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The Draft Is Coming Back (Or At Least Some Folks Think It Is).....  
User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Or that is what some seem to think...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...farmer’s-market-feeling-a-draft/

ABOARD THE ELECTION EXPRESS: Cambridge, OH (CNN) — There was a farmer’s market under way on the courthouse square as we pulled into town, and across the street Howard Forsythe, 73, was walking into the bank to take care of some personal business.

We talked for a few minutes about the first presidential debate next week, and he said that if he were somehow allowed to ask the candidates one question, it would be this:

“What are you going to do about the fact that we’re going to have to initiate a military draft again?

80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4439 times:

If the instituted another draft scenario, then who goes? Who doesn't? It would be a political mess that would take years to work out, not to mention there would be civilian riots and fallout from the idea of it floating through Washington.

Nobody wants it, other than old conservative ex. war Vets....who got drafted and had some sort of comraderie with their old soldiers and meet up for Vet meetings.

Won't happen, and if it does, Europe here I come. (actually, I have an excuse to not be drafted, but still yet)

UAL


User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3579 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4421 times:



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 1):
Nobody wants it, other than old conservative ex. war Vets....who got drafted and had some sort of comraderie with their old soldiers and meet up for Vet meetings.

Actually, the last Congress people who discussed it were liberal democrats.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 1):

Won't happen, and if it does, Europe here I come. (actually, I have an excuse to not be drafted, but still yet)

So you enjoy the benefits of this country but are too cowardly or selfish to give something in return?


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

If true, this is just a disaster. This would give Bush unlimited numbers of troops to sacrifice for his ill-conceived foreign policy.

And you do know there will be no deferments or any way out of serving -- afterall, after all the maneuvers the Neocons went to, using any excuse or military deferment to avoid military service, you'd figure they'd close up all the loop-holes.


Blackbird


User currently offlineSalukipilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4424 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
So you enjoy the benefits of this country but are too cowardly or selfish to give something in return?

You mean give my life for nothing? Protect freedoms by restricting the freedom of innocent people? Go abroad and damage MY country's international reputation? Die for oil rights?

If that's what you mean then no...I will be sitting right next to UAL on the flight out of here.



Silver Airways Captain
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4415 times:



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 1):
If the instituted another draft scenario, then who goes? Who doesn't? It would be a political mess that would take years to work out, not to mention there would be civilian riots and fallout from the idea of it floating through Washington.

What do you mean "Who Goes?" - the selection process is all clearly stated in the Selective Service information you receive when you enroll at age 18.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 1):
Nobody wants it, other than old conservative ex. war Vets....who got drafted and had some sort of comraderie with their old soldiers and meet up for Vet meetings.

 sarcastic 


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4366 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
This would give Bush unlimited numbers of troops to sacrifice for his ill-conceived foreign policy.

Let's say Bush called for a draft tomorrow. Congress would not be debating such a measure until he was long out of office.

It will be Obama or McCain that has to deal with the prospect of a draft. Obama, for better or worse, will never support it. McCain might.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24905 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

While maybe not the draft directly, however I believe it would be a good idea to look at instituting some form of mandated national service which has been succesful at many nations across the globe.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4292 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
While maybe not the draft directly, however I believe it would be a good idea to look at instituting some form of mandated national service which has been succesful at many nations across the globe.

A national service of some sort isn't a bad idea. But still, many of the countries who have it have either abolished it, or reduced the quotas.

Italy already abolished the draft a few years ago. If I'm not mistaken, Germany is talking about it (or have they already? I'm not sure), and Switzerland is massively reducing the quotas.

My opinion is that an Army should be made of people who *want* to serve, or else they risk having a group of highly un-motivated people who wouldn't be of any help to the mission. And that's not useful if you actually want to win a war in modern times.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineHowSwedeitis From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4282 times:
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Quoting Salukipilot (Reply 4):
Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
So you enjoy the benefits of this country but are too cowardly or selfish to give something in return?

You mean give my life for nothing? Protect freedoms by restricting the freedom of innocent people? Go abroad and damage MY country's international reputation? Die for oil rights?

If that's what you mean then no...I will be sitting right next to UAL on the flight out of here.

Exactly! If the US were attacked (and I mean invaded by a legitimate nation) such as it was in WWII, then I would defend it. But Vietnam? Iraq? Not when we're the one's attacking. I too would sit next to UAL and Saluki! I'll order the drinks, you grab the peanuts.

-HSII



Heja Sverige!!
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7075 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4226 times:

How would the politicians get the military leadership to go along with this, money? If passed it will be years before any draftee gets anywhere near a real combat situation. The military long since discovered that a motivated soldier is worth more than physical numbers. Draftees will probably be used in non-fighting roles until all the volunteers are gone and the professionalism of the military greatly reduced, then no one would care.

What the US needs to do is to continue where they were ahead of many countries, Peace Corp. Despite some quirks it is basically what the politicians really want, to ensure that their sons and daughters serve their country, so that when they support and vote for a war they have a better appreciation of what service is. Last I checked, the Bush Administration did not start any war without the support of the American people through their congressional vote.


User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1416 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

The last one to introduce a bill to reinstate it was everyone's favorite scandal filled senator, Charles Rangel of NY.
http://www.house.gov/list/press/ny15...l/CBRStatementonDraft02142006.html

Congressman Charles Rangel today introduced new legislation to reinstate the military draft that will include draftees up to 42 years of age.

"Every day that the military option is on the table, as declared by the President in his State of the Union address, in Iran, North Korea, and Syria, reinstatement of the military draft is an option that must also be considered, whether we like it or not," Congressman Rangel said. "If the military is already having trouble getting the recruits they need, what can we do to fill the ranks if the war spreads from Iraq to other countries? We may have no other choice but a draft."

But now my favorite part of the article....

"I don't expect my bill to pass"

Then don't introduce it and waste government time buddy!


User currently offlinePacNWjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4132 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
If true, this is just a disaster. This would give Bush unlimited numbers of troops to sacrifice for his ill-conceived foreign policy.

Are you aware there is a presidential election in the United States in 38 days with a new president taking office in 114 days? Exactly how, pray tell, will this contribute to President Bush's foreign policy? Do you really think an undertaking like this could take place in less than four months?


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4093 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
This would give Bush unlimited numbers of troops to sacrifice for his ill-conceived foreign policy.

 sarcastic  Obviously, as usual, you have missed what the OP write. He was talking about the issue, and wanting to question the Presidental candidates about it.

On a side note, I cannot be drafted. I'm deaf...  Smile So I am all good!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3990 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
While maybe not the draft directly, however I believe it would be a good idea to look at instituting some form of mandated national service which has been succesful at many nations across the globe.

There is another word for that it is called slavery.

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 11):
But now my favorite part of the article....

"I don't expect my bill to pass"

Then don't introduce it and waste government time buddy!

Agree with you entirely....Actually Rangle just got with non-running car towed from the congressional parking garage.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3968 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
While maybe not the draft directly, however I believe it would be a good idea to look at instituting some form of mandated national service which has been succesful at many nations across the globe.

There is another word for that it is called slavery.

or paying back what society provided to you.

Jan


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3966 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
There is another word for that it is called slavery.

The swiss dont seem to mind...



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

Salukipilot,

First of all, I did not make that quote... Mham001 did. I personally agree with most of what you said


AirframeAS,

Good point. However, say we do float the question the candidates about it -- what do you think it will do? You think they're honestly going to say, "I'm going to draft every single person from 18-42 I can get my hands on and send them off to fight an endless series of wars for the plundering of oil, and empire-building"??? They're going to lie their asses off and say how a draft isn't necessary even though we've been at war for 5-1/2 years, and that they would never want to use a draft and that a draft isn't a good idea (we'll it isn't, but they don't actually truly believe it's a bad idea -- they just need bodies to put in uniform, give guns to and train them how to shoot them).


Blackbird


User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

I am totally against a mandated National Service. If we dont want to serve in something like that, we shouldnt have to.

As far as a possible draft, I wouldn't have a problem with going. However, If a draft was imminent, I would sign up anyway. I would rather do something I like/and am good at than do something I hate/and suck at it.

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3889 times:

Delta767300ER,

I agree with the first passage, I also am against Compulsory National Service.

However I'm also opposed to a draft in all but the most dire situations... Invading Iraq was not a dire situation (Congress only allowed it because they were lied to) -- and if we didn't sacrifice so many innocent people in Iraq, we wouldn't be in this predicament now.


Blackbird


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3864 times:
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Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 9):
But Vietnam? Iraq? Not when we're the one's attacking

In Vietnam, the Republic of Vietnam asked for our country's help and we gave it to them. The USA did not invade.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
There is another word for that it is called slavery.

Its not slavery if you get paid for it.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13043 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3816 times:

Assuming there is a winding down in Iraq, there will be a lot less need for troops in the future. If the economy goes into a long term recession, there will be enough people willing to enlist to survive or get college money. To have an active draft - which should also include women - would be a nightmare of many avoiding with lies. Some would say they were gay/lesbian. Some would take illegal drugs to disqualify. Those rich enough will 'buy' exemptions from doctors as to mental health or exaggrate physical problems or get the laws adjusted by the politicans. Other still would leave the country to places with weak extridition treaties.

User currently offlineFridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3790 times:
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There will be no draft, simple as that. Our country won't stand for it, although in my own opinion a lot our youth would benefit greatly from serving in the Military! It did wonders for my ass!!! bigthumbsup 

As has been previously said, a volunteer who is motivated to be there will be a much better soldier than a draftee who does not want to be there. Hell, they'd all just go to Canada anyway.

Just my  twocents 



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineSmithAir747 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1626 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

With one bad (nearly blind) eye, and no ears (and a hearing aid), would I be eligible to serve whether there was a draft or not, in any of the service branches?

SmithAir747



I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3695 times:



Quoting SmithAir747 (Reply 23):
With one bad (nearly blind) eye, and no ears (and a hearing aid), would I be eligible to serve whether there was a draft or not, in any of the service branches?

Let's say if they draft you, we know the situation is dire.  Smile



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
25 MD11Engineer : On the other hand, all WW2 armies were made up out of draftees (on both sides). The majority of the draftees turned out to have a fully professional
26 Rara : They were arguably fighting for the survival of their respective countries, however. If US draftees go to Iran or some obscure African place, I doubt
27 DLPMMM : I nominate this thread in the "Stupidest" category. There is no military service draft being seriously proposed by any credible US Government official
28 MD11Engineer : Ok, as my highschool history teacher said: "The combat efficiency of an army is inversely proprtional to the distance from home". But the US during V
29 Venus6971 : The problem with that type of a regiment is that when they go to battle they are affected adversely when they start seeing childhood friends killed p
30 Johns624 : The Casualty Lists in the Scottish War Memorial at Edinburgh Castle were very sobering...so many Camerons, MacDonalds, Campbells, etc. Fort William h
31 Ken777 : Actually it was a wise idea to put the risk of a draft in front of the public. Bush & Pals have created a huge mess in terms of military recruitment
32 Sv7887 : Ummm you do realize he's about to leave office? Ask Obama what his position is on attacking Pakistan and Afghanistan again.... Yeah he owes the taxpa
33 StuckInCA : I doubt if many people thought there was. Thanks for saving the day with your very helpful guidance. It's a topic worthy of discussion, right? If not
34 JFK69 : Why should it matter if it gets voted down now or later? If it got rejected then the same thing would have happened if "Bush and Co." introduced the
35 PacNWjet : Discussing the wisdom of mandatory military service in any country is a worthy endeavor. I think what DLPMMM objects to (as do I) is the original pos
36 StuckInCA : That seems fair, but look at the title of the thread and then tell me it's reasonable to say that the OP has "lost all credibility."
37 Delta767300ER : Blackbird, Thanks. I am also opposed to a military draft. Sorry I didnt explain that. -Delta767300ER
38 Ken777 : I actually keep a widget on my computer that lets me know how much longer he'll be in office. Right now it's 119 days, 23 hours and 56 minutes. And I
39 Sv7887 : Obama advocates doing exactly what Bush is doing now: Striking Pakistan unilaterally. That has resulted in US forces being fired upon by Pakistani fo
40 AirframeAS : No. Not even the ADA Act of 1990 will help you against the military.
41 DocLightning : So a few things. A few years back, some Congressional Democrats did propose a draft. The motive was that perhaps if more peoples' kids were being sent
42 DLPMMM : No, it is not. There are no credible people in authority promoting reinstatement of the draft. The OP's post is designed to create the impression of
43 Blackbird : DocLightning, Trust me it wouldn't. There would probably be some way they could make it seem necessary or just. The one thing I have learned about thi
44 Post contains links Sv7887 : Tell that to the 3,000 victims of 9/11!! To them that threat is all too real, or perhaps you can ask the 2 Americans who just died in Pakistan. It's
45 Blackbird : Sv7887, Bush had ample warning there was going to be a terror-attack, and either through incompetence, or deliberate-action allowed them to occur. It'
46 Cadet57 : Hey, It worked once!
47 NAV20 : Glad that other people have noticed that - and if you ever come to Australia you'll see the same thing, not just in big-city places like the Shrine i
48 Fridgmus : I agree with you there Jan, but those were very different times my friend, very different. Marc
49 Cgnnrw : Two issues need to be cleared up before the draft is re-instated: 1) what about women? women are serving in all areas of the military. Will they be in
50 Blackbird : Cgnnrw, I do not believe women should be drafted. I appreciate all the new rights and privelages women have achieved over the past 30-40 years, but I
51 MD11Engineer : Why? Can't keep the cake and eat it too. If you want equal rights, then you'll have to accept equal responsibilities and duties. This also applies to
52 Cgnnrw : Don't ask, Don't tell is in no way a priviledge.
53 Salukipilot : I voted for Gore and for Kerry... ...true words though....
54 StasisLAX : "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Quote attributed to Sinclair Lewis
55 MD11Engineer : This applied to both women and gays, who try to use their gender or sexual orientation to escape responsibilities like draft. IMO, the military shoul
56 AirframeAS : I agree with this. If a draft happens, women SHOULD be included too. After all, they wanted equal rights back in the 50's-60's....equal rights they s
57 PacNWjet : Before the draft is reinstated? Are you saying you agree with the individual quoted in the original post that it is a fact that the draft will be rei
58 Venus6971 : The money is the thing about maintaining a huge standing army, compared to what it took to equip a WW2 G.I compared to a G.I. today is huge. Just the
59 Mike89406 : Women wanted to serve in combat because they felt they didn't have equal rights now theyy have that.
60 Blackbird : MD11Engineer, In case you're wondering I did not vote for a government that will start one. I never voted for Bush, I didn't like the guy even before
61 AirframeAS : When you vote for a president, you are still voting for a government...plain and simple.
62 Cadet57 : Translation: Women should be given the same privileges as men, but I dont feel like doing all the things men can. You cant pick and choose. You want
63 DocLightning : For now. But these things have a way of snowballing. What special privilege have gays asked for? Please list one right that gays have requested that
64 MD11Engineer : Doc, I was refering to a quote from Blackbird, about that gayness should still be a reason to be excluded from draft, so that e.g. her brother could
65 DocLightning : In that case, I agree. And please try to tell the Israeli and British militaries that they are ineffective because they allow gays. If we were to pla
66 MD11Engineer : With the Israelis, it's the same with women. When I was 18, I did a trip though Spain by train. On the way back to Berlin, while waiting in Paris's G
67 Blackbird : DocLightning, That is a good assessment actually... Blackbird
68 Venus6971 : Because their is no retreat for them, they can't afford to lose a war.
69 DocLightning : The Israeli Military uses a few shrewd techniques that have escaped the U.S. military. 1) Men who train together serve together. This is because if y
70 Blackbird : Doc Lightning, You're saying that Israel has no male drill instructors? Also, these women have served at least a tour before being instructors right?
71 MD11Engineer : to 1) The British Army uses the same system with their county regiments and generally deploys whole batallions together, so that the same soldiers, w
72 DC10extender : While I firmly believe that the draft will never be instituted unless the US is invaded or we go to war with say China, I do know that if it is brough
73 DocLightning : Did I say that? I said that the Israeli military uses young women as combat instructors. I just combed my post over for a statement of 100% certainty
74 DocLightning : HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I love it! Nothing like using machismo to your advantage.
75 Blackbird : DocLightning, I just thought that sounded kind of odd... I also was wondering if they served a tour of duty -- it's good when instructors have already
76 AirframeAS : You actually do when you start threads like this, Blackbird.... Think about it. Your RR is pretty low, that explains it...
77 Jetmatt777 : Women wanted the right to vote, they got it, they have to pay back society, if a draft ever does come to frutition, they should also be looked at the
78 DocLightning : Not sexual preference! The government makes no attempt to act blind there!
79 Blackbird : AirframeAS, I actually didn't know I had a Respect Rating, but in either case I'm not here to win popularity contests. I'm here to ask questions on th
80 Fridgmus : Yes you are!
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