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Libya Blocks Swiss Oil Deliveries  
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26958 posts, RR: 58
Posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1435 times:

So what should be done to Libya ? Are they turning to bad habbits again ? Is it time to bring them down to earth a bit again ?

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Libya has stopped oil shipments to Switzerland months after the arrest of Muammar Gaddafi's youngest son sparked a diplomatic row.
"Libya has requested the company to halt all oil deliveries to Switzerland," said Issam Zanati, chief executive of Libyan oil firm Tamoil.
Tensions have been high between the two countries since Swiss police arrested Hannibal Gaddafi and his wife in July.
They were accused of hitting two of their staff but charges were dropped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7661860.stm

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1385 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Thread starter):
Libya has stopped oil shipments to Switzerland

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TAMoil has/had quite nice petrol stations all over the country. Unless they can purchase petrol elsewhere they have to close down. AND TAMoil has/had its own refinery in Switzerland. The same thing, in case of doubt closing down. Well, Mr Khaddafi fired into his own goal ! All experts say that this stop is no problem for Switzerland as there is sufficient petrol on the market elsewhere.
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Quoting Oa260 (Thread starter):
Tensions have been high between the two countries since Swiss police arrested Hannibal Gaddafi and his wife in July.

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There is no such thing as "Swiss police", even if Mr Khaddafi fails to realize it. Police in Switzerland is strictly a matter of the Cantons and NOT of the union. Hannibal K. was arrested by the Cantonal Police of the Republic and Canton of Geneva, and he was prosecuted by the Geneva judiciary. There IS a Federal Supreme Court, but the matter not even reached the Geneva Court of Appeal.
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And there in fact never were "tensions" in spite of Mr Khaddafi senior fuming and some hectic diplomacy. Abdelaziz Bouteflika, an old and good friend of Switzerland, in fact tried to calm Mr Khaddafi but to no avail.


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1375 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Thread starter):
So what should be done to Libya ? Are they turning to bad habbits again ? Is it time to bring them down to earth a bit again ?

I seriously hope you are attempting humour there - of course nothing should be done about a country refusing to sell its *own* product to another country, thats Libyas perogative.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1645 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1370 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Thread starter):
So what should be done to Libya ? Are they turning to bad habbits again ? Is it time to bring them down to earth a bit again ?

So we should bomb them because they decided not to sell something they own to someone in particular?.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26958 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1369 times:



Quoting Acheron (Reply 3):
So we should bomb them

Err HELLO who said anything about bombing anyone ?? Get off your high horse  Yeah sure  Yeah sure


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1365 times:



Quoting Acheron (Reply 3):
So we should bomb them because they decided not to sell something they own to someone in particular?. Yeah sure

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There is absolutely NO reason to get emotional. In Switzerland, the "Khaddafi affair" generally is handled on the humour pages.


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1356 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 4):

Err HELLO who said anything about bombing anyone ?? Get off your high horse Yeah sure Yeah sure

That was certainly the way this - 'So what should be done to Libya ? Are they turning to bad habbits again ? Is it time to bring them down to earth a bit again ?' - sounded, so don't sound surprised when people bite you for it.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1353 times:

There today was an interesting article on the online-platform of the Basler Zeitung _:
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Während sich der Rest der Schweiz vom Öllieferstopp Libyens nicht aus der Ruhe bringen lässt, sind die Verantwortlichen der Walliser Gemeinde Collombey-Muraz beunruhigt. In der Gemeinde steht die Tamoil-Raffinerie.
.................................................................
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While the rest of Switzerland is not much bothered about the oil delivery stop of Libya, those in charge in the Wallis/Valais village or Collombey-Muraz ARE uneasy as the TAMoil refinery is in their village.


Kommt diese zum Stillstand, stünden 265 Arbeitsplätze auf dem Spiel. Tamoil mit seinen libyschen Besitzern ist für die 6700-Seelen-Gemeinde ein wichtiger Arbeitgeber. Die Raffinerie produziert nach eigenen Angaben jährlich rund 2,7 Millionen Tonnen Erdölprodukte - Benzin, Diesel, Heizöl oder Kerosin. Das Rohöl dafür stammt aus Libyen und wird via eine Pipeline vom Hafen im italienischen Genua nach Collombey gepumpt.
................................................................................................................
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If the refinery stops operations, 265 jobs may go lost. TAMoil is an important factor in that village of 6700 inhabitants. The refinery declares to produce 2,7 million tons of oil products per year, petrol, diesel, heating oil and kerosene. The raw oil is coming from Libya via a pipeline from Genoa/Genova seaport to Collombey.

Am Mittwoch gab Tamoil nun bekannt, dass Libyen die Lieferungen eingestellt habe. «Wir hoffen darauf, dass Tamoil sich andernorts eindecken kann», sagte die Gemeindepräsidentin von Collombey, Josiane Granger, am Freitag gegenüber der Nachrichtenagentur SDA. Sie gehe davon aus, dass der Direktor der Raffinerie, Sirous Ammar, «alles tue», um die Arbeitsplätze zu schützen. Von Tamoil selbst war dazu am Freitag nichts zu erfahren.
....................................................................
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On Wednesday, TAMoil announced that Libya stopped its supplies. The president of the village, Josiane Granger, said "We hope that TAMoil can get supplies from elsewhere". She expects the Director of the refinery, Sirous Ammar, to do everything to protect the jobs. No news however from TAMoil itself.


Die Libyer wollen Tamoil und die Raffinerie seit 2007 verkaufen. Allerdings platzten die Verhandlungen mit einem Investionsfonds wegen der Finanzkrise, wie Direktor Ammar erst Anfang September sagte.
...........................................................................
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The Libyans want to sell TAMoil and the refinery since 2007. But negotiations with an investment-fund have collapsed in September, due to the financial crisis, as Director Ammar stated.
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User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26958 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1350 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 6):
so don't sound surprised when people bite you for it.

I know it may be weird to some but just because someone says ''what should be done to Libya'' It does not automatically mean that it means to use force !!


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1341 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 8):

I know it may be weird to some but just because someone says ''what should be done to Libya'' It does not automatically mean that it means to use force !!

But thats what you *were* suggesting in the question - the use of force. Not necessarily physical force, but force none the less, perhaps in the fashion of diplomatic bullying or some such.

And all because Libya refused to sell its product to someone.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1645 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1341 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 4):
Err HELLO who said anything about bombing anyone ?? Get off your high horse

Well, you said:

Quoting Oa260 (Thread starter):
So what should be done to Libya ? Are they turning to bad habbits again ? Is it time to bring them down to earth a bit again ?

So it seemed like you were suggesting another bombing like the US did in 1986.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1338 times:



Quoting Acheron (Reply 10):
it seemed

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Swiss Interior Minister Pascal Couchepin who is the "Federal President 2008" just today said that negotiations simply would continue until things get back to normal. It is a bit difficult to explain to a dictator that police and judiciary in a Canton are not a federal matter and NOT under federal control ..................


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26958 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1337 times:



Quoting Acheron (Reply 10):
So it seemed like you were suggesting another bombing like the US did in 1986.

It maybe the USA's favourite hobby but not mine . There are economic and diplomatic ways of voicing opinions and disagreements. Libya thinks it can buy and threaten its way out of local laws and they should stop playing games which they are good at.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1288 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
There are economic and diplomatic ways of voicing opinions and disagreements.

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The Swiss Federal government has told the Libyan leadership that in Switzerland the union canNOT apologize for the legal steps of the judiciary of a Canton. And that the Federal Supreme Court was not involved in any way. Otherwise, the Federal government has encouraged the Canton of Geneva to drop any legal titles in this regard, but it canNOT command anything thelike, due to laws and constitution. Hannibal Khaddafi violated laws of the Canton of Geneva, and it is highly unlikely that the City of Tripoli would have accepted a son of Swiss Federal President Pascal Couchepin violating local laws there.
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But otherwise, Switzerland simply wishes to return to the status quo BEFORE the Hannibal behaviours problem and tries to get permission for the Swiss businessmen blocked in the Swiss embassy to go home and some family members of former personnel of Hannibal to get released.
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The petrol delivery matter is a marketing matter, which means that Libya is to lose market share to competitors, and it may be fairly hard for Libya to regain the lost market share later.
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Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
Libya thinks it can buy and threaten its way out of local laws and they should stop playing games which they are good at.

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as outlined above, Libya is losing this particular game very clearly. Not only will Libya lose its market position in Switzerland, the Libyan leadership simply underestimated the extent to which Switzerland's energy utilisation is based on electricity, and the LNG from Algeria. Another aspect is that Khaddafi thought he could easily move the whole Arab World up against Switzerland, which of course is rubbish, as Switzerland has excellent relations to countries like Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan and so cannot so easily be hit by notions of the Libyan dictator.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14011 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

BTW, the BBC said a few days ago that the reason why Mr. Ghadaffi jr. and his wife were not prosecuted was that both hotel employees withdrew their statements after having received an undisclosed compensation.

Jan


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1272 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
BTW, the BBC said a few days ago that the reason why Mr. Ghadaffi jr. and his wife were not prosecuted was that both hotel employees withdrew their statements after having received an undisclosed compensation.

Jan

Both were given assurances from the Swiss Federal government that Swiss diplomacy would take care of some of their relatives taken into custody in Tripoli. Up to now, at least three out of four of them WERE liberated and repatriated. As a German you certainly know that Swiss diplomacy is lazy, slow, bureaucratic, complicated, arrogant and unbearable but quite effective in the end. "Please do NOT shoot the messengers ! Thanks "
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User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26958 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1243 times:

Libya 'to pull Swiss bank assets'

Libya is to withdraw assets from Swiss banks, estimated at $7bn, as a diplomatic row over the arrest of the Libyan leader's youngest son escalates.
Hannibal Gaddafi and his wife were detained in Geneva for assault in July, but the charges were later dropped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7662856.stm


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1197 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 16):
Libya is to withdraw assets from Swiss banks

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The reaction from the "affected" banks is extremely relaxed. Some people in Tripoli apparently overestimate their "might" in a tragic-comic way. Nobody in Switzerland is too much impressed. It however is possible that some people in Libya feared that Switzerland might block these assets, just as Libya would in case of a "reverse-case".


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1176 times:

The latest on the development came out right now :
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Libyen hat weder die Absicht, seine Öllieferungen in die Schweiz zu stoppen noch seine Gelder von Schweizer Banken abzuziehen. Entsprechende Meldungen hätten die libyschen Behörden gegenüber der Schweizer Vertretung in Tripolis offiziell dementiert, sagte Botschafter Daniel von Muralt der Nachrichtenagentur SDA.
>>><<<<
Libya does NOT intend to stop its oil supplies to Switzerland and does NOT intend to withdraw financial deposits from Swiss banks. News to that effect were denied by Libyan authorities officially, as Ambassador Daniel von Muralt told the Swiss News Agency SDA (Schweizerische Depeschenagentur) .


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