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When Is It Your Right To Decide To Die?  
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27346 posts, RR: 60
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

After seeing this report it does raise questions. Its very sad but when should it be your right to choose to die or should it never be allowed?


The mother of a paralysed rugby player who died in a Swiss assisted suicide clinic had defended in an e-mail debate her son's right to die, it has emerged.
Daniel James, 23, of Worcester, died on 12 September, and police have since confirmed they are investigating.
His mother Julie e-mailed the Daily Telegraph's website on 4 October, urging readers not to judge him.
She also criticised a woman - described as "well meaning" - for reporting their journey to Switzerland to police.
Mr James's mother and father Mark, from Sinton Green, Worcester, are under investigation over the death.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hereford/worcs/7677706.stm

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMWHCVT From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 742 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

I'm glad but also saddened to see that this topic has been raised upon A.net because it will be interesting to compare the different beliefs of the individuals that make up the community.

Personally I’m a believer that each person has the right to determine when it is right for them to die. Especially if their quality of life is going to be so low, because of crippling injuries or terminal illness is going to result in long and drawn out pain and suffering.

It often bewilders me that within the UK we continue to prolong suffering of Humans, yet we send people to prison for cruelty to animals, if we were to allow animals to suffer in the ways that we let fellow humans suffer.

Are we not all animals on some levels, maybe we should be prosecuting ourselves for cruelty to those suffering?



Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

I believe a person that chooses to avoid suffering in this world by ending their life, are doomed to eternal suffering in the next world. This world and the next are exact opposites (the poor will be rich, the humble will be exalted, the suffering will be peaceful).

User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2555 times:



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 2):
I believe a person that chooses to avoid suffering in this world by ending their life, are doomed to eternal suffering in the next world. This world and the next are exact opposites (the poor will be rich, the humble will be exalted, the suffering will be peaceful).

However, do you believe the government has the right to intervene when one makes the decision they want to end their life for whatever reason?



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineVirgin747lgw From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

how comes with some religions it is deemed outrageous to end your life prematurely but perfectly ok to get treatment to carry on living? I was told by my RE teacher that god decides when you die.

In my opinion you should be able to do whatever you like to your body as long as your actions dont directly affect anyone else, can anyone really be prepared to live the next 40+ years of their life paralysed from the neck down?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20377 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

It's a difficult question, isn't it?

A 23yo man has severe, untreated depression. He is standing on the edge of a bridge. Do you let him jump?

A 23yo woman has severe depression resistant to all treatment. She cannot take feeling like this anymore and wants to end his life. Should she be allowed to?

A 30yo man is paralyzed from the neck down in an accident. He was an avid triathlete and rock climber. Now deprived of every activity that ever gave him pleasure, he wants to end his life. Should he be allowed to?

A 55yo woman has end-stage, metastatic cancer. She is in terrible pain every day and is subjected to daily invasive therapy to keep her fed and hydrated. She wants to die to end her suffering. Should she be allowed to?

I'm not sure when a wish to die should be respected and when it shouldn't. At one extreme, we should allow anyone to commit suicide, including the teenager whose boyfriend just dumped her. At the other extreme, you could even ban palliative care and demand that all patients, even those with 100% fatal diseases, receive the most aggressive medical therapy.

All I can say is that I do not believe that a physician should be involved in the process.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Having lived in Michigan and Doctor Kevorkian I would rather have someone in the know help me do it right then to live with the knowledge that I screwed up in the end.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2498 times:



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 2):
I believe a person that chooses to avoid suffering in this world by ending their life, are doomed to eternal suffering in the next world. This world and the next are exact opposites (the poor will be rich, the humble will be exalted, the suffering will be peaceful).

So let me ask you this:

In 2007 we took my mother off of "life support" and she died. According to your logic I am guilty of murder, right?

This is why religion sucks.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2495 times:



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 2):
believe a person that chooses to avoid suffering in this world by ending their life, are doomed to eternal suffering in the next world.

We're not talking about someone who got dumped by his sweeheart and "cant take the pain" so he decides to hang himself, this is abour people who are terminally ill or have no chance of ever having a productive, healthy life again. And to say that anyone who kills their self are doomed to suffer is so callous. I take it you've never seen what suicide does to family, friends, loved ones. Do you?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
A 23yo man has severe, untreated depression. He is standing on the edge of a bridge. Do you let him jump?

no

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
A 23yo woman has severe depression resistant to all treatment. She cannot take feeling like this anymore and wants to end his life. Should she be allowed to?

hmm, interesting.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
A 30yo man is paralyzed from the neck down in an accident. He was an avid triathlete and rock climber. Now deprived of every activity that ever gave him pleasure, he wants to end his life. Should he be allowed to?

Im leaning twords yes on that one.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
A 55yo woman has end-stage, metastatic cancer. She is in terrible pain every day and is subjected to daily invasive therapy to keep her fed and hydrated. She wants to die to end her suffering. Should she be allowed to?

Yes. no reason for her to take that pain. Today, or 3 months from now she'll still meet the same fate. Why not let her have her final moments in as much comfort as she can be?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13210 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

One should help prevent someone from committing suicide, but sometimes you or others can't as can't be around the person all the time or don't want to let others know of the problems, especially as to mental or psychiatric illness. Then too, as to assisted suicide, it may be objectional to their religious beliefs or those around them.

It is important for everyone of adult age to have a medical directive along with a will and a Power of Attorney for someone to make decisions for you if are sufficiently incapacitate to be able to make legal decisions. These should be done with an attorney and unless you have substantial wealth, probably should cost not more than $300. You may have to prepare a medical directive if you go into a hospital for an operation. My father (and mother as well) had prepared all three before my father died at age 80 in Feb. 2007. All 3 saved a lot of financial, ethical and emotional issues for him, his doctors and his medical providers my father's last days of life and after his death. One should also keep to date all designations of beneficiaries in life insurance policies, bank accounts and financial investments like 401(k) accounts. I did all this shortly after my father died.

The medical directive should be done by the person when they are mentally and psychically well or in the early stages of a life threatening health condition. Mine specifies what degree of 'life sustaining treatment' should be used or withheld including as to food or hydration. In my case food and hydration can as well as further treatment withheld if I were in a irreversible coma, a terminal and irreversible medical condition and further treatments would be of minimum benefit or cause more suffering. One could also require all efforts to be made to extend life.

I would also recommend if you or someone you love is reaching the end of life, then use a hospice facility or counselor that comes to your home. Often they may be affiliated with an religious organization or affiliated hospital (like the one my father died at) or sometimes in designated nursing home sections. They can be a great help to all at a time of great stress and even afterwards.


User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

I dont understand this right to die argument.

If someone wants to die- I mean really after many months/years of suffering wants to die- let them.

If you do believe in God so what. What happens to them is between them and their God and nothing to do with you.


User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2436 times:



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 3):
However, do you believe the government has the right to intervene when one makes the decision they want to end their life for whatever reason?

I can't answer that. It is not my business if others want to die. It does not affect my salvation if you choose to trade in yours. I was only presenting my views....which the OP asked me to do.

Quoting Virgin747lgw (Reply 4):
can anyone really be prepared to live the next 40+ years of their life paralysed from the neck down?

Of course. Their suffering will count to help others make their way to heaven. It's the ultimate sacrifice for one you will never see, in a perfect imitation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Suffering is not always without purpose.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 6):
Having lived in Michigan and Doctor Kevorkian I would rather have someone in the know help me do it right then to live with the knowledge that I screwed up in the end.

Screwed up killing yourself? How about screwed up by succeeding to kill yourself? Don't you think I would miss your extreme liberalism on these boards? C'mon....you don't have the right to deprive us of your presence.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 7):
This is why religion sucks.

I am not speaking from the standpoint of religion.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8):
And to say that anyone who kills their self are doomed to suffer is so callous. I take it you've never seen what suicide does to family, friends, loved ones. Do you?

Yes I have seen what it does. If taking their own life was such a good and natural thing....why does everyone who is left behind suffer greatly?

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 10):
If you do believe in God so what. What happens to them is between them and their God and nothing to do with you.

Precisely. I am only giving my opinion. Why everyone has to be so hostile about my singular views in puzzling.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21882 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2425 times:



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 11):
It is not my business if others want to die.

So, if I understand correctly, you have no problem with assisted suicide being legal, though you don't believe it's the right thing to do.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2417 times:
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Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 10):
What happens to them is between them and their God and nothing to do with you.

couldn't agree more - if I find myself in a condition where I am slowly rotting away from some incurable disease , losing control of my bodily functions and I come to the decision that I do not want to lie in my own piss and shit then I certainly feel I have the right to end it all , and , in the extremely unlikely event that god (s) actually exists and he/she/it/they are pissed off with me then I will just have to argue it out with them and take the consequences ( and frankly any deity who thinks that people should suffer with no option of release has no business being in the god job in the first place )

I believe that so long as there are strict controls in place to prevent people hurrying someone on their way against their wishes then assisted suicide should be available - though I believe that perhaps there should be some sort of 'cooling off period' between the person making the decision and the actual 'release' to ensure that they have thought it through and are not doing it on the spur of the moment



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2407 times:



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 2):
I believe a person that chooses to avoid suffering in this world by ending their life, are doomed to eternal suffering in the next world. This world and the next are exact opposites (the poor will be rich, the humble will be exalted, the suffering will be peaceful).

But you base this entire belief on an inconsistent, factually wrong and man-written book from thousands of years ago!


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8471 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2405 times:
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If someone wants to die that is one thing. But if someone is not in a position to relay that wish to die then it is a much more prickly situation. This is where the controversy is usually more pronounced.

Personally I believe that you should be allowed to make your own decision.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2375 times:



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 2):
I believe a person that chooses to avoid suffering in this world by ending their life, are doomed to eternal suffering in the next world. This world and the next are exact opposites (the poor will be rich, the humble will be exalted, the suffering will be peaceful).



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 11):
I am not speaking from the standpoint of religion.

If you are not speaking from a standpoint of religion, than could you explain this point of view please?


User currently offlineMWHCVT From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 742 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2351 times:

Come one people we don't want this thread to turn into a flame fest on an individuals beliefs, I happen to come from a standpoint that I was for the first few years of my life I was educated in a purely catholic school, so feel that I have reasonable understanding of the religion. However the last time that I attended church was 4 years ago for my sisters wedding, On all forms that I have to fill in I describe myself as Atheist as I do not have a religion that I let control my daily life. I find it comforting to believe that they is a higher power and that when we die there is something after death. Though I can understand and like the idea of Hinduism of reincarnation. I live my life by the simple logic of "Do to others as you would have done to yourself" and I have found that this has stood me well for the first 23 years of my life.

If it were me, my family or an acquaintance that was suffering, and they had not quality of life remaining far from being upset I would take comfort that there suffering had ended. I would have already grieved over the fact that they were in the final stages of life. I would gladly aid anyone If I was able in this situation to end their suffering, but under current laws I would be concerned of punishment.

As for the situation highlighted by

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
A 23yo man has severe, untreated depression. He is standing on the edge of a bridge. Do you let him jump?

A 23yo woman has severe depression resistant to all treatment. She cannot take feeling like this anymore and wants to end his life. Should she be allowed to?

I have to confess that in this situation I am left unsure because having never had personal experience of severe depression within my social and family group I would not know, however I would not believe these individuals would require assistance in suicide, however I would like to think that help could be provided for them to bring them away from the edge because life can be crappy for you at some points and just as quickly switch to a wonderful situation an sometimes it can be the smallest thing that needs to change in order to improve your prospects and views on your life.



Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
User currently offlineKiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2346 times:

If a person has a clinical mental disorder, (depression, bi-polar, etc), then known clinical treatments should be exhausted first.

If someone is just depressed, (eg dumped by the girlfriend), they should declare to an authority that they wish to take their own life. They should then be placed in a facility for a month with access to counselling for their particular problem, (eg relationship counselling, your sports team lost the world cup again counselling, etc). At the end of this, they should have the perspective to make the decision, (non-impulsive)

If someone is terminally ill, absolutely.

And I agree with some of the posters above. Religion should never be used for the serious decisions in life. Perfect way to make the wrong decision.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2339 times:



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 11):
I am not speaking from the standpoint of religion.

Yes you are, you said it right here:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 2):
I believe a person that chooses to avoid suffering in this world by ending their life, are doomed to eternal suffering in the next world. This world and the next are exact opposites (the poor will be rich, the humble will be exalted, the suffering will be peaceful).



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 11):
If taking their own life was such a good and natural thing....why does everyone who is left behind suffer greatly?

Prehaps because their loved one is dead? Does not matter if they were 28 or 88 when they died, any rational human who suffers a loss will be saddened, hell even infants after the age of two can grasp that concept.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2330 times:



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 11):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 6):
Having lived in Michigan and Doctor Kevorkian I would rather have someone in the know help me do it right then to live with the knowledge that I screwed up in the end.

Screwed up killing yourself? How about screwed up by succeeding to kill yourself? Don't you think I would miss your extreme liberalism on these boards? C'mon....you don't have the right to deprive us of your presence.

Your views are totally based on your religious beliefs, which means you are unable to be neutral on this subject.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2314 times:

This is a very difficult call to make and I don't think you can generalize it..In my father's case the doctors all but made the decision for us. They were not going to connect him up to any more machines (dialysis, etc) because in their words, "it was a bridge to nowhere"

I had to agree with them. It was plainly obvious that with his lungs completely destroyed from pulmonary hemorrhaging and a newfound aggressive brain tumor paralyzing him there was no hope. So I made the call to withdraw support.

If he had indicated he wanted to live by any means necessary I would have made a different decision. It's really hard to say.

I personally believe in a never say die approach. But I know one day, my time will come. No matter the doctor, medicine, or divine intervention.

Difficult topic with no easy solution.


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3087 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

The minute you turn 18.....

You want to commit suicide you need to attend a seminar "Suicide...getting it right the first Time"

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineSeansasLCY From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2298 times:



Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 10):
If someone wants to die- I mean really after many months/years of suffering wants to die- let them.

If you do believe in God so what. What happens to them is between them and their God and nothing to do with you.

I agree 100% If i was in any situation where i required 24hour help from someone else because i was no longer capable of looking after myself or in a situation where i no longer enjoyed life I
would want to die and I believe if thats my wish I should be allowed to.

More specifically to the case of the young rugby player- he had tried to kill himself multiple times on his own but because he is paralysed he couldn't so his parents helped him to relieve him of having to go through the pain. I respect his parents for giving their son his wish unlike those who cling on to Children in similar situations force feeding them or not turning off life support machines. If that makes me evil or a murder, I couldn't care less about the afterlife, at the end of the day Today is all that matters because tomorrow may never come.


User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2290 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 16):
If you are not speaking from a standpoint of religion, than could you explain this point of view please?

That's the reality, the "nature" of all things created, not religion. Religion is an invention of humans used to control peoples -and- discredit the very real supernatural. I am not part of any organized religion, yet I have full faith and trust in the "Big Guy".  Wink


25 Seb146 : This is what I do not understand about religous types. Every life is sacred. I agree with that statement. However, if a person is lying in hospital wi
26 IAirAllie : Thats one big leap of assumption. In this senario there is nothing wrong with his brain. Technology is amazing there is lots of adaptive technology o
27 Flexo : The answers to all of the above should be up to the people themselves. It is their life and it should be up to them to decide when they want to die.
28 Daleaholic : My personal view is that people should have every right to die. It's their life... not the government's or the doctor's or the police's life. If someb
29 Cadet57 : Sure, but who is to say it wont take 30 years for that cure to come. So by then he's now 60 and spent half his life in that state. However, I do see
30 FruteBrute : This topic is just like gay marriage. How? The only reasoning that can be used to be opposed to it is rooted in religious beliefs and religion. Neithe
31 Flexo : I disagree. The tax exemptions for married people are there for only one reason: Society expects to live on due to the children married couples regul
32 Ch1nsAc : So should hetero couples with one partner unable to conceive not receive these benefits? What about men who've had the 'snip'? What about people who
33 Mir : There is such thing as adoption. -Mir
34 Flexo : Sure there's open issues that make sense to discuss but that's better left to another thread. The point of my post was to prove that it is possible t
35 Cadet57 : So adoption just does not enter into the equation?
36 TheCol : And you're a cop? Very reassuring...
37 MD80fanatic : I think the tax exemption should be abolished to make it fair for all.
38 A332 : I agree 100%. Once a person reaches adulthood, it is their choice whether they want to live life or exit early. Terminally ill folk... why the heck s
39 Oa260 : Yes I agree . If I got to a stage where I had a terminal condition that would get worse and leave me dependant on friends and family then I wouldn't
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