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Official U.S. Election - Obama/Biden Plans & Policies  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6357 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Users have requested that we bring some organization to the large number of posts being made about the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election in the non-aviation forum. For this reason, we’re creating ‘official’ threads to provide some structure to the overall subject, and make it easier for readers to contribute and follow the various discussions.

Six threads are being created, including this one. If you want to add a post, please make sure you’re adding it to the most appropriate of the choices shown below:

Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Campaign
Official U.S. Election – Obama/Biden Campaign
Official U.S. Election – McCain/Palin Plans & Policies
Official U.S. Election – Obama/Biden Plans & Policies (this thread)
Official U.S. Election – Polls & Projections
Official U.S. Election – Humor, Commentary, Etc.

Examples of content appropriate for this thread:

How Obama/Biden would govern, if elected. How they would change things, or do more of the same. Who might they appoint as cabinet members? Etc.


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379 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6354 times:

Input "Obama + policy" in Google, and the 1st page has plenty of material concerning Obama and foreign policy. Looks like that might be the biggest challenge he'll have to address in the coming weeks, although, I'm sure most people would agree that having Biden alongside helps him a lot.

User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21627 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6328 times:

Since I posted the 10 worst ideas of McCain in the other thread, only fair to post the 10 worst ideas of Obama (according to Foreign Policy magazine) over here:

1. Renegotiating NAFTA
2. Opposing the US-Colombia FTA
3. Talking Openly About Bombing Pakistan
4. Negotiations with Ahmedinejad
5. The Patriot Employer Act
6. Promoting Coal-to-Liquid Fuels
7. Elliminating Income Taxes for Seniors Making $50,000 or Less
8. Boosting Ethanol Subsidies
9. Taxing Oil Companies More
10. Tapping the Strategic Oil Reserve

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4461&page=0

#5 isn't that big of an issue, and he's backed off of some of the other ones on the list. But I'm still not a fan of #s 8 or 10, and I'm iffy on 1, 2, 3 and 4.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6325 times:

Since the neocons can't stay on topic in their own threads, and since Obama's position on Israel was questioned...

Quote:
Speaking to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee on March 2, 2007, Obama called Israel "our strongest ally in the region," and stated: "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs." On the Palestinian Authority's new unity government, Obama said: "We should all be concerned about the agreement negotiated among Palestinians in Mecca last month."

In March 2007, Obama told Democratic activists in Iowa, "Nobody is suffering more than the Palestinian people. ...if we could get some movement among Palestinian leadership, what I'd like to see is a loosening up of some of the restrictions on providing aid directly to the Palestinian people."

Obama has also discussed in more general terms his views about the Palestinians vis-à-vis the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On June 4, 2007, he stated that:

"...resolution [to the conflict] and a better life for all people... is something that can be achieved, but it's going to require some soul-searching on the Palestinian side. They have to recognize Israel's right to exist; they have to renounce violence and terrorism as a tool to achieve their political ends; they have to abide by agreements. In that context, I think the Israelis will gladly say, "Let's move forward negotiations that would allow them to live side by side with the Palestinians in peace and security."

Obama denounced former President Jimmy Carter for meeting with Hamas. Obama said "Hamas is not a state, Hamas is a terrorist organization."

In June 2008, Obama became the first presidential candidate ever to publicly back the traditional Israeli position that Jerusalem remain forever undivided under Israel rule. "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided," Obama declared on June 4, 2008. Days later, he said, "obviously, it's going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues. And Jerusalem will be part of those negotiations."

On a July, 2008 world tour focused on trouble spots for U.S. national security interests, Obama met with Israeli president Shimon Peres, prime minister Ehud Olmert, oppostion party leader Benjamin Netanyahu, and Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas and prime minister Salam Fayyad. Obama reiterated that Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel, but that territorial disputes regarding that city and elsewhere needed to be resolved without direct U.S. involvement. "That’s an issue that has to be dealt with by the parties involved, the Palestinians and the Israelis, and it is not the job of the United States to dictate the form in which that will take, but rather to support the efforts that are being made right now to resolve these very difficult issues that have a long history." On the same trip, Obama said, "The state of Israel faces determined enemies who seek its destruction, but it also has a friend and ally in the United States that will always stand by the people of Israel."

Obama also issued a warning to Iran at the same time, saying, "A nuclear Iran would pose a grave threat and the world must prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon." Obama said no options were "off the table" in dealing with a nuclear threat from Iran but that the country should be offered diplomatic incentives in the form of "big carrots" as well as punitive measures or threats in the form of "big sticks." Obama said, "I think there are opportunities for us to mobilize a much more serious regime of sanctions on Iran, but also to offer them the possibility of improved relations in the international community if they stand down on these nuclear weapons."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...arack_Obama#Arab-Israeli_conflicts


User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6319 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 3):

You quoted Wikipedia? At least go to the source material the editors use.  sarcastic 


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6318 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 4):
You quoted Wikipedia? At least go to the source material the editors use.

I know you neocons have a hard time using the wonders of internets but allow me to quote, directly from the Obama campaign for you.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/#onisrael

[Edited 2008-09-12 22:31:44]

User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6300 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 2):

1. Renegotiating NAFTA
2. Opposing the US-Colombia FTA
3. Talking Openly About Bombing Pakistan
4. Negotiations with Ahmedinejad
5. The Patriot Employer Act
6. Promoting Coal-to-Liquid Fuels
7. Elliminating Income Taxes for Seniors Making $50,000 or Less
8. Boosting Ethanol Subsidies
9. Taxing Oil Companies More
10. Tapping the Strategic Oil Reserve

On negotiations with Iran his website has:
The Problem: Iran has sought nuclear weapons, supports militias inside Iraq and terror across the region, and its leaders threaten Israel and deny the Holocaust. But Obama believes that we have not exhausted our non-military options in confronting this threat; in many ways, we have yet to try them.

We have yet to try them seems a strong point. Who knows how Ahmad would perform in a situation where he was not declared a pariah before he opened his mouth. Maybe he would perform as previously, but who knows until they try. The fascinating thing is that what would be the cost of failed negotiations - a couple of airfares? Oh pride. Pride in what for god's sake?

CTL might have to be done but I would like to see how he sees it fitting in with an overall energy plan and "Within 10 years save more oil than we currently import from the Middle East and Venezuela combined." could be a more important factor.

Ethanol seems a bad idea unles the US wants to move to Brazil!!

Strategic oil reserve, leave it where it is. However bad it is, it could get a lot worse.

Bombing Pakistan - that does make me wonder it there are McCain genes in the guy. If you really want to fight the third most populous Muslim nation as well as a couple of others, why go ahead. But it is difficult to see a cost benefit analysis coming out anything other than highly negative. There is a problem in Pakistan, but Pakistanis have to solve it. You could suggest that attacking Pakistan would be one of the best ways to invite the nuclear bomb in a boat to NY threat that the hardliners go on about.

Others PASS!!


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6269 times:

Well there is no mistaking the fascination that a.net members have with policy - NOT!

There is much criticism of various aspects of elections, not only in the US but elsewhere too, however the stunning silence on policy aspects is positive reinforcement - it is not just a fascination for the bizarre, but an unwillingness to discuss the more important - as in the things that actually will affect our lives in the next four years.

Not even complaints that there is no grand vision as to how to avoid additional credit disasters that seem to be screwing up the world almost beyond belief.

Even thinking a war with Russia might be OK does not seem to have stirred much passion (yet) on either side, I guess apart from those who deny that is what was said.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

Is Wall St now supporting Obama?

At least Barack has not publicly opined that he does not care much (or words to that effect) for matters economic.

It might be time for FDR Mark II to run up the curtain.

2.5 days and only four posts from the US!! Wow. Clearly the US is riveted on one possible solution for the major problem of the year - I am meaning Obama in case that is not clear.


User currently offlineJ_Hallgren From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6211 times:

So based on this article, it appears Obama tried to delay troop withdrawal in Iraq...what else would one expect? http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008...all_gis_iraq_withdrawal_129150.htm


COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6177 times:

At least the Wall St disaster has got policy matters to the front of the news bulletins in relation to the campaign.

I cannot discern a detailed plan by either, although the line of McCann has had quite a few years (and a few previous crises as well) to come up with his plans seems fairly reasonable. Obama needs to put out some detail of what he would regulate and to what effect. There seem to be plenty on the sidelines ready to complain about the possibility of the baby being thrown out with the bathwater. Not much mention that if the dirty bathwater does not get flung out rather sharpish the baby may well have drowned.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6170 times:

Well suffice to say that they have no policy. Sen Obama is a classic politician , and really that is about it. He has a solution to all your problems , that is how I know he is a fake and will say anything .

Frankly I will give some credit to McCain for being honest. His background is not fiscal policy and the President does not really need to have it . The President is effectively the CEO; and what we need is a President who's judgement you can trust to put the right managers in place. Thats it ,

All of that said , the current crisis is not the fault of our federal government anyway. Sure their may be some loop holes in the SEC oversight rules that need tightened up. But we are a free market (Or we were), and the rush on the subprime's and the bad loans are decisions made by corporations... not the Federal government. John McCain sees it that way , and will most likely not demand more Fed regulation in the end.

The last thing we need is more Federal restrictions ... what is happening now is simply the effects of bad business decisions by CEO's. Now it is time to hit the bottom and rebuild , that is the American Spirit my friend and that is what liberals have such a problem with. They want the precious government to make up for their stupid mistakes and bad decisions ... that is what you will get with Sen Obama..

Sen Obama policy is outlined perfectly in this statement. "Bill is is neighbourly for the top 5% to help out the waitress" Neighbourly ? Please



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6164 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 11):
Sen Obama policy is outlined perfectly in this statement. "Bill is is neighbourly for the top 5% to help out the waitress" Neighbourly ? Please

And the quote means?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 11):
The last thing we need is more Federal restrictions ... what is happening now is simply the effects of bad business decisions by CEO's. Now it is time to hit the bottom and rebuild , that is the American Spirit my friend and that is what liberals have such a problem with. They want the precious government to make up for their stupid mistakes and bad decisions ... that is what you will get with Sen Obama..

Wanna bet that now is the time to "hit the bottom"?


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6161 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 12):
And the quote means?

Its class warfare and wealth redistribution. Thats all. It does not matter because we are going there anyway. We rich white people should feel sorry for the waitress and just be ok with going from 43% to 53% tax rate. Then we can put our red scarves on and go march in the state volunteer parade . He is openly Marxist , and that is how it is.

I volunteered this weekends , working on heavy equipment being loaded to go to Galveston. I sure as hell did not need anybody to encourage me to volunteer.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 12):
Wanna bet that now is the time to "hit the bottom"?



Well I do have some cash since I sold out of Merrill when it was @ 92.00 thank god for pre marks. Whadaya got ?



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21627 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6161 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 11):
His background is not fiscal policy and the President does not really need to have it . The President is effectively the CEO; and what we need is a President who's judgement you can trust to put the right managers in place. Thats it ,

How many airlines have been run into ruin by executives who were hired because they were "good managers" but had no idea what went on the in the airline business? A president needs to know something about what they're doing - enough to be accountable on the decisions that are made. Passing off responsibility isn't going to work - the current Administration is testament to that.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6156 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
Passing off responsibility isn't going to work - the current Administration is testament to that.

A CEO needs to set goals for his management team . These goals usually approved by the BOD shareholders body or corporate partnership. When his management team does not achieve these goals they are fired or reorganized . Or the BOD sacks the CEO and hires a new one. The CEO does not have to be a expert at every facet of the corporation he does need to manage his recourse's .



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6156 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
How many airlines have been run into ruin by executives who were hired because they were "good managers" but had no idea what went on the in the airline business? A president needs to know something about what they're doing - enough to be accountable on the decisions that are made. Passing off responsibility isn't going to work - the current Administration is testament to that.

It's not that simple and you know it. A typical CEO has a single corporation to run, whereas a President has the equivalent of numerous corporations in different industries to run. No one can be an expert at everything. We wouldn't have a Cabinet filled with subject matter experts if that was the case.

Even to take your Corporate analogy, if a CEO knew everything how come firms like McKinsey, Bain, and companies like mine exist? We assist CEOs of every Auto OEM in the US, even the successful Asian ones. They don't have all the answers.

Most CEOs of even THOSE successful companies rely heavily on their executives to present the facts. No CEO has the time to micromanage, they can only steer the ship based on what their people give them.

McCain's core competency is defense and foreign policy. What's Obama's? Having a law degree and giving fancy speeches doesn't qualify you for anything. Biden is supposed to be a foreign policy guy.

So what's Obama's qualifications to run the economy again? Community Organizer? State Senator? Senator who's been running for President most of the time?

Last time I checked, they don't teach Economics 101 at Harvard Law...


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6155 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
We have yet to try them seems a strong point. Who knows how Ahmad would perform in a situation where he was not declared a pariah before he opened his mouth. Maybe he would perform as previously, but who knows until they try. The fascinating thing is that what would be the cost of failed negotiations - a couple of airfares? Oh pride. Pride in what for god's sake?

 checkmark  Agree 100%. If the USA don't stop their cowboy diplomacy style, everything will become even worse. What exactly does McCain want to achieve by not talking to Iran? The status quo will remain and the sable-rattling will go on. What a great plan.  Yeah sure



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6136 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 17):
checkmark Agree 100%. If the USA don't stop their cowboy diplomacy style, everything will become even worse. What exactly does McCain want to achieve by not talking to Iran? The status quo will remain and the sable-rattling will go on. What a great plan.

Versus what? Do you think the Iranians will pull a Qaddafi and re-enter the world? We've seen this drama played out with North Korea and nothing changed. They fooled everyone and created nukes. Nice job Jimmy Carter.

What will "talks" accomplish? The EU has been trying non-stop to do it themselves offering Iran every kind of carrot and incentive you can imagine.

As long as we need their oil, Iran isn't going anywhere. And as long as Iran needs our money in the form of oil revenues nothing will change. Neither party has an incentive to.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6133 times:

Don't quite know where Jimmy C got into N Korea or how seminally connected N Korea is with Iran.

But really forward thinking - nice work. Bash away with a policy that has been failing in spades for a best part of a decade. And then plan to keep bashing.

You have not the least idea what Iran would do if it was not being declared to be evil and threatened with being turned into a parking lot every week.

Of course the EU will not be successful with the US sounding like the school bully in the background. Every checked how happy the EU diplomats are with the US? Obviously not.


User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6130 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
You have not the least idea what Iran would do if it was not being declared to be evil and threatened with being turned into a parking lot every week.

They are hardly innocent, give me a break. Ask the British sailors they kidnapped what they think of that comment.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):

But really forward thinking - nice work. Bash away with a policy that has been failing in spades for a best part of a decade. And then plan to keep bashing.

Versus what exactly? Hugging each other and saying bygones will be bygones? Iran has bigger problems than the US, look at the state of their internal economy. They are going to have to chose eventually, what's more important: Supporting Hezbollah and attacking Israel or their economy.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):

Of course the EU will not be successful with the US sounding like the school bully in the background. Every checked how happy the EU diplomats are with the US? Obviously not.

Why wouldn't the EU be successful? Even the Russians have tried to sort this mess out to no avail.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6129 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 17):
What exactly does McCain want to achieve by not talking to Iran?

And what would Iran lose by opening up to "talk to the US " ? Iran is betting the US will lose the struggle going on in the west. They , with Venezuela , Russia , NK , and others are staking it on our decline and do not feel obligated to talk or negotiate. With the decline of the US , Iran and Russia are poised to become powerful influences in their regions. Why should they talk to us ? And why should we talk to them? Besides , it is known that the US has been negotiating with them in secret in Geneva.

We can not negotiate with Iran , they are not reliable and have no accountability to uphold their side of the negotiation. They want nuclear weapons , and unless the deal includes them getting nuclear weapons .. no deal will be achieved.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

Hopefully Sen Obama plans on continuing his personal success. Sen Obama has become very wealthy during the Bush administration's term. According to some estimates making a couple of million bucks. Nice work , now that is a real American story.


You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6113 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 22):
Hopefully Sen Obama plans on continuing his personal success. Sen Obama has become very wealthy during the Bush administration's term. According to some estimates making a couple of million bucks. Nice work , now that is a real American story.

Maybe he'll write another Autobiography!!!

Funny how this thread is empty...Obama's plans are a rehash of the Carter Administration economically. Remember how that turned out?

Good old Obama is inciting panic by making comparisons to the Great Depression..Yeah real smart. Irrational investor panic can do far worse damage than an idiot CEO. How many people are going to sell low because their Messiah just made that comparison to the Great Depression?

And the guy is completely off base. It's not even close to the "Great Depression" I don't call a 3.3% GDP rate and 6.1% unemployment a "Depression" About 6% of mortgages are deliquent not the 50% that we had in the 1930's...We have record exports and lower oil prices and a recovering dollar...Yup Great Depression..Keep it up Barry.

Even FDR tried to reassure the country when things were going to hell. Nice Job Barry.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6111 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
But really forward thinking - nice work. Bash away with a policy that has been failing in spades for a best part of a decade. And then plan to keep bashing.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
Of course the EU will not be successful with the US sounding like the school bully in the background.

 checkmark 

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
What will "talks" accomplish?



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
Why should they talk to us ? And why should we talk to them?



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
We can not negotiate with Iran , they are not reliable and have no accountability to uphold their side of the negotiation.

Flame me all you want, but I'd say the outcome of the talks is secondary. The willingness to talk to Iran is the most important issue. Only by offering negotiations can the USA indicate that it wants to solve the problems in a constructive way. Let's assume Obama wins the election. The best thing he could do is to say: "Listen Ahmadinedjad, I'll fly to Tehran and then we talk, face to face." If Ahmadinedjad declines the offer or really messes up the talks, if they take place, then the international community will blame nobody but him, and he knows it. He has two choices: to cooperate or face more isolation.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
Besides , it is known that the US has been negotiating with them in secret in Geneva.

And why should Ahmadinedjad care? Secret negotiations cannot question his reliability.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
25 AGM100 : I will recount , I have argued on here that the Bush administration is not handling the Iranian situation correctly. I have stated in the past the id
26 Baroque : Funny how I DO remember the Carter Admin and you clearly do not - unless that is not your age. You have read, and what have you read? Did you read ab
27 Sv7887 : I'm referring more to his fiscal policy than anything. The failed Oil Windfall taxes and the economic turmoil at the time. Even Mr. Obama has said he
28 Baroque : So you are saying that the financial turmoil under Jimmy the well known peanut nuclear expert was worse than that under Bush the well known Texas ran
29 L-188 : Are you kidding history is repleat with them Frank Lorenzo Neil Berght Dick Reeve Charles Willis Raymond Marshell God know how many have passed throu
30 Baroque : Not exactly but might that not be better than the present administration has actually achieved so far. Not to mention so many of Jimmy's measures hav
31 A342 : I agree. But you have to give them some incentives (not appeasement).
32 Post contains links IAirAllie : I can't find the official Obama/Biden Campaign thread. So though this would fit better there I'll post it here. Jack Cafferty claims racism explains w
33 Mir : My point exactly. When you have executives that have no experience with the field in which they work, bad things are likely to go down. I'm not expec
34 Sv7887 : I see your point, but neither Presidential Candidate has a modicum of Economics background in their lifetime. Neither did Bill Clinton but he stocked
35 MaidensGator : The economy under Bush is nowhere near as bad as it was under Carter... And I am old enough to remember... Foreign policy, yes... But why should they
36 Post contains links Dreadnought : I thought this desrved its own thread, but the Mods though otherwise. So, reposted here... Obama Attempt To Delay Iraq Agreement Confirmed This popped
37 PSA727 : THANK YOU!!! Every "O-Bot" keeps going on about the evil Bush, but keep silent about Jimmy Carter. Everytime Obama speaks, I keep hearing Carter's be
38 StuckInCA : Hard to say. As for the media's silence, I think it's right on par with the silence regarding the GOP sending out misleading absentee ballots to Demo
39 Sv7887 : I thought an October Surprise is something out of the control of both parties that changes the equation substantially. In this case, the economy tank
40 Post contains links Mham001 : DNC Platform Committee Member Comes Out For McCain AP WASHINGTON - A top Hillary Rodham Clinton fundraiser threw her support behind Republican John Mc
41 Mir : Because the American economy and American foreign policy are intrinsically linked. Without a strong economy, our foreign policy is worth crap. As I p
42 Baroque : With all due respect Maidens you must be going on measures such as unemployment, inflation and GDP change TO DATE. By the time the fall out from the
43 Post contains links and images EA772LR : Why get so angry and personal so quick??       I though it was great when Palin mentioned 'Obama has had time to write 2 memoirs, but no one piec
44 Baroque : Oops, belay that suggestion. Now you need a couple of years oil import moneys to do the bailing. This must be getting serious!
45 Post contains links RJdxer : So Senator Biden had a foreign policy speech today in which he basically called for unilateral action against Pakistan if we have "actionable" intelli
46 StuckInCA : I believe you posted this in a different thread and at least some of it has been shown to be false. Not "shades of interpretation false" but just fla
47 RJdxer : Why is it when Dan Qualye misspelled "Potato" the press did not let it go for not only the rest of the election but the next 4 years as well. Yet Joe
48 Post contains links StuckInCA : And McCain? http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/39179-...be-problem-just-became-a-nightmare Plenty of material in his history too but I don't see any more
49 RJdxer : But nowhere near the volume of Biden. "Stand up Chuck" "If he tries to take away my barreta he's going to have a problem" "No coal plants in the U.S.
50 KC135TopBoom : " target=_blank>http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fo...srael You mean like this, from the third and fourth bullets? On Africa Fight Poverty: Obama an
51 Baroque : With those outside the US, we know everything is up to date in Kansas City and we know that Logie B transmitted TV "pictures" in 1925 so it follows t
52 DocLightning : There was a story on this. Basically, his brother has stated that he does not want any help or favoritism from Barak and that he will continue to liv
53 Baroque : What does Anthony Vincenzo "Tony” Baretta, a town in the Punjab or a guitar have to do with coal plants in the US?
54 Klima : I thought this was interesting. The Humane Society Legislative Fund endorses the Obama/Biden ticket. This marks the first time it has endorsed a Presi
55 AGM100 : Loved the Senators analogy yesterday ... the trickle down isn't trickling down its trickling up and thats why we uh uh find ourselves in this mess. It
56 Baroque : It is not opening the door that is the problem, it is how it was opened and the lack of controls on what happened next. Giving everyone a million dol
57 DL021 : Except that the people who put that plan into action refused to modify or reform it when it was becoming apparent that the loans were unsupportable.
58 Baroque : I was not and I thought that would be clear. I was just pointing out that with skill you could make any policy a disaster. I think old Mugabe would s
59 Post contains links Aaron747 : The current PotUS was the first person to use the word 'panic' in this whole affair in Wednesday's address. Tell that to the sitting President. All b
60 Baroque : There you go Sv, according to Aaron's video, you have an invitation to CNN. We await the video of that with interest.
61 EA772LR : Hey that's just the liberals motto..."Do as I say, not as I do" The party of clowns...the DNC: the Do Nothing Coalition. Of course because Barney 'Fi
62 Aaron747 : Oh yippee, more name-calling from yet another shill. Thanks for playing. Right, because the conservatives of the '50s and '60s who lobbied for establ
63 RJdxer : Except when private enterprise is threatened by the government with investigation and sanction as they were in the late '90s by the Clinton Justice D
64 AirCop : If I recall right, the Republicans were in control of Congress during this time period, so why are you blaming Frank and Dodd?
65 RJdxer : Because Frank and Dodd had the media's ear and would have made any attempt to reign in the two F's look as if once again somehow the President had it
66 Post contains links EA772LR : No problem. I just call it how it is! That's right champ The Republicans never envisaged having financial institutions the size of Fannie/Freddie giv
67 Mir : And yet if he were helping his half brother in Kenya, you'd be crying that he's helping Kenyans instead of helping Americans. No-win for him. -Mir
68 AirCop : Boy this is really out there. Same father different families..just like McCain's father in law left e one daughter $100 million in his will and the o
69 L-188 : Why are you hold his late father-in-law's will against him?
70 Aaron747 : Sorry, that's simply not a credible response, ancillary mention of the current inept Congress or not.
71 Post contains links RJdxer : You can call it spin all you want but that does not change the fact that it is true. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/09/20080919-15.html
72 AirCop : I'm not, but if KC going to use the crazy half-brother thing on Obama, then everything is on the table. " target=_blank>http://online.wsj.com/article
73 RJdxer : Correct which is why I have consistently said the Republicans got what they deserved in '06. They abandoned conservative principle. Conservative fina
74 Post contains links AirCop : And this is the same WSJ that accepted an ad that McCain won the debate? Since Murdoch purchased the paper, it's reputation has gone into the gutter.
75 RJdxer : Can't watch youtube at work. As I figured, can't dispute the facts so dispute the source.
76 L-188 : Yup, and now he is "Fixing" the system... Sort of reminds of the Ted's in Officespace, "Fixing the glitch" with Milton's paycheck.
77 PSA727 : Actually, no. There was a bill in the a Senate Finance Commitee 5 years ago, to help re-structure the FMs. The Republicans voted for it the Democrats
78 Post contains links JakeOrion : Ahhh Obama's policies: http://www.kmov.com/video/index.html?nvid=285793&shu=1 Starting already. Infringement of free speech begins even before he's el
79 DocLightning : The Media don't run the country, contrary to what Conservatives would have us believe. Until two years ago, the GOP had the unprecedented advantage o
80 RJdxer : Sure, nobody reads or listens to what they say, no matter how spun the story is. If you don't have the votes to bust a filibuster in the Senate, you
81 StuckInCA : Are you including conservatives in this assessment?
82 RJdxer : Of course, reference the Fox "poll" you posted in the other thread.
83 Post contains links AirCop : Looks to me, they loved the Republicans just has much. http://www.startribune.com/politics/...DUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUJ
84 PSA727 : Many Companies and PACs give to both parties, big deal. Give an example of when the Democrats tried to reform Freddie and Fannie. Was that a pin that
85 RJdxer : So how much longer will it be before Sen. Obama is forced to come out and throw ACORN under the bus to get elected as he has had to do with his Pastor
86 StuckInCA : I'm not sure we can yet. Clearly there have been some problems, but what's the data for this sort of error in other registration drives? What about t
87 Post contains links RJdxer : Please, now nine states are investigating. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...on/s_592407.html?source=rss&feed=1 http://www.nypost.com/seven/1009
88 StuckInCA : It definitely looks problematic, I'm only suggesting that it might be too early to make conclusions. Do you have a (somewhat) moderate source of info
89 Aaron747 : Then if Obama is really for change, he'll stand up tomorrow and demand that all responsible turn themselves in and apologize for defrauding the votin
90 RJdxer : Can you name even one other organization that is under such scrutiny and has so obviously committed fraud anywhere in the country? There are plenty t
91 StuckInCA : Who knows. I think he should when it comes to ACORN. Will McCain? Is it not possible that there's plenty of fraud from right leaning organizations? M
92 RJdxer : Care to name even one organzation that Senator McCain worked for? Where is the picture of the guy with tinfoil hat on? Has Blackbird hacked your pass
93 Post contains links StuckInCA : You're exhausting. I said it was far fetched. My entire point is that we don't have evidence that anything ACORN may have done is systematic and inte
94 RJdxer : They have hired felons to help run the voter registration drive. A quick google search will turn up convictions and investigations of fraud going bac
95 DocLightning : And why should he? You don't swing at a ball in the dirt. All this stuff is hurting McCain and Palin. The press are responding to their allegations w
96 PSA727 : Maybe Karl Rove gave the Obama campaign the $800K dollars that the Obama campaign later gave to ACORN for a "Get Out The Vote" drive. Don't you find
97 Post contains links MD80fanatic : What about Obama's membership in the Socialist New Party? http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gla...ama-membership-socialist-new-party With an independen
98 MD80fanatic : Looks like tomorrow's polls will show Obama falling like the NYSE. Drudge's headline tonight is "WASH TIMES Friday: Obama secretly tried to sway Iraqi
99 AirCop : Don't get to excited there MD80..Tomorrow the first report on Trooper Gate comes out, for a sneak preview from tomorrow (10/10/08) paper :http://www.n
100 MD80fanatic : Troopergate vs. Treason .......it should be good day.
101 Aaron747 : ^ Who honestly will care about any of that minutiae anymore once the Dow goes below 8,000?? Get real. At one point in Tokyo this morning, the Nikkei w
102 Baroque : Are you sure you got the sign right MD80f? Tricky things these negative numbers! Or as a brilliant journo from Sydney once remarked to a sitting Prim
103 RJdxer : The ball is level and on the inside. He worked for them, his judgement is tied to their actions no different than the lefts assertions that VP Cheney
104 AirCop : Sorry guy but this is old news..how you can equate this to treason is beyond me. From the article in the Washington Times: At the same time the Bush
105 Post contains links AGM100 : Nice little endorsement for Sen Obama Oh man ! Sen Obama does not need this . http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=77539
106 MD80fanatic : Okay....so it is beyond you. No biggie. We are at war in Iraq. A US senator "secretly" is bargaining with the Iraqis to countermand the authority of
107 Post contains links Dreadnought : http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008...ought-to-sway-iraqis-on-bush-deal/ At the same time the Bush administration was negotiating a still elusive ag
108 PSA727 : " target=_blank>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId...77539 Well, he should know, they do live in the same neighborhood together. That's got to be o
109 AirCop : Still working the Logan Act, there Dreadnought? How many cases have been brought forward by the Justice Department in the 200+ plus years it's been on
110 PSA727 : Yes, but wouldn't the President be giving the Senate that treaty first? Obama should have taken this up with GWB if he was so concerned, or brought t
111 AirCop : Wouldn't that be similar to McCain telling us that he was sending Sen. Graham his good buddy from CT to Georgia? I was out of the country for a month
112 RJdxer : Since Sen. Obama has no real executive experience to speak of, we have to look at past judgements and associations to figure out how he wil possibly
113 AirCop : What executive experience does Senator McCain have? Ayers was not his close friend, they just happen to be on the same committee. Have to checked on
114 PSA727 : Absolutely. But don't automatically assume that it was Annenberg himself. Just because someone sets up an endowment or foundation doesn't mean that s
115 Post contains links AirCop : Just off the press from Alaska; a 12-0 bipartisan vote to release the Troopergate investigation: http://www.adn.com/palin/story/552393.html Then we ha
116 RJdxer : Commander of a training squadron in the Navy. Vice President public relations of the beer distributorship his wife owns. Not much, but more than Sen.
117 Post contains links AirCop : Okay here's the entire report all 263 pages of it, in short they found that the Gov abused her power. http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/10/...report.so
118 RJdxer : And of course you missed the important point to try and score a cheap point. Finding Number Two I find that although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire T
119 AirCop : Wonder why you didn't post Finding #1? So much for her telling the truth. Give me a break. Where is the executive experience in this, considering he
120 RJdxer : Because it is suplanted by Finding #2 which says that she was acting within her power to fire Monegan. Name Sen. Obama's experience, any executive ex
121 MD80fanatic : Hmmm.....Newsweak. I stand corrected. LOL
122 Sv7887 : These polls are all over the place. Real Clear Politics has Obama up around 6 which I think is representative of how things stand at the moment. The
123 AirCop : What is every headline? Alaska Legislative Probe Finds Palin Misused Power.. Did she have the power to fire Monegan without cause; of course she did.
124 Post contains links StasisLAX : I wonder how Obama/Biden will use this event to put Sarah Palin even more on the hotseat then she already is... Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27
125 Baroque : Hey folks, could I mention the title of this thread? "Obama/Biden Plans & Policies" It is not about Palin, talking to Maliki is in, rubbish about tre
126 Post contains images RJdxer : I remember this headline too.... I read the pertinent parts. Nowhere is any reprimand, criminal action, or even censure mentioned. The recommendation
127 Baroque : And that relates to Obama/Biden policies in what way? It is not an Obama/Palin ticket you know!
128 AirCop : Really, you weren't alive then. Nor would there, since this is the investigator report. It wasn't prepared by a legislative committee. Any charging a
129 Sv7887 : To be honest Alan, I think it is out of anyone's hands now...You can't control for investor irrationality. People are rattled..I was speaking to my F
130 Baroque : It is out of control - that is clear - but it should not be out of control, that is also clear. Unless we have suddenly decided to live life accordin
131 Usair320 : I agree with you. Carter's economy was one of the worst we had, but so is Bush's. I plan on voting for the DEM. ticket next month. I voted for the hi
132 RJdxer : Yet there it is. I also remember seeing the headline that said Roosevelt was dead. Marvelous thing paper, it lasts for years and years. Virtually eve
133 AirCop : Doesn't matter, this report will be in every paper this weekend, and a subject for Sunday's talk shows (unless they were taped Friday), in short the
134 RJdxer : According to whom? The story has already been sublimated by GM/Chrysler talks, the G7, Rezko's sentencing being delayed while he talks, and Obama act
135 PSA727 : Actually, this strengthens her argument. She got rid of an insubordinate, "at will"employee. And by the way, the report mentions that the trooper fir
136 Post contains links Dreadnought : Now that everyone knows (or should know) that policies pushing home loans on people who could not afford it was the cause of this mess we are in now,
137 Baroque : I don't think you can talk about Carter's economy and W's in the same sentence, the fallout from the present mess will be months in coming. This is n
138 RJdxer : That's right, keep playing the numbers, sooner or later the odds will favor you. But no blame to a couple of Congresses, where the purse lies, in pas
139 Baroque : Quite the contrary (nice to know who it was ) last years the scenario was not so good, but some of the numbers were holding up. Certainly, it was far
140 Dreadnought : Did you see who organized the forum? ACORN. Yes, I would. At least all those that are politically oriented, which is most of them They have nothing u
141 Baroque : If you can find where I complained about oil executives being consulted I will be interested to know about it. However you will find me on the record
142 Dreadnought : When their interests run diametrically opposed to those of the taxpaying public, sure. Tell me, would you invite a bunch of neo-nazis to a racial rel
143 RJdxer : By the standard definition we still have not entered recession. That will obviously change starting with the economic numbers this past quarter and t
144 Dreadnought : And she has stated before her desire to reimpose the so-called Fairness Doctrine to silence critics such as Limbaugh, and I'm sure she will find a wa
145 Post contains links Baroque : Of course you still have the technical definition on your side but nothing else, nothing else at all. The EMPEROR really has no clothes. Take a look,
146 RJdxer : Gosh, I'd hate to depend on the rules. Which were less than 5% of the entire market. Not enough to push the entire economy into recession. By whose m
147 Post contains links Baroque : Ahem, history now does not seem to be on your side. The credit crisis was due to the foreclosures, the projected foreclosures, and the opacity of the
148 Post contains links RJdxer : You're right, it was far less than that. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...ncial/f031351D30.DTL&feed=rss.news The national foreclosure rate last
149 Baroque : Ahem, let us see, 0.2% in one month. 13 months later, it could well be approaching 5% unless of course, the foreclosures unforeclose in the world of
150 Dreadnought : I have yet to hear him say "We have to stop government programs pushing mortgages to people who cannot afford them", which would indeed solve the lon
151 Sv7887 : GM has been run into the ground with piss poor product, awful experimentation of technology that wasn't ready (GM 350 Diesel, Touch Screens in 1987,
152 Baroque : Not at all, but it is possible that a better health system might have taken some of that load from companies similar to GM. What I was more suggestin
153 Dreadnought : In that I would agree, and this is where Obama and McCain part company. Obama wants to oblige companies to provide coverage, whereas McCain appears t
154 Post contains links RJdxer : Not at all. The home mortgage market, as pushed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with the U.S. department of Justice in the late 90's, groups lik
155 Superfly : GM makes excellent products. Their problem is not in the quality of their vehicles. Those hastily decisions were made to keep up with government mand
156 Post contains links RJdxer : And now the the truth begins to leak out. http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10.../obama-plumber-plan-spread-wealth/ "Your new tax plan is going to tax
157 Post contains links RJdxer : Thank God Jesse Jackson is not a part of Sen. Obama's team. If even half of this is true the next 4 years will be a true disaster. http://www.nypost.c
158 Post contains links Md80fanatic : Look who's for NObama.... Fidel Castro Hugo Chavez Louis Farrakhan Who needs enemies? This fellow understands ..... the truth has set him free. http:/
159 StuckInCA : Your interpretation of someone's prognostication. How useful
160 RJdxer : If the Arab states still aligned against Israel percieve that it no longer has the full fledged backing of the United States, if Israel percieves tha
161 StuckInCA : So let me get this straight. Somebody says what he thinks might happen if Obama is elected and then you say what you think might happen if that happe
162 Post contains links and images MD80fanatic : Now this is really rich ..... and we wonder where the Obama youth came from? Obama "product placement" in 8th grader's school textbook, 15 pages worth
163 RJdxer : I never asked you to say a word. That was by your own choosing. Perhaps that is why I prefaced my comments with: A read of the article would tell you
164 Post contains links MD80fanatic : Hofstra University, the host of the final Presidential debate, holds mock slave auctions. {Eek} http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/mccain.obama.debate.2.840
165 Dreadnought : It's nothing new. It's been done with Hitler, Kim, Mao, Lenin, Castro. (also note that every one of these were socialists). No American president has
166 AGM100 : Of course they are , can you imagine if they would have caught McCain saying something like ... We need to cut taxes on the rich ..... it would be ru
167 RJdxer : Oh yeah, it's completely buried in the mainstream media. Neil Cavuto had the guy on his show yesterday and he (the plumber) was just devastating in h
168 Post contains links STT757 : Powell endorses Obama for president The direction the Republican party has been heading has turned many moderates away, I would be one of them. I vote
169 RJdxer : I posted this in the other forum but it rightfully belongs here. I listened to Colin Powells statement. 1. They are both United States Senators. The a
170 Charles79 : Not sure if that's even an issue, RJ. To be honest, most members of the Senate don't deserve the title in the first place, but that's another issue.
171 RJdxer : Of course but it is a matter of respect deserved and earned. I'm sure that when he was in the service he expected to be referred to as "General" once
172 Post contains links STT757 : He's a Four Star General, if he wants to call these guys by their names it's more appropriate and more polite than Senator call calling Senator Obama
173 PSA727 : People keep saying this but she is drawing huge crowds at her events. 50k at an event near Orlando a couple of weeks ago. 30K in Richmond last week.
174 RJdxer : In the Washington D.C. food chain the Secretary of State outranks a 4 star general. Regardless it doesn't change the salutation that both men deserve
175 Charles79 : Fair enough. I still see it as if he didn't mean anything by it and that it just was a lapse of memory, however if he keeps doing it (calling Obama S
176 RJdxer : That's correct but as they have shown in the past, the true conservative christian right is willing to sit on their hands and not vote thus taking th
177 Aaron747 : It's absolutely baffling that they did not do this - all conservative action groups, pundits, and commentators have the same opinion about it: Dumb d
178 Charles79 : Ok you got a point there, I guess I didn't look at it from a campaign strategist point of view, only as a voter. I have to agree with that, by restri
179 Post contains links Dreadnought : Here is an excellent article: http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/081017light.html Would the Last Honest Reporter Please Turn On the Lights? By Orson Scott C
180 Post contains images Dreadnought : P.S. This picture was apparently taken at Hayes and Octavia in San Francisco on Sunday.
181 DocLightning : That's just as disgusting as the people who deified Bush. Eww.
182 Charles79 : True. Neither side can claim higher moral ground in here, there are still plenty of Bush fans who claim that he has not erred at all in 8 years at th
183 AirCop : You're using as a source, something that was published in the Rhinoceros Times, a far right throw away rag, whom has a problem dealing with fact or f
184 Dreadnought : So what? I think the article is excellent and very factual. It is an opinion piece, and I think your elitism is showing if you say that anyone not fr
185 StuckInCA : So is RJdxer an elitist too? Yesterday he said I lost credibility for posting an article (a factual one) from the Huffington Post. Does it work both
186 AGM100 : [ How ?, she has not hurt McCain one bit ..... Making the other side nervous though.... and thats good The Article is spot on ... case closed
187 Dreadnought : I have not seen the article you mention, so I can't judge whether it was factual or not. While much of the Huff Post is garbage, sometimes they do ge
188 Post contains links DocLightning : I don't think they're very nervous at this point. They were at first and then as soon as they figured out who she was, they calmed down and kicked so
189 RJdxer : Nope, works both ways. I agree that the author of the article is dubious at best. He is known for his works of science fiction so this is nothing mor
190 Post contains links StuckInCA : That may depend on who you ask... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27297013/ Now, Palin’s qualifications to be president rank as voters’ top concern a
191 Aaron747 : I want to throw up. Then again, that picture is still better than other horrors one can usually find at Hayes and Octavia! Those people are nothing l
192 Post contains links WunalaYann : Let us not forget the tens, if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Iraqi_deaths
193 MD80fanatic : Funny thing is Palin has more time "behind the wheel", aka experience, than Obama does. She has a history more broad than Obama could hope to muster.
194 WunalaYann : May I suggest that it probably depends on your definition of "bouncing harmlessly away"? Hasn't the Republican ticket taken a substantial dive in the
195 MD80fanatic : There is this other guy, named John, on the ticket. He bombed 2 debates and made a good stab at a third, and the economy experienced a steep drop in
196 StuckInCA : It's really hard to know how to respond to you when you are clearly not receptive to logical argument or sane reasoning.
197 11Bravo : Your points here are an excellent summation of the Palin effect, well said. RUL
198 Dreadnought : That is exactly what she stands for. Her religious views have never translated into policy, so should be a non-issue. I ask you to use the same stand
199 Post contains links MD80fanatic : O's agenda is so 'gay' - according to Matt Barber http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78739 What are we to make of this? A hat? A broach?
200 AGM100 : I hope they are not , that is good. Remember Kerry was ahead by 8-14 2 weeks out as well. Yes they are , and they should be.... Sen Obama has the ent
201 AGM100 : I hope they are not , that is good. Remember Kerry was ahead by 8-14 2 weeks out as well. Yes they are , and they should be.... Sen Obama has the ent
202 AirCop : Sorry, I didn't remember that, but I did pull up the Gallup poll for this time period in 2004. October 22-24, 2004 Bush 51% Kerry 46% Nader 1% Other
203 AGM100 : Your correct , my error. I was looking at some AP info last night. In some polls it was wider but over all the count was within margin ..very close.
204 DocLightning : She's both, unfortunately. And a hypocrite, as well. I'm sorry, but if she makes a public platform out of "abstinence-only" education, then her daugh
205 AGM100 : So if I volunteer at the school and am vocal about "Saying No To Meth" .. (which I do) ...and my son ends up a meth head ... that makes me a hypocrit
206 DocLightning : You know, there's a difference between sex and drugs. The difference is the following: sex is a normal and natural part of human function. In fact, I
207 AGM100 : [quote=DocLightning,reply=206]You know, there's a difference between sex and drugs[/quo It is a good point and true ... however my kids get a simple l
208 DocLightning : And that's wrong. And the fact that Sarah Palin supports abstinence-only education when her own daughter got pregnant makes her a hypocrite.
209 PSA727 : If she had a strict birth control policy and her daughter still got pregnant, would she still be a hypocrite? BTW, Palin is not opposed to birth cont
210 Mdsh00 : You are saying that if she were for birth control and her daughter still got pregnant? Well no not really it wouldn't make Palin a hypocrite. But...h
211 DocLightning : She IS opposed to Plan B and she IS opposed to teaching people about birth control at the start of their sexual lives. I don't think any mainstream c
212 WunalaYann : While I hope I have not gone through my entire life yet, count me into this category! If you do not mind me asking, do you bring up contraception and
213 Rara : "Hypocrite", why? Quite the opposite I would think, she stands firmly to her conviction. If she had publicly stood for abstinence-only education, but
214 Aaron747 : Find me a single quote where I said I'm voting for Obama. I've spent the last week harping on Obama supporters for failing to pressure him for detail
215 MD80fanatic : Repost. She "probably" would have had her daughter on OCPs. Ass-u-me? Why do you always portray Palin, and people of faith in general, as ignorant bac
216 MD80fanatic : How about a few examples of absolute truth: abstinence-only [practice] increases teenage freedom. abstinence-only [practice] [eliminates] teenage pre
217 Aaron747 : All types of sex education don't work for decreasing teenage pregnancy or sexual activity in general. Not in this day and age anyway. Sex education i
218 WunalaYann : I agree, although you could turn the argument around and look at it from a perspective that tends to portray sex as not only for adults. I think more
219 Mir : I don't think it makes her a hypocrite as much as it makes a perfect example of just how effective abstinence-only sex education is at reducing pregn
220 DocLightning : Absolute truth: ABSTINENCE-ONLY EDUCATION INCREASES STD's, AND TEENAGE PREGNANCY. That is a fact. Because there is NO WAY to stop teenagers from havi
221 MD80fanatic : You might be right. Teaching kids since 3rd grade about the penis and vagina, anus, fisting, oral, etc tends to make kids curious as to why they are
222 AGM100 : With my 16 year old , I talk about the whole program . But the rule in my house is abstinence. I tell them about my sister who had sex and got pregna
223 StuckInCA : You think most teen pregnancies happen in "mushy liberal" households?
224 Post contains links MD80fanatic : Seems Barack is well on his way to selecting another "genius" for his posse..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...r-Britain-Obama-wins-election.
225 Santosdumont : Which, speaking as a non-parent, is something to be applauded. Which, speaking as a non-parent, I think is entirely reasonable. Would that all kids g
226 AirCop : Again, I agree as a parent that is reasonable rule, and the fact that you share your sister's experience is also very responsible. But teenagers are
227 Post contains links Oa260 : A good tool to look at over the elections : http://news.sky.com/skynews/Interactive-Graphics/US-Election-Map
228 AGM100 : No ... but all a parent can do is inform them of the rules... clearly. I am not naieve .. I know that I only have so much control over passion and fr
229 DocLightning : There you have it, folks.
230 PSA727 : Why are people worried about Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter? I am much more concerned about Biden's recent discussion about how other nation's leader
231 DocLightning : Because I'm a specialist in adolescent medicine and teenage pregnancy is one of my big crusades. We will be able to DRASTICALLY decrease the welfare
232 MD80fanatic : Yes, I have it folks. I know that, in the absence of highly-inappropriate sexual curriculum at an elementary school level, your "facts" would lean th
233 MD80fanatic : And we'll decrease teenage pregnancy by instructing kids in all the fantastic sexual positions they should, of course, avoid. Makes sense. We should
234 Santosdumont : Well said. Because her mother is the poster child du jour for "family values." I can only imagine what that would be like...it reminds me of that old
235 AGM100 : Wow this is so true .. The problem is how does government do this ? The role belongs to parents and good doctors like you lightning IMO.
236 Tugger : He is saying that it is because of his "perceived inexperience" not that he won;t be able to handle it. After watching this campaign, both the nomina
237 DocLightning : You know it? Prove it. FACTS, MD80, not theories. FACTS. Numbers. EVIDENCE. I predict that you cannot produce any. (BTW, you're arguing against me in
238 MD80fanatic : I would agree, except parents are NOT being told what their kids are being exposed to in class. The parents cannot do their part when their authority
239 Post contains links PSA727 : color="#9A9DA0">Quoting DocLightning (Reply 231): We will be able to DRASTICALLY decrease the welfare rolls in this country if we can decrease teenage
240 Tugger : But there is no secret as to what is being taught. At all. Parents can ask their kids for one, that's the first and best place to start. Parent's can
241 StuckInCA : That's a fine strategy that MD uses over and over. I don't think the government should make it illegal to smoke cigarettes so I must be pro-smoker. N
242 MD80fanatic : Sure there is, I have seen it firsthand. My last girlfriend (of 10 years) is a top-level elementary school teacher, with bi-lingual and special needs
243 MD80fanatic : And it works. Intelligent beings need -all- the facts available to make the most proper choice. Abstinence-only education and creationism being infor
244 StuckInCA : That has nothing to do with the point I was making. Interesting statement though. Read it a few times and think about what you're saying. "Abstinence
245 MD80fanatic : You got me there. I can make gaffes just like the best of them. Of course I meant "abstinence" without the "only". If you read what I wrote closely,
246 StuckInCA : Fair enough. Mind that advising abstinence and "abstinence-only" sex education are not the same thing.
247 Post contains links MD80fanatic : Like this one: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-opening-of-faith-based-pharmacy/ (Excellent idea BTW, along the same lines as a non-smoking e
248 Rara : The question is, would I trust you to give your children a full and adequate sex education that enables them to handle their sexuality responsibly an
249 MD80fanatic : So, if you had the ability, you would deny me the right to raise my offspring by my own standards? I guess you feel that, until I receive a sexually
250 DocLightning : So you only say that there should be anti-homosexual information and anti-sex information? Got a newsflash. Sex is a part of life. The vast majority
251 Post contains links WunalaYann : And to add fodder to the discussion: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081024/ap_on_re_us/high_school_hiv Education? Prevention?
252 DocLightning : I like the Catholic Church's approach. Condoms are bad, even if they stop HIV. Even in Africa where 30% of people have HIV people shouldn't use condo
253 Post contains links MD80fanatic : -Your- version of the facts. Here's someone else's version..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ven-new-Government-curriculum.html Check out t
254 DocLightning : No no no. THE facts. There's only version of the facts. The comments are the same as yours. Brainless, emotive, full of falsehoods, and completely il
255 MD80fanatic : Data is data, facts are how you choose to assemble and present the data. A report is still "factual" even if you intentionally leave out a portion of
256 Mt99 : You do realize that the era with highest teen pregnancy rate was the 50's right? Where girls were sent to "finishing school" for 9 months..
257 MD80fanatic : You're using the same technique I just castigated Doc about. Using "data" that was custom assembled, 60 years ago, for the purpose of trying to sway A
258 Mt99 : Uh huh.. Look at Hanna Montana.. Look at Disney movies like High School Musical.. those are more far more encourage teen sex than having Miss. Fields
259 MD80fanatic : For once we agree. Two pieces of celluloid that the world could easily do without.
260 StuckInCA : But the farther back in time you go, likely the younger the average mother's age. In the early 1900's people weren't being taught about fisting in ki
261 Rara : Reading your claims, which get more ludicrous with every post you make, I somehow get the impression that you have a problem with sexuality as a whol
262 PSA727 : If you think that those programs encourage teen sex, then what exactly do most of the programming on MTV, VH-1, and the CW do? Add narcissism to the
263 DocLightning : "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Especially to a child.
264 Mt99 : It just a different age group. Disney pick them up in th 10-15 age group with HSM and Hanna Montana, the delivers them to MTV, and CW for the rest of
265 DocLightning : That's great but what do you do with the baby? My answer: "If you are under the age of 18 and you father or mother a child, you may not keep the chil
266 Henkybaby : Oh, you Americans are so funny...
267 Superfly : Lowrider: From the other thread I think just about any Democratic candidate would be ahead of McCain, even if Biden was the nominee.
268 Post contains links RJdxer : Looks like Dash has a new nickname. Hidin Biden. I wonder if he knows just how deep in the crypt he will be buried if he gets to be the VP? What a ch
269 PSA727 : Well it looks like that 250K marker for Obama's tax increase is being lowererd to 150K according to Biden (it wasn't a gaffe either). Somehow, I think
270 RJdxer : Yeah, I saw that in the news. It was only a matter of time. Right after January 20th we will start hearing from the Obama administration that the sit
271 Superfly : Are you admitting that you are on the losing side in this election?
272 RJdxer : I've been saying that we would have a democratic party member in the White House for over 2 years now, where have you been?
273 Dreadnought : Oh really? Obama is only 2 or 3 percent ahead (likely voters - registered voters doesn't mean squat this late), and to achieve that: - he had to renn
274 RJdxer : Well said and for the most part true. I might disagree on the professional campaign only because the media is more than willing to drag him across th
275 Superfly : Hmmm, shouldn't that read; "Obama has organized the most professionally run campaign in history"? I've been saying that dozens of times. You really t
276 Dreadnought : No question, Obama's campaign has been extremely well managed. They have made very few mistakes. The only mistakes on the Obama camp are those occasi
277 Charles79 : Would you care to elaborate this statement? I'm serious, I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here. He's getting votes because of his race,
278 Superfly : Amen!
279 RJdxer : No, because he didn't. He laid out what he wanted and hired Plouffe, Alexrod, and Rouse to do the day to day work. Those three are the ones running t
280 Dreadnought : What makes you think he organized it. He's the star. Producers and directors behind him pull the strings. That's what campaign managers do. Let's see
281 Dreadnought : I'm saying he's gaining votes. The whole 'white guilt' thing. I know more than one woman who will vote for him just for that.
282 Superfly : Sounds like a real scientific sample. I thought you had an better understanding of politics than this. Blacks usually vote Democratic around 90% and
283 Dreadnought : But turnout appears to be extremely high. That makes the difference. What can I say - met him at a pawnshop trying to hock a guitar.
284 Cpd : These are the hallmarks of someone who will be a better leader. You could have the greatest campaign people, but it counts for nothing if you stand u
285 RJdxer : And that is the difference. The black turnout to vote has historically been pretty low. Not the case this time and they aren't voting for McCain so w
286 Charles79 : I actually wondered about this myself during the primary season where he ran against a much more experienced candidate who knows what it takes to win
287 Cpd : What it tells me is that they are thinking, here is someone who might make a difference, someone who doesn't appear to be another member of the old m
288 RJdxer : Reagan put on a polished performance and there are those here that will still say he was a bad President. Being able to speak well, or looking good,
289 Superfly : RJdxer: So why are you griping since there isn't a significant change in how Blacks vote? If there was a Latino candidate running, there would be a la
290 Superfly : BTW, Obama is not trying to a Black leader. He is striving to be an American leader. You need to look past his skin color James.
291 MBMBOS : I think this is a weak argument. Traditionally blacks vote for Democratic candidates in high percentages. It is entirely realistic to say McCain won'
292 Charles79 : I'm not saying his race did not help, of course it did, but it alone by itself did not carry him through. Would he be where he is right now had he be
293 DocLightning : Know why, though? Because we know that, no matter how religious he is, he's not going to try to drive his religion down anyone's throat because Judai
294 Dreadnought : He's been talking about virtually nothing but the economy, and the dangers of a redistributionist. Because she has been slammed hard by the MSM. If s
295 DocLightning : What is with this conspiracy theory about the media? I haven't heard that yet. Give me some examples.
296 StuckInCA : That's pretty weak sauce you're serving.
297 Post contains links Dreadnought : Do ou really live in the US? In June, Obama plays the race card: “They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. He’s young and inexperienced a
298 Solarix : Why did Obama (during the debates) say tax breaks for everyone that makes less than $250,000, but tonight he said tax breaks for people making less th
299 DocLightning : So you hold Obama responsible for what everyone else says about him and for encouraging people to debate publicly? Are you really interested in being
300 Dreadnought : Obama himself made one of the worst attacks, and he has never reudiated the others AFAIK, so yes. And Biden the other day said $150,000. Signs of thi
301 Post contains links RJdxer : Nope, I would say Hillary lost the nomination because she too ran a hideous campaign. Her problem was in thinking she had it sewn up before it actual
302 AirCop : Obama was not a US Senator from Illinois when he gave the speech at the 2004 DNC. And how would expect her to prepare for the her medication? Do you
303 RJdxer : By saving money for it or working to find a suplemental program. Her husband worked for the railroad, that is a good paying job even if you are a jan
304 AirCop : Actually, I watched the whole program when it came on at 5pm our time (cable)..It's funny that Obama was pointing out serious issues that effect the
305 RJdxer : By pointing to two examples of individuals wanting something they don't need and needing something they should have taken care of long ago. Very fine
306 Post contains links RJdxer : Of course those supporting Sen. Obama would never resort to dirty tricks or intimidation. http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...ries/2008/10/29/joe30
307 Post contains links RJdxer : I guess Sen. Obama offered up more of the same. A bunch of nothing. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D944H6EO0&show_article=1
308 AirCop : Let see, we had a Ford worker that had his hours cut in half due to no fault of his; a retired couple that raised six children and put them through c
309 Charles79 : RJ, I guess here is where we both differ in ideology and why I have ultimately decided not to support the Republican ticket this year. It's the noble
310 Dreadnought : Since socialism reduces the material penalty for failure (whether by lack of luck, motivation or whatever), how would socialism not simply cause peop
311 WunalaYann : If you look at regions like Scandinavia, and to a lesser extent Germany, Canada, Japan and the Benelux, higher taxes on labour do not prevent prosper
312 PSA727 : Sounds like that's kind of a result of Ford's decision to focus more on producing SUVs instead of more cars like their Focus model. But what is Obama
313 Charles79 : Why is it that in this country quality of life is always equated to material possessions and money? What our country is clamoring for is quality of l
314 Aaron747 : Hence, the beliefs set firmly in place by one of McCain's stated heroes, Teddy Roosevelt: "At many stages in the advance of humanity, this conflict b
315 RJdxer : Gosh, I've had all my hours cut, several times as a matter of fact, and I've never asked for or recieved a single unemployment check. Fancy that. Who
316 Aaron747 : Very much so - and among the primary reasons I couldn't vote for either of these characters. Both talk of personal accountability and responsibility
317 Charles79 : Where did I say to take care of the ones who can take care of themselves? I clearly said to provide assistance to those who need it and obviously can
318 AirCop : Do you want a medal or something? Actually what do you know about my financial situation? You just don't have a clue. Giving to charities is way down
319 RJdxer : Incorrect. A socialist system seeks to even everyone by making those that excel give more to equalize those who don't. What is worse about that? A re
320 Baroque : Holy heck. Interesting thing is that with our socialised medical system, it would be difficult to get a stay for $500K for a week regardless of how s
321 StuckInCA : So... now you're on the right track (unwittingly I'm sure). How, exactly, do you figure that Obama's tax plan is socialist? Do you think that it will
322 Post contains links RJdxer : I didn't say I agreed with that. Tax rates go up depending on the week and whatever rolling average Sen. Obama decides on, somewhere between 150k and
323 StuckInCA : But don't the higher earners already pay a higher rate than the lower earners? Isn't there already an EIC? How is this the "beginning?" Either we're
324 Tugger : So we were a Socialist country during the Reagan era and the time prior to that? Just curious. Tugg
325 AirCop : Actually, no it was a government employer when the injury occurred...all toll 5 different procedures, I wouldn't want to guess what the total bill ha
326 PSA727 : It would be about 40% for Fed IncTax, 6.25% Social Security Tax (employee contribution), Medicare Tax (which is about 2% I believe), and then state a
327 RJdxer : Not this s--t again. The EIC is there to help people whose income falls below the poverty line. That is not socialist since as soon as your income re
328 StuckInCA : What's your lifetime maximum coverage? Many policies it's $1 million for the whole family. Lifetime. Sorry that your panties are in a knot. So, is th
329 AirCop : Just because your (and most private) insurance covers transplants doesn't mean that you would be eligible and your insurance company or transplant ce
330 Post contains links RJdxer : I'm good. I've made sure of that. Don't know anything about it since I don't live there. Regardless that is the State of Alaska. When someone propose
331 AirCop : See you're guessing..having worked for State Compensation Fund in California for awhile, after I graduated from college, I remember the payout being
332 RJdxer : Well since I don't live in the state you do that would be a given. Based on my experience Workers Comp rarely pays the initial bill. It is amended do
333 Post contains links AirCop : The way I read your posts, you're have the following behavior traits: -you're aggressive on behalf of authority -intolerant of other views -bullying
334 DocLightning : You know that if you present a fact in a misleading manner it's a lie, right? That's what you just did.
335 RJdxer : Exactly where is the untrue statement? Have or have not the NY Post, the Washington Times, and the Dallas Morning News been told they no longer have
336 Tugger : I was not asking to be difficult. I was simply trying to see what you consider socialism. And from your statement it appears that graduated taxes are
337 RJdxer : Correct. Government use of income taxation for the express purpose of redistribution is wrong. There is a lot of things I'd like to have but cannot a
338 DocLightning : The untruth is the implication that it was done BECAUSE they endorsed McCain. But that's OK, RJ. Feign innocence. I see through it. So do the rest of
339 Post contains links Dreadnought : Clearly that is exactly why they did it. After Joe the Plumber, we have Cory the Driller: http://stix1972.typepad.com/stix_blog/2008/10/meet-cory-the
340 RJdxer : And your proof that is wasn't done for that reason is?
341 Post contains links Mdsh00 : " target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ikO...i9yYk Yeah because there are no dimwit supporters of McCain/Palin right? Every Republican has
342 DocLightning : Did you read the link that was posted or are you still in that mode of being uninterested in such concepts as "truth" and "facts"? Wait, who am I tal
343 Rightrudder : Don't believe the liberal media.
344 RJdxer : Yes, I've even made reference to it in reply 335 which you obviously did not bother to read elsewise you would have read the following: which I could
345 MBMBOS : They need not provide any proof. They are not the ones making accusations. It's like asking a man for proof that he doesn't beat his wife. It's illog
346 PSA727 : Well it looks like the cost of Obama's Berlin escapade is quite large: $700,000 for sound, stage, and lighting. And then there's the cost of the free
347 AirCop : Source please..
348 PSA727 : Bill Richardson, speaking on behalf of the Obama campaign in a radio interview on Thursday (i believe).
349 Post contains links RJdxer : And the Obama campaign quickly put the wet blanket on that one. http://www.abqjournal.com/abqnews/in...content&task=view&id=9227&Itemid=2 Interesting
350 Charles79 : Well, if it's their money they can spend it whichever way they want, can't they? This is as ridiculous as the left arguing over Palin's wardrobe--it'
351 PSA727 : Yes, but this is Obama's mantra: Tax cuts for 95% of workers. Now I don't believe him for one second. Never in my lifetime has a Democrat President,
352 Charles79 : Likewise for McCain's "promise", where he intends to lower taxes across the board. Let's face it, in this election we are voting for the team less li
353 Dreadnought : You are right, with the exception of one wild card, if McCain wins. That is a reformation (or rather a reengineering) of government which McCain has
354 FlyPNS1 : Here's the problem with this. Palin's not competent enough to try and reengineer the federal gov't. She'll get eaten alive. Her schtick might work in
355 Dreadnought : You think she'd be alone? An administration includes thousands of people, and some of them would be dedicated to this. The VP simply chairs the group
356 Aaron747 : The RNC employs thousands of people yet they've completely failed to go after key groups of voters for at least the past five years. The McCain campa
357 Baroque : Absolutely Tugger, get tolls introduced on them ALL pronto. Think of the tax reductions you could release. None of this monopolistic ownership of tra
358 DocLightning : I voted for the team who I thought actually seemed interested in fixing the problem. I don't know if they'll succeed, but it's at least their goal to
359 Post contains links RJdxer : And now word that guns sales are spiking nationwide on fears of new gun restrictions if Sen. Obama is elected. I guess that's one way to fix the econo
360 Dreadnought : In the venture capital world where I know a lot of people, a lot of LPs (Limited Partners - the investors in venture funds) have announced their inte
361 FlyPNS1 : No, but someone has to provide a vision and leadership and Palin doesn't have it. If it was his goal to fix things, you would think he wouldn't have
362 Mdsh00 : Are you really afraid the boogeyman (Obama) is gonna come and take your Bible away from you?
363 Dc863 : Nah just my hard earned money.
364 Dreadnought : Says you. I think she does. In 2000 there was an estimated $15 billion invested in VC companies in the US. In early 2008, the numbers we saw were clo
365 StuckInCA : How was the average American doing in 2000? In 2008? I'd guess most people, if not considering life position based on age (in vs out of college, etc)
366 Post contains links Aaron747 : Peggy Noonan, and the Reagan generation, don't: But it's unclear whether she is Bushian or Reaganite. She doesn't think aloud. She just . . . says th
367 Post contains links RJdxer : And now how about this for change? Lets bankrupt an industry! http://www.wsaz.com/political/headlines/33726759.html The full version is here. http://w
368 Charles79 : That's pretty much what I did, and also voted based on ideology. I always stood closer to Obama because of his socialist ideals but he failed to clos
369 Post contains links N867DA : http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...i?f=/c/a/2008/11/02/MNTL13SU6S.DTL Your own source says it has been available to the public since it was done.
370 Post contains links FlyPNS1 : Based on what? Can you provide some support for this assertion? Here's what I found: http://www.nvca.org/ffax.html
371 Dreadnought : " target=_blank>http://www.nvca.org/ffax.html Just presentations I have sat in on, which include numbers from more than only NVCA members. It's a fuz
372 Post contains links Tugger : First: And second, if you listen to the whole of what he is saying, he is NOT saying he wants to bankrupt the coal industry, he is saying that if a c
373 RJdxer : I guess I have to make better use of the sarcasm smiley. And I'm all for that. But in essence again what he is doing is redistributing the wealth. In
374 Charles79 : Alright, guess I missed the joke! I think you have your response at the end of your statement..."as cost efficient as coal". Again, this is not about
375 RJdxer : Then that is just a good way to break the economy. We all saw what happened when gas shot up to $4.00 a gallon not to mention JetA prices going up as
376 Post contains links Baroque : I don't want a long tangential argument on the subject, but someone needs to look up mercury emissions from coal fired power stations and the high ji
377 Tugger : Actually you're wrong. Oil did not break the economy, the economy broke oil. Oil (gasoline) use remained essentially unchanged until the price began
378 Charles79 : There you have a point, you have to introduce environmentally friendly measures slowly so as to not destroy a particular industry on one blow. Going
379 RJdxer : You evidently haven't bought a lot of food lately. SUV's trucks, heavily horsepowered cars were all suffering way before the housing credit collapse
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