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Portugal Recognizes Kosovo  
User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

Portugal recognizes independent Kosovo

Quote:
The government of Portugal has recognized the independent Republic of Kosovo, report Kosovo's public television RTK and the Portuguese media.

"It is in the interests of the state of Portugal to proceed today to the official recognition of Kosovo as an independent and sovereign country. We are convinced that now independence of Kosovo is irreversible," Portuguese Foreign Minister Luis Amado told the Foreign Committee of the Portuguese Parliament.

According to the RTK report, Portuguese authorities will soon contact their Kosovo counterparts.

Portugal becomes the 22 European Union and 48 overall to recognize Kosovo. EU countries still to recognize are Cyprus, Slovakia, Spain, Greece and Romania.

Here is the link for the Portuguese Foreign Ministry, where they have the report of the recognition. (it's in Portuguese, couldn't find an English one yet)


This is big news, especially how the majority of people who were (and are) against the independence of Kosovo, thought that Portugal would never recognize. (or it would take years)

Also from that list of the EU countries that have not yet recognized, Greece has already started the process by recognizing the new passport of Kosovo and has already started issuing visas. So that leaves only Cyprus, Slovakia, Spain and Romania out of EU countries, and they all will act withing 6 months. (I'd be shocked if it went any longer)


Thank you Portugal. OBRIGADO!!!




delta.com
119 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3945 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2244 times:



Quoting IliriBDL (Thread starter):
Thank you Portugal. OBRIGADO!!!

Trust me, you have nothing to thank for.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2236 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 1):
Trust me, you have nothing to thank for.

I'm thanking Portugal for making the right decision, and standing up to Russia and their threats to not recognize Kosovo or else.... (they just made them this past week actually)



delta.com
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2128 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

...it is a shame it has to be this way. In the short run a politically viable thing to do, but in the long run I have serious reservations.

Generally on the unilateral illegal and indefensible declaration of independence by Kosovo, a quote by Santayana is appropriate I feel: "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,"

asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26854 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2203 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 1):
Trust me, you have nothing to thank for.



Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
.it is a shame it has to be this way.



Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
run I have serious reservations.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Did anyone see the BBC program last week on organised people trafficking in Kosovo? Its thriving and the government are turning a blind eye !! Nice country  Yeah sure  Yeah sure

---------------------------------------------------------



Kosovska Mitrovica, Kosovo - In Kosovo, the gulf between majority Albanians and minority Serbs is nowhere more visible than in the divided town of Kosovska Mitrovica.
But that hasn't stopped the town from being a magnet for criminals of all backgrounds willing to work together for an illicit buck.
Kosovska Mitrovica, 50 kilometres north-west of the Kosovo's capital Pristina, is a no-holds-frontier town without proper police or courts.
It is split in half by the ethnic division that sheared Kosovo away from its Serbian past earlier this year - the part of the town north of the Ibar river is the de-facto capital of the Serb enclave of North Kosovo, which wants no part of the independence the south of Kosovo has claimed for itself.
In the political vacuum, however, Albanian and Serbian gangs have, in a way, bridged the divide and work with ease across the Ibar running drugs, people, prostitutes, guns and most recently, fuel.
The general population meanwhile stays put in its respective part of Kosovo - the 2 million Albanians in three-quarters of Kosovo south of Ibar, the 40,000 Serbs in and around Mitrovica, in their quarter to the north, along the border with Serbia proper.
'I set a new personal best and drove the car 15 times in from northern Mitrovica,' Albanian Armend boasts to friends in a cafe and calls the next round of drinks for all. 'I spent 150 euros (213 dollars) and raked in 3,000, not bad, eh?'
Armend, 34, is just one of a multitude of jobless Kosovars. He has chosen to make a living by smuggling fuel from the Serbia, where he can buy unleaded Serbian-made benzine without taxes for just 50 euro- cents per litre.
The border zone between Serbia and Kosovo is off limits to anybody but NATO KFOR peacekeepers, whose job description does not include chasing smugglers.
Armand's car, as others coming in to a north-Mitrovica petrol station, is packed to the roof with barrels, canisters and bottles for up to 2,000 litres of fuel.
Before selling it to gas stations in southern Mitrovica for 90 euro-cents per litre and making up to 800 euros on one run, he must bribe the police guarding the bridge between the two sections to let him pass.
The policeman will look away from a car and forget to wonder what may be inside for 10 euros, Armend says. 'He plucks no less than 150 euros out of thin air each shift,' another smuggler chimes in. 'The 300-euro monthly salary is just a cherry on top.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne..._cross-border_smugglers__Feature__


User currently offlineAlexEU From Serbia, joined Oct 2007, 1817 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Today is the big day for Serbia. There will be a vote in UN assembly whether the Serbia has the right to ask int'l court if the independence of Kosovo is in accordance with international law.

Btw, Portugal was forced to recognized Kosovo! I wouldn't be surprised if Montenegro or FYROM also recognize it in few days.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

From Stability Point of view Worldwide.Is granting Independence to states carved from other states a right desicion or not needs to be debated.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Montenegro will recognize before Macedonia, I´m sure of that.

User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3765 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2167 times:



Quoting IliriBDL (Thread starter):
So that leaves only Cyprus,

Interesting that Cyprus hasn't moved on this yet. Something to do with the Turkish half of the island, perhaps?

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2163 times:



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 7):
Montenegro will recognize before Macedonia, I´m sure of that.

I agree with you Alessandro. Macedonia no the other hand has asked Kosovo to recognize their name first, before they recognize the independence. Kosovo leaders have said they won't do it that way. So I guess we'll find out.



delta.com
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

And Serbia just scored a diplomatic triumph at the United Nations....

The UN General Assembly has voted to refer Kosovo's independence declaration to the International Court of Justice.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7658103.stm



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2148 times:



Quoting IliriBDL (Thread starter):
Portugal recognizes independent Kosovo

-
the map on http://kosovothanksyou.com gradually looks better, whenever progress after the recognition from Samoa stalled in a way. Up to now, no Arab country has DONE the recognition, which is amazing. And few African countries.
-

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 1):
nothing to thank for.

-
I presume that Portugal simply recognized a reality. The Kosovaris however ARE grateful, as your country for their recognition process was fairly important.
-

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
a shame

-
While I can understand Spanish reservations about the matter, in view of the Basque problem, I might hope that the Spanish leadership at a given moment will jump accross its own shadow. But I suppose that the Spanish leadership will chose the moment it suits Spain best.
-

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 4):
last week on organised people trafficking in Kosovo? Its thriving and the government are turning a blind eye !! Nice country Yeah sure Yeah sure

-
by that criteria, recognition should be withdrawn from quite a variety of governments in that region.  Sad  Sad That the Kosovaris only needed half a year to join the troops is regrettable.
-

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 5):
Montenegro or FYROM also recognize it

-
Montenegro and Macedonia also are "splinters" out of former Yugoslavia and so out of logic and self-recognition of course WILL recognize Kosovo, they however waited in order NOT to anger Serbia too much.
-

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
.Is granting Independence to states carved from other states a right desicion or not needs to be debated.

-
It IS basically right. Even if it "violates" the post-WWII doctrine of irreversible borders and "territorial integrity" of existing states. The demise of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union "produced" new countries anyway, and countries like Somaliland and Puntland are lining up. Even if it is producing as late President Mitterand complained a "Europe of the Tribes".
-

Quoting Doona (Reply 8):
Interesting that Cyprus hasn't moved on this yet. Something to do with the Turkish half of the island, perhaps?

-
NOT "perhaps" but definitely. And it might be advisable for them NOT to do so for the time being, at least until the Arab countries and Israel have done so and nobody will make much ado about the step.


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2146 times:



Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 9):
Macedonia no the other hand has asked Kosovo to recognize their name first, before they recognize the independence.

Hahahaha... typical Balkans "pijaca"! You've gotta laugh!



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1794 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2134 times:



Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
...it is a shame it has to be this way. In the short run a politically viable thing to do, but in the long run I have serious reservations

Yup. Where should we stop now? TRNC? South Ossetia? Palestine? Kurdistan?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26854 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 12):
Hahahaha... typical Balkans "pijaca"! You've gotta laugh!


LOL.... well if Kosovo do that then they risk their own asses. Kosovo knows that negotiations are going on between Greece and FYROM and the EU only regognises it at the moment as ''FYROM''. If they decided to unilaterally regognise it as ''Macedonia'' then their EU hopes are finished by veto. I think if they are wise they will wait until a final ''name'' settlement comes and then regognise it by that. Unfortunatley Kosovo is caught between two parties. Do they upset a EU and NATO member even more or do they regognise a country that will in the end have to change its name in some shape or form even if its only on paper.

It has been reported that Greece may be willing to regognise Kosovo if Serbia is given fast track entry into the EU . So I presume Kosovo would rather have the support of Greece which has weight rather than support FYROM who is in stalemate.

[Edited 2008-10-08 09:54:06]

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2120 times:



Quoting JJJ (Reply 13):
Where should we stop now? TRNC? South Ossetia? Palestine? Kurdistan?

-
A justified question indeed !
-
> TRNC ? not now, as a re-unification may be at hand
> South Ossetia ? YES
> Palestine ? to my regret NEGative as NOT defacto independent but autonomous at best
> Kurdistan ? if (when) "Iraqi Kurdistan" declares independence as it will, YES


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2121 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
the EU only regognises it at the moment as ''FYROM''

-
the point is that the EU and the UN etc HAVE recognized Macedonia. "FYROM" is not a country name, not even an official name of a country, but rather a diplomatic "code". It is NOT "only" and diplomatic missions of Macedonia simply are "labelled" Macedonia.
-

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
do they regognise a country that will in the end

-
With a bit more flexibility they should "accept" the name and recognize the COUNTRY and get the recognition from that country. In correspondence with international organisations they were to use the FYROM-code and in direct communications simply the official name "Republic of Macedonia" .
-
THIS here is the Macedonian Embassy in Berne in the official Swiss telephone book :
-
Ambassade
Macédoine (de la République de Macédoine)
Kirchenfeldstrasse 30
3005 Bern
Telefon
* 031 352 00 28
und
Telefon
* 031 352 00 30
Fax
* 031 352 00 37
-
if however the Swiss Foreign Ministry writes to an international organisation and mentions Macedonia, they will use the Code "FYROM". If a letter however is written to that Embassy here in Switzerland, it most presumably will be addressed to :
Botschaft der Republik Mazedonien
-
and here now their Consulate General in Vaduz / Liechtenstein as it is in the official telephone-book :
-
Konsulat
Generalkonsulat der Republik Mazedonien
Am Schrägen Weg 14
9490 Vaduz
Telefon
* 00423 232 00 74
Fax
* 00423 232 06 30
-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
so that I cannot quite see the problem those folks in
Pristina have !


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26854 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2097 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
the point is that the EU and the UN etc HAVE recognized Macedonia. "FYROM" is not a country name, not even an official name of a country, but rather a diplomatic "code". It is NOT "only" and diplomatic missions of Macedonia simply are "labelled" Macedonia.

On all official EU and UN documents and treaties it must be ''FYROM'' . In any negotiations it must also be the same. Fact of the matter is people can call it what they want but until the issue is solved it will be FYROM and out of all major international organisations.

Even opinion in the USA is changing.

http://www.greekembassy.org/Embassy/files/NCEH%20AD23-09-20082.pdf


User currently offlineAlexEU From Serbia, joined Oct 2007, 1817 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2084 times:

Good job for Serbia! 77 countries voted in favor of Serbian resolution, 6 votes against, and others were either abstinent or were away.
Against Serbian resolution were: USA, Albania, Palau, Micronesia, Marshall Islands and Nauru...
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics...yyyy=2008&mm=10&dd=08&nav_id=54059
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
Up to now, no Arab country has DONE the recognition, which is amazing.

They now that:
1. They respect int'l law
2.. Kosovo is everything but not Islamic ''country''
3. They have internal problems or separatism

[Edited 2008-10-08 15:01:17]

User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2080 times:



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 18):
Palau, Micronesia, Marshall Islands and Nauru...

Uuuuuuuuuu... all of them combined would not make up the area of Belgrade Big grin



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26854 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2080 times:



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 18):
Good job for Serbia! 77 countries voted in favor of Serbian resolution, 6 votes against, and others were either abstinent or were away

Well done ..... Thats a great majority.

Quote ::::Greece, Cyprus, Spain and Romania voted in favor.



User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2066 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
the map on http://kosovothanksyou.com gradually looks better, whenever progress after the recognition from Samoa stalled in a way. Up to now, no Arab country has DONE the recognition, which is amazing. And few African countries.

Yeah it's kind of strange, especially with Kosovo having a majority muslim population. They'll probably be some of the last countries in the world to recognize.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 12):
Hahahaha... typical Balkans "pijaca"! You've gotta laugh!

lol, yeah man, that's how you do politics, Balkan style.  Wink

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
LOL.... well if Kosovo do that then they risk their own asses. Kosovo knows that negotiations are going on between Greece and FYROM and the EU only regognises it at the moment as ''FYROM''. If they decided to unilaterally regognise it as ''Macedonia'' then their EU hopes are finished by veto. I think if they are wise they will wait until a final ''name'' settlement comes and then regognise it by that. Unfortunatley Kosovo is caught between two parties. Do they upset a EU and NATO member even more or do they regognise a country that will in the end have to change its name in some shape or form even if its only on paper.

It has been reported that Greece may be willing to regognise Kosovo if Serbia is given fast track entry into the EU . So I presume Kosovo would rather have the support of Greece which has weight rather than support FYROM who is in stalemate.

Yeah man, Kosovo leaders have made it clear, that they will not recognize the name, simple as that. That's why it's taking Macedonia so long to recognize, they're kind of mad that the neighbor is not recognizing their name. lol

I hope Kosovo sticks with Greece's stance with this issue, and work on the relations with them. Greece is an important friend to have when it comes to Balkan issues. (and politics)

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 18):
Good job for Serbia! 77 countries voted in favor of Serbian resolution, 6 votes against, and others were either abstinent or were away.

I watched most of it on RTK here in the US. A lot of the countries that have recognized Kosovo said in their speeches that no matter what the outcome of the court is, there will be no turning back, but as democratic nations they supported the court system and allowed Serbia to make it's case.

It's not that important, and seeing how out of 192 countries, only 77 were in favor, tells you how much they thought about it. It was mostly South American, African, Middle Eastern countries. (let's say a lot of countries that "dislike" the United States)



delta.com
User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

Also here is some more news coming out a few hours ago.

Romania and Slovakia recognize Kosovar Passports

Quote:
During a press conference, Prime Minister of the Republic of Kosovo Hashim Thaçi announced that "Romania and Slovakia have recognized the Republic of Kosovo passports," expressing gratitude for both countries' contribution on maintaining the stability in the Balkans. Thaci also thanked Portugal for recognizing the independence of Kosovo.

Romania and Slovakia are two other countries that have not recognized Kosovo independence yet.



So that comes to Romania, Slovakia, Greece, Macedonia, Montenegro, countries that have recognized the Kosovar passport, but not the country yet, but lets you know somehow that they have realized the new reality and the actual recognition will come in the following months.

Also here is a link in Serbo-Croatian. (from dnevnik.hr)

[Edited 2008-10-08 17:41:00]


delta.com
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2030 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 17):
On all official EU and UN documents and treaties it must be ''FYROM'' . In any negotiations it must also be the same. Fact of the matter is people can call it what they want but until the issue is solved it will be FYROM and out of all major international organisations.

-
This is exactly what I said. AND it is "FYROM" on licences in civil aviation and other traffic accords. It will/would be very difficult to change this all, even in case Greece accepts the present name today.
-

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 18):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
Up to now, no Arab country has DONE the recognition, which is amazing.

They now that:
1. They respect int'l law
2.. Kosovo is everything but not Islamic ''country''
3. They have internal problems or separatism

-
1) respect international law ? oh sure, of course  Smile
2) most Arab countries are NOT "Islamic countries"
3) yes, regional minorities (West Sahara etc) might use the precedent
-

Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 21):
Kosovo leaders have made it clear, that they will not recognize the name

-
this is what I might call "the dispute over the beard-hairs of the prophet" or "tant de bruit pour une omelette". It sounds like nitpicking. They should "recognize" the name but make it clear that the "FYROM" code is to be used in all documents right along with the official name of that country.
-


User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2027 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
this is what I might call "the dispute over the beard-hairs of the prophet" or "tant de bruit pour une omelette". It sounds like nitpicking. They should "recognize" the name but make it clear that the "FYROM" code is to be used in all documents right along with the official name of that country.

The Macedonians aren't doing any good to their case by not recognizing Kosovo. Especially with having a big Albanian minority inside the country, they should have done it in the early stages. (march or april)


But yeah, there were was news earlier today that both Montenegro and Macedonia were to recognize sometime tonight. I'll let you guys know as soon as I get the news.



delta.com
25 OA260 : Lovely passports..... well the Cyrillic bit anyway LOL....
26 AlexEU : Montenegro officially recognized Kosovo as an independent country. No comment from me for now. Yeah, funny. Anyway, Slovakia and Greece had to recogni
27 Post contains links IliriBDL : Yeah it is, can't wait to get one next summer. I have the US passport, and I might claim the Serbian one as well since my dad has it. (he was born in
28 Oa260 : I know , cant trust those Montenegrans LOL... Best thing Serbia did was get its Independance from Montenegro... Hmm your welcome to it . I do also .
29 IliriBDL : Might exchange it for a German one in a few years. My #1 priority after college is to go back to EU. (together with my family that is)
30 Oa260 : Or a Swiss one Actually Id love a Swiss one , they are so cool.....
31 IliriBDL : lol, we have family there, but it's more extended family, cousins, etc. Unlike Germany, where my uncle and grandmother live, then 3 aunts, and much m
32 JoKeR : Montenegrin Ambassador to Serbia just declared persona non grata and asked to leave Belgrade in 24 hours! Nice move.... for some reason... I can't hi
33 Post contains links IliriBDL : They are reporting that they're recalling the Macedonian ambassador as well. But in other news Serbia reinstates ambassadors to United States.
34 JoKeR : The fact is that majority of people in both countries are fiercly opposed to Kosovo's independence - I guess US had a long "stick" here.
35 Post contains images Oa260 : They should send her to Pristina .... Im sure she would love that
36 IliriBDL : The Montenegrins of course accept the new reality and are for the independence, and as we all know the Serbians living there (a big minority) are aga
37 JoKeR : Apparently boutiques are not as nice as in Belgrade!
38 Oa260 : Oh I dont know maybe you could pick up some cheap illegal fuel and some AK47's in PRN .....lol...
39 Post contains links IliriBDL : Not funny. _________________________________________________ And now just in: BREAKING : Macedonia Adopts Kosovo Resolution So add the recognition of
40 OA260 : Oh I know but sadly TRUE never the less.
41 IliriBDL : You can buy those things illegally in any country in EU. But lets not go off topic.
42 AlexEU : Now that Macedonia recognized Kosovo, Serbia should recognize Macedonia as FYROM, not Republic of Macedonia... Or why not keep the US and add German,
43 IliriBDL : I would love to, but I think Germany has a law that prohibits it's citizens from having two passports. (I could be wrong) But I'm keeping the Kosovo
44 Post contains links Oa260 : But in Kosovo its easier to get an AK-47 than a Hamburger. “This pistol costs only 100 Euros,” says “Gagi”, a young gunrunner from Pristina,
45 AlexEU : Mentality between a person from Florida is totally different then somebody from Alaska...politics... Oh yes, you can travel to Cuba and Niger without
46 IliriBDL : Yeah agreed, I meant it in that sense. Whats more important I can visit Србија without any problems. haha
47 OA260 : Quick everyone alert the Serbian border controls that he is arriving LOL.....
48 ME AVN FAN : - If somebody recognizes either, it accepts the other. It is the same country. What name is used in the documents is of minor importance. Switzerland
49 AlexEU : and I can visit Kosovo with I.D. Switzerland recognizes Macedonia as Republic of Macedonia, so there is no really problem there. However Belgium and
50 IliriBDL : Haha, nice try.
51 ME AVN FAN : - and again, what is the problem ???????? It is absolutely the same country. You can recognize Switzerland as Switzerland/Schweiz/Suisse/Svizzera/Hel
52 AlexEU : Certainly, it's not a big deal, but the government in Skopje supports countries that recognize it by it's statute name, Republic of Macedonia.
53 ME AVN FAN : - well, Switzerland was not exactly in need of the support of their government, but as Switzerland recognizes countries and not governments, the thin
54 Deskflier : Okay, let's recognize the USA as Former British Colonies of North America, or FBCNA for short. In the case of the Arabs it might be antipathy to the
55 ME AVN FAN : sure ! would that change the fact WHOM we recognize ??? let's recognize Czechia as the "former Austria-Hungarian Bohemia and Moravia" etc ! It is jus
56 AlexEU : I am not going to discuss whether Kosovo has or doesn't have right of independence, but the unilateral independence of Kosovo is against the int'l la
57 JoKeR : Preparing for some hard partying in Belgrade soon, are we? Autumn is quite boring, all the mini-skirts are back in the closets and the tans have star
58 Oa260 : Nevermind , you still have the Serbian girls as an alternative
59 JoKeR : I did not see that one coming to bite me, well done, young man!
60 IliriBDL : lol, of course, maybe we can add Nis as well. Yeah, wish it was summer year round don't you Joker? haha
61 Post contains links OA260 : Clashes in Montenegro over Kosovo Protesters have clashed with police in the Montenegrin capital Podgorica at a rally against the government's decisio
62 IliriBDL : ^ Yeah it's mostly the ultra fans probably a lot came from Beograd for the protests. Happens all-over the Balkans with the young people in protests. (
63 ME AVN FAN : The U.A.E. as the first Arab country to do so, and the 51st country overall now has officially recognized the independence of the Republic of Kosovo.
64 Post contains links and images IliriBDL : ^ Yeah, kind of breaking news at the moment. I guess it happened few hours ago. News agencies are just getting the word out in the past hour. (minutes
65 Oa260 : Its amazing the lack of recognition from Muslim countries !!
66 IliriBDL : One by one they'll join the party.
67 Oa260 : But I thought it would have been the Muslim countries that would have been at the funeral first.
68 IliriBDL : Actually only Russia went to the funeral. (of Yugoslavia)
69 Oa260 : LOL.... Yes its a shame the good old days will never return.
70 IliriBDL : I got to live only 6 years or so until all the trouble started with the wars, at that point the country was destroyed. To start and think of what YU
71 ME AVN FAN : It shows how well organized Russia is around the globe. As long as not a single country of the Arab League had done so, there was like a kind of bloc
72 IliriBDL : Eastern part of the world though, as we all know that the West accepts Kosovo, and the new reality. (and of course there are countries here and there
73 OA260 : There are still some in the West that dont though. The EU is still split on it .
74 IliriBDL : Hey I like your flag much better now. I'm still waiting for the Kosovo one, I already put in the request. haha
75 Post contains images AlexEU : Then I'll have to apply for the flag of Belgrade, it's much better then the Serbian one
76 Post contains images IliriBDL : ^ Yeah, agree it looks very nice. I like this one though... My grandfathers side of family were from there, when he was young the family moved down to
77 ME AVN FAN : - "split" is not exactly the word. If you look at the map under kosovothanksyou.com you can see that most of the EU including the three "heavies" HAV
78 Dougloid : that's pretty damned offensive Jack.
79 Prebennorholm : Not sure about Slovakia and Romania, but for Spain and Cyprus this is internal politics. Not at all. There is only one way for Serbia to score a dipl
80 Prebennorholm : The fact is that all over the world the name of the republic of Macedonia is Macedonia. The only exception is when polite people is talking about Mac
81 IliriBDL : They'll get with the program once it's only them left for the recognition. (I think)
82 AlexEU : At least we know that Kosovo independence was illegal. I am not trying to deny the ''illegal'' regime of Milosevic to Kosovars, but I hope that ICT w
83 Oa260 : You get over it . Try to educate yourself on something rather than make stupid un educated remarks. Go read history a bit more. What is happening now
84 ME AVN FAN : - whatever, it was NOT illegal but perfectly legal. This was found out by the experts of the Swiss Foreign Ministry and the experts of both houses of
85 OA260 : Yes but times have changed and it clearly needs to be sorted beyond doubt as I have said before these things have a habbit of turning up years later
86 IliriBDL : They won't though because Greece is in the EU and NATO, which protects everything that has to do with that specific country.
87 ME AVN FAN : - The easiest way to have it "sorted" would be for Greece relaxing and dropping its childish objections.
88 OA260 : haha you really believe that ?? The easiest way to solve it would be for FYROM to stop bringing up non issues to cloud the negotiations. As I follow
89 ME AVN FAN : - I admittedly do NOT follow this on a bi-daily basis even, as I object to masochism. - - Never, as nobody knows what this is. Macedonia in the longe
90 IliriBDL : lol, latest I heard it will be called New Macedonia or as the Macedonians would say Nova Makedonija.
91 Oa260 : Yes the people of FYROM do it well !! Maybe you should follow it more than you would see what the Greeks have seen since it all started. Macedonia wi
92 AlexEU : Although I agree with you on the name issue, I can't agree with this, since Skopje Macedonians have nothing to do with Greek Macedonians. Totally dif
93 Post contains links Oa260 : Well the goal posts have been changing all the time. The FYROM government state one thing then do another. They have been doing it all along and cant
94 Dougloid : I doubt that-he's happily married to a nice looking woman.
95 IFlyTWA : Exactly. It also belongs to the Macedonian minorities in Greece, Bulgaria, and Albania as well as the worldwide Macedonian diaspora.
96 Acheron : Seems you have no idea of the implications for Spain's territorial integrity should they do such thing as recognizing Kosovo.
97 Oa260 : Another myth . Problem is the FYROM government have exhausted all propaganda avenues on this and it has been disregarded by the international communi
98 ME AVN FAN : - there is no such people. The is a people in the Republic of Macedonia, and there is people in Greek Macedonia. - - Provinces are NOT "members" of t
99 Oa260 : No but Greece is and by default their provinces are in turn members of the EU Not really. Greece is not laying claim to any land in FYROM or other as
100 ME AVN FAN : NEGATIVE. Parts of member countries are NOT members. - - Greece is opposing the Macedonians to use in their country and for their country the name th
101 Leskova : Just to clarify that a bit more than it has - there's a law that prevents you from having two citizenships (German plus another), and whenever you do
102 Oa260 : They are seeking a compromise not the total withdrawal of the name to include ''Macedonia''. But on paper and international treaties it will be FYROM
103 ME AVN FAN : - Which is rubbish. Either the name "Macedonia" is NOT acceptable and then they should stay with this or else simply drop their objections. Everythin
104 Oa260 : In your opinion. Like you said yourself you have not followed it closely so leave it to those who have to know the reality. And Greece has constantly
105 AlexEU : I don't think that there is a law which prevents a country to decides it's name, which means that Greek gov is by law not objective. By Badintair comm
106 IliriBDL : So I would have to give up the US passport right? (in case I became a German citizen)
107 ME AVN FAN : I will NOT leave matters to self-appointed experts, who "follow it closely" with prejudice and fixed opinions. And you have made many statements abov
108 OA260 : Go back and read previous ''FYROM'' ''Macedonia'' threads !!! You clearly have little knowledge about the balkans even though you claim to know every
109 ME AVN FAN : - never did and never will do - - the problem for me and many many others is that you have the choice to listen to people who now as much or less as
110 Oa260 : I know very well issues affecting this whole dispute since day one . Its just a shame that some people have an anti Greek agenda when the Greek natio
111 ME AVN FAN : - Greece during the times of Federal Yugoslavia simply ignored the existence of a Federal State with the Macedonia name. The Greek Macedonia, to say
112 Oa260 : Which is what the current FYROM stance is . Its all very well for those people and those countries to brush these things aside and dismiss them but w
113 IFlyTWA : What is there to understand? That fact that Macedonians were the majority population in all parts of Macedonia prior to the 1913 partition? Or the fa
114 Oa260 : FYROM has no claim soley to the name of Macedonia. We have discussed this at length on previous threads. They also said that they had no claim to any
115 Oa260 : BTW just to totally clarify things thats my Mothers side of the family.
116 Leskova : As ME AVN FAN already stated correctly, yes, that's what you would need to do. And should you claim a different citizenship after becoming a German c
117 ME AVN FAN : - THIS however shows that they are stubborn and unflexible also. To yield to the Greek pressure and adopt a good name like Vardar/Vardariya/Vardarist
118 Oa260 : They are not being asked to adopt any such name . Refer to previous threads on the topic if you are really that interested.
119 PanAm_DC10 : The original content of this thread has been discussed at length, it has drifted off topic and is being archived. Thank you.
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