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Return Home (native Country) Or Not...  
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

Hi there all,
Just looking for some feedback. I’m not asking you to decide for me, just interested in knowing if other ex-pats’ have gone through what I’m currently going through, and especially the opinions of Irish ex-pats still abroad or who have returned, foreigners who have lived in Ireland and of course Irish people back home.
A quick background. I’ve been living abroad for about 16 years now. Leaving Ireland was my choice, as there were things I didn’t like in Ireland, things I thought the country lacked, and I must say, today this is no longer the case.
Anyway, I’m travelling a lot to Dublin recently on business, and I’m overwhelmed at the work ethic there. Things are, despite all the “doom and gloom” on the radio at the moment in Ireland, much more dynamic than what I’ve experienced in Spain and France. With my job, I could be anywhere, so moving back to Ireland will not affect it, and would probably be positive given contacts etc.
Big problem is the wife, I don’t really think she wants to move there, claims she doesn’t like the climate (I can understand that, but heck the weather isn’t the most important thing).
So basically, I am down. I’ve got quite miserable abroad and constantly think I would be happier at home... but who knows? Maybe I’d regret it.
So anyone in or been in a similar situation.
This is a HUGE summary of my current “dilemma”, just throwing it out to see what opinions/ideas are thrown at me, and I’ll certainly add to the thread.
Thanks!
Toulouse


Long live Aer Lingus!
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

I am in a similar situation to you. Abroad for 15 years now, and a real hankering to return home. However, unlike you, my chosen field of work, (at least the version of it that I am involved in), is not that exciting in NZ.

I think I will find a way to make it work, however it probably won't be for about 3 more years.

If your work is that mobile, surely it's worth trying for a year. I think weather is a very bad criteria to rule out a destination, (unless it's the north pole). There are some truly amazing places in the world with crap weather, (London), and some truly crap places with great weather, (Brisbane). I'd sacrifice the weather every time. As far as your wife is concerned, convince her to try it. Anyone can try something for a year right?


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

You do make a good point KiwiinOZ... just you know having mortgage here in France, a 3 year-old, the idea of taking a "year out" to give it a try doesn't really appeal to me, yet granted it may be the only option.
Regarding ruling it out over weather, I fully agree with you!
Anyway, thanks for you input. It is a huge dilemma as you seem to know yourself, and I hope you can work it out professionnally to get yourself back home.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6336 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

My parents moved to London when I was just a baby, they were only 19 at the time and had very little money, no job and a baby to look after but after a while they settled into life here and had no major regrets. That was until this year when my mum started talking about the possibility of moving back to Ireland after 18 years of living happily in London. It didn't surprise me at all because whenever we visited Ireland she would be very reluctant to leave and for days after she would talk about how great life was for everyone there. My dad was shocked that she wanted to go back, she has a tough job dealing with children who have serious learning difficulties but she enjoys it because it's a challenge and every day is different, she also has a good group of friends so my dad just couldn't understand why she would want to drop all of that. I think it's because my mum misses the Ireland that she grew up in, not the Ireland that is there today and I think if she moved back she would quickly regret it.

Although there are a lot of positive things about living in Ireland, I've noticed a lot of negatives and the biggest one affects my family the most. They all have really well paid jobs, huge homes and nice cars which is basically everything we don't have but they've also got something we'd rather not have, debt and a lot it. So I don't know if it would be worth it for all of us to go back.

Toulouse, you've got the advantage of having a flexible job and if moving back to Ireland has a positive impact on your career and life I can see why it would be so tempting. It sounds like you would be happy in Ireland because of the way of life that there is now not because you miss the life you used to have which is the dilemma my family have. If the only reason your wife doesn't want to move is the climate it would still be worth going back, you can get used to climate and complaining about it would become a hobby but there might be other reasons to discuss.

Best of luck with it!

Shamrock350


User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2306 times:

Toulouse, has your wife been to Ireland frequently as well or has she lived there for a while?

In my case, I was born in Turkey and only lived there for three years. I have the Dutch nationality and lived in Holland about half of my life. The rest of my 31 years were spent in six other countries. For now I don't have the urge to relocate back to Turkey to live there permanently, although I love going on holiday there and especially enjoy the food! The same goes for Holland: I like visiting the country but wouldn't want to live there, except if I got a really good job at Schiphol Airport maybe.

I suppose you have to consider all the options to make a decision, so much depends on your personal situation and what your significant other wants. In the end you want to do what's best for your family. Weather shouldn't play too big a role in this decision, in my opinion. I mean, every climate has its pros and cons. The two main criteria are the quality of living and the work conditions. A mortgage shouldn't be a limiting factor; sell the house and pay it off. Or rent the house out while you're not living there. More important is the question whether education for your child is better or worse in the new situation, and if your wife has a job now, whether she can get an equally rewarding or better job. Or maybe she wants to stop working?

Just give everything a good thought but don't let it overwhelm you. Take your time to think about it and don't rush things. Good luck with whatever you decide!


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12438 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

I've been here in Jersey for about 12 years; I would love to go home, but with the Irish economy going through a difficult time, I don't think now is the best time. My mother would love me to come home (and always mentions it when we speak); I haven't started looking for a job back home, but I do intend to come home within the next 12 months, although not this side of Christmas.

I appreciate the problem you find yourself in, particularly given that your wife has a very good job and might not be able to find herself an equivalent job in Ireland; not being married yet, I don't have that to deal with. However, I do miss home and I do feel isolated at times (although with Skype and internet, not so much now). I try and get home every six weeks - or three months at most.

One of the things holding me back was the cost of housing and now since that's coming down, it looks (on the face of it) a good time to come home; however, that's probably just a factor of the slowing economy and when it starts cooking again (which it will), that will change. In short, I'll be in Ireland within the next 2 years, but I just don't know when or how it's going to happen.


User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

I feel for your Toulouse, to be honest i've not any experience with this at all.

I will say I've made many friends that have moved into Ireland from all over the world, most live around Dublin and with the exception of one person who missed her family everyone loves it here and has no intention of moving home they love it here. I have a friend from Columbia who is living in India at the moment who has lived in Ireland for two years, she can't wait to move back "home" to Ireland.

All I know is I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. Best of luck with the decision and I hope what ever you choose it will all work out and you'll all be happy.



John Hancock
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14011 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2218 times:

Well, when I returned to Germany from Ireland, the choice was made easy for me by the new paycheck tripling my income, while halving my living expenses. Also, at this time I still had a wife at home (though the marriage soon broke up after I was back full time, she had changed a lot during the time I was abroad (e.g. turning from a moderate Muslim to a fanatic born-again Christian) and I realised that during my time abroad she only needed me for the regular check I would send home every month. In fact, if I had met my current girlfriend (in ireland) 6 months earlier, instead of just a few days before leaving Ireland, I would probably have staid. (though "home" just means Germany for me, I'm originally a city boy from Berlin, now I live in a village in a very rural province with a totally different mentality, I might as well live in another country).

One thing you must remember: The people in your home country are usually not much interested in your experience abroad and how things were done in the other country, even if it is a better way.

Still today I'm sometimes contemplating returning to Ireland just to be with my Missus, but on the other hand thinking about theb high living expenses and salaries, which are lower than what I would get here, plus the 9 month rainy season, stopps me.
If I would get a nice job in a mediterranen country though, I could imagine to move there.

Jan


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2215 times:



Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 1):
I think weather is a very bad criteria to rule out a destination, (unless it's the north pole).

I disagree. Many people get seasonal affective disorder (my sister does) and weather is a huge deal for them. I despise the weather in ireland we used to use Shannon as a crew rest point so I spend much of the first two years with my company there. I made the best of it but I loathed going there largely because of the horrible weather (the always mildewy smell inside the buildings due to the weather didn't help my fondness for the country much either). I don't even remember one completely nice day. In fact I don't remember a period of good weather there longer than 2 hours straight. I'd be miserable there full time. If your wife is unhappy you will be too.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4635 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2179 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Thread starter):
This is a HUGE summary of my current “dilemma”, just throwing it out to see what opinions/ideas are thrown at me, and I’ll certainly add to the thread.

It's a tough one, especially since you're married with a child. There's other people to think of and that doesn't make it any easier.

For me, I only planned to be in Ireland for 11 months, then I was going to go to Canada for 11 months and then back home. It's three years and four months in Dublin now and I've definitely made the right decision. Also, compared to you I am only really just starting out in Dublin.

I went through a major period of homesickness at the end of last year, but then I realised I was being my own worst enemy in so many ways, mainly in allocating all my money to expensive flights home to Australia. So I pulled my finger out - bought a laptop, decided to go to college here, and basically changed the way I was doing things.

I think you're lucky in that you're relatively close to your home country. Also remember the grass is always greener... as much as I love Sydney, I know if I were to go back and essentially start my life again, it would be fairly difficult and a big change compared to my life here. I am not at all ready to face that kind of change again, especially now that I am relatively settled in Ireland.

Actually, the last time I was in Australia (July/August), when I left it was the first time I had left the country without feeling a major pang about leaving.

Just think it through - you could always do a year and see if it's what you think it will be... good luck anyway, it's not a good decision to have to make, but you need to make one either way. That said, there is no rush, so mull it over. Only you and your wife can make a decision, so don't take what is said here to be too much of an indicator  Smile



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineJWMD123 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2173 times:

Toulouse, i can give you a slightly different angle.

Myself, I was born in the UK to Irish parents who moved over in the 70's (not together, they met over there).

Anyway, I grew up in England but one big thing I was always taught was to hang on to my heritage. I in a sense grew up in a Irish community. During my younger days in school most of my friends had parents who were from Ireland also. We went out to Irish clubs, celebrated all that was Irish and I even remember when you had to pay into places to watch the GAA finals!!!
Anyway, we would always visit Ireland every year and I always enjoyed it.
Then about 10 years ago I came over with my father for a family do. I met a young lady (who I am proud to say is my wife now) and we really hit it off. I used to commute every couple of weeks back and forth for about a year (I built up some miles then). Anyway, it got to a stage where one of us had to make a decision. I am the kind of person who will give anything a chance, so, bag packed and off to Ireland (FR at the time charged me a fortune for excess baggage!!!!!!)
Fast forward 10 years and I am now happily married and have a beautiful daughter (Nearly 7 weeks old).
When I first came over I had already arrange a job and have worked my way to where I am now.
I have a good life, I live in a nice town (I commute to Dublin) and have a good bunch of friends and family near by (I moved to the town my father is from).

What I would say is whilst my time over here I have seen a change in people's attitude towards money and material things, I still notice that the core value of Irish people has not been lost; kindness and generosity (There a exceptions like every where).

Ireland is maturing, if that is the best way to describe it. I think the current downturn will make a lot of people think about their lives and to a certain degree will be a good thing. People have to realise the are bad times as well as good.

One thing I would say, I believe is that both you and your wife would have to be committed to the move. I have often said it to my wife about moving to the UK. I think she would only move if she had to (work for me).

Anyway, that is my two cents. I hope it helps.

John


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2162 times:



Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):

Thanks for your whole post. It's very interesting. It seems an awful lot of Irish people who left the country in the past want to return, I know I'm not alone.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):
Although there are a lot of positive things about living in Ireland, I've noticed a lot of negatives and the biggest one affects my family the most. They all have really well paid jobs, huge homes and nice cars which is basically everything we don't have but they've also got something we'd rather not have, debt and a lot it.

That is very true for many people.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):
you've got the advantage of having a flexible job and if moving back to Ireland has a positive impact on your career and life I can see why it would be so tempting

Yes, for me there is really no difficulty at all. To be honest, the only thing that is keeping me in France is that my wife and son are here, if it weren't for that I'd go without a second thought. And professionnally, I know I could do MUCH better financially in Ireland than in France.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):
It sounds like you would be happy in Ireland because of the way of life that there is now not because you miss the life you used to have which is the dilemma my family have

Yes, you've totally understood me.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):
you can get used to climate and complaining about it would become a hobby but there might be other reasons to discuss.

Totally agree on that.

Quoting Levent (Reply 4):
has your wife been to Ireland frequently as well or has she lived there for a while?

She visited a lot when she was young (we met there 17 years ago, she used to go to study English), and apart from that we usually get over on a family visit once or twice a year (compared to 5 to 10 visits to her family in Spain a year!).

Quoting Levent (Reply 4):
so much depends on your personal situation and what your significant other wants

That is so very true, and that is really the only element complicating this matter for me.
Granted, a couple of years ago I brought it up and it was a no no. Recently she suggested it, but as a temporary move, but now I'm just subtely briging up the possibility to see what happens.

Quoting Levent (Reply 4):
In the end you want to do what's best for your family

True, but how does one decide that. I don't like the way France is going. My French neighbours are perplexed that we don't go to Ireland, a number of them often say "just go, you're crazy staying here in France, there is no future for you and especially for your kids"...
Granted the French like to complain.

Quoting Levent (Reply 4):
Weather shouldn't play too big a role in this decision, in my opinion. I mean, every climate has its pros and cons.

Totally agree.

Quoting Levent (Reply 4):
The two main criteria are the quality of living and the work conditions

Yes, and I know both of these would be better in Ireland. Sure I'll miss the sun, the warmth, having dinner in the garden frequently for 6 months of the year, but there's more to life than that!

Quoting Levent (Reply 4):
Just give everything a good thought but don't let it overwhelm you. Take your time to think about it and don't rush things. Good luck with whatever you decide!

Thank you. And I have no intention of running into it. I tend to be impulsive, but I feel this decision is too important (simply given my wife's possible apprehensions).

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
I appreciate the problem you find yourself in, particularly given that your wife has a very good job and might not be able to find herself an equivalent job in Ireland

Exactly Kaitak.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
I try and get home every six weeks - or three months at most.

I do the same, and more frequently now for business, which has been an eye-openner for me. I find foing business in Dublin so much more dynamic, and straight-forward than here in France.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
One of the things holding me back was the cost of housing and now since that's coming down, it looks (on the face of it) a good time to come home;

This was going through my mind as well, but as you say, now is a good time.

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 6):
I feel for your Toulouse

Thanks Smokeyrosco, it really isn't a very pleasant situation to be on. To be honest, the more I refelect on it the more miserable I am abroad, it's nearly turning me off France. I love France, but I've realised Ireland is home. When I step on the Aer Lingus plane in Toulouse, even 16 years after leaving, I feel i'm home. I feel there is a bond with the people. Of course another fear I have down the road is that as my wife's time outside of Spain gets as long as mine, she may develop the same feelings, and while I loved my 10 years in Spain, there is no way I want to live there (retiring there might be ok, but not working).

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 6):
I will say I've made many friends that have moved into Ireland from all over the world, most live around Dublin and with the exception of one person who missed her family everyone loves it here and has no intention of moving home they love it here. I have a friend from Columbia who is living in India at the moment who has lived in Ireland for two years, she can't wait to move back "home" to Ireland.

I meet so many foreigners when in Dublin (must say a vast majority are Polish) who all say what a wondersful place Ireland is, that they feel home in Dublin and have no intentions of leaving (despite the "exodus" spoken of on the radio).

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 6):
All I know is I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

You are spot on there friend!

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Well, when I returned to Germany from Ireland, the choice was made easy for me by the new paycheck tripling my income, while halving my living expenses

That was easy. Life has got fairly expensive in France in the past 6 years, tax is pure daylighte robbery, and the salaries are shite. My wife has a good job, managerial position, but the salaries are a joke. In my case, I have a fairly reliable guarantee (but not 100% as I'm not an employee like you) that my financial income and stability would improve greatly in Ireland.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Still today I'm sometimes contemplating returning to Ireland just to be with my Missus, but on the other hand thinking about theb high living expenses and salaries, which are lower than what I would get here, plus the 9 month rainy season, stopps me.

I do understand you, and I suppose it depends on your profession, as there are so many foreigners there just because of the high salaries.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 8):
the always mildewy smell inside the buildings due to the weather didn't help my fondness for the country much eith

When was this? Not something I've noticed (not the rain LOL, but the smell inside buildings). Of course, Shannon being on the Atlantic coast, it does get bashed a bit more than Dublin.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 8):
I don't even remember one completely nice day. In fact I don't remember a period of good weather there longer than 2 hours straight. I'd be miserable there full time

You were unfortunate, there are plenty of sunny days in Ireland, we can even go days without rain. I've seen it, I promise! Granted a lot of the time it's miserable, but as many french friends say to me that's the price we have to pay for having such a beautiful landscape.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 8):
If your wife is unhappy you will be too.

IAirAllie, you are spot on on that one, and that is all that's holding me back...

Thanks all for the input so far. It is actually of help. Thanks all!



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26957 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

When I moved here 12 years ago it took me a while to adapt. Mainly because the North was going through a transition period and there was still alot of issues. Now I live in the border counties so am in the South as much as I am in the North. I have to say I would not move from Ireland. I have a great circle of friends and collegues in the industry and have the freedom to do what I want.

I get the chance to travel anywhere I want and the money is great. I have a much higher standard of living here in Ireland than I could ever have anywhere else. I used to think that if I had alot of money I would move to Athens near to my Mums side of the family but the more years I stay here the less I want to move. My two homes are Ireland and Greece but I think I will always be here in Ireland if I am realistic. I do hate the cold weather and would love to be in the Greek Summer but I guess you cant have everything. At least here I have the money to jet off to the Sun.

For you my friend you must think about your Sons education. Will he have better schooling here in Ireland and what kind of culture and society do YOU want him to grow up in. Your wife will move if she really feels that your families best interests would be served by living in Ireland. Its a big decision but only you can make it. Write down on paper all the plus and minus sides of staying and then do the same for moving. Look at them and maybe it will help you make a decision.

On the other side of the coin there is no point moving if your wife will be as down as you are there right now. I guess you need to really talk seriously and then choose.

From a totally selfish point of view If you move here we could all meet up every now and then and go spotting LOL.....  Smile

I wonder if you would miss those boring A380's flying over your garden  Wink


User currently offlineEISHN From Ireland, joined Feb 2007, 1509 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

Right Toulouse, here's my experience.

I was born to an American mother, who had Irish parents, and went back to Ireland a few times during her childhood. She always felt Irish while she was out there, and never felt like a true American. She met my dad, an Irishman who moved out to LA with some friends. A year after meeting they were married (exactly 365 days later!), and i popped round a short while later. After a year in LA, we moved to Ireland. It nearly killed my mother. We lived with my grandparents for 6 months, and my mother had very little contact with the rest of the world, and then we got a house in Swords, but things remained pretty much the same, and she became incredibly depressed, and said the only thing that stopped her from leaving Ireland at that time was that her parents were dead, her brother and sister wouldn't have been much help, and she didn't want to take me away from my father. She stuck it out. We spent 6 months in SEA, and a year in TLS cause of Dad and his job, and she loved both.
We moved to where we are now, and have been here 9 years. She was still unhappy, and we are still here. She tried many times to move back, but we couldn't, and after a while, the rest of us lost interest in it, and now I, who used to consider myself American, now considers myself Irish, with my US passport meaning only easy travel and the ability to vote, and not much more. We had the chance to move to SEA last year, and were quite close, but I vetoed as it was to the wrong time I felt. What a mistake.
One year on my parents are separating after 19 years together, and the move to SEA could have stopped that. She has always felt that she would have been a better mother had she stayed in the US, and her time in Ireland has changed her from the person she used to be, and she likes to remind us of that.

Not to be all doom and gloom, but the consequences of this decision can effect so many areas of your life. My father ignored my mothers wishes for years to move back, and now she's leaving him, albeit just down the road. My mother has never been 100% happy here, and I never think she will. You seem to have been quite happy abroad and it has treated you well. Do you have a second home in Ireland? If so, then I suggest you maybe stay where you are and make the regular commute back and forth. TLS-DUB is a lot shorter and cheaper that SNN-LAX!

I just thought I would share what I have, cause i see some similarity between your predicament and my experience.



St. Flannan/ Fhlanain- She took off to find the footlights, And I took off for the sky
User currently offlineF1eddie From Ireland, joined May 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

As people have said above "what a decision you have to make". I have been away in OZ for 13 months and the UK for a year in college, but those for me were just times to get out of home. I knew i would always come back, and have no interests in living anywhere else. In fact in OZ i crafted a very good skill at being able to tell if a person walking down the street was irish or not (and no they wernt waring jerseys and the likes). I did enjoy myself but i knew it was a fixed time away from home.

Also i worked on a building site in birmingham and i met many irish who moved over there 30 and 40years ago and still had there strong accents. One of these guys actually made the move back to ireland, only lasted 5 years, and had to move back to the UK as he was away for to long, and probaly did not come home as much as you do.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
Yes, and I know both of these would be better in Ireland. Sure I'll miss the sun, the warmth, having dinner in the garden frequently for 6 months of the year, but there's more to life than that!

Did you not say you go to spain 5 times a year.... Surely thats enough sun (well i suppose i am talking about a woman here). Also financially you will be better off as you would be saving yourselves two sectors on flights. You would only have to fly back and fourth to spain. So maybe more trips home for your wife...

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
That was easy. Life has got fairly expensive in France in the past 6 years, tax is pure daylighte robbery, and the salaries are shite. My wife has a good job, managerial position, but the salaries are a joke. In my case, I have a fairly reliable guarantee (but not 100% as I'm not an employee like you) that my financial income and stability would improve greatly in Ireland.

So would this pay increase be able to let your wife become a house mother, or maybe work part time, or am i being stupid here even thinking along these lines. Also would it be possible for you rent your house in france to cover your morguage, if you decided to take a year and see how it goes.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
On the other side of the coin there is no point moving if your wife will be as down as you are there right now. I guess you need to really talk seriously and then choose.

Very good point..



Flown on EI, FR, BMI, TG, PG, FD, JQ, DJ, LA, NZ, SQ, DL, LX, LH
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2037 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
I've seen it, I promise!

Not so sure I believe it I spent more time there my first two years with this company than I did at home, literally. I'm originally from Vancouver BC so I've lived in a drizzly climate but Ireland was too much even for me.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
When was this?

2004-2006ish. Hate radiator heating in a damp climate. Nothing ever dries out properly.


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1966 times:

Again, thanks all for your great input.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
It's a tough one, especially since you're married with a child. There's other people to think of and that doesn't make it any easier.

You can say that again, it is a "tough one". And it's mainly tough because as you rightly say it's not just me/

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
For me, I only planned to be in Ireland for 11 months



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
It's three years and four months in Dublin now and I've definitely made the right decision

I know many foreigners in Ireland in your exact same position, many friends (mainly Spaniards) who went for a couple of months and are still there 2, 3, 5 and even 10 years later.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
Also remember the grass is always greener...

That is so very true, and that's one of my fears. Am I seeing Ireland as a tourist maybe? I've often considered this, as this has been playing on my mind for a number of years, and is only surfacing now, so I have been considering it a lot.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
Actually, the last time I was in Australia (July/August), when I left it was the first time I had left the country without feeling a major pang about leaving.

I know how you feel, I was actually always happy to head back to Madrid for the first couple of years after leaving Ireland, but for at least the last 10 years, it's the complete opposite, I feel down as I take off from Dublin...

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
you could always do a year and see if it's what you think it will be...

That is a strong possibility. But I do feel I want to settle properly. Best for the family as well.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
That said, there is no rush, so mull it over.

Very true, but as I've said it's nothing new. perhaps my mistake has not been open about it for years with my wife. I just let it eat away at me. People have now noticed and feel that I am "miserable", which to an extent I am. My family noticed, and my sister's boyfriend actually got it out of me recently and brought it to a head and now they're all worried. i'm playing it down with them as I don't want to be influenced by them. But you are right, I will have to mull oevr it with the Missus, which I should have done years ago.

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 10):
What I would say is whilst my time over here I have seen a change in people's attitude towards money and material things, I still notice that the core value of Irish people has not been lost; kindness and generosity (There a exceptions like every where).

Your post is very interesting. I strongly believe in your above observations.

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 10):
Ireland is maturing, if that is the best way to describe it. I think the current downturn will make a lot of people think about their lives and to a certain degree will be a good thing. People have to realise the are bad times as well as good.

I also fully agree with you.

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 10):
One thing I would say, I believe is that both you and your wife would have to be committed to the move. I have often said it to my wife about moving to the UK. I think she would only move if she had to (work for me).

That's the problem, I'm not sure how committed my wife will be. She'd probably give it a try, but I'm quite sure I'll be very happy there, and I'm afraid she won't (I think she could, but am not 100% sure) and what if she isn't? Does that mean one of us is going to have to be unhappy where we are. This is my sole and largest fear.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
For you my friend you must think about your Sons education. Will he have better schooling here in Ireland and what kind of culture and society do YOU want him to grow up in

I do, and to be honest while France and Ireland, as EU countries are similar in many ways, so the differences won't be that pronounced, I don't think there is much of a difference. I do feel education is better in Ireland, in France it's still vfery old-fashioned and elitist. Regarding "society" the only thing that concerns me is the "drinking culture" amongst the young (I see it with my nephews and nieces), and this concerns me. yet I do find them to be much more rounded youngsters, more open-minded than the youth here.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
Your wife will move if she really feels that your families best interests would be served by living in Ireland.

Yes, but how will she see that. Perhaps a trial is the only option, but as above, I've expressed my fears about this. Don't get me wrong, I know nothing is ever definitive, it could be me who'll hate being back there, but I'm quite sure that won't be the case.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
Write down on paper all the plus and minus sides of staying and then do the same for moving. Look at them and maybe it will help you make a decision.

Good way of approaching such decisions. I'll do it. Have done a quick mental one, and to be honest, Ireland is well in the lead.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
On the other side of the coin there is no point moving if your wife will be as down as you are there right now.

Exactly, but what then? Not wanting to sound selfish, but doers this mean I just have to accept I'll be down here and try to cope with it?

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
I guess you need to really talk seriously and then choose.

Exactly!

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
From a totally selfish point of view If you move here we could all meet up every now and then and go spotting LOL..

 Big grin

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
I wonder if you would miss those boring A380's flying over your garden

Sure I'm fed up seeing them at this stage, as boring as an A320 or B737  Wink

Quoting EISHN (Reply 13):
I just thought I would share what I have, cause i see some similarity between your predicament and my experience.

Thanks EISHN. I'm sorry to hear about your parents. your post is excellent, and I do fear this whole thing could end up affecting the marriage/relationship, no matter which decision we take, thsi is a big worry.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 14):
As people have said above "what a decision you have to make".

You can say that again!

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 14):
Surely thats enough sun (well i suppose i am talking about a woman here)

Good point! And it's usually cheaper to fly DUB - MAD than TLS - MAD.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 14):
Also financially you will be better off as you would be saving yourselves two sectors on flights. You would only have to fly back and fourth to spain. So maybe more trips home for your wife...

Again, a good point, may just use this argument.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 14):
So would this pay increase be able to let your wife become a house mother, or maybe work part time, or am i being stupid here even thinking along these lines.

Firstly, she is not too much into being a house mother. I think new earnings based there would allow this, but it would definitely take a year or so to reach this, thus maybe a one year trial isn't a stupid idea. I know she has a right to take a year or even 2 years off work, a sort of sabbatical year, and she did recently suggest she might be open to this.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 14):
Also would it be possible for you rent your house in france to cover your morguage, if you decided to take a year and see how it goes.

Definitely a possibility, and probably just what we would do in case we decided we wanted to return and the move was as good an idea as it seems today.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

I haven't got any specific advice, but would like to share my experiences on this subject.

I spent the first few years of my life in Athens, Greece. My parents are Lebanese and knew not much other than Lebanon until my dad's company moved their regional headquarters from Beirut to Athens when civil war broke out in 1976. When I was a child, we moved back to Lebanon briefly and then my dad changed jobs - over the next 20 years I spent 2 years in Cyprus, 3 years in the UK, 2 years in Turkey, 8 years in California, another year in the UK, and almost 3 in Dubai now, of which 1 was spent mostly in Saudi Arabia.

The upshot of all this is that I really don't have a home to speak of in the same sort of way that Toulouse calls Ireland home. I feel the most at home in Lebanon, but I haven't lived there since I was 4. I feel the most "at home" in my surroundings in California, because that's where my parents and dog live, and we've had the house there for ages. But I don't really fit 100% anywhere.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you have a yearning to return home, and you are able to return home and still find it the same as you left it or better, then why not go for it if that option is available? It's a beautiful thing for person to live in his own country, surrounded by his own people, participating in culture and traditions that align with his identity. It's also extremely rare nowadays.

At the same time however it's also fantastic in this globalised world to enjoy other places and cultures.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineF1eddie From Ireland, joined May 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1925 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 16):
That's the problem, I'm not sure how committed my wife will be. She'd probably give it a try, but I'm quite sure I'll be very happy there, and I'm afraid she won't (I think she could, but am not 100% sure) and what if she isn't? Does that mean one of us is going to have to be unhappy where we are. This is my sole and largest fear.

This struck a cord with me and also relating with something you said earlier. Will your wife in a few years time also want to move home. So you just get on the band wagen first.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 16):
Regarding "society" the only thing that concerns me is the "drinking culture" amongst the young (I see it with my nephews and nieces), and this concerns me. yet I do find them to be much more rounded youngsters, more open-minded than the youth here.



I would not let this concern you. I grew up in times of wealth in ireland and i never drank in fields, never got arrested, never did anything crazy. That being said i was no saint and i did drink underage. But it was a respectful attitude towards the "drink" given to me by my parents. My parents brough me up that way and im sure you will bestow that same attuitude in yours.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 16):
Firstly, she is not too much into being a house mother. I think new earnings based there would allow this, but it would definitely take a year or so to reach this, thus maybe a one year trial isn't a stupid idea. I know she has a right to take a year or even 2 years off work, a sort of sabbatical year, and she did recently suggest she might be open to this.

Thats what i taught. Sure she could still get a job here and get one thats not stressful and she may really enjoy. What are her hobbies or maybe some business she could set up?? I dont think our economiy is anything to be worried about. Its only the building industry and related industries which are in a dreadful state. Thats why im out of work (but i think i bagged a job today in a shop in dundrum).

I also know a few spanish living here and enjoy it a lot.



Flown on EI, FR, BMI, TG, PG, FD, JQ, DJ, LA, NZ, SQ, DL, LX, LH
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1920 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Thread starter):
This is a HUGE summary of my current “dilemma”, just throwing it out to see what opinions/ideas are thrown at me, and I’ll certainly add to the thread.
Thanks!
Toulous

Whatever you don't romanticize it. Life's a lot better anywhere with a full pay envelope and a sense of purpose. That was always the main reason I moved frome here to there.

The best thing in life is to do exactly what you want. The next best thing is to get paid enough so you can think about what you really want.

I guess I'm sort of an internal expat-we've got the geography and disparate cultures for that kind of thing. I could never see myself living east of the Mississippi again. On the rare occasions I find a reason to revisit New Jersey, it looks stranger and stranger to me. Of course it helps that the Dragon Lady is also my best friend.

I guess the test is how it makes you feel inside.


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1901 times:



Quoting Airxliban (Reply 17):
I haven't got any specific advice, but would like to share my experiences on this subject.

Airxliban, tahnks for sharing your experience, it is interesting to read people's experiences and from their experience one can get some hints, help, reminders, suggestions, things to think about...

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 17):
The upshot of all this is that I really don't have a home to speak of in the same sort of way that Toulouse calls Ireland home.

I do actually fully understand you. I suppose the fact I did spend my first 18 years in Ireland helps me see Ireland as home, and the fact that I've remained in constant contact with it. I do feel once you move, especially while young, you loose your roots (this may even make life easier).

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 17):
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you have a yearning to return home, and you are able to return home and still find it the same as you left it or better, then why not go for it if that option is available?

That is simple, but so true. Sometimes spending too much time thinking can just complicated matters. A member of our Irish threads PM's me yesterday (I must answer that member now) but they said something that got to me which was basically "go with your heart"...and that's how I've always been, so why not?

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 17):
It's a beautiful thing for person to live in his own country, surrounded by his own people, participating in culture and traditions that align with his identity. It's also extremely rare nowadays.

Very true words, and I am proud to be proud of being Irish and wanting to live there. For me, as an Irish person, perhaps Ireland is the best place on earth (I am however aware, that that is for me, as one's own land is usually the best in the world in their eyes). This just goes to show how important it is to be integrated in, belong to and feel part of a people, of a nation. I do think as western countries go, Ireland is quite an easy one to get this feeling in for non-natives, as has been expressed by a number of "foreigners" here living in Ireland.

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 17):
At the same time however it's also fantastic in this globalised world to enjoy other places and cultures.

That is very true.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 18):
So you just get on the band wagen first.

That ain't bad advice pal!

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 18):
That being said i was no saint and i did drink underage

Sure who wasn't?

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 18):
My parents brough me up that way

That is the key, and you are right in saying I shouldn't worry about the "drink culture" too much.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 18):
im sure you will bestow that same attuitude in yours.

Thank you, and I do intend to and hope I'll achieve it.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 18):
What are her hobbies or maybe some business she could set up??

She has many hobbies, she's very active. Deep down if she openned to the idea, I think she'd get on great in Ireland. When she was younger she adored Ireland. She speaks perfect English and with an Irish accent (while she lived in the UK many people used to ask her what part of Ireland she was from!!)... not bad for a Spaniard! She is a little introvert, but I've seen her blossoming and coming out of herslef when surrounded by the Irish, who always seem to love her. I do think she could be very "at home" in Ireland. I just need to be sure her heart is in it, as if not, I doubt it'll work. So back to perhaps the idea of a "trial year" there...

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 18):
I dont think our economiy is anything to be worried about.

I'm of the same opinion. And living in France, and for those of you in Ireland who are all depressed about the economy, I can assure you things are much better where you are.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 18):
but i think i bagged a job today in a shop in dundrum

My fingers are crossed for you! Talking about Dundrum, my dad used to work there, and last week while back in Dublin with a bit of free time I decided to take a spin out to see the nex Dundrum Town centre (a shopping centre). My God, I hadn't been there for maybe 15 years at least, used to be a village then. Never mind the shopping centre, which is HUGE, I couldn't get over all the new apartment blocks, the impressive LUAS (tramway) bridge... The old village is still there, charming today surrounded by all the modern development, and of course much livlier than before. I really couldn't get over it, and you know what? They haven't done a bad job at all developing that place.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 19):
Life's a lot better anywhere with a full pay envelope and a sense of purpose.

I do agree with you. Of course that's part of what's pulling me, as well as the personal nostalgia.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 19):
The best thing in life is to do exactly what you want

Well said.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 19):
The next best thing is to get paid enough so you can think about what you really want.

You are a man of wise words Dougloid!



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1881 times:

As far as children go they are pretty resilliant. We moved a lot growing up. I allways looked forward to it as an adventure. The upside is I feel comfortable in a wide range of situations with a wide range of people. I learned early to be adaptable. The drawback is when people ask me where I am from I never know what to say.

User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1835 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 20):
She is a little introvert, but I've seen her blossoming and coming out of herslef when surrounded by the Irish, who always seem to love her.

Well, they probably think she's got an uncanny resemblance to the painting of great great great great great grandfather Jose what got washed up in 1588 and ended up a vassal to the O'Rourke.

Just kidding of course. A little historical diversion is all-my grandfather on mother's side was a Gallagher from Nova Scotia.


 Wink


User currently offlineAer Lingus From Ireland, joined May 2000, 1560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1800 times:



Quoting F1eddie (Reply 14):
In fact in OZ i crafted a very good skill at being able to tell if a person walking down the street was irish or not

its entertaining to play "Spot the Paddy" while abroad, although i have got it wrong on occasion. prime example being in work in the airport, this couple came up to me and while asking them questions i began to speak slowly and clearly as they looked eastern european. when i asked for their boarding cards in infant english i got the whole "yeah sure no worries buddy".......he was a dub through and through!

on another occasion i was serving a chap with red hair, freckles and pale skin. turned out to be a turk with a very turkish name!

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 10):
What I would say is whilst my time over here I have seen a change in people's attitude towards money and material things, I still notice that the core value of Irish people has not been lost; kindness and generosity

depends who you mix with. my own experiecnes tend to lead to a view of that most people over here are fickle and backstabbers. i've had more unfavourable experiences growing up in dublin that favourable ones. people are greedy, arrogant and have high opinions of themselves. the down to earth irish are becoming few and far between. i have my friends and have learned my lessons over the years and am much the wiser for it.

on the flip side Toulouse I am thinking of doing what you have done, and thats to up and go. in my line of work i have a job almost anywhere. i would love to give somewhere in europe a try. i did an internship for four months in New York and loved every minute of it. i was never homesick but i always knew i was coming home so i guess that helped. I don't think I could live in the US though, I dont think i'd be happy there after a year. europe i'd be more into giving a shot at and london would prob be a starting point. indeed my higest income potential is either the UK or Ireland (or the UAE!)

on a more upbeat experience which may help you, my parents are irish, met in ireland and moved to london for over 15 years. they made a life for themselves there, had a great house in Ealing and raised two children to their teens. They were happy and had no intention of moving. then things got bad work wise and they had to leave and return home. my mother despised the idea and now had two kids who had no desire to leave their home. 25 years later they have never been happier. i came along since they came back so i'm the only true irish kid in the family and everything ended up hunky dory. my mother has always said that she would never have left london had they not needed to but the move was one she was glad they made in the end. ironically one of my sisters who grew up in london has since returned there and has no intention of returning home.

i guess the moral of the story is that home is where the heart lies and that does seem to be where you were born.

for me, i hate the waether and i'm not terribly fond of the people here but ireland is my home and i absolutely adore it. the heritage, the culture, the traditions and the cities and towns. if i do end up giving somewhere else a try i still have a feeling i'll always want to come back. with my line of work im fairly sure i can do a year in another land and still return home but i have as big a dilemma as you have.....just in the opposite direction!


User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3303 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1795 times:
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First some background info on me.

My father was born in Greece, and my mother in Switzerland.
I was born in Landing, Michigan in 1987 and have lived in New York since 1989.
I have vacationed in Switzerland (and usually Greece) every summer since 1988 for 2 weeks in each country, and several winters in Switzerland. I have been to Switzerland 28 times (59 weeks total) and Greece 19 times (36 weeks total). I am an American citizen, speak French, Greek, and English all fluently and natively. My entire schooling has been completed here and I will graduate University with a Bachelor's degree in May.

Now for my contribution.

I long to be in Europe. I went there this summer and it was incredible. But I have this incredible desire to live there. It's not to say I don't like the USA, because I love it here, but the culture is so different, and I really want to be immersed in it. Therefore, I am planning on applying to jobs and/or grad schools ONLY in Europe. And maybe I'll get there and living there won't be everything I hope it is. Or maybe I'll love it and never come back to the USA. Or I may love it at first and get sick of it when I'm 35 and then come back here. But I figure while I'm young and have the chance to go over there and live somewhere I've always wanted to live, why not give it a shot and see where it leads??

I guess what I'm trying to say is do what feels right. You are in a slightly different situation as you need to consider the well-being of your entire family. But if you feel that strongly that moving back to Ireland would better your professional life and social life, then you should seriously discuss it with your family. If your wife really can't handle the climate (which is common, as stated by another poster above) then maybe it's not the wisest choice. However, it is very likely that she will grow accustomed to it rather quickly after the initial depression that might set in, but this is a risk with ANY big change in someone's life. Your family needs to look long-term. Your family's happiness is a hugely critical discussion topic and this is a decision that needs to be made as a family as a whole.

As you said, you were looking for feedback, so there's my views. Sorry I didn't give a concrete decision, and I apologize if I only said things you already knew (which is possible, given the huge amount of responses in this thread).

Good luck making your decision!

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
25 Braybuddy : I can understand your desire to move home, Toulouse, but if I were you I'd hold off on making a decision for the moment. Whatever you may think on you
26 Oa260 : Very true . My other half is the same and hates the heat now.
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