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Global Cooling - Arctic Ice Levels Increase  
User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5157 posts, RR: 33
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

The ice coverage in the arctic is up 30% compared to this time last year, despite predictions that the arctic could be ice free this summer due to global warming.

If it continues to increase at this rate we could be facing a new ice age within the next 5 years. God help us all! Get your SUVs back out and set the coal fires to the third bar!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_mystery/


That'll teach you
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9058 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2565 times:
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Quoting Nighthawk (Thread starter):
ice age within the next 5 years.

Wow, already in 5 years... that's so soon  Wink So what is true now? Will I die from the heat or from the cold?

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

You have it wrong!

Global Warming is the cause of this increase in arctic ice!

Next year it will be so hot that we will all be covered in arctic ice!

It's the end of civilization as we know it, all because our consumption taxes are too low!


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2552 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 1):
So what is true now? Will I die from the heat or from the cold?

Well there might be some doubt as to whether the heat or cold will get you ,but you can rest assured you will die, so don't worry about it too much and instead be happy  Big grin

littlevc10


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

The explanation is obvious: It is "Nuclear Fall" in anticipation of the global thermonuclear war and subsequent nuclear winter that is sure to come very soon, starting with either Iran or the new USSR.


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9058 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2545 times:
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Quoting VC10 (Reply 3):

Well there might be some doubt as to whether the heat or cold will get you ,but you can rest assured you will die, so don't worry about it too much and instead be happy Big grin

Alrighty...  bigthumbsup  CARPE DIEM Big grin  rotfl 

Who knows when and how I will die... Maybe today, maybe tomorrow, maybe in 30 years...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5628 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2536 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 5):
Who knows when and how I will die... Maybe today, maybe tomorrow, maybe in 30 years...

But if you could see how you would die, would you want to?  scratchchin   scared 

As to global cooling/warming.... uhhhhh I just don't know. Maybe I'll freeze to death while being comfortably warm.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2533 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 1):
So what is true now? Will I die from the heat or from the cold?

The rapid alternating between hot and cold will cause most of us to shatter into a thousand pieces. The best solution is to get fat.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
Global Warming is the cause of this increase in arctic ice!

 checkmark  There will be some such "explanation".


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9058 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2513 times:
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Quoting Tugger (Reply 6):
But if you could see how you would die, would you want to? scratchchin scared

Nope, I don't want to know when and how I will die...

Quoting David L (Reply 7):
The rapid alternating between hot and cold will cause most of us to shatter into a thousand pieces. The best solution is to get fat.

Shatter into thousand pieces? sounds scary...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5157 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2512 times:

I love the following bit:

Quote:

We know that Arctic summer ice extent is largely determined by variable oceanic and atmospheric currents such as the Arctic Oscillation. NASA claimed last summer that "not all the large changes seen in Arctic climate in recent years are a result of long-term trends associated with global warming". The media tendency to knee-jerkingly blame everything on "global warming" makes for an easy story - but it is not based on solid science.

Now isnt this the whole argument for global warming? Dont all the models show that the raise in CO2 emmissions cause an increase in temperature and a melting of the ice caps? Kinda blows all the models out of the water then does it not?



That'll teach you
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2511 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 8):
Shatter into thousand pieces? sounds scary...

Don't worry about it - after you've shattered into a thousand pieces, you won't care.  Smile


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9058 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2509 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting David L (Reply 10):
Don't worry about it - after you've shattered into a thousand pieces, you won't care. Smile

An excellent point you have here  Wink Never actually thought about how it would be to shatter into thousand pieces... but it would be a mess to collect all these pieces Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2536 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2406 times:



Quoting Tugger (Reply 6):
But if you could see how you would die, would you want to?

Depends - does getting to know allow me to prevent it from happening? If so, then heck yeah. If not, then no......

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 9):
Now isnt this the whole argument for global warming? Dont all the models show that the raise in CO2 emmissions cause an increase in temperature and a melting of the ice caps? Kinda blows all the models out of the water then does it not?

I'm confused - it's given me a headache  confused   headache 


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2403 times:



Quoting Nighthawk (Thread starter):
If it continues to increase at this rate we could be facing a new ice age within the next 5 years

Damn...does this mean the good looking chicks won't be on the beach in Kiev?


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6201 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2340 times:



Quoting Nighthawk (Thread starter):
The ice coverage in the arctic is up 30% compared to this time last year, despite predictions that the arctic could be ice free this summer due to global warming.

Just FYI, the article is from The Register... not a science site but a site mainly dealing with software/hardware/music news and opinions with a lot of satire and sarcasm. And, in case you didn't notice, the article is poorly written.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5157 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2335 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 13):
Damn...does this mean the good looking chicks won't be on the beach in Kiev?

Unfortunately that may well be the case. It also means that property I bought 30 miles inland at bargain prices wont quite raise in value and have a sea view like I expected. Sunbathing? I think snowboarding is going to be more like it  Sad

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 14):

Just FYI, the article is from The Register... not a science site but a site mainly dealing with software/hardware/music news and opinions with a lot of satire and sarcasm. And, in case you didn't notice, the article is poorly written.

Im aware of the source of the article - im a frequent visitor of the site, however their journalism is going downhill rapidly at the moment. The source of the article is irrelevent, the facts are what matters, ice levels have increased 30% and NASA say that global warming does not have a significant effect on the ice caps. Thats all that matters, and not how poorly written the article is.



That'll teach you
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6201 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 15):
The source of the article is irrelevent, the facts are what matters, ice levels have increased 30% and NASA say that global warming does not have a significant effect on the ice caps. Thats all that matters, and not how poorly written the article is.

What facts??? There are no facts other than the author's junk misinformation.

The author is asserting that "ice levels" have increased by 30%... no one else! Please notice that there is NO quote from ANY source to back up the author's assertion... just typical poor journalistic inferences to "trick" the unthinking reader into believing the author's point of view.

A case in point is your statement above... "NASA say that global warming does not have a significant effect on the ice caps."

That is not what NASA says.... no where in the NASA article does it say that. If you go to the link the author provides (and he obviously doesn't think that you would use to verify his "fiction") you will see that what NASA actually says is...

"The results suggest not all the large changes seen in Arctic climate in recent years are a result of long-term trends associated with global warming."

And I actually went to the sites that the author claims to have got his information from and this is what is ACTUALLY said on the University of Illinois site...

"Sea ice extent averaged over the Northern Hemisphere has decreased correspondingly over the past 50 years (shown right). The largest change has been observed in the summer months with decreases exceeding 30%.

...

Recent observed surface air temperature changes over the Arctic region are the largest in the world. Winter (DJF) rates of warming exceed 4 degrees C. over portions of the Arctic land areas."


So yes, the source of the news is indeed VERY important... as is the ability to read critically is just as important!

[Edited 2008-08-19 02:57:00]


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineAverageUser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2297 times:



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 15):
the facts are what matters, ice levels have increased 30%

Could you then please point us to that 30% in this near real-time graph (1 day delayed) from the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center?

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_timeseries.png


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2228 times:



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 14):
And, in case you didn't notice, the article is poorly written.

As long as the sources are verifiable the way it is written is irrelevant to the discussion.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 17):
Could you then please point us to that 30% in this near real-time graph (1 day delayed) from the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center?

And of course almost immediately Global Warming dogmatists initiate rule number one.

1. Impugn, insult, agitate. In this case Impugn any information that disagrees with global warming dogma.

The story says that the graph is the source that is in error.

So how did NSIDC calculate a 10 per cent increase over 2007? Their graph appears to disagree with the maps by a factor of three (10 per cent vs. 30 per cent) - hardly a trivial discrepancy.


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6201 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2215 times:



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18):
As long as the sources are verifiable the way it is written is irrelevant to the discussion.

Nonsense. I can write in an article that aerodynamic lift on an airfoil is due exclusively to pressure under the the wing and quote NASA as my source. You can verify that NASA is my source... but the claim is still WRONG!

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 18):
And of course almost immediately Global Warming dogmatists initiate rule number one.

1. Impugn, insult, agitate. In this case Impugn any information that disagrees with global warming dogma.

That is what you are doing while I have actually gone to the sources and pointed out how the author invented his assertions. So instead of complaining about the article being shown to be a sham... if you really believe what the author wrote then try to provide links that back it up.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5157 posts, RR: 33
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2200 times:



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 16):
as is the ability to read critically is just as important!

As is the ability to detect humour in a post / thread. You appear to be missing the whole point of the thread.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 17):
Could you then please point us to that 30% in this near real-time graph (1 day delayed) from the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center?

The graph you posted clearly shows an increase in the levels of ice in the arctic. Whether its 10% or 30% the point is the same - ice levels are increasing, which goes against what every model has predicted. Ice free this summer? Hardly.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineFlexo From St. Helena, joined Mar 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2192 times:



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 17):

Could you then please point us to that 30% in this near real-time graph (1 day delayed) from the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center?

It is a little hard to extract exact numbers from the chart you posted but for the end of July it seems that it is showing an increase of about 25% (6.5 vs. 8 mil. sq. km).

Exact numbers would definitely be interesting!


User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2191 times:



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 20):
The graph you posted clearly shows an increase in the levels of ice in the arctic

Only from 2007 to 2008. I would say the relevant figure is the average of 1979-2000, and in this case, whatever the year, we are still below the average.
But even 1979-2000 is too short of an interval to determine global phenomena.

The interminable debates on global warming and global cooling and whichever it is are spurned by interest groups anyhow. It's turning us away from the real issues that have made us interested in global warming in the first place: can we not be more efficient in our energy usage? Can the planet sustain in an "orderly" fashion the 10 billion people we will be in the next 50 years?


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6201 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2176 times:



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 20):
As is the ability to detect humour in a post / thread. You appear to be missing the whole point of the thread.

I recognized those posting in jest... thus I haven't commented on their "jesting".

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 20):
The graph you posted clearly shows an increase in the levels of ice in the arctic. Whether its 10% or 30% the point is the same - ice levels are increasing, which goes against what every model has predicted. Ice free this summer? Hardly.

No... that is not true. If you go to the NISD web site (who produced the graph) you will see that they predicted (and hoped) that this years sea ice extent would be greater than last year's record low. No one said that the arctic would be ice free this summer!

Now, the predictions of increased sea ice extent than 2007 are not only reducing... they may go the other way...

The Arctic Ocean ice cover, which appeared earlier this summer to be headed for a moderate recovery after last year's record-setting retreat, has begun disintegrating so rapidly in recent weeks that experts now say the ice loss by mid-September could exceed even 2007's history-making meltdown.

The Canadian Ice Service is reporting an "unprecedented" opening of waters in the Beaufort Sea north of the Yukon-Alaska border, where expected increases in ship traffic have just prompted the U. S. Coast Guard to establish two new outposts on Alaska's north coast to strengthen its vessel-monitoring and search-and-rescue capabilities.


http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=714588



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

Here's another interesting article that I came across recently.

Global Warming, Global Myth

During the 20th century, the earth warmed 0.6 degree Celsius (1 degree Fahrenheit), but that warming has been wiped out in a single year with a drop of 0.63 degree C. (1.13 F.)


25 Post contains links Planemaker : Interesting? In what way? Because it is published by FORCES... FORCES is an acronym of Fight Ordinances and Restrictions to Control and Eliminate Smo
26 Post contains links RJdxer : But the source has to exist which in this case it wouldn't since that is not NASA's position. They have however staked out a position that not all se
27 PC12Fan : I'm dumping my Prius tomorrow!!!!
28 Post contains links and images AverageUser : I have trouble getting the 8 out of the chart above, to me it looks pretty close to 7,25. I borrowed my wife's measuring tape, and on my 12" screen t
29 Post contains links and images RJdxer : Good idea, the bottom is about to fall out of those things as gas prices have come down. http://www.dnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...cle?AID=/20080814/NEW
30 Flexo : Of course that is something to worry about. Still it is interesting that for this year we do see an increase in ice coverage compared to last year (b
31 PC12Fan : Yea, until the Iran thing kicks up again or , we get a Cat 3+ hurricane in the gulf, or Venezuela starts talking smack again, or, well, you get the i
32 Steeler83 : Preaching to the choir here. I'm calling shenanigans on that one after coming to this statement: Ok, I'll get my snow blower ready and trade in my Hy
33 Post contains links AverageUser : Melting Arctic sea ice is not a Japanese train, and we really need to wait until the mid-September before any conclusions, it will be interesting to
34 DocLightning : They aren't. Move along.
35 Scotty : Nighthawk can I borrow your umbrella please?
36 Post contains links ER757 : This story published today seems to refute the cooling story earlier. makes you wonder if we'll ever know who's right, or if there even is a definitiv
37 Flexo : The interesting thing about the article is that they are saying this year's ice level is the second lowest in history. Last year was the lowest, so t
38 Dreadnought : I heard someone say the other day how the recent evidence that 'Global Warming' has reversed itself was "due to the hard work and concrete results by
39 ER757 : No, it said the ice level is its lowest since 1979, not since 2007.
40 Nighthawk : So your saying in 1979 ice levels were even lower than they are now? Did the earth overheat, sea levels rise and the human population die during the
41 Post contains links TUNisia : OP... might want to read these links... http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iTiK9q_JNH0CVdHRLUva36wj1QQg http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...-mhR21
42 Post contains links Luckyone : Never mind the fact that as recently as the 1400's core samples have shown that Greenland had HALF as much ice as it did in the sixties????? Well bef
43 Post contains links Baroque : WADR Flexo, are you not misreading the legend? 2008 is the little blue line heading its way down awfully close to the dreaded 2007 line. It be not ev
44 Post contains links Planespotting : Hmmm ... a quick google news search shows the OP's original statement to be a bit misleading: From the USA Today: http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline
45 ER757 : No, I'm not saying it at all - the article says it! You didn't read it that way and I was pointing out what the article says. I'll be honest, I don't
46 Post contains links AverageUser : The Register journalist that provided the inspiration for this thread has now taken back what he wrote and is quoted as having said: "... it is clear
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