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Woodward: Secret Killing Program Is Key In Iraq  
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3877 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

Secret killing program is key in Iraq, Woodward says


Story Highlights

* Program likened to WWII-era Manhattan Project that developed the atomic bomb

* Author discloses the existence of secret operational capabilities in latest book

* National security advisor disputes Woodward's conclusion about the Iraq surge


http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/me...secret/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3591 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

OOOOHHH a "Secret Killing Program" OOOOHHHH

Could the program have been like this?:

1. Increase the number of troops.

2. Use intelligence operatives to determine where the terrorists and insurgents are.

3. Concentrate the troops where the terrorists and insurgents are.

4. Kill the terrorists and insurgents.

Some Secret!!

The Mahattan Project analogy is just silly.

Bob Woodward is just an attention whore.


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2862 times:

I doubt it's the way you have layed it out DLPMMM


The way you have described it is basically the same way it has been done in Afghanistan from day one by both American and allied forces.



I think it's different this time. I think the Whitehouse would have commented a bit more openly if it is such a simple " normal " operation as you put it.


But that is my opinion.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Damn sounds good to me ! Their may be something too this , one of my bothers friends (Army sniper) was sent to Quantico (pre surge) to train with some special units (FBI/CIA/Whoever) he told him that it was some "new program" .

Guess it worked .... good job to all the people who took part. Outstanding!.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4318 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2841 times:

Who cares whether it was snipers or the addition of more troops that worked? In the end, regardless of which option it was, it seems to be working. Personally, I hope it was the sniper option. Nothing - NOTHING - instills fear in a combatant more than getting whacked silently and without advance warning. Besides, the sniper option is much more cleaner and less costly in lives and treasure.


I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Three possibilities


1.) I have heard of bug-shaped very small drones. Perhaps those could have some kind of device to locate terrorists, allowing them to be tracked, or assassinated using a poison "stinger".

2.) Or maybe figured out some kind of device that can "scan the minds" of enemies (Hey, there was an article called "The future of war could be fought with mind drugs" or something like that which did discuss this), sounds crazy, but who knows.

3.) There really isn't any new strategy or technology -- just a claim there is in order to psych the enemy out.


The fact that there is so much secrecy around this thing makes sense, however I am somewhat worried that if this is some kind of new "secret program", that it could eventually be used on the civilian population after this. The government would overnight become more dangerous than the terrorists we're fighting.


Blackbird
BTW: Let's hope I don't disappear, get a heart-attack, cancer, die suddenly, "commit suicide" -- if I do, you know who's to blame for it.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8837 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2818 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 5):
1.) I have heard of bug-shaped very small drones. Perhaps those could have some kind of device to locate terrorists, allowing them to be tracked, or assassinated using a poison "stinger".

I've seen them tested. But their ability to carry a useful load (explosive charge, etc) is extremely limited and it's so light that the slightest breeze can send it crashing into walls, damaging delicate instrumentation and controls. These are not ready for prime-time yet.

There are larger versions (about 4 feet high, 3 feet across and fly around or hover under a pair of counter-rotating props), and these have been deployed since last year in Iraq, from what I've heard.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 5):
2.) Or maybe figured out some kind of device that can "scan the minds" of enemies (Hey, there was an article called "The future of war could be fought with mind drugs" or something like that which did discuss this), sounds crazy, but who knows.

If we actually had this, we could say "screw all this", let the Arabs kill each other, retire to our own countries and deploy this "mind-reading" equipment at our borders. Anyone coming in with the intent to commit a crime, we arrest.

But we don't.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Dreadnought

It doesn't have to carry a useful charge, just a really really potent poison. That's all that is required of it. It doesn't have to blow people up.

As for the mind-reading technology... a lot of technology has roots in military programs, then graduates to civilian use. For all I know if this technology does exist and is being used in war, you can guess it will eventually be used for civilian use eventually in law-enforcement. This is definetly horrifying and if true is very disturbing as it would cause all privacy and freedom as we know it to cease to exist forever.


Blackbird

[Edited 2008-09-09 15:01:35]

[Edited 2008-09-09 15:03:02]

User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8837 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2786 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 7):
As for the mind-reading technology... a lot of technology has roots in military programs, then graduates to civilian use.

Once again, if we had such technology, we would not be having all the problems we are having today. You can put away the tinfoil hat.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3613 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Actually the "killing program" is hyperbole. Woodward does not say that. Most likely it is new techniques rather than new weapons.

Lots of computational modeling and behavioral study.

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/print/4424

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=110040&org=NSF


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

Mham001,

Question 1: Are the computer simulations used in the behavior modeling actually sentient (like a real human, actually conscious and all that)?

Question 2: Do you think this technology will eventually be used by our government for law-enforcement work to stop people from committing crimes before they do, and taking care of political dissidents (not terrorists, just dissidents), some of which have legitimate claims?


Blackbird


User currently offlineJohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 912 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

Did you hear about this new thing called the "Internet"? It was invented by this Senator from Tennessee called Al Gore. It can connect all the computers in the world. The government can spy on anything you've looked at or written. It's like 1984. Anything you write can never truly be erased. It's scary- the government will know your every thought and will be able to control you.
Signed: Blackbird circa 1979, via snail mail...  Smile

PS- If I disappear or am killed or kidnapped, you know who did it (one of the many thousands of a.net posters).


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2711 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 10):
Question 2: Do you think this technology will eventually be used by our government for law-enforcement work to stop people from committing crimes before they do, and taking care of political dissidents (not terrorists, just dissidents), some of which have legitimate claims?

Someone just rented the movie Minority Report.


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2708 times:

RJdxer,

It is a good question, as this technology could allow such things to happen.


Blackbird


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2658 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 5):
The fact that there is so much secrecy around this thing makes sense,

You mean the same "secrecy" surrounding the fact that the US government is controlled by aliens from another dimension? This "secrecy proves it exists" BS is what makes conspiracy theorists so laughable. Anyone with half a mind sees it as an admission that there's no evidence.


User currently offlineJohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 912 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2638 times:



Quoting David L (Reply 14):
Anyone with half a mind.

Ahhh... I think I see the problem here... Smile


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2623 times:



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 15):
Ahhh... I think I see the problem here...  Smile

I should have been more specific. Anything from half a mind to a full mind is good. More than one mind, however, takes you back over to the Dark Side.  Smile


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2609 times:

David L,

Quote:
You mean the same "secrecy" surrounding the fact that the US government is controlled by aliens from another dimension?

What are you smoking. I never said anything about Aliens.

I was simply saying that the two links that Mham01 posted seem to be the most likely explanation for Mr. Woodward's claims. I then asked if such technology could end up being used on the civilian population to screen out dissidents, which is a legitimate speculation since our government after all has engaged in wireless wiretapping and would obviously love to be able to stop criminals before they're act -- even despite that this is against the Constitution and First Amendment (Which require probable cause first).


Blackbird


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2604 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 17):
What are you smoking. I never said anything about Aliens.

Oh dear! Was that really so far over your head? Did the rest of the post not make it any clearer?  biggrin 


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

Killing Program 101


Big version: Width: 500 Height: 331 File size: 120kb



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5694 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Whatever the truth is, the fact is a.net would be half the fun without Blackbird.  alert 



User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5506 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2562 times:

It is a satellite based system that launches a kinetic weapon and uses gravity for its acceleration. It is triggered by an identified voice over phone connection. The target is identified, triangulated, and the satellite, via a simple rail gun, launches a kinetic device that guides itself based on satellite telemetry first, then ground originating data. It has an accuracy of 10cm which is perfect for a human sized target, due to its ultimate impact velocity it can penetrate any normal structure, even though multiple floors. Either the impactor or accelerated debris kills the target. The entire operation takes approximately 3 minutes.

Tinfoil hats do not offer protection.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineJohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 912 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2530 times:

Blackbird, go sit on the Group W bench...NOW!!!  Wink

User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

Tugger,

Is that actually true?


Blackbird


User currently offlineDrewfly From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

IMO there are two possibilities here:

A. Psyops at its finest. Someone is feeding this info to Woodward, but why? I remember during the first Gulf War listening to the radio and hearing about some type of military drone that could stay aloft for 24 hours, survey huge amounts of territory and report its findings back in real time (turned out to be the Predator). Why report this? To scare the crap out of the other guy.

B. The military has made a huge leap in its ability to tag, track, and locate people over long distances without them being aware. Technology like the ability to read thermal fingerprints from long range and building nano-size listening/tracking devices powered by, say, ambient energy rather than a battery.

I am going to go for B, with a healthy dose of A for good measure. Back in 2004 the Defense Science Board wrote up a report that said:

Quote:
The global war on terrorism cannot be won without a ‘Manhattan Project’-like TTL [tagging, tracking, and locating] program....

This tagging and tracking could be used for:

• People or groups such as enemy leaders or sympathizers, nuclear weapons or explosives experts, and terrorist paymasters.

• Things such as weapons of mass destruction, materials or components, precision machinery, pharmaceutical plants, specialized instruments, pathogens and seed stocks or vehicles.

• Activities such as recruiting, financial transactions, Internet activity, pathogen genome sequencing or organizational activity or meeting.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001148.html

I'm guessing the program in question is simply the operational genesis of this effort.

[Edited 2008-09-11 17:00:49]

[Edited 2008-09-11 17:01:42]

[Edited 2008-09-11 17:02:14]


A-10 Thunderbolt II, ugly as hell, efficient as hell, would you like to meet my boomstick?
25 Dreadnought : Yep. In fact the Tungsten projectile comes down so fast that at impact it explodes like a good-sized bomb. We tested it on the Murray bulding in Okla
26 Post contains links Blackbird : Drewfly, What exactly is a thermal fingerprint? You mean the heat emissions a persion puts out right? Have they actually started building nano-sized l
27 Post contains links Drewfly : Here's a Powerpoint from SOCOM about all this. http://blog.wired.com/defense/files/Richardson_Continuous.pdf
28 Post contains images Flighty : Oh great, so basically the entire plot of Terminator 2: Judgment Day is real. Wonderful... "John Connor, target aquired..." And to think, in the year
29 Blackbird : Flighty, See that's kind of the problem: If this country (Or even a future One World Government -- there are a lot of people who want to see it happen
30 Johns624 : Somehow, I don't see the Russians or Chinese going along with this...
31 Blackbird : Johns624, For those who want a one world government: Who ever said consent was part of the equation? Blackbird
32 Johns624 : So we can barely control Iraq and we're going to bully the Chinese and Russians?
33 DLPMMM : You obviously don't have any technical background, nor experience in working with the DoD. There is already more advanced recognition software in civ
34 NorthstarBoy : i highly doubt that the military is actually going to admit to what it actually has capability wise. look at the stealth bomber, it was flying around
35 Johns624 : Name names! We know who the leaders of the banks are and the banks aren't doing so well right now. You sound like your talking about the Protocols of
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