum, attacking Russia would be like setting fire to a hornet's nest. If you succeed in doing so without getting stung 100 times by the little bastards, they'll still come after you with everything they got.

PS: if we ever DO get into a shooting match with Russia, this is what will most likely happen:




I need a drink.
User currently offlineJM017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6327 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

So you're suggesting an attack on Russia? They cannot FIND, much less beat Mullah Omar in Afghanistan (the Taleban are on the rise again) and you're suggesting an attack on Russia?

Right now, the US couldn't successfully take on Vatican City much less Russia. They are spread thin. They may be the most powerful country in the world, but their power has limits. And they have reached it. Even if they weren't spread thin, an attack on Russia would be foolish and, as others have said above, would result in MAD: mutually assured destruction. Russia may not be what it was, but there is an old saying that goes: Russia is never as strong as she looks. Russia is never as weak as she looks.



"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6313 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .


Scary times people , what is going to happen

Don't be so fu**ing stupid


User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4128 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6293 times:

Are you kidding?

H.E.L.L. NO



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6270 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .


Scary times people , what is going to happen .

What the f**k did you eat for dinner?


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6912 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6233 times:



Quoting Aero145 (Reply 17):

What the f**k did you eat for dinner?

Stupid pills, hehe...


Seriously, a mod should lockthis thread up before it gets out of hand. Whoops, too late.

For real though. Posterity shall remember the lunacy of this one.


User currently offlineOlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6230 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

Dude, those thoughts are insane. Just forget it. Russian military doctrine explicitly says that in case Russia can't protect itself with conventional weaponry it will not hesitate to launch an all out nuclear attack.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26709 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6222 times:

Ever hear of the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction? It is alive and well and we would end up seeing life as we know it end.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):

The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.

Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

You appear blind.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6211 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
You appear blind.

No its more ego blindness brought about by frinking too much kool aid.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13703 posts, RR: 61
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6197 times:
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Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

 redflag 

Can you explain how "hit (Russia) now" and "strategic" belong in the same sentence?!?

Sorry friend, but you're WAY off base on thinking this is even remotely close to being a good idea.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6202 times:



Quoting JM017 (Reply 14):
So you're suggesting an attack on Russia?

Not suggesting just discussing .... jeeezus . You act like I have the red phone in my bathroom ....no dont do it AGM !


I can tell you that the topic is being discussed but since name calling is better suited on here..... It is just a matter of time anyway I beleive the train has left the station. Their will be a military confrontation between us and the Russians . Its now or its with your children. Their is no way superpowers can maintain the brinkmanship we once had in this day and age. Their are too many fragments of power around the world to go to bi polar existence again. Their will be a odd man out and he will have nukes .



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6194 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .

What the hell have you been smoking, and where can I get some?

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

Korea and Vietnam mentallity and thinking all over again. It was a stupid idea then, and it's the same stupid idea now



Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6191 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .

Why the hell would you want WWIII to start now? Attacking Russia now is suicide.

Let's stick to the same rules of engagement that got us through over 50 years of Cold War: Don't fire until fired upon!


User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6227 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):

The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.

Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

You appear blind.

Did you even read the rest of my post saying how stupid of an idea it would be to attack Russia? Don't twist the facts like you do elsewhere.

Find me one analyst who says the Russian military readiness is high and to that level of the old Soviet forces and capable of defeating the USA in open ground.

Neither military is in good shape, but the Russian one is in worse shape.

Quoting Don81603 (Reply 24):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

Korea and Vietnam mentallity and thinking all over again. It was a stupid idea then, and it's the same stupid idea now

Did you read my post? I agree with you and do not advocate war.

I was responding to this:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 3):
After the US military performance in Iraq I would not be betting on them taking out the Russians by a long shot. A attack on Russia will pretty much mean the end of USA.

The US hasn't been beaten militarily in Iraq, it has been defeated politically. You can spin that as much as you like, but ask Mutaqda Al Sadr how well Americans fight.

The original poster commented that Russia will want to destroy us. Russia is too rational and more focused on rebuilding their country than starting another Cold War

[Edited 2008-08-15 15:32:43]

25 StuckInCA : I'm not one to believe that the state of the world and politics is healthy right now, but you are seriously way too down on the situation. Have you b
26 Scotty : The soon to be former Defence Minister of Georgia
27 Janmnastami : If you want to make a nuclear war between the USA and Russia, please don't bomb Italy . A nuclear war, oh my god, we would come back to the Flinstones
28 N1120A : You really think it would be tanks and foot soldiers? Hell no. It would be nuclear weapons and we would all die. Anyway, you really think the Russian
29 Sv7887 : Ummmm ask the Russian Colonels flying a TU-22M that got shot down what they think of your statement...Why 50 yr old Colonels were flying a combat sor
30 Sv7887 : Is there a single model of a new Russian aircraft, tank, or submarine that has been mass produced recently that is actually competitive with American
31 PPVRA : How in the world will something like this change the Russian mindset? Putin has an 80% approval rate. You won't be greeted by cheering Russian citize
32 MaidensGator : And so you're proposing that we go back to the Cold War era, only worse. I think your ideas are worse than your spelling... The State of Georgia coul
33 Sv7887 : That raises a good point: How has this skirmish in Georgia affected his popularity? Are Russians backing him? Btw, I think this makes the farce of Me
34 NoUFO : There is absolutely nothing to discuss, other than perhaps the level of stupidity it takes to even think of "taking out Russia's military". The world
35 MD11Engineer : Also, if the US would ever invade Russia, I think it would immediately lead to a guerilla war, same as the Russians carried out very successfully aga
36 Scotty : Leson one - nobody ever defeated Russia by military means and nobody ever will. Fact. Get used to it USA
37 MaidensGator : Actually, Georgia is 1/200 the size of Russia in land area, and 1/35 the size in population. You make it sound like the USA wants to defeat Russia by
38 StuckInCA : I take offense. The OP hardly represents the whole USA. exactly.
39 PPVRA : We Report, You Decide?
40 Elite : Einstein already said.... "I do not know what weapons WW III will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones". There will be no m
41 Derico : Well if so then I guess the northern hemisphere would be off-limits for about 700 to 1500 years....
42 Radarbeam : Somewhere a toolbox lost one of it's tool...[Edited 2008-08-15 22:37:45]
43 Confuscius : Go get 'em! [Edited 2008-08-15 23:49:28]
44 Stratosphere : Should The US Take Out Russia Military? Alright I will run with the OP's post...Bush as already underestimated the Iraq war I think this dumbass thoug
45 BigTom : How about taking out China and India too while you are about it, may as well clear the table completely while you're doing it? They will be threats to
46 GDB : One thing Putin did do, in his time as President, was get the Strategic Forces back to a better standard, operationally, targeting and training wise.
47 Post contains links and images Beaucaire : Please meet Nils Olav who received Norwegian knighthood Nils Olav already has medals for good conduct and long service. He made honorary colonel-in-ch
48 Scotty : None intended. In this context "USA" means specifically the current administration. Clearly the population of the USA, based on what I have seen in t
49 Post contains links GDB : Writer Paul Kennedy, has this to say on the implications of this conflict; http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/16/russia.georgia
50 JM017 : Fair enough. Your first word was Arguments. Man was the response strong. Russia will grow stronger and there isn't much that can be done short of a G
51 AGM100 : It may get complicated when Putin gives the OK to Iran on Nukes,,,, since we have boxed ourselves in on Iran. Putin will surely use Iran to antagoniz
52 MadameConcorde : Scary times because of whom? Who is sending that mega-armada in the Persian Gulf? Who is it that wants to attack Iran when Iran has attacked no one?
53 AviationMaster : Know you really think that the USA is the bigger risk than countries like Russia or Iran?
54 StarAC17 : I agree right now but they are spread too thin right now fighting in both Iraq in Afghanistan, if this was Russia's strategy then it is a brilliant o
55 TAZA : Aside from being a totally stupid idea it is also not necessary. This country is deep in the process of destroying itself internally and has been doin
56 AGM100 : Can not say that I disagree with this ... good points all of them. And so then Russia is free to manipulate and threaten its way back into control of
57 Dreadnought : While I hope that the initial question was a bit tongue in cheek, I can understand the question. Wars havse started in the past for a lot less. Putin
58 HAWK21M : Someones still dreaming about hollywood films.....This is real life...... The Russians have the capability to destroy the world,as do a few other nati
59 Scotty : Spoken like a true imperialist I assume you are voicing an opinion and not a belief?
60 SlamClick : Ain't gonna happen. Next. Actually that is the one argument in favor. "Nuclear winter" would offset global warming and we'd end up with a really nice
61 Post contains links GDB : While the operation against Georgia, a small, rather militarily feeble state, was only going to go one way, have you seen the Russians on the news, in
62 Baroque : Alas it seems the cross over between hemispheres is a bit more than was thought when Shute wrote "On the Beach". So IIRC we will be in the soup rathe
63 Phoenix9 : New Mastercard commercial: Drugs: $50 Renting Red Dawn: $5 Being Stupid: $0 AGM100 being flamed by the A.net collective: PRICELESS One Earth sized pa
64 AGM100 : I agree GDB , but growing a economy requires interaction with foreign investors . At this point the economy is owned by the government .. and control
65 BlackProjects : Attacking Russia will lead to the US and Russia Completing the MAD Equation resulting in Both Nations Vanishing off the face of this planet MAD = Mutu
66 HAWK21M : & a much smaller population The US are already in problems with involvement with Iraq & Afghanistan to think of a third one. regds MEL
67 Post contains links MadameConcorde : There is no need to ask. It's already happening: China to overtake US as largest manufacturer By Peter Marsh in London Published: August 10 2008 22:3
68 AGM100 : He he ,, well it was on my mind and it never hurts to discuss it I guess. Some on hear of course over react , and take the opportunity to inflate the
69 Post contains links MaidensGator : All is not utopian in China.... 10,000 factories have already gone bust this year in one province, with the number expected to rise to 30,000... http
70 Starlionblue : I don't see it. If we go back to a cold war scenario the world will be pretty much as complex as before. Ok, a few more countries have nukes, and Eur
71 SlamClick : That is the other argument in favor. That I would probably not be part of that populaton is a good argument against for you and me and just about eve
72 Dreadnought : Of course it is opinion, which I believe is backed up by historical fact. Spoken like someone who needs to pick up a dictionary and read the definiti
73 GDB : While there is a high degree of government influence in major strategic industries in Russia, I really see no correlation with the USSR here, where in
74 AGM100 : I have heard it described as a crime syndicate. Putin and his group have many "companies" who work in between the government and industries. Putin hi
75 Starlionblue : Heck, you could describe Japan and Korea like that to a certain extent. Industry controls government.
76 BlackProjects : After the Olympics buble is over watch what happens to China"s Bubling Economy, As it is going to hit the Buffers as most of the Company"s who have be
77 Scotty : "Imperialist - the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and
78 Dreadnought : So what does that have to do with military efficiency? We were talking about how to end a war quickly. Widespread and violent leads to a rapid conclu
79 Planemaker : You are truly over your head on this topic. You obviously have not read anything nor listened to any of the Defense Department Congressional briefing
80 MaidensGator : While I certainly don't agree with anything AGM has posted thus far in this thread, you have to take Defense Department Congressional briefings with
81 GDB : The issue, with the US DoD is not the materials available, it's that in this situation, there is no sensible way, militarily, they could intervene in
82 Planemaker : Yes, of course the Pentagon wants every dollar they can their hands on (even when they can't account for billions they have already "spent"...) but t
83 Dreadnought : Not really. If Saddam were still in power, the sanctions by now would have been lifted, and he would have been enjoying sanction-free $115/barrel pri
84 A342 : Not really. First, it was Saddam who kept Al Qaeda out of Iraq. Second, he was a counterweight to Iran, his traditional enemy. And third, spare us wi
85 Planemaker : Thanks to A342 for pointing out the hollowness of your post. It is truly a bit sad that you can claim that we gained something... when we have gained
86 Dreadnought : Since when was Al Qaeda our only terrorist enemy? Terrorism has been a growing problem since the 70s, while Al Qaeda only popped up in the 90s. So tw
87 Planemaker : Al Qaeda is the ONLY terrorist group that has has attacked and killed Americans in the US... and has been the most active against American interests
88 Post contains links Czbbflier : If this post is related to the conflict in Georgia, I suggest that everybody, especially the OP to stop and take a deep breath. In my opinion, as one
89 MD-90 : Now that is an American statement right there. My ______ can kick your ______'s ass, but man I admire that sheer size/beauty/majesty/speed of ______.
90 GDB : There is another limit to US power, in a large, prolonged, but conventional weapons only conflict. (If this would ever be possible in the case of Russ
91 Post contains links Planemaker : Here is the link to the CSpan interview... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w75ctsv2oPU
92 Dreadnought : That quote is indeed telling. Between 1991 and 2003, something changed. In 1991, we all believed that Saddam was finished, that he would likely be ov
93 Planemaker : Ya... things did change. Dick went to work at Halliburton until Bush asked him to be his running mate and Halliburton paid Dick a $34-million "retire
94 Flighty : I hope you aren't saying the above points justified an invasion of Iraq and execution of its leaders by the United States? .... and countless civilia
95 GDB : Even did Georgia had been successful in it's NATO application a few months ago, I've a feeling that Russia would never have allowed it. That is, this
96 StasisLAX : Putin is an ex-KGB spymaster, and a robber-baron billionaire Stalinist thug in my opinion. He's thoroughly oppressive and corrupt - as are many peopl
97 PPVRA : Looks like change only happened in some people's mind, because what Cheney said then is right on the money to what is happening now since 2003. The m
98 Baroque : Thousands of dead Iraqis is a bit on the conservative side???!!!! And always, the 2 million external refugees and about 2 million internal refugees.
99 Starlionblue : You have it right that one has to wait a long time for results. This is my main gripe with the aftermath of the Iraq War. Why is the US in such a hur
100 Solnabo : I would love to write him a letter saying: Enough Bush Stop using Europe as a playground for your sick wargames He´ll be gone soon and vote for Barac
101 Baroque : Wow, count down the minutes to one furious response - although I have to say he has been quiet of late. How did you know we have trouble with itinera
102 Mortyman : ) Wich is no worse than the heavely backed Israeli war machine by the USA. Your point ? Man, that's naive... Democracy is not something you can force
103 Sv7887 : The same guy who advocates attacking Pakistan without their permission? Good luck considering Musharaff is on his way out... Let's face it, neither M
104 Planemaker : That is right, Russia does not want to risk their economic health... and that is why they took action against Georgia. Russia does not want to pursue
105 StarAC17 : As much as me as well as most of the International community wants him elected I don't think he will be because the American people will not be willi
106 Planemaker : Yes, he's far more pragmatic and less of an idealogue than Bush... but right now he still has to pander to the Republican base for election support..
107 StarAC17 : While I think he will win this election as of right now, the fact that he is pandering to the far right is what what will make a good portion of mode
108 RJ100 : I think you all eat this soup a bit too hot. Russia is not going to attack anyone and they are no danger for anyone. Russia has a lot of own problems
109 Post contains images Dreadnought : Jeezus, RJ... This has been going on just to the south of you.
110 RJ100 : There is however a difference between attacking peaceful countries such as Estonia, Latvia or Ukraine and the conflict in South Ossetia that was star
111 Flighty : A friend of mine who just got his PhD in history (Modern Eastern Europe) assured me that the Georgians were actually way faulty and to blame for this
112 RJ100 : To fight back mafia is alright. But then Georgia needs to build up infrastrucure there. You cannot leave the people with no work and infrastructure a
113 Starlionblue : Thank you. But it's hardly rocket science. The most cursory knowledge of history coupled with a little basic analysis leads me to this obvious conclu
114 Flighty : I suppose you would say the same about Russia's enforcements in Chechnya right? Here in the USA we have quite a lot of sympathy for federal crackdown
115 Post contains links StasisLAX : Not the glorification of Russia, but the leverage of Russia. Putin dream is control of the natural gas and oil flowing from the former Soviet republi
116 Baroque : Interesting post and nice to see it from a different side of what has become a multisided fence - new invention!! I do especially like your version o
117 Alias1024 :
118 RJ100 : The situation in Chechnya is a bit different although the Russian behaviour there was certainly not correct in my opinion. In Chechnya, Dagestan and
119 AGM100 : [ Many good points made on this thread , I have enjoyed reading all the comments (mostly). I may say the comment above is the best IMO. Sadly history
120 Wardialer : I think first of all our current job IS NOT complete...And thats catching BIn Laden who murdered 3000 innocent people...I mean come on...What did Russ
121 PNQIAD : Is this Dick Cheney in disguise on A.net?
122 Flighty : Job 1 is always keeping peace with Russia and China. A world where Al Qaeda is our only real problem is a happy, happy world. Al Qaeda isn't anything
123 Starlionblue : Islamist terrorists are an infinitesimal threat compared to what Russia and China have the potential to be. As Flighty says, the cold war was quite a
124 F9Animal : Russia is no laughing matter, and certainly not a country to "go after". It would certainly create WWIII, and it would be one huge mistake. I think we
125 Baroque : Nah. Dickless will get arrested before he gets to Russia for war crimes so he would never be wanting to try to get there.
126 Braybuddy : I don't think it's that scary at all. Just a little regional matter which will fizzle out over time. While Russia did seem to be keen to provoke Saak
127 Dreadnought : So does this mean it would be OK to help out the Chechens (if we were interested to)?
128 Flighty : And what about the Tibetans? Perhaps a new Al Qaeda state formed in Pakistan?
129 Braybuddy : I'm not advocating anything. I was just pointing out that we can't really complain if South Ossetia and Abkhazia want to secede, when we've already g
130 Dreadnought : I find it funny how I hear this argument (and the one comparing Georgia to Iraq) from the same people who accuse conservatives of seeing the world in
131 Braybuddy : Maybe I should have worded it better. Like I said, I'm not advocating anything: but if the Russians want to see it as a black and white situation we
132 PilotNTrng : When the hell did Canada become Pro-Russia?
133 Czbbflier : Where is this coming from? My post from earlier (Reply 88)?
134 Baroque : Or maybe it was already clear to those who expect nuanced contributions and are in more difficulty when confronted with B&W images that discard most
135 Scotty : You got it. The west and the US in particular have to start understanding that unlike in Kosovo there is near unanimty in Abkhazia and South Ossetia
136 L410Turbolet : And you gained that "wisdom" from your Russian girl??? The fact that Russia has plenty of its own problems obviously doesn't prevent them in engaging
137 OlegShv : Chances are slim to nothing, unless Estonia and Latvia will start shelling Russian citizens with MLRS.
138 Scotty : Is Misha Saakashvilli now in Estonia????
139 Beaucaire : Some interesting opinion from a man who has clearly a very qualified background.. "....The former head of the planning staff at the German Defense Min
140 Baroque : Roll on the end of January 2009 - I hope!
141 MD11Engineer : Onwe thing some people seem to misunderstand is that NATO is a defense pact against current agression and not some means to get revenge for wrongs in
142 JAL : The US would be crazy to think they can take out the Russian Military without taking heavy casualties plus this is an election year! In any case any W
143 Sbworcs : And you are sure of this how? No one can know with certainty what will happen in the futre APART from the fact that any war with Russia will mean the
144 LH648 : And who is more aggressive? Russia, responding to murder of it's peacekeeping forces, or topicstarter, calling to fight against Russia? Just imagine t
145 Keesje : seem like good old fifties cold war thoughts, but people were less informed then.. I think people in different parts of the world see the performance
146 QXatFAT : I dont think you know just how stupid Putin can be. The man wants total power of not just Russia but the old "Mother Land" and would love to be the "
147 11Bravo : ... speaking of things bi-polar
148 OlegShv : You must be hearing voices, just like Dubya...
149 Baroque : That would be on a good day. At least, Oleg, we can be grateful that whatever is in the water is not in everyone's water over there. When on earth ha
150 Dreadnought : Actually: Perhaps not all unilateral, but some of the above (like slowing development - the one area that has given us an advantage over the past 50
151 Baroque : It is exactly NOT unilateral disarmament. I rest my case. But I do want to ask what exactly is the advantage the US has had in nuclear weapons ever s
152 Dreadnought : Don't. He will unilaterally reduce our capabilities involving new technologies. While not disarmement per se, don't forget that we are not the only o
153 Mandala499 : Well, AGM100 is a missile, so is a Penguin... Status of tanker fleet? Overstretched? No, they respond to it by opening a new Bentley shop in Moscow o
154 LOT767-300ER : Only an American would actually believe that they have any sort of chance of defeating Russia.
155 Dreadnought : I'm sure they do, at least for now. Let's assume Russia invades Poland, and NATO is obligated to respond. The American (and western European) technol
156 HAWK21M : I guess if the Impossible does occur.....Then China would be the winner regds MEL
157 Post contains links Baroque : To which one can now add only an American would think of having their war in Poland! So how bad were they when some of your senior folk advocated usi
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