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Anti-Scientology Protesters 'Greet' Mrs. Cruise  
User currently offlineHowSwedeitis From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 586 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1800 times:
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Now, I am no fan of Scientology, but did these protesters go too far?

Quote:
Nearly 100 people lined up outside the Gerald Schoenfeld Theatre last night an hour before Holmes was due to appear on Broadway for the first time in a preview performance for Arthur Miller's All My Sons.

But they were joined by 30 anti-Scientology protesters who stood behind a barricade and loudly chanted 'Scientology kills!'.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/tvshow...reet-Mrs-Cruise-opening-night.html

What's your opinion, AirNutters?

-HSII


Heja Sverige!!
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1773 times:



Quoting HowSwedeitis (Thread starter):
Now, I am no fan of Scientology, but did these protesters go too far?

No. Because Scientology DOES kill and it is a dangerous powerful and money grubbing cult.

Do the research...Anonymous is calling them out for what they have.

"The God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister." -Bono


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17824 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1753 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 1):
Because Scientology DOES kill and it is a dangerous powerful and money grubbing cult.

How is that different from just about any other religion?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1727 times:



Quoting HowSwedeitis (Thread starter):
but did these protesters go too far?



Quoting HowSwedeitis (Thread starter):
What's your opinion, AirNutters?

No they did not go too far. From the looks of it they were peaceful and non-violent, in which case they are free to protest. If they were breaking the law and disturbing the event (jumping over barricades etc.) then I would say they had gone too far.


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1713 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

How is that different from just about any other religion?

Well.... if you leave scientology, they'll stalk and bully you and try to destroy your reputation. I haven't heard that from the Catholic Church recently.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1698 times:



Quoting Rara (Reply 4):
Well.... if you leave scientology, they'll stalk and bully you and try to destroy your reputation.

if you cause them any kind of trouble they'll make it hot for you.

They keep a list, you know. This has been in existence since the sixties and I knew a couple of people who'd been on it and had trouble from people within the organization.

http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/enemies.htm


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1686 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 1):
Because Scientology DOES kill and it is a dangerous powerful and money grubbing cult.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
How is that different from just about any other religion?

None of the clergy (all volunteers at the local and regional level) or officials/leaders in my church benefit financially from their involvment. No one person is getting weatlhy off our tithes. The few who do recieve stipends for their full time work for the church make far less than they did in the careers they had prior to their service. One of the reason why these people are generally older is that they are retired. We've been accused of being a cult despite being a major world religion and the fasted growing world religion. So I'd say that is pretty different from a "religion" where the leaders live a life of luxury and even have something called seaorg where a legion of accolites act as virtual slaves.

People can also quit my religion at any time and members aren't encouraged to shun those people. The opposite in fact. I'd say that is pretty different.

Our church leaders have allways encourage the entire membership to obtain as much education as possible and to seek out personal confirmation that what they are teaching is true. Educated people are difficult to oppress or brainwash. Again I'd say that sounds pretty different than Scientology.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17824 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1650 times:



Quoting Rara (Reply 4):
I haven't heard that from the Catholic Church recently.



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 6):
None of the clergy (all volunteers at the local and regional level) or officials/leaders in my church benefit financially from their involvment.

It's a new religion; give Scientology a century or two and maybe they'll arrive at the same point.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1634 times:



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 5):
if you cause them any kind of trouble they'll make it hot for you.

They keep a list, you know. This has been in existence since the sixties and I knew a couple of people who'd been on it and had trouble from people within the organization.

http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/enemi...s.htm

Ah yes, L Ron Hubbard’s infamous “fair game” approach…nice.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 6):
We've been accused of being a cult despite being a major world religion and the fasted growing world religion.

It is a cult. It is not a religion. There is no public statement of faith, there is no public ritual, there is no public access to any house of worship. Scientology is a business, a scam that preys on weak-minded fools who have to pay ca$h to reach enlightenment. All hail Xenu!


Anyone else interested in learning the truth about this dangerous cult, Google for it. Check out You Tube. Lisa McPherson’s story is but the tip of the iceberg.


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1628 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
How is that different from just about any other religion?

It isn't. Cult, religion. All synonymous. They are one and the same, IMHO.

Quoting Slider (Reply 8):
All hail Xenu!

What would Scooby Doo?



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1612 times:



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 9):

What would Scooby Doo?

LOL!

He'd run like hell away from the Scientology moonbats for starters.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17824 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1608 times:



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 9):
It isn't. Cult, religion. All synonymous. They are one and the same, IMHO.

I'd throw professional sport fans in there too Smile



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1600 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
It's a new religion;

Mine is relatively new too as in younger than the US. We've been structured the same way since the begining.

Quoting Slider (Reply 8):
It is a cult. It is not a religion.

I was talking about my religion (not a cult though accused of it) vs. Scientology (sure seems like a cult to me)


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1573 times:



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 12):
I was talking about my religion (not a cult though accused of it) vs. Scientology (sure seems like a cult to me)

Beg my pardon, I thought you were implying clearly that you were a Scientologist. What are you then, if you don't mind my asking?


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

LDS
.\\\


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1545 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 13):
I thought you were implying clearly that you were a Scientologist

Hmm... I think the give-away was this...

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 6):
Again I'd say that sounds pretty different than Scientology.

 Smile


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1528 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

How is that different from just about any other religion?

Well the Pope didn't become the head of the Catholic Church by giving them lots of money

Quoting Rara (Reply 4):
Well.... if you leave scientology, they'll stalk and bully you and try to destroy your reputation.

Those fair game attacks really do wonders for their credibility "Oh you're leaving us? We're going to resort to childish name calling you poo poo head"


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1502 times:



Quoting Slider (Reply 1):
"The God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister." -Bono

Yet another reason I respect this man. The truth is a bitch sometimes.

Quoting Rara (Reply 4):
I haven't heard that from the Catholic Church recently.

From a former Catholic, there's a reason for that.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineDFW13L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1426 times:

Hey folks, I was going to keep my mouth shut, but have decided to go ahead and post a little bit on the difference between a religion and a cult. And no, my answer is not that a deity is in charge of one and man is in charge of another.

Here's the deal. A person can leave a religion without having to fear for their life. Or let me say it a bit better. A person in a religion has the option to leave a religion. A person in a cult does not have the option to leave. They can't.

Cults are real. There are approx 2 million people in the US in cults, and they range from religious cults to weight loss cults, and I've even heard of a cult on horsebreeding. The actual topic or reason for a cult doesn't matter. It's the level of psychological control that the leader imposes on its members the defines a cult. Most seemed to be formed around religion, but they don't need to be. Nazi Germany was, by definition, a cult.

No sane person can see themselves joining a cult, so it's easy to distance one's self from the problem and say that only the weak-minded or the desperate or people with unfortunate circumstances get sucked into cults. The truth is that nobody joins a cult. Cults recruit people, and they need people they can use for further recruiting and also for their financial needs, so one key target group for cults is bright and possibly wealthy college students.

Rather than writing a whole thesis, here's what they do, using the college campus example. A new guy shows up at a school. He's wanting to get involved in some activities and make some friends. He was involved in the youth groups at church, so he goes around looking for what similar activities there are at his new college. He meets a girl who is involved in a "bible talk" that has some great friends and she starts talking to him and then goes on and on about how good it is, so he decides to check them out.

He goes to this Bible talk, which has about 10-15 students his age. They all get along so much better than anything he is used to. There aren't cliques. Everyone seems more authentic than he has ever experienced. Being something of an idealist, this really appeals to him. He had always considered church to be "going through the motions" and it never felt completely "real" to him. This is different. These guys were excited about religion and the enthusiasm was contagious. At the end of the meeting, two guys approach him, asking if he liked it so far. Then they say they are looking for some more one-on-one Bible study and if he would like to join them and make a threesome, to get together like twice a week or something, which he agrees to. He's intellectually curious, so he decides that an in-depth Bible study would be exciting.

These guys start working on him and breaking him down without him knowing it. They call at the middle of the night about some "spiritual" issue that they need to talk about. Slowly they start controlling him more and more, but it doesn't feel like they are controlling him, because whenever he does what they want, they do what's call "love-bombimg" him. They feed his ego or self-esteem or whatever you call it, by overdoing it on attention. Through sleep-deprivation and even the avoidance of eating protein, he starts breaking down. They finally break him and force him to commit to the group.

This is getting to be too long, but I'm just wanting to introduce (and I'm not sure how well I have done it) the fact that cults use a systematic way to gradually break someone down. In the case of Scientology, if recruits were told on the first day that they were all poisoned with Thetans in their bodies, which got there millions of years ago in an intergalactic war, and they must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to rid themselves of this problem, then most likely, there wouldn't be many Scientologists.

What cult members do know, once they get deep inside their groups is that they cannot leave. There are real and imagined psychological barriers to leaving. The real ones are things such as former members of the Unification Church (Moonies) have reached into their mailboxes at home and been bitten by snakes that were placed there by the church. More commonly though, people honestly fear that they will die, their families will die (because their mindless chanting or speaking in tongues for hours on end is the only thing that kept them, or even the world, alive), or that they will go to hell and there is no turning back once they leave the fold. When they do leave, they are nearly paralyzed with fear and post-traumatic stress disorder.

Here are some bullet points, sort of a cult "check list" to see if a group is a cult, which I found on http://www.scientology-kills.org/cults.htm :

  • The group is focused on a leader to whom members seem to display excesively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

  • The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

  • The group is preoccupied with making money.

  • Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

  • Mind-numbing techniques) such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

  • The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what type of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).

  • The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

  • The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

  • The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religion).

  • The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify the means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).

  • The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

  • Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.

  • Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.

  • Members are encouraged to live and/or socialize only with other group members.


This might be my longest post other than trip reports! Cults are a very real problem, and one of the reasons for their success is that nobody takes the problem seriously, which allows them to thrive.

I'm happy to answer any (legitimate) questions here or privately.

Matt


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1402 times:



Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 17):

Yet another reason I respect this man. The truth is a bitch sometimes.

You got that right...

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 17):

From a former Catholic, there's a reason for that.

Ditto here- recovering Catholic.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 14):
LDS

DFW just defined LDS...hate to say it.

Why doesn't the LDS allow people into the temple? Why the secrecy? After all, Jesus tore the temple veil, so why hide behind it? Not only is my God not short of cash, he's not secretive. My vision of Christ doesn't hide behind dogmatic man-made rules and BS (Jesus fought the Pharisees for the very same thing after all), he's there for anyone, anytime, anywhere, with no strings attached. All he said was follow me.

I'll cite DFW's amazing cult definition and post again becuase it fits the the LDS to a tee. The only thing that keeps Mormons from being numero uno on the cultometer is the wackier Scientologists and Xenu.

The LDS has done a magnificent job of supressing dissent (see the Mountain Meadows Massacre, where Brigham Young, the "prophet" slaughtered over a 100 people).

Moonies, Mormons, Scientologists...just different flavors of a common theme.


User currently offlineHapppyLandings From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

Scientology is very dangerous.. I dont like it one bit!


Anonymous is over the top though. Too cooky to be taken seriously... GROW UP!


User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1455 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1388 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
It's a new religion; give Scientology a century or two and maybe they'll arrive at the same point.

A Religion? More a profit orientated organisation which does only care about their members as long as they keep spending money on their products  banghead 


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1385 times:

Last I checked there were at least two Congressmen (actually they were both women) who were Scientologists, leading me to believe they are trying to influence politics.


Blackbird


User currently offlineHapppyLandings From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1378 times:



Quoting SQ325 (Reply 21):
A Religion? More a profit orientated organisation which does only care about their members

So it is a religion!!!!???  duck 


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1341 times:



Quoting HapppyLandings (Reply 20):
Why doesn't the LDS allow people into the temple? Why the secrecy?

 Yeah sure This has been explained to death. See LDS.org and Mormon.org if you want to know what we actually beleive not some outsiders conjecture. We have about 120 temples and something like a quarter to a half a million meeting houses with signs that read visitors welcome on the outside. There are no secrets all the information is out there in the open. Temples are for sacred things like marriages. Non-worthy members and non-members aren't permited in because it is a sacred place it has nothing to do with some big conspiracy. We are hardly the only religion that has some areas which are off limits to the general public. Christian Ethiopians (coptic), some Jewish sects, even the Catholic Church has areas off limits to all but a few of their members to name a few I could go . 99% of church participation happens in public meeting houses (I've been inside one I think 2 times in my life). The other 1% isn't some sort of evil conspiracy. We even open up every new temple to the general public prior to it's dedication. You can tour and learn about what we do there it's free and all are welcome. Sure sounds like we are trying to conceal something, not.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
The LDS has done a magnificent job of supressing dissent (see the Mountain Meadows Massacre, where Brigham Young, the "prophet" slaughtered over a 100 people).

Um can you quote something a little more recent. Not to mention Brigham Young had nothing to do with Mountain Meadows. It was the action of a group of gittery Mormon settlers who after suffering much persecution living in an atmosphere where they feared additonal persectuions overreacted to a situation with gross misjudgement. I suggest you read Massacre at Mountain Meadows published by oxford press (not an LDS production BTW) if you are actually interested in a factual account.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
I'll cite DFW's amazing cult definition and post again becuase it fits the the LDS to a tee.

I don't see a thing in that description that matches my religion. Any other world religion would fare the same as the LDS church in a matchup with that list.

Frankly I don't generally respond to these sorts of criticisms. It is an act of futility because no amount of evidence or reason will ever soften your heart or change your mind.

The Bible says "By their fruits ye shall know them" collectively we are honest decent productive members of society.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
My vision of Christ doesn't hide behind dogmatic man-made rules and BS (Jesus fought the Pharisees for the very same thing after all), he's there for anyone, anytime, anywhere, with no strings attached. All he said was follow me.

Nor does mine and that of the Christ my church teaches about.


25 HowSwedeitis : My vision of Christ is a bong smoking surfer dude who's cool to hang out with! -HSII
26 Dougloid : I think Christ is sort of a mirror in a way. Everyone sees what they want to see, even me. The most impressive piece of decorative representation of
27 QXatFAT : Actually, the Christian faith (protestant if you wana call it that) does not have any "secret" areas that you can not go and visit or go into as a pl
28 DocLightning : Well in the modern day, few religions come to quite the degree that $cientology does. They're probably something akin to the Roman Catholic Church du
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