HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 934 times:
India once again hit by terror serial blasts....This time 5 in new Delhi....Two bombs were defused....Injured were civilians mainly family members on a saturday evening out.
Comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4677 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 882 times:
MEL,
This is similar to what happened in the UK first with the Bolsheviks and then with the IRA. As an Indian citizen, you have to ask what is the Indian Police Service doing to keep you safe from home-grown terrorists. Unfortunately, these incidents serve to rip asunder the secular nature of India by whipping up communal sentiments. For every Islamofascist, there seems to be an equally obnoxious Hindu fundamentalist waiting to exploit the situation - look at the recent anti-Christian riots in the East.
Perhaps India needs a very strong hand at the tiller, like a Sardar Patel instead of the brilliant but gentle PM it has now. I'd hate to see India blow an opportunity at economic growth because of domestic strife. Has the time come to give up Kashmir?
Ag92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 872 times:
Well it seems Operation Bad has been a success, and apparently the next targets are Bombay and Chennai.
Sad times for India these days if you ask me, we may be booming with our minds but we are going down a drain physically. Seems as if we are not getting anywhere.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 853 times:
Quoting Comorin (Reply 1): Perhaps India needs a very strong hand at the tiller
I think the UPA governments is much softer on terror compared to the previous NDA one.
But considering the Size & population of this vast country,its very difficult to tackle such strikes 100%....The Intelligence network needs to be fine tuned.
The odd part is cross border terrorists are trying to make it sound like its an internal issue by Indian terrorists by sending responsibility claiming mails just prior & post blasts,trying to divert the attention from cross border groups.
Quoting Comorin (Reply 1): Has the time come to give up Kashmir?
India is a Secular Democracy,where a muslim majority state exists...If there was no Kahmir valley,there would be no democratic INDIA.There is no question of bending down to terror after so many strikes.What remains is liberating the areas under POK.
The Targets are civilians including kids....Think of the mindset of those planting the explosives that strike at hospitals with Time delayed blasts to inflict max casualties....on poor people....people that just want a house/food for the day....because they are easy targets.
Quoting Ag92 (Reply 2):
Well it seems Operation Bad has been a success, and apparently the next targets are Bombay and Chennai.
With crowded cities in India its tough controlling every area.But something needs to be done.
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 60 Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 849 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3): Quoting Comorin (Reply 1):
Has the time come to give up Kashmir?
India is a Secular Democracy,where a muslim majority state exists...If there was no Kahmir valley,there would be no democratic INDIA.There is no question of bending down to terror after so many strikes.What remains is liberating the areas under POK.
Is it not the case that the "average" Kashmiri view is a plague on both Pakistan and India? That is certainly what I hear from ex-Kashimiris over here.
Which other states might try to secede if Kashmir was given at least a form of autonomy?
Just not having to impose order on Kashmir would be a good look for India.
Can you explain "If there was no Kahmir valley,there would be no democratic INDIA" ?
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 834 times:
Hawk- when analysing the set up of India's intelligence community it seems it's a bit over-complicating things..( I might be wrong but we are here to discuss..)
There a tons of different services who sooner or later will walk on each other feet.
Wouldn't it be easier to stream-line the number and command-structures to gain efficiency?
I don't imply they are not doing their job,but it seems an awful lot of officers who want their pride boosted by telling competing agencies that's their turf..
Le Figaro-by the way-reports that there have been some arrest made already tied to the most recent attacks ..
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 825 times:
Quoting Baroque (Reply 4): Can you explain "If there was no Kahmir valley,there would be no democratic INDIA" ?
If one is aware of the composition of INDIA.Its a Democracy consists of various states,religons,cultures,languages,climates,terrain & people.The very fact its a sucessfull democracy so many decades is a surprise in itself.
In a country where 75% population is Hindu,12% Muslim [2nd largest in the world],3% christian,then there are other communities too.
India chose to be Secular & democracy & the very fact that religon will be the basis for a country to be formed is against INDIA's thinking....Pakistan should never have been created....As in 1947 both countries [india & Pakistan] was created based on Religon.
If every nation/region was to be carved based on religon,there would be no democracy & no peace ever.
The Kashmir citizens are both Hindu & Muslim....Kashmir consists of Jammu,The valley,Ladakh & the POK.
The constitution of INDIA has declared that J&K is an Integral part of the country.And Religon can never be a basis of determining borders.
Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5): Wouldn't it be easier to stream-line the number and command-structures to gain efficiency?
A Central command is def needed.
Quoting Baroque (Reply 4): That is certainly what I hear from ex-Kashimiris over here.
Talk to the Kashmiris over here & you'll get different views...They want to run their business & tourism has finally put life into their jobs.Not sure about POK though.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 789 times:
Two Witnesses of the Culprits ....A Baloon selling small boy & the Autorickshaw driver who luckily escaped when the terrorists left a bomb in the vehicle & asked him to wait for them...They tried to eliminate the witness......
Hearing the stories of small kids Injured & lost loved ones.....all religons were affected here.
Why target a Childrens park?
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 764 times:
I've so far stayed out of this thread because part of my family resides in New Delhi; one of them was close to one of the blasts, but survived. I was seething enough that any post I made was likely to be overly emotional.
Hawk is right however. The current administration willfully dismantled the previous government's tough anti-terrorism laws in order to pander to the Muslim vote. This kind of political expediency is what cheapens the life of an Indian citizen, making it easy for these thugs to attack and then to get away.
Quoting Comorin (Reply 1): Has the time come to give up Kashmir?
The other side's argument has *never* been about Kashmir alone. Giving them *anything* will only be seen as weakness, and we'll face demands for more. The only response is to not only decline to give anything, but threaten to grab something of theirs if they keep up with their demands.
It's got nothing to do with democracy or anything else. If they want it they can fight us, defeat us and then take it. But they're not good enough to beat us - we are a far more powerful country. Simple as that.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 726 times:
Quoting Baroque (Reply 9): You might need to slow down a bit and explain who or what "they" are.
I like barf's method not to name not nice names
The Unfriendly Neighbour who sends accross trained persons to attack innocent civilians with support from a few misguided elements in the country & tries to post it publically as an internal matter.........THEY are them.
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 60 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 721 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11): The Unfriendly Neighbour who sends accross trained persons to attack innocent civilians with support from a few misguided elements in the country & tries to post it publically as an internal matter.........THEY are them.
I do not doubt the ability of Country A to beat Country B. However, compared with the last time they had a real ding dong matters have changed and when Country B feels it is losing it will probably use nukes, at which point Country A will do the same. While neither country will be destroyed, or even turned in the colourful glass coated car park (never have understood why the more excitable like glass paved car parks) that would be highly inconvenient for both country to use a bit of an understatement.
In other words, the rules have changed a bit.
BTW, a nuclear bomb that is in a "safe" condition is not a particular hazard. If containing plutonium, it is poisonous and a bit more radioactive, but a U bomb would make a perfect doorstop. Less radiation than you would get from a red granite kitchen top if you happen to have one! Different spectrum of radiation but overall less dangerous. Now if it were fused to go off, that WOULD be different.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 714 times:
Quoting Baroque (Reply 12): I do not doubt the ability of Country A to beat Country B. However, compared with the last time they had a real ding dong matters have changed and when Country B feels it is losing it will probably use nukes, at which point Country A will do the same
The problem is good ol neighbour should realise that the region has a lot of poverty that needs to be tackled & concentrate on improving their own economy.
WIN THE RACE BY RUNNING FASTER & NOT BY TRIPPING THE OPPONENT
BarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2050 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 709 times:
Quoting Baroque (Reply 12): I do not doubt the ability of Country A to beat Country B. However, compared with the last time they had a real ding dong matters have changed and when Country B feels it is losing it will probably use nukes, at which point Country A will do the same.
"They" tested their Chinese supplied nukes in 1998, and subsequently attacked us in 1999. Those nukes didn't do them any good, and they still lost severely, losing an entire division on the Himalayan peaks. Not just that, the nukes were not considered for use.
Point is, we've fought wars when neither of us had nukes, one of us had nukes, and when both of us had nukes. None of these wars entailed bringing these weapons to operational readiness.
See, the problem with these characterizations is the usual western rubbish about how this part of the world is allegedly occupied by wild eyed savages who have no idea about the concept of mutual deterrence and will presumably blow each other to the Stone Age when the one accidently farts, typically followed by even more BS about why we are mostly Hindu and they are Muslim, so we must naturally be inclined to want to convert each other into glass parking lots. Yes, "they" happen to be extremely unstable politically, but even so, I'll give them more credit for safeguarding their nukes than the average western Joe might.
We've a dispute over a piece of land. We have it. They want it. They send yahoos across the border to foment revolt because they've no hope of militarily annexing the land in question. We just kill said yahoos...
The entire dynamic of the dispute precludes the use of nukes. Using them wont give "them" the land. We don't need nukes to defeat them; our nukes are strategic weapons pointed to the north/northeast. The whole IndiaPakistanisanuclearflashpoint is just drivel that emanates from elsewhere.
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