Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
There's No Arguing With Conservatives...  
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1951 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1887 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/200...;_ylt=AlrLbDTZIpZLwMAiXJc5Ny2s0NUE

A new study out of Yale University confirms what argumentative liberals have long-known: Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder.

Interesting.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1880 times:



Quoting StuckInCA (Thread starter):
A new study out of Yale University

You messed up in the first sentence. How dare you quote some Eastern Elitist bastion of liberal  Wink  Wink


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1864 times:

Wait a minute! They needed a study to figure out what all us dirty, commie, pinko, unwashed liberals have always known?  duck 

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 1):
You messed up in the first sentence. How dare you quote some Eastern Elitist bastion of liberal  

 rotfl 



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1864 times:

A study from Yale, reported in the Washington Post, in an Op-Ed piece from the Huffington Post. And this is supposed to have credibility? Yes, I've never argued with a liberal that has agreed that tax cuts led to higher tax receipts at the treasury. Or that welfare, as it was up until welfare reform in 1996 was an abject failure. Or that entitlement spending is what is really bankrupting the government.

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1824 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting StuckInCA (Thread starter):

A new study out of Yale University confirms what argumentative liberals have long-known: Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder.

Well, if you take an editorial using some facts and some conjecture and report this editorial as fact (especially when the editorial is from a very slanted source) you are eliminating your own credibility right from the start.

The fundamental premise is that conservatives are liars. Am I lying about anything?

This sort of psuedo-scientific study is the kind of crap you feed the choir to get them excited.

I will say that arguing with any idealogue is a useless exercise.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1818 times:

I think just reading a-net threads will confirm that political debates in the States consist of two groups of people yelling at each other from across a divide without anyone ever realising the potential merits of counter-arguments.

I love many things about America. One of the few things I don't like is that Americans tend to pick a political party, and then define their own morals and ideals based on the morals and ideals of the party....and don't tend to compromise. In other normal parts of the world, people tend to form their ideals, and then assess how the difering parties compare against those ideals, and vote accordingly.


User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1813 times:



Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 5):
One of the few things I don't like is that Americans tend to pick a political party, and then define their own morals and ideals based on the morals and ideals of the party....and don't tend to compromise. In other normal parts of the world, people tend to form their ideals, and then assess how the difering parties compare against those ideals, and vote accordingly.

Part of the problem is that we have only two "viable" political parties...Politicians here have exploited that using a divide and conquer strategy.

Ideology is a dangerous thing and people do as you say need to consider things outside of their normal box of thought...Most successful companies utilize a Plan Do Check Adjust strategy. The same should follow here.

Not so sure about your second point...Outside the US we've got people blowing each other up over religion, starting race riots, etc. It happens everywhere unfortunately.


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1813 times:



Quoting DL021 (Reply 4):
Well, if you take an editorial using some facts and some conjecture and report this editorial as fact (especially when the editorial is from a very slanted source) you are eliminating your own credibility right from the start.

Wow. Calm down.

I thought the opinion piece was funny and thought others might feel the same way. The Washington Post article linked in it is pretty interesting.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 4):
The fundamental premise is that conservatives are liars.

I don't think that's the premise at all. People may believe what they are arguing.

The article points out some flaws in how liberals react to refuted information too.

Breathe everyone.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1811 times:



Quoting DL021 (Reply 4):

I will say that arguing with any idealogue is a useless exercise.

Just what is an idealogue to you?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 3):
Or that entitlement spending is what is really bankrupting the government.

Those "entitlement" programs you speak of are designed to be self-funding, and payroll taxes cover a massive portion of those programs. The other issue is that the government has its rules written in such a way that it gets fleeced on the costs of those services, with a very good example being Bush's Medicare prescription plan and another being the disparity in health care costs in the US versus other industrialized countries. Another issue is that Social Security is constantly being raided to make up for Federal short falls in other areas, and the largest areas of the federal budget are the DOD and the "War on Terror". Further, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars aren't even part of the budget equation, because they are appropriations and thus drain the treasury without being fully accounted for. It is that kind of discretionary spending that is bankrupting the government.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

StuckInCA,

Quote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080917/cm_huffpost/126805;_ylt=AlrLbDTZIpZLwMAiXJc5Ny2s0NUE

A new study out of Yale University confirms what argumentative liberals have long-known: Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder.

Interesting.



Some conservatives can be really almost impossible to deal with in that they seem impenetrable to an alternate view, and in some cases even logic and reason. I haven't seen that "rebound" effect much, however. I don't recall their beliefs becoming stronger when they've been presented with contradiction -- I just see unresponsiveness (unaffected by the information) and more butting of heads.

I don't really understand how the person would "argue back" against what they were told in their minds and then not just remain unaffected by it, but actually maintain a stronger (wrong) belief than they started out with...


Blackbird


User currently offlineMike89406 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

Two useless debates in this country are Politics & Religion. I have better things in my life (like my career & family) than to get obsessed about political affiliation. I have my views and beliefs but will not get in to a useless debate because everywhere you go internet work etc....there will always be a pissing contest either way. To be honest there will be dirt on liberals and conservatives. I will vote accordingly in November that is all I have to say about that.

Regards Mike

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 5):
I think just reading a-net threads will confirm that political debates in the States consist of two groups of people yelling at each other from across a divide without anyone ever realising the potential merits of counter-arguments.

I love many things about America. One of the few things I don't like is that Americans tend to pick a political party, and then define their own morals and ideals based on the morals and ideals of the party....and don't tend to compromise. In other normal parts of the world, people tend to form their ideals, and then assess how the difering parties compare against those ideals, and vote accordingly.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
I think just reading a-net threads will confirm that political debates in the States consist of two groups of people yelling at each other from across a divide without anyone ever realising the potential merits of counter-arguments.

I love many things about America. One of the few things I don't like is that Americans tend to pick a political party, and then define their own morals and ideals based on the morals and ideals of the party....and don't tend to compromise. In other normal parts of the world, people tend to form their ideals, and then assess how the difering parties compare against those ideals, and vote accordingly.

As an american I totally agree....


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8022 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1764 times:



Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 5):
One of the few things I don't like is that Americans tend to pick a political party, and then define their own morals and ideals based on the morals and ideals of the party....and don't tend to compromise.

The defining reason I will never subject myself to membership in either of the majority parties. Compromise is a necessary skill in business and most other walks of life, which might explain why there aren't many successful businesspeople currently employed as pols in Washington.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 9):
Some conservatives can be really almost impossible to deal with in that they seem impenetrable to an alternate view, and in some cases even logic and reason.

Conservatives have a monopoly on this brand of thinking? Look no further than the current Democratic congressional leaders and their supporters.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5490 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1668 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Another issue is that Social Security is constantly being raided to make up for Federal short falls in other areas, and the largest areas of the federal budget are the DOD and the "War on Terror".

Not wanting to attack your essential point (the fundamental inability of government to handle money and the power of taxation responsibly), but DoD and "War on Terror," while substantial, are far from being the "largest areas" of the federal budget; those would be Social Security and Medicare, which together aggregate over 35% of the federal budget.

What is worse, is that, while military spending can be controlled with some ease, by their nature, SS and Medicare are very difficult to restrict. They are the "1200 lb gorilla."



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1659 times:

Well at least we are happier and get more action according to two studies released earlier this year.

Like liberals are the bastion of reason. HAH!


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1616 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 13):
Like liberals are the bastion of reason.

Liberals want tell us how everything should be. They complain because GWB took away a right or two from people who didn't deserve them to begin with, but given the chance they will take our guns, our SUVs, our smokes, etc. All for the benefit to society. So I gues the average liberal is mad because it wasn't them who took away some rights.

You can't argue with conservatives because we are always right! Liberalism hasn't got us a damn thing, just more poverty, more crime, and more people dependant on the government to help them.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 4):
The fundamental premise is that conservatives are liars

Liberals make stuff up all the time when they can't get their way.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineCmhsrq From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 990 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1605 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Some conservatives can be really almost impossible to deal with in that they seem impenetrable to an alternate view, and in some cases even logic and reason. I haven't seen that "rebound" effect much, however. I don't recall their beliefs becoming stronger when they've been presented with contradiction -- I just see unresponsiveness (unaffected by the information) and more butting of heads.

I don't really understand how the person would "argue back" against what they were told in their minds and then not just remain unaffected by it, but actually maintain a stronger (wrong) belief than they started out with...

The key here is some, what I like about both parties is how they stereotype and lump all Republicans as war mongering, blow everything up, praise Jesus, NRA card carrying a-holes and Democrats are communist, tree hugging, do as I say not as I do, terrorist loving wimps. When only about 15 or so percent of the people in each group are actually that extreme. Unfortunately these people usually make the most noise, and create the most mis- information. The vast majority of people are moderate, with a more balanced view and thoughts and beliefs from both sides. This moderate group can all agree that politicians SUCK.


I for one will vote for the candidate who does the following:
1. Returns the USA to the status or world leader in something good, could be environmental, could be research, banking, something that will improve the lives of all people.
2. Balances the budget, by spending less not taxing more.
3. Makes the US energy independent, by developing a energy plan that promotes both conservation and development of new sources of energy.
4. Reduces the trade deficit, I think that if #3 was done this would take care of it's self.
5. Returns the US to a beacon of hope for other countries.
6. Gets rid of lobbyists. The government (yes the House and Senate included) are run by corporations and whats best for them, not the people that hired them, US citizens.
7 Creates a plan for Social Security and Medicaid. Thats the $140 a barrel oil problem 30 years from now. Everyone knows its coming, but nothing is being done about it.

I really don't care about abortion, Roe vs Wade isn't going to change and both parties should just get over it.

So what am I? Republican, Democrat, or Independent?

[Edited 2008-09-18 09:14:28]


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1599 times:



Quoting StuckInCA (Thread starter):
A new study out of Yale University confirms what argumentative liberals have long-known: Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder.

Absolutely, conservatives can talk themselves out of 'gravity' being real if need be. It's based on a false fear of 'something/someone' always out to take away something materialistic or some possession from them. (and it's never "Freedom"..Oh, they'll always use that as the rallying cry, yet, truth be told.. it never has anything to do with what they're actually out to obtain.

Quoting Cmhsrq (Reply 15):
I for one will vote for the candidate who does the following:



So what am I? Republican, Democrat, or Independent?

It sounds like Obama already has snagged your vote...cuz McCain is far cry from ALL of that.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4382 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1593 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 14):
but given the chance they will take our guns, our SUVs, our smokes, etc.

Um, no..that's ridiculous. Most liberals support 2nd amendment rights...and you're just blowing smoke with the others.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 14):
Liberalism hasn't got us a damn thing,

Look up what liberalism really means before you say something like that...



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1569 times:



Quoting Cmhsrq (Reply 15):
When only about 15 or so percent of the people in each group are actually that extreme.

So 15% of "liberals" love terrorists? I don't think so.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 14):

Liberals want tell us how everything should be.

Have you been paying attention the last 8 years?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 14):
They complain because GWB took away a right or two from people who didn't deserve them to begin with, but given the chance they will take our guns, our SUVs, our smokes, etc.

Who didn't deserve them? You don't "deserve" rights. Rights are not privileges.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 12):
but DoD and "War on Terror," while substantial, are far from being the "largest areas" of the federal budget; those would be Social Security and Medicare, which together aggregate over 35% of the federal budget.

You apparently missed most of the post. Social Security and Medicare are self-funded. The issue is the rest of the budget, of which the biggest portions are the DOD, War on Terror and massive appropriations, which borrow from Social Security and don't pay it back.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 17):
Most liberals support 2nd amendment rights...

Exactly. People can own guns, I have no problem with that. The Second Amendment says nothing about owning an arsenal fit for the army of some small countries or the unregulated trade in guns.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 990 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1557 times:



Quoting BN747 (Reply 16):
It sounds like Obama already has snagged your vote...cuz McCain is far cry from ALL of that.

Actually I haven't really heard that from either. I'm still undecided.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Quoting Cmhsrq (Reply 15):
When only about 15 or so percent of the people in each group are actually that extreme.

So 15% of "liberals" love terrorists? I don't think so.

Should I have put anti-American or hates the US instead? I was just talking about stereotypes and giving examples of some of them, while pointing out that a very small % of people are extreme right or left.

Are you in that 15% N1120A ?



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1544 times:

From my experience, it is near impossible to get hard core conservatives to move to the middle. That might change for some now with the economic meltdown were are seeing here in the USA due in part to Conservative led deregulation of banks, finanical services, food safety, work safety, immigation and other areas.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1544 times:



Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 19):

Should I have put anti-American or hates the US instead? I was just talking about stereotypes and giving examples of some of them, while pointing out that a very small % of people are extreme right or left.

You insult a whole lot of people by stating that such large percentages exist.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

Id say an equal agrument that there is no arguing with liberals.

Frankly I think the extremes of both sides are pieces of work. Each being equally as bad as their counterparts on the other end of the spectrum.

Both are close minded, oppinionated people who wont listen or any oppinion that comes from the "other side"

Liberals who criticize a politician who says the word " God" are just as bad as conservatives who criticize gay rights and abortion rights. But dont tell that to either side, because it will spur a long rant as to why its not true  Wink



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 990 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1529 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
You insult a whole lot of people by stating that such large percentages exist.

Well hopefully they are adults and they can deal with it.

So how else to you explain the very low approval ratings of the House, Senate, and the Pres? As in the % of people who actually do approve in what they are doing?

If you are from France N1120A i really don't expect you to understand. We have two totally different cultures.



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1512 times:



Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 23):

If you are from France N1120A i really don't expect you to understand. We have two totally different cultures.

You have been here long enough to know better than that.

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 23):

So how else to you explain the very low approval ratings of the House, Senate, and the Pres? As in the % of people who actually do approve in what they are doing?

Congress historically has a very low approval rating, because the general population doesn't really understand how they work. That the President has such a low approval rating is a good indication of the piss poor job this administration has done.

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 23):

Well hopefully they are adults and they can deal with it.

Calling people names, especially false names, isn't a particularly "adult" thing to do.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 CMHSRQ : You're killing me, look past the single words and understand the point I'm trying to make. First I don't know if you're French or not. I had a cowork
26 N1120A : That is highly simplistic. That said, generally what comes to mind is a political party that generally panders to the whims of corporations and relig
27 Post contains links Sv7887 : You mean the Democrats AND Republicans that voted to pass the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act "The bills
28 Falstaff : For the most part the last eight years of my life have been just fine. I voted for Bush and other than Iraq I think he was a good president. American
29 CMHSRQ : okay, and how about Democrats?
30 N1120A : No, it can't. We own this government, which means we own the rights. Wow, that is a scary view. And that was a good form of deregulation. That has no
31 BN747 : Oh..and did I mention 'Guns n' Bibles' a uniquely 'conservative' virtue? BN747
32 Post contains links RSWA330 : It's hard convincing liberals too. Let's look at a few examples... Obama has close ties with Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. In fact, he got more money fro
33 Aaron747 : How, exactly, has Bush been 'good'? Inquiring minds would like to know. As far as I'm concerned, the two categorically unforgivable aspects of his Pr
34 RJdxer : Social Security is supposedly self funded through FICA taxes as is Medicare through a payroll deduct but not Medicaid, Welfare, or any of a number of
35 Falstaff : What kind of gun? There are dozens of common fire arms that are not legal in California, because of their appearance (assault weapons bans are based
36 Post contains links RSWA330 : He warned Congress in 2003 that Fannie and Freddie needed heavier regulation. The Democrats didn't agree however. After all, increased regulation wou
37 Aaron747 : I wasn't aware that the PotUS was responsible for charting and steering the course of your life. Unless you're in the military, the President is most
38 MD80fanatic : If you cannot argue effectively with a conservative.....then complain about how they argue. Is this the "white flag" being shown to us? Is this surren
39 SCCutler : Medicare, alone, is on track to consume the entire federal budget, and this, within our lifetime. Government-run stuff generally does not work. That'
40 Mdsh00 : The Constitution damn well applies there too. If you really believe in this country and it's ideals, then the Constitution is it's most important par
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Is There No Place Like Home? posted Wed Mar 8 2006 03:34:48 by 767Lover
Is There Something Wrong With Me?! posted Sat Sep 17 2005 21:13:05 by TupolevTu154
Is There An Advantage With Olympic Barbel Plates? posted Sun Jul 6 2003 11:25:07 by L-188
'No Schmooze With The Jews'-Economist Article posted Sat Apr 6 2002 16:10:07 by Capt.Picard
I Have No Classes With My Girlfriend...help! posted Thu Aug 9 2001 23:01:31 by Critter592
Lisbon To Riga With No Passport From Tonight! posted Thu Dec 20 2007 15:07:10 by OA260
What One Drug Would You Try With No Consequences? posted Mon Dec 10 2007 23:59:01 by ArmitageShanks
IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock posted Wed Nov 21 2007 05:08:32 by Zak
Off To Euroland Tomorrow With No Plan posted Wed Jun 27 2007 20:44:05 by LHMARK
Idiots With Money And No Responsibilty... posted Fri Jan 12 2007 03:24:54 by GQfluffy