JFKTOWERFAN From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 17 Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4154 times:
AAORY From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4140 times:
Quoting JFKTOWERFAN (Thread starter): Anyone wanna take bets on what happens when they fire this thing up?
Will the world come to an end? No.
Will people from the future come for a visit? No.
Will our basic knowledge of particle physics advance? Yes.
TUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4131 times:
The beam will go completely around on 9/10, but an actual collision (what people are worried about) will not take place until 10/21.
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13334 posts, RR: 64 Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4124 times:
Much more powerfull nuclear particles reactions happen every day in our upper atmosphere, when cosmic radiation hits the gas molecules. I think many protests come from other scientists, who see experimental particles research as a waste of money and would like to have this money rather used to fund their own research pet projects.
But I think from a technological and financial point of view, this accelerator will probably the biggest and last one.
JFKTOWERFAN From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4126 times:
I don't think so either, but I like the Russians view that it will make 1.21 gigawatts and Christopher Lloyd and the Delorean will show up in Switzerland.
TUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4104 times:
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4): But I think from a technological and financial point of view, this accelerator will probably the biggest and last one.
No, there is a possible 18 mile long linear collider planned for the USA.
What I want to know is who profits (financially) the most from the LHC should it be a success?
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
Planesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4088 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4104 times:
Quoting AAORY (Reply 2): Will the world come to an end? No.
Will people from the future come for a visit? No.
Will our basic knowledge of particle physics advance? Yes.
Will we finally see a Higg's boson? Hopefully.
Will string theory be confirmed? No.
Has $4.4billion been wasted on such a pointless project? Yes.
It does beg the question though, even if the chance of something going wrong is microscopic, is it really worth it? As comedian Frankie Boyle said on Mock the Week last week, "If my kid said to me 'can I get a trainset in the loft,' I would say 'ok'. if he said 'could I get a trainset that might end the universe, I would say 'what about a bike?'"
TUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4087 times:
Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 7): It does beg the question though, even if the chance of something going wrong is microscopic, is it really worth it?
I read an article where one of the head scientists there even admitted he doesn't know what will happen, but that's it's worth taking the chance. Granted, it probably is, but who gives them the right to dictate the outcome of the lives of the rest of the world?
I'm honestly not worried about this, and I hope it is a success.
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 26 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4068 times:
The CERN collider did cost an estimated 3 billion € -or the cost of five days war in Irak..
Nobody today can seriously tell if it's wasted money or not,but I personally would prefer spending tax-money into basic research like CERN than in fighting wars without tangible results..
Rather than building bridges into nowhere..
AAORY From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4065 times:
Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 7): Has $4.4billion been wasted on such a pointless project? Yes.
I respectfully disagree. Pure science for the sake of advancing our knowledge has potential for huge benefits. Where will it lead? I don't know, but deciding to stay constant in our scientific knowledge is not a good strategy to me.
Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 7): It does beg the question though, even if the chance of something going wrong is microscopic, is it really worth it? As comedian Frankie Boyle said on Mock the Week last week, "If my kid said to me 'can I get a trainset in the loft,' I would say 'ok'. if he said 'could I get a trainset that might end the universe, I would say 'what about a bike?'"
So we should take scientifc advice from a comedian? Amazing logic.
There's a microscopic chance (probably a lot higher than the chances we'll spawn a planet eating black hole) you'll die every time you get on an airplane, but given your ID name, I'm assuming that you still fly. Don't be such a Luddite.
Mdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4097 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4059 times:
Quoting AAORY (Reply 2): Will we finally see a Higg's boson? Hopefully.
Pardon the fact that I'm not a theoretical Physicist but I understand this thing is like a Holy Grail. What's so great about it?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4040 times:
AAORY From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4028 times:
Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 11): Pardon the fact that I'm not a theoretical Physicist but I understand this thing is like a Holy Grail. What's so great about it?
I'm not a physicist either, just an engineer who's taken a lot of physics classes plus an avid reader. Rather than screw it up, I will just post links to a few sites that do a far better job of explaining it than I ever could:
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12706 posts, RR: 80 Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3999 times:
Amazing, just imagine if Thomas Edison's theoretical work, which many questioned at the time, had stopped because of a mix of apathy, ignorance and lack of an obvious application then.
We live, are reliant on, a mass of technologies and knowledge, built up over 1000's of years, much of which started out as a 'waste of money'
Yet so many are utterly ignorant of this, have an inbuilt fear of.....something, are swayed by cranks.
Quoting AAORY (Reply 10): There's a microscopic chance (probably a lot higher than the chances we'll spawn a planet eating black hole) you'll die every time you get on an airplane, but given your ID name, I'm assuming that you still fly.
I guess the point here is that, despite the higher odds of a plane crash, the chances that, by boarding that plane, the entire population of the world will be wiped out are zero.
The evolution of science has always passed through blowing s*it up. If that s*it happens to be the whole of mankind then I guess that is a risk we have to take.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
AircraftGeek From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3989 times:
Quoting AAORY (Reply 2): Will the world come to an end? No.
In the worst situation the Earth will transform into a big black hole swallowing everything, including 2/3 of the population that is currently fighting against starvation and 1/3 of the population that is fighting against obesity and couldn't care less about the remaining 2/3. Big deal? Not so sure.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12706 posts, RR: 80 Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3978 times:
Well those who actually have a lot of knowledge about this subject, do NOT think there is any danger.
But the odd publicity seeking, unqualified crank does?
Here's the deal, if you are so anti science, live without it.
That's medicines, electricity, means of travel faster than a horse. The whole lot.
Any takers?
Rara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 1823 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3966 times:
Everyone who claims this thing will end the universe is a certifiable idiot. Not because it won't - who am I to know, it might be very dangerous after all. But because this is an argument you cannot win. If it does end the universe, then you don't win much because you aren't alive anymore. If it doesn't, you look like a fool.
The only safe prediction in this is that nothing will happen; because that's the only argument that can logically be proven and upheld in the end.
Nothing will happen!
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
Lowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3939 times:
If it does end the universe or even the world, none of us will be around to care, so let er rip. If not and Stephen Hawking is right, we might learn something interesting or useful.
ER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2220 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3889 times:
Quoting AAORY (Reply 2): Will the world come to an end? No.
Quoting AAORY (Reply 2): Will people from the future come for a visit? No.
Quoting AAORY (Reply 2): Will our basic knowledge of particle physics advance? Yes.
Will we finally see a Higg's boson? Hopefully.
Answer to the first relies somewhat on the answer to the 2nd I would think. I know there's more to the whole thing than finding Higg's, but that's the main event, isn't it? So if they don't find it, will it be consensus among physicists that it does not exist, or that they just need to look a different way?
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9212 posts, RR: 42 Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3882 times:
Quoting Moo (Reply 14): Yeah, because physics has absolutely zero impact in our lives today
Quoting GDB (Reply 15): Amazing, just imagine if Thomas Edison's theoretical work, which many questioned at the time, had stopped because of a mix of apathy, ignorance and lack of an obvious application then.
Quoting GDB (Reply 18): Well those who actually have a lot of knowledge about this subject, do NOT think there is any danger.
But the odd publicity seeking, unqualified crank does?
Yet again, a sizeable proportion of the public fall for the haverings of the ill-informed media. Haven't we learned that they always take the worst case scenario, twist the truth a bit and make it seem far scarier than you thought possible?
Planesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4088 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3825 times:
Quoting AAORY (Reply 10): So we should take scientifc advice from a comedian? Amazing logic.
I was trying to inject a little humour in the thread. I apologise if you don't do humour.
Quoting Moo (Reply 14): Yeah, because physics has absolutely zero impact in our lives today
The idea of the experiment (according to BBC News) is to find out how the Universe was formed. Quite frankly, I don't care how the Universe was formed, and I'm sure many others don't either.
25 AGM100: Cool stuff and one amazing engineering project . I hope that the scientist learn something from all of the hard work that went into it.
26 Moo: Good for you, but so what? You think the *only* thing to come out of this series of experiments will be for a bunch of scientists to go 'ahhhh! So *t
27 Blackbird: Never mind what I originally wrote, The first collision doesn't happen until October 21... Blackbird[Edited 2008-09-09 14:11:23]
28 Arsenal@LHR: Maybe if planet earth was swallowed up by a monster black hole wouldn't be a bad thing, i mean, just look around the world, do you see good news? I'm
30 Greggarious: Noooooo! They're starting to love us again!!!
31 Klaus: Actually, the bigger and more interesting question is how the universe works today. And gravity has so far been quite recalcitrant about getting inte
32 AAORY: I see good news and hope every day when I see my wife and kids when I get home from work. I tend to be an optimist and think that over time condition
33 SashA: I think that in today's world the least we need is to spend zillions of money and scientific resources on dicsovering how Universe was concieved. How
35 Lowrider: Don't know what gave you that delusion. They haven't liked us for a while and may not for another generation or two.
36 Allrite: The LHC, like so many other science instruments, pushes the boundaries of engineering as well as science. Science instruments often demand precision e
37 Klaus: 8 years, about to end again. And only if your "us" meant the Bush administration and its hangers-on specifically. Don't take all americans hostage fo
38 Blackbird: What's the Next-Generation Giant-Telescope? Blackbird
39 LTBEWR: Perhaps this Collider will lead to a key descovery to safer, non-nuclear fission energy, in a generation or less. That could be work all the billions
40 Comorin: The Linear Collider is being shelved while our scientists learn how to field-dress moose... As for the profit angle, if CERN didn't make buck from in
41 Francoflier: Geek rap... priceless. Check out the bling Fiat seicento!
42 Starlionblue: Not quite the same. The Y2K bug was quite real. However due to billions of dollars of investment in fixes, there were no big issues. "Doesn't know" d
43 WunalaYann: Eh, I'm sure a lot of people who currently don't have the pleasure of getting, ahem, swallowed, will jump at the opportunity... Indeed, it would be c
44 Greggarious: It's a joke, my main man! (Just like the premise of this thread!) Absolutely! But that means that things like this: ... make me wonder if you're taki
45 Boeing744: As they did for Y2K and for 06/06/06... We have all already lived through numerous "end of the world" days. It's not going to happen...
46 DocLightning: Your car could spontaneously combust into a vast nuclear fireball. The chance is microscopic, but it is not zero. That said, the chance of that happe
47 MadameConcorde: Livecast from the CERN website: http://webcast.cern.ch/index.html CERN logo is 666
48 Baroque: Depends a bit on what they find. As TUNisia writes, another one on its way. And if by any chance this one lights the way to better knowledge of parti
49 MadameConcorde: Remember where this is occuring FOLKS. Neutral CORRUPT Switzerland, where elite criminals hide their wealth. Do you think they would really risk destr
50 DocLightning: There were people who were worried that the test would cause the entire Earth's atmosphere to undergo nuclear ignition.
51 MadameConcorde: On a lighter note, I wonder if this giant toy will have any influence on the Swiss cows? Will Swiss chocolate taste different after today? This is a b
52 DocLightning: There were people who were worried that the test would cause the entire Earth's atmosphere to undergo nuclear ignition.
53 MadameConcorde: Largest particle collider conducts successful test AP - 0 minutes ago GENEVA - The world's largest particle collider successfully completed its first
54 MadameConcorde: Too late for editing. I just found this link. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/bigbang/ With all the latest Large Hadron Collider news updates coming from
55 Baroque: Indeed there were, but those in charge could see no way that any fission could transmit to anything else including the atmosphere. And they were righ
56 MadameConcorde: Latest news: 1315pm (BST) FROM Andrew Caspari, Radio 4, in central control room Evans on world at one: 'Here at cern is the world centre of excellence
57 David L: Exactly. Such a lot of time and money has not been spent so that a few physicists can say "Huh!" after the first collision. We're talking about exami
58 MadameConcorde: I bet there will be a lot of partying in town in Geneva tonight to celebrate the first day of running the LHC.
59 MadameConcorde: Look at this nice link. You get the LHC updated data feed, live! http://cmsmon.cern.ch/cmsdb/servlet/LhcMonitor wow!
60 Metroliner: The LHC is interesting. Someone mentioned above that it cost the same to build as 5 days' war in Iraq cost. But it's all relative - if one were to alt
61 MadameConcorde: The LHC team is really getting on! 1404pm (BST) FROM Andrew Caspari, Radio 4, in central control room Wow that's the moment. The anti clockwise journe
62 Planesarecool: I hear Gary Glitter is visiting - apparently the prospect of seeing a 'mini black hole' was too good to miss!
63 Klaus: No. Only the reactionary anti-scientific crowd...!
64 Dougloid: The list of nobel Laureates seems to undercut your arguments decisively.
65 Sebolino: If things go bad, we won't have any time to figure out anyway ... So who cares ?
66 Klaus: Unfortunately that list has done nothing to stem the tide of religious fundamentalism washing over the US society and politics.
67 David L: OK, but you can also say that any "tide of religious fundamentalism" has done little to nothing to stem the flow of science in the USA.
68 Moo: Read the BBC News 'Have Your Say' on the LHC - its depressingly depressing. http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...=5325&edition=1&ttl=20080910162959
69 Okie: So does this mean that all the "black holes" in space were created by civilizations that had progressed to the point they could build a collider? Hmmm
70 MD11Engineer: They'll all turn violet: On a serious note: It seems that there exists a lot of an anti-scientific attitude, something we as mere humans shouldn't ta
71 Klaus: That is unfortunately not true. The Bush administration has aggressively tried to suppress the spreading of scientific knowledge and even further res
72 MD11Engineer: Well, the attitude reminds me of the Taliban, who happily use technology resulting from basic scientific research (like computers, modern weapons, ra
73 Dougloid: Can you be a little more specific? I recognize that it is administration policy to deny Federal funding for stem cell research for lines that had not
74 MD11Engineer: From the BBC forum Moo posted above: This says it all, doesn't it? Jan
75 Baroque: Well: Bush administration suppression of scientific research Gets 113 k hits. How about: Seth Shulman Undermining Science Suppression and Distortion
76 MD11Engineer: Another one from the BBC forum: I think the main problem lies in this: Most modern scientific theories and experimental results are so difficult to un
77 Dougloid: B, we're not talking about a popularity contest here, how many google hits you got with a search string. and in fact, if you were looking for that te
78 David L: There are areas of research here that walk a tightrope between receiving government backing, either financially or legally, and not, e.g. GM crops, o
79 Klaus: When you're searching verbatim (with quotes) for an incorrectly phrased sentence you will usually not get a direct hit, as anybody with even just mar
81 GDB: Metroliner, speak for yourself, if your life is so sou-less, do something about it. You have much potential to do so than your ancestors after all. My
82 David L: And yet there still seems to be a lot of continuing science in the US contradicting the administration's alleged shenanigans.
83 David L: "If I can't see it, it can't be any use". If only they knew a fraction of what particle physics has done for us.
84 Klaus: "A lot"? Sure. But with massive governmental pressure exerted wherever feasible it is getting less and less free, which increasingly damages the cred
85 David L: Those allegations are made by both sides in the debate.
86 MadameConcorde: 1636pm (BST) FROM Andrew Caspari, Radio 4, in central control room Just spoken to Lyn Evans who has been running things here at CERN. He confirms no c
87 Klaus: What are you talking about? There is only one US government at any given time, and the evidence about the misconduct of the Bush administration is su
88 David L: You're kidding right? I know English isn't your native language but, come on! You know perfectly well that scientists of the "denier" persuasion, fro
89 AircraftGeek: Because Monaco is a country made of philanthropists, nobody runs there to hide their wealth, right? Â Â Your sentence would be a nice joke in gener
90 MD11Engineer: Next time please quote the full post. You have taken a statement out of context and made it look as if I was against the accelerator. Jan
91 Klaus: And apart from you veering off topic towards a personal slight, what makes this statement in any way pertinent to this discussion? "Similar allegatio
92 Pyrex: Well, it would have been funny had the comment not come from a resident of Monaco...
93 Dougloid: OK. What else? Mr. Waksman is a wonderful fellow but he's an opposition politician. He's not going out of his way to make the administration look goo
94 Klaus: You could have read the actual text, especially the actual committee report and the pertinent evidence linked to the page. If you're trying to split
95 CV990A: Here we go- I found a website that will definitively tell us if the LHC has destroyed the world: http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/ CV990A
96 GOwithCO332: This is one of those things where when I first heard about it, I thought that it was really interesting and that was that. Like said above, if you are
97 Starlionblue: If all this money was poured into aid to poor countries it would make a small difference for a few years, then nothing. Those countries would have no
98 Planesarecool: Out of interest, how long is the LHC experiment going to be going on for? Will they do the 'big' collision in October and that be that? If so, what wi
99 Dougloid: Yes I did. It's about climate change. I said "where's the proof of a systemic anti science jihad?" You still haven't done that. I know that, and I kn
100 Starlionblue: I read that a 16-year old Indian girl committed suicide after being distressed at news reports about "LHC will trigger Doomsday". Very very sad. In Sw
102 Planesarecool: I look at it this way: There is (according to those who were trying to get the project stopped!) a 1 in 50,000,000 chance of earth being destroyed by
103 Springbok747: Did anyone know that the LHC can defrost a large pizza in 30 nanoseconds? Damn..my stupid microwave takes forever...now if only they make the LHC the
104 Phoenix9: I thought that was Oct. 21 when the first collision happens. Oh and world ends on Dec 21, 2012 - the date is still 21st . What if the Mayans were off
105 MD11Engineer: Not just this. The particle guns used in radiotherapy are also particle accelerators. Jan
106 Springbok747: Oh yes, its 21 October. Hm..still have a few weeks, maybe I should start reinforcing my basement now..hmm.
107 Allrite: I am personally terrified that the LHC might remake The Black Hole. Publically funded researchers are experts at making equipment last for as long as
108 Starlionblue: By the way check out the Google Logo today. So cool! Note how the letters are being sucked towards the collision. http://www.google.com      Â
109 Dc9northwest: Average Joe: "What's CERN? Black holes? Physics? Screw that. *changes channel* Hey, look, it's Britney Spears! What's she been up to?"
110 Acheron: Worry when they actually start colliding stuff in October, not now when they are just firing a proton to test the sensors and measuring equipments.
111 BN747: Sums up the Bush Adminstration with LHC precision! The 10 Commandments in courtrooms, anti-stem cell research, etc, all has trumped the Bush Admins p
112 Baroque: Just go ahead and ignore the whole bloody book cos my Google search did not make you happy. Just for the record, the term used was refined to try to
113 Starlionblue: I won't worry then either, but this raises an interesting point. Will the press be able to raise the same ruckus then? Won't it be like the boy who c
114 David L: Fair enough, my bad. What you actually said was... Since the subject of religious fundamentalism is way off topic, I assumed you meant that the conve
115 MadameConcorde: Not permanent, only temporary. FYI Monaco does not earn me my daily bread so it is just as if I had nothing to do with the place. My being here is ra
116 Dougloid: If you've read the book and are ready to stand on it, why don't ya send it to me? OK....you've got stem cell funding cutoff, maybe a disagreement wit
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