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Icelandic Bank Collapse. Charities Losing Question  
User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

Quote from BBC:-

"The Cats Protection League said it had £11.2 million deposited in a UK bank owned by the collapsed Kaupthing".

What is a Cat charity doing with 11.2 million quid?  Yeah sure


What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
107 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2184 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Thread starter):
What is a Cat charity doing with 11.2 million quid?  

Errr why not?? It is donations from all sorts of people incl. Cat lovers and owners. Whats the problem?


User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2166 times:

Because they're Cats!! Children starving etc and there's £11m for Cats - not right.


What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

I think what Gozza is doing is pouring petrol on a house fire - he is lashing out at Iceland in times of crisis - I don't think he reacted the same way with Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley.

we are going to Iceland on Saturday 18th and they have withdrawn all currency from outside of iceland! On the plus side, our car and hotel which was £1k a month ago has now been paid for and cost us £650.

Alex


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13738 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2154 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 2):
Children starving etc and there's £11m for Cats - not right.

The economist perspective that Adam Smith would probably argue, is that if private individuals see fit to donate a portion of their wealth to cat charities then so be it.

Perhaps saying not enough people care for children starving would be sounder argument than de facto condemning people who have money and care about cats donating to a cat charity Big grin



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2132 times:



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 4):
Perhaps saying not enough people care for children starving would be sounder argument than de facto condemning people who have money and care about cats donating to a cat charity 

Exactly. We could use it for everything !! Cumulus instead of taking a holiday next year why not donate it to the starving children??


User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2123 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
Cumulus instead of taking a holiday next year why not donate it to the starving children??

Couldn't afford a holiday this year, I'm a Single Dad and spend a fortune bringing my Daughter up, but if I had surplus income I would happily donate it to starving children and certainly not Cats.



What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3941 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2112 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 2):
Because they're Cats!! Children starving etc and there's £11m for Cats - not right.

Why spend it on children? Why not on cancer?

Fact is, there is always going to be some causes you think are more worthy than others. Following your logic, we should just spend $8 trillion or whatever in the cause you think is more worthy (which would not solve it, by the way) and then only move out of it once it had been resolved. In the meantime bridges would crumble, hospitals would stop operating, etc.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2104 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 2):
£11m for Cats - not right.

Exactly. Dogs are better pets anyway.



Word
User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2090 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 7):
Why not on cancer?

Exactly, infact anything which benefits Humans.



What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2088 times:



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 8):
Dogs are better pets anyway.

Anything is better than Cats!!



What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2085 times:
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Quoting Cumulus (Reply 2):
Because they're Cats!! Children starving etc and there's £11m for Cats - not right.



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 4):
The economist perspective that Adam Smith would probably argue, is that if private individuals see fit to donate a portion of their wealth to cat charities then so be it.

Basic economic freedom means we can spend our own money on anything we desire. If we want to spend our money on insect husbandry for recreation and fun then that's ok. The money gets into the economy and is spent on something. As long as it's not in someones mattress it's being spent, jobs are created, homes are purchased, tax revenues are collected and people grow. It's cyclical but there it is.

plus...who is anyone to tell me how to spend my money? This isn't the USSR or Peoples Republic of anywhere....is it?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
Exactly. We could use it for everything !! Cumulus instead of taking a holiday next year why not donate it to the starving children??

Well, to be fair, instead of spending money on a television license, or on desserts, couldn't you donate that money to the salvation army? Once again we're into the realm of who's standards are we going to use?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2085 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 9):
Exactly, infact anything which benefits Humans.

Not true. Alot of these charities are looking after animals that are thrown out and mis treated and I totally agree with anyone that does anything to prevent cruelty to all animals. Everyone supports their own charities. I give to Cancer/Aids/RSPCA thats my choice.


User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2038 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 12):
Not true. Alot of these charities are looking after animals that are thrown out and mis treated and I totally agree with anyone that does anything to prevent cruelty to all animals. Everyone supports their own charities.

Granted, but priorities should be established along the lines of Communism. If someone leaves money to Cats, their mental state should be questioned when they made the donation (or Bequest), the Government should then seize the cash and spend it on AIDS/Cancer/Children etc and just have the Cats put down.



What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

People can spend money on whatever they want. However, a cat "charity" shouldn't be registered as a charity. Donations should be taxed, so the general (sensible) population don't lose out on the whim of a few morons.

User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

The majority of this money probably comes from old dears leaving their houses and everything in between to these bizarre charities.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2003 times:



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 14):
People can spend money on whatever they want. However, a cat "charity" shouldn't be registered as a charity. Donations should be taxed, so the general (sensible) population don't lose out on the whim of a few morons.

So in that logic the government has the right to tell you where you should spend your money and who your leave you estate to ?


User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2042 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1994 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 13):
Granted, but priorities should be established along the lines of Communism. If someone leaves money to Cats, their mental state should be questioned when they made the donation (or Bequest), the Government should then seize the cash and spend it on AIDS/Cancer/Children etc and just have the Cats put down.



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 13):
People can spend money on whatever they want. However, a cat "charity" shouldn't be registered as a charity. Donations should be taxed, so the general (sensible) population don't lose out on the whim of a few morons.

Scary. After hearing these opinions from the extreme left, I am now waiting for the opposite side claiming that HIV/AIDS is the big guy's wrath punishing homosexuals for their immoral behaviour, and demanding that those charities be taxed...

I don't know what you think Humane Societies do, but their work benefits all of society, and your attitudes have just won my local Humane Society a donation.



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

The bigger losers with the Iceland banking meltdown may be some regional and municipal governments in the UK, with maybe 200 Million Pounds at risk.
Yes, it does seem silly that a cat charity has 11 million pounds in it's kitty, but many millions of people love their cats too, despise cruelty to animals and recognize the positive power of cats as pets on peoples lives. Besides some cats are good to get rid of rodents. Too bad there were not bigger cats, but not 'fat cats' to go after the 'rats' in the financial services industry that has caught us in this tangled ball of junk.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1985 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
So in that logic the government has the right to tell you where you should spend your money and who your leave you estate to ?

No, as I said you have a right to spend money wherever you like. However, some things are given preferential tax status, including charities. These are dictated by governments and are a function of societal will. The government has every right to say what is taxed, and money given to cat foundations should be taxed.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1965 times:



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
The government has every right to say what is taxed, and money given to cat foundations should be taxed.

You are either a registered charity or not . You have to meet certain criteria. The argument could go down to every little detail. People donate money to their chosen cause and its their right. If Cat charities were to be taxed then the argument would come up that Aids/Cancer and other charities should be taxed.

Indeed I have heard the argument that Christian Aid in the UK should be taxed as it is money taken out of the country and not a charity that helps British people within the country. Charity begins at home I keep hearing. I dont totally agree with it but where will it all end ??

Your either a Charity or not.


User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1956 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
So in that logic the government has the right to tell you where you should spend your money and who your leave you estate to ?

Well if you are forced by Government to give them 40% of everything over the Inheritance Tax Threshold of your estate so it therefore not any sort of logical follow on that 777236ER is making, it factual. The is Government IS telling you where it is going.

And if the individual is round the twist, the destination of the proceeds should be questioned.

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 768 File size: 122kb


vs

Big version: Width: 488 Height: 330 File size: 56kb


No Brainer really.

Cumulus.
(Cat Hater!).



What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2042 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1941 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 21):
No Brainer really.

While I cannot speak for the organisation you mentioned at the beginning, I know that the local Humane Society here does not fund the lavish lifestyle of pets as shown above.

However, it has a spay & neuter programme to help control the stray dog & cat population on this island;

it operates a clinic for animals who, for instance, were hit by cars, or - like my neighbour's dog - shot in the face by the police, and whose owners can't afford the regular vet;

it has an adoption programme to find homes for animals who either never had homes or who were abandoned;

it advocates animal related policies, and contributed considerably to a piece of legislation that is now being discussed in parliament to finally outlaw turtle fishing (endangered species and all).

Finally, let me add that pets, for many people, are an important aspect of their own mental well-being, for others they provide aid (e.g. seeing eye dogs) or protection - and whether you personally like cats or not is irrelevant, when I used to have one, mice and rats weren't in the house, so they can serve a purpose other than wearing a st00pid hat.



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1921 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 21):
Well if you are forced by Government to give them 40% of everything over the Inheritance Tax Threshold of your estate so it therefore not any sort of logical follow on that 777236ER is making, it factual. The is Government IS telling you where it is going.

We can all post biased photos but it wont work . Shame you could not post a more realisitc photos when you were comparing !!







User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1921 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):

You are either a registered charity or not . You have to meet certain criteria.

Yes. You seem to be missing my point. The cat protection league shouldn't be a charity. The rules are too lax.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):
I dont totally agree with it but where will it all end ??

It's entirely subjective, it should be a parliamentary select comittee decision.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):
Your either a Charity or not.

You're. Well, one.


25 Andz : Nice one! I am surprised at the vitriolic tone of some of the posts here. If I want to give my money to cats and not children/cancer/AIDS or any othe
26 777236ER : We all know what many South Africans think about natives of Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Malawi. How many people have been murdered since May?
27 Alessandro : Well, I quote Fat Freddy´s cat on this one "Bearded one" says,-US citizens spend more a day in average on their cats than on aid, equal food for a pe
28 Cumulus : So, in short, you'd rather Cats benefit over Human Beings?
29 OA260 : Very true. It should be everyones individual choice and if everyone was told what charities they could and could not support they would all loose out
30 Andz : Nice try, but our crime is so bad that the xenophobic violence here was barely a blip on the stats. Maybe we should be giving money to the Police ins
31 777236ER : You can support whoever you want, but there must be limits on which organisations get preferential tax treatment.
32 Acheron : You are asking for too much. Have you ever noticed in any forum or website where an image of a dead and/or abused animal is place, the outcry for the
33 Pyrex : No brainer for me too. Pouring away money into a continent that has always starved, since the inception of mankind, and that has benefited from more
34 Cumulus : So why are Cats still suffering as per OA260's post? Are you implying that all charitable contributions are wasted?
35 777236ER : The choice wasn't cats vs. Africa, it was cats vs. starving kids. If you seriously would home a cat rather than feed a starving child, then you have
36 Oa260 : Why is anyone still suffering? Some donations are wasted. Alot of money sent to Africa vanishes with no trace!
37 PPVRA : Should we tax Greenpeace and the World Wildlife Fund?
38 Cumulus : Well blame Bob Geldof. Do you have evidence that money donated to these infernal Cats actually gets to them? Not that it bothers me of course!
39 Cumulus : Definately, at the most severe rate.
40 Oa260 : Can you provide a link that says it does not??
41 Cumulus : You threw the Gauntlet down Sunshine, not me. Go on, dare you!! Give me proof that as per the African charities where cash "goes" missing, the same do
42 Cumulus : Irrelevant. If you had a spare $10.00 and you knew (irrespective of anyone robbing your tenner) it would save the life of a Cat or a Child which woul
43 777236ER : Leave it up to a parliamentary select comittee, as I've said. In my opinion, yes.
44 Oa260 : But I thought you said it does not bother you ?
45 DLPMMM : Great Idea!! We all know how well Communism works! I suppose the make up of this parlimentary select committee will be determined by the special blue
46 777236ER : Actually, all it would take is to make the Charities Commission answerable to a select committee that already exists, if you'd like. The Home Affairs
47 DLPMMM : I don't think you would ever be able to get that change made, as there are alot of groups that depend on those donations and there are alot of politi
48 Cumulus : Hahahahahaha!!!!!! Worked for Fidel!
49 777236ER : Uh, OK. It happened a whole two years ago, I'm not sure how you can conclude it can't happen again. I can't think of any UK MP that relies on animal
50 A346Dude : OK, so I can send money to starving children in Africa but not to cats. Good to know. What about hungry kids in Canada? They're hungry, but not starvi
51 Davehammer : Cant stand cats myself but don't see any problem in people giving money to a charity with their own money if they see fit. It's not up to anyone else
52 777236ER : Yet again, you should be able to send money to whoever you want, but it should be taxed unless it's a worthy cause as defined by the government.
53 Oa260 : So where do you stand on charities that are for the following groups :: IVF treatments Sporting Hearing Dogs for the Deaf Royal British Legion Indust
54 777236ER : IVF - no, comes under the role of the NHS. Sporting - only provided it advances amateur sport or as part of a wider social role Assistance Animals -
55 Oa260 : So its ok to give to charities that use animals to help human beings but not the other way around?
56 777236ER : Yes absolutely. And as you keep on ignoring, you can give your money to whoever you want. It should be taxed if it's not a deserving organisation.
57 Oa260 : Err no I dont . What you consider as deserving and what I and others may consider as deserving are two different things. All or nothing I say. All ta
58 Planesarecool : The fact is, I can give money to my local cat charity and see the results of what I've put money into. I can give money to a 'save the children in Afr
59 777236ER : What are you talking about? "None taxed" makes no sense, declare yourself as a charity and don't pay income tax!
60 Oa260 : What are you talking about ? I think you clearly know that there are certain rules currently in force that decide what is a valid charity and what is
61 777236ER : So then why did you suggest that no organisation should pay tax on its incomes?!
62 Cumulus : Yes because it benefits Humans and the animal would be cared for beautifully. My local Chinese was shut down a few years back for using Cat meat. Bit
63 Oa260 : No Charitable organisation should be taxed. If you are a charity then you have already passed the criteria set down by law.
64 777236ER : And the point which I have reitterated countless times is that the Cat Protection League shouldn't be a charity, its donations should be taxed, the C
65 Oa260 : And the point I am making ''countless times'' is that I and others disagree with you.
66 777236ER : No you haven't, you've gone off on countless tangents without really grasping the point. So it doesn't get too complicated, would you feed a starving
67 Oa260 : So I dont confuse you !! I would do both. I donate to human and animal charities as stated from the start. There is NO reason why you cant give equal
68 777236ER : Of course it's not a slippery slope, it happens today! The Charities' Commission decides what organisations are charities and what aren't, don't you
69 OA260 : And a simple answer to you. I would give GBP5 to one and GBP5 to another.
70 OA260 : Im having trouble sending PM's. I got yours and cant reply. I have to give you credit for that one though. LOL.....
71 777236ER : For Christ's sake, stop avoiding the question. You have an absolutely indivisible amount of money. You have to give it to either a starving child (th
72 OA260 : Its not avoiding it at all. If you want to support both charities then why cant you ?? Its just not the answer you are looking for !!
73 777236ER : You are avoiding it because you're not answering the question. You also mean "it's", a contraction of "it is". Do you value the life of cats equally
74 Planesarecool : What's that got to do with anything? It's not a competition, if somebody wants to give money to a cat charity, they are free to do so. I give money t
75 777236ER : But a cat organisation shouldn't be a charity. Great, donate money to me, I'll declare myself a charity and won't pay any tax!
76 Planesarecool : If people are willing to donate to it, then yes it should be. You do that. Whether or not anybody will donate to you is a different matter.
77 Singapore_Air : So to be clear, you disagree with the thread starter .
78 777236ER : No, I agree entirely with him. A rational person wouldn't give money to a cat foundation, but you can give your money to whoever you want. To extend
79 Planesarecool : In your opinion. Clearly some people think otherwise, or else the charity wouldn't have had £11.2m in the bank.
80 Oa260 : Very true . And as stated before 11.2m is not all that much for a charity. Its a democracy after all. You give to what you believe in. Hmm basket cas
81 DLPMMM : So we get it already, you don't like animals and don't think that animal related charities should have tax exempt status. There are alot of people wh
82 777236ER : Obviously. I'm sure many people give money to Jihadist groups too. Should we applaud them for their alturistic generosity? Yet this charity is still
83 Planesarecool : So I assume that any food you don't eat, you send off to Africa for the 'starving kids' then? After all, it can't be rational to throw food in the bi
84 Singapore_Air : I agree with you inference that inheritance and transfers of money between the people you mentioned should not be taxable. As to whether animal chari
85 Oa260 : Are they registered as a UK charity?? Well if thats all they have then they have a right to be worried. Any money lost to any charity is worrying. An
86 DLPMMM : You can count on that, and all of them think they are right. While it is true that giving money directly to animals is irrational, since they have no
87 777236ER : Probably not, but they could be quite easily! Religious organisations are another one on the list of undeserving organisations that can be registered
88 Oa260 : Everyone is worried about the current climate and everyone is also complaining. Lots of different organisations/councils have lost money and are moan
89 Planesarecool : So you're saying that if I'm deciding whether to go on holiday to Spain or Tanzania, I should go to the latter because, despite the fact it'll cost m
90 DLPMMM : You might think this way, but others don't. You don't seen to take into account the marginal returns to society in toto of the infinate possible dist
91 Pyrex : Human beings have always suffered - there has been no period of time when human beings were not suffering. So, under your conclusion, fighting barbar
92 777236ER : Exactly, and no other organisations as tedious as the Cat Protection League are destroying their public image by putting out such ridiculous press re
93 Pyrex : Are you saying that me spending time trying to ban fox-hunting or bull-fights is a waste of time and so my time should be taxed?
94 777236ER : Fox hunting and bull fights are banned in the UK. Giving money to lobby groups should of course be taxed, yes.
95 Pyrex : Then I just ask you something. Please provide a list of the top 100 issues with the world today, according to your great wiseness, and rank them in o
96 Oa260 : And you me. I doubt he could do it . I challenge him to it also . Lets wait and see for the 100 issues to be posted . Next we will be hearing that Fa
97 DLPMMM : Absolutely, there are some completely insufferable people in this world whom in my opinion should not be abetted in their survival. I would rather sp
98 Cumulus : Without a shadow of doubt. A Father devoted to his Children and unable to spend time with them as his ex-wife has used them in as a Pawn in the battl
99 Oa260 : So do you think that donations to Fathers4justice should be tax free??
100 Cumulus : Yep, and whatever the Donator offers the Government should equal the same amount. (I'm not moving on this one!)
101 777236ER : This is irrelevent, alturism itself is based on sociological things. I've already said that pressure groups shouldn't get tax exemption. Yet again, y
102 Pyrex : What? What language are you speaking? And what are these sociological "things" you are talking about? Good. That means that no group who lobbies the
103 777236ER : Disasters are ranked based on sociological perspective. A lot of people here are more affected by 9/11 than the Bhopal disaster even though an order
104 Planesarecool : But you said that human suffering should always be considered when deciding where to spend money. Make your mind up.
105 Pyrex : So, you just reaffirmed my point that, according to your logic, any group who tries to influence political decision (be it Greenpeace, Oxfam or Save
106 DLPMMM : To me, your attitude is horrific. You seem to think that your misguided opinion is supreme to all others, much in the same way that Hitler thought hi
107 OA260 : Very true !! So I will put this question to you 777236ER ... If you had to save your Mother or your Father who would you save? Just going by your own
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