Andrej From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 812 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1739 times:
Interesting as FT had an article on Friday that this deal was not supported by four nations in the NSG. I was expecting little more resistance from those NSG nations (as suggested by the article) and it makes me wonder what they have been promised in return for favorable vote.
Hey nuclear energy is good and clean so it should help India and rest of the World. What happens to the India's military nuclear stock/program?
BTW last month's Bloomberg Magazine had interesting story about India and use of wind power. There are projects and developments that use more efficient and larger wind turbines that need lower wind speeds to produce the power energy. If everything goes as planed substantial power will be generated by wind in not that distant future (2015+).
So combination of nuclear and power energy should be seen as a good step to make the World little cleaner.
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1720 times:
Quoting Andrej (Reply 5): makes me wonder what they have been promised in return for favorable vote.
Greater access to the Indian market perhaps ? Nothing sinister about it. Money talks...
Quoting Andrej (Reply 5): What happens to the India's military nuclear stock/program?
The deal requires partitioning out of the military program into a separate ecosystem so that the civilian nuclear program is separate and safeguarded, enabling ease of verification and the ability on India's part to import and export nuclear components and technology for civilian use, under NSG guidelines.
Quoting Andrej (Reply 5):
BTW last month's Bloomberg Magazine had interesting story about India and use of wind power. There are projects and developments that use more efficient and larger wind turbines that need lower wind speeds to produce the power energy.
India already is among the world's biggest wind power producers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power
Country Megawatts
Germany 22247
USA 16818
Spain 15145
India 8000
China 6050
Denmark 3129
However, wind power cannot serve well for base load production due to its variable nature. Nuclear power is excellent for that purpose.
Andrej From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 812 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1700 times:
Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6): Greater access to the Indian market perhaps ? Nothing sinister about it. Money talks...
It is possible and most probably what happened, but US was the one pushing for the approval.
From NY Times:
The Bush administration had pressed N.S.G. members not to impose such restrictions on India. The exact terms of the agreement were unclear on Saturday night.
Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6): The deal requires partitioning out of the military program into a separate ecosystem so that the civilian nuclear program is separate and safeguarded, enabling ease of verification and the ability on India's part to import and export nuclear components and technology for civilian use, under NSG guidelines.
Thanks for the info.
Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6): However, wind power cannot serve well for base load production due to its variable nature. Nuclear power is excellent for that purpose.
I agree with you, hence I stated that combination of both will compliment each other quite well.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1687 times:
Quoting Andrej (Reply 5): it makes me wonder what they have been promised in return for favorable vote.
Yup that was one thing being considered......India was firm in not budging from its stated position.....Wonder what the USA offered the Four countries.
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1683 times:
Quoting Andrej (Reply 7): It is possible and most probably what happened, but US was the one pushing for the approval.
Yes, but it is ultimately about access to the Indian market. GE/Westinghouse want to sell reactors. So does Areva of France, Toshiba of Japan and Rosatom of Russia. On the other hand you have little countries like Austria and New Zealand that sell no nuclear technology but sit in the NSG and claim opposition to NSG-Indian trade. They are just sock puppets, and commercial benefits won out.China too opposed India at NSG because they claim 'sole leadership of Asia', and want to hamper us, but ultimately fell in because US+Russia+France+UK took on them.
It would be no surprise if representatives from the above (and other) companies have already flown to India over the weekend and have tomorrow (Monday) morning appointments with the Indian government to do business. They are most welcome. We have a fast growing economy and plenty of opportunities for them.
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1593 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11): When will the US Congress meet up to decide on passing this deal?
The deal was apparently tabled before the US Congress on Wednesday night, US time, i.e. a day ago. Bush is pushing for it to be approved before end of September, when the Congress goes into recess for the upcoming elections.
The sooner they can approve it, the sooner US companies can start dealing with India. In fact, it appears to be a two way trade from the outset, with the US wanting to import Indian heavy water.
The French, Russians and Britons have already started separate discussions to sign bilateral agreement for nuclear equipment trade. There's apparently a plan to open a tender for a total of 12 power reactors initially, the informal agreement being to split it between the Americans, the French and Russians, perhaps equally.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1581 times:
There are strong indications that the deal will go through this month,unless its US congress that has majority democrats support decides not to give GWB his biggest achievement in 5 yrs
regds
MEL
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1547 times:
Quoting BarfBag (Reply 13): The French, Russians and Britons have already started separate discussions to sign bilateral agreement for nuclear equipment trade
With the NSG clearence.......Can India sign a Nuclear deal with any country from the NSG.....or will another clearence need to be sought again?
regds
MEL.
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1521 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15): With the NSG clearence.......Can India sign a Nuclear deal with any country from the NSG.....or will another clearence need to be sought again?
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1493 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17): I heard Aus still insists on the NPT signing to trade uranium.whats with this government
It is their matter. If they can live with trading nuclear material with a maverick Russia and an assertive China, but not a rising democratic India, so be it.
The NPT 'P-5' is now a de facto P5+1, because the Indian nuclear weapons program is officially recognized and accomodated; other powers are now willing to do business regardless, and not avoid doing business because of it. That does not apply to any other NPT non-signatory, like the Israelis, Pakis etc. In other words, we are no longer one of the excluded list.
Australia, it seems, places more value on words on paper, than on reality. But we have other sources of Uranium, in addition to thousands of kilograms of enriched fuel built up over the years. Perhaps they will come around some day, but their stance isn't particularly bothersome from our perspective. It's their internal politics.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17): Wouldn't the PM be in US hoping to sign on the 26th....
Possibly. It's fairly obvious both Bush and Condoleeza Rice are pushing for the Congress to complete the process before Singh's arrival, rather than disappoint him (and their own business interests). In the case of the French, they pretty much have the paper and pen ready, so they are claimed as the first.
Quoting BarfBag (Reply 18): Possibly. It's fairly obvious both Bush and Condoleeza Rice are pushing for the Congress to complete the process before Singh's arrival, rather than disappoint him
Hopefully it would not be an Invitation & no signing.That would a bit of an embarrassment.
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1429 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20): Hopefully it would not be an Invitation & no signing.That would a bit of an embarrassment.
Interesting going ons in recent days - India announced plans to sign agreements with Russia and France, while the US issued assurances that their domestic vote would be completed by Sept.26th. The Prime Minister will travel to Paris after his trip to Washington, while the Russian foreign minister will visit Delhi on 20th, when a deal is expected to be donw with them: N-deal before September 26, assures Rice India set to sign nuclear deals with Russia, France
Right now, only the US has potential to lose anything. We no longer need to deal with them if they cannot make their own domestic policy changes quickly, and can go elsewhere. We'd like to give them some of the deals as a thank you measure, but that's only possible if they sew up their own policies. If their Democrats block the deal until after their elections, they are the ones who lose out billion $ deals to Russia and France.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20): What are the other sources of uranium?
Various. The Russians have their own as well as neighbouring ex-Soviet states. The French have supplies from African sources, like Niger. Even Canada might be a possibility,, if they aren't still hung up about CIRUS.
Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9142 posts, RR: 96 Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1401 times:
Quoting Andrej (Reply 5): Hey nuclear energy is good and clean so it should help India and rest of the World. What happens to the India's military nuclear stock/program?
FWIW I understand that modern reactor designs, like the AP1000, are much less conducive to the extraction of fuel for weapons use........
Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6): However, wind power cannot serve well for base load production due to its variable nature. Nuclear power is excellent for that purpose.
Perfectly well put. Nuclear is the ultimate base load source (so long as you've got some way of soaking up the load at night, like hydro-electric storage)
Internal US politics. I don't know much about it. sorry.
Quoting Astuteman (Reply 23): FWIW I understand that modern reactor designs, like the AP1000, are much less conducive to the extraction of fuel for weapons use.
We don't really have any intention of using the civilian reactors for fissile material production. We explicitly intend to maintain a separate military research reactor program, something that's accepted in the current agreement.
India, cricket junior and senior world champions
25 HAWK21M: Well only a Week to Go & we'll know regds MEL
26 HAWK21M: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/S...ands_in_US/articleshow/3519741.cms Manmohan Singh lands in the USA. regds MEL
27 HAWK21M: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/P..._of_N-deal/articleshow/3528821.cms No Signing of the Deal on this visit I guess. regds MEL
28 BarfBag: The US government is too busy with their financial crisis right now. There'll probably be more positive outcomes during Singh's visit to Paris, and th
29 HAWK21M: I think India is trying to get the US deal on priority for the Assistance at the NSG.But if there are domestic delays there,then probably preference m
30 BarfBag: Well Mel, what do you know. It's Sunday afternoon and I find that the US House of Representatives has approved the deal on Saturday evening their time
31 HAWK21M: Thats great news barf. Time to get started on the work ahead...... Is Manmohan singh still in the USA. regds MEL
32 HAWK21M: The Inking will be done on Saturday. Finally. regds MEL
33 BarfBag: Good for the US. General Electric and Westinghouse are both among chosen bidders for the ~$30 billion first round of nuclear reactor contracts, though
34 HAWK21M: Its interesting to see how business keeness is catering to a huge market regds MEL
35 OA260: Bush signs US-India nuclear bill US President George W Bush has signed into law a nuclear deal with India, which ends a three-decade ban on US nuclear
36 HAWK21m: Great news as scheduled. Now The Indian external affairs minister would visit the USA for the signing of the deal. regds MEL
37 HAWK21M: Finally the Deal has been signed. A concluded agreement. Now let both countries benifit from this cooperation. regds MEL
38 DIJKKIJK: It is good thing that a fast developing energy hungry country like India gets access to safe nuclear technology to meet its needs. But I have heard th
39 BarfBag: They are just a bunch of career protesters and sock puppets funded by western entities. With the western companies now free to walk in and sign lucra
40 HAWK21M: Finally its down to Economics regds MEL
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