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Vienna Tram Operator Fired For Nazi Salute!  
User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2917 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7695510.stm

Isn't this going a little over the top? The guy admitted that he was joking and its obvious he's no white supremacist. This is political correctness going too far.........


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26929 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Still he was working for a national company in uniform and it was a stupid thing to do. He has paid the price. It was totally wrong what he did.

User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2075 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1875 times:

In any other country, fireing him would have been over the top. But in Germany or Austria, you pretty much have it coming. Everyone here knows that Nazi symbols are where the fun stops, whether you like it or not.


Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6321 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

Rara is right on, this is no laughing matter in this part of Europe. It still runs deep and hits a nerve, even with those who were not alive during the Holocaust (or even those whose PARENTS weren't alive). I travel Germany/Austria a lot and I remember from my very first trip, at age 8 or 9 or something along those lines, I was told to not even say the word Nazi in public...remember this is still somewhat fresh in memory...think of slavery in the US and how some people are still very, very bitter about it 150+ years later...this was just 60-70 years ago, less than half that time.

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1867 times:

Good thing I wasn't on board his tram or I would have punched him in the face. Seriously.  ouch 


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1864 times:



Quoting Rara (Reply 2):
But in Germany or Austria, you pretty much have it coming. Everyone here knows that Nazi symbols are where the fun stops, whether you like it or not.

-
Absolutely. There must be a definite line, which he clearly crossed.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1848 times:



Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
This is political correctness going too far.........

No, it is not. Suggesting that this is political correctness is an insult to all Germans, Austrians and victims of the Nazis. What the tram driver did was misrepresent the company that operates Vienna's trams. Yelling "Sieg Heil!" as a joke and in uniform must have its consequences (even the use for educational and artistic purposes, like in the film "Der Untergang" or in satirical spoofs such as "Obersalzberg" in the TV show Switch Reloaded, is heavily restricted), which is why I also support a criminal prosecution of the man and hope he gets the maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. His "apology" won't change anything.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1833 times:



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
hope he gets the maximum sentence of 10 years in prison

-
This however then indeed would be a bit exaggerated. I expect that he will get a conditional prison sentence of a few months with a "test period". And he of course will never find a job with public transport again.
-
That Vienna Public Transport only took action after the incident got reported in a Jewish newspaper is a bit strange, to put it mildly. Does this mean that nothing would have happened without that news report ?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19552 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1834 times:



Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
Isn't this going a little over the top? The guy admitted that he was joking and its obvious he's no white supremacist. This is political correctness going too far.........

Think of it as similar to joking that you have a bomb on a plane. It's just not a laughing matter in Germany and Austria.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1828 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
It's just not a laughing matter in Germany and Austria.

-
It would not be a laughing matter in Switzerland either. Such a tram-driver would be shifted to either the technical services, the warehouse or the background-offices immediately, and get stronly reprimanded.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

I would have beaten him up, seriously. He deserved it.
I am surprised nobody did.  Yeah sure



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1810 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
I would have beaten him up, seriously. He deserved it.
I am surprised nobody did.

-
People apparently are against violence ! But according to the report, quite many apparently voiced their anger, and somebody out of them took the story to the right paper for the purpose.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

Here the link to the video
-
http://video.vol.at/video/28571/----...--durchsage-in-wiener-stra--enbahn
-
which shows that one man quite clearly not just was outraged but took name and licence number of that driver. And when seeing this video I might suppose that this driver even was seriously drunk.
-
and here the full report in "Die Jüdische" ... (in German)
-
http://www.juedische.at/TCgi/_v2/TCg...m_Kat=3&Param_RB=2&Param_Red=10624

[Edited 2008-10-29 12:14:18]

User currently offlineN229NW From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1946 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1789 times:



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
No, it is not. Suggesting that this is political correctness is an insult to all...

Of course it is political correctness. But it probably isn't political correctness gone too far.

It's only a bunch of reactionaries who have turned the word "political correctness" into something always negative--so they basically just use the term to mean something THEY disagree with...political correctness at root just means thinking about what you are saying or doing to remember that those who have not traditionally had a dominant voice in society have feelings and rights as well. This is exactly that: a textbook example.

In any case, the guy is an idiot.

Then again, Vienna still has all kinds of public places named after Karl Lueger...



It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Can you get this one to quit for doing it as well.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting





You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39851 posts, RR: 74
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Good riddance!
Even if it was meant to be a joke, he crossed way over the line. People lose their jobs all the time for making a bad joke. Nazi salutes is no laughing matter, especially in Europe.

I find it interesting that is younger conservative here in the United States that have no concept of history that are the main one complaining about "political correctness".

Alberchico, not saying you fit that model but this is hardly "political correctness going too far".



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1779 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 1):
He has paid the price. It was totally wrong what he did.



Quoting SW733 (Reply 3):
Rara is right on, this is no laughing matter in this part of Europe



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5):
Absolutely. There must be a definite line, which he clearly crossed.



Quoting N229NW (Reply 13):
In any case, the guy is an idiot.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
Nazi salutes is no laughing matter, especially in Europe.

I agree with all the, the guy is a moron, no doubt, but whenever these sort of things happen, I always wonder why the nazi salute and symbols are frobidden (rightfully) yet the Soviet or communist salute and symbols are not only legal, but accepted and followed by many people, and yet they represent the same if not more deaths than the swastika.
Members of my family were persecuted, some killed, abnd those that weren't, were forced to leave their houses and forced to move. All this was done by the communists, Tito's army to be more specific, yet wearing the red star is ok ...



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineAircraftGeek From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

This guy was really an idiot but...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
I also support a criminal prosecution of the man and hope he gets the maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. His "apology" won't change anything.

c'mon, not even pedophiles gets so much (and they deserve a lot more!)...


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39851 posts, RR: 74
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1772 times:



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 16):
yet the Soviet or communist salute and symbols are not only legal, but accepted and followed by many people, and yet they represent the same if not more deaths than the swastika.

It's not the number of deaths that is offensive, it's the reason why people were killed.
Hilter killed people based on race, disability and national origin. You know, things you are born with. Stalin killed people for political reasons. If you kissed his ass and complied with his sick ideology, you lived.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1757 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
It's not the number of deaths that is offensive, it's the reason why people were killed.
Hilter killed people based on race, disability and national origin. You know, things you are born with. Stalin killed people for political reasons. If you kissed his ass and complied with his sick ideology, you lived.

Not entirely ... Hitler also killed for political reasons, and Stalin also killed for no reason. And if he only killed for political reasons, how on earth is the political symbol he used for killing still legal today???
And you are right, the number is not important, yet 10 million seems to be acceptable, or at least overlooked. People can walk around with a Che guevara T-shirt and it's ok ... what did he represent? Try walking around with a Mussolini T-shirt and you'll make the headlines ...



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39851 posts, RR: 74
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1750 times:



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 19):
Not entirely ... Hitler also killed for political reasons, and Stalin also killed for no reason. And if he only killed for political reasons, how on earth is the political symbol he used for killing still legal today???
And you are right, the number is not important, yet 10 million seems to be acceptable, or at least overlooked. People can walk around with a Che guevara T-shirt and it's ok ... what did he represent? Try walking around with a Mussolini T-shirt and you'll make the headlines ...

I don't know what else to tell you.
Wearing a shirt boasting a failed ideology seems stupid to me.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1750 times:



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
No, it is not. Suggesting that this is political correctness is an insult to all Germans, Austrians and victims of the Nazis. What the tram driver did was misrepresent the company that operates Vienna's trams. Yelling "Sieg Heil!" as a joke and in uniform must have its consequences (even the use for educational and artistic purposes, like in the film "Der Untergang" or in satirical spoofs such as "Obersalzberg" in the TV show Switch Reloaded, is heavily restricted), which is why I also support a criminal prosecution of the man and hope he gets the maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. His "apology" won't change anything.

What do you make of Mel Brooks' The Producers?


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1742 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Wearing a shirt boasting a failed ideology seems stupid to me.

There we agree, but I still fail to understand how one is legal and ok whereas the other is forbidden and makes the news' headlines if someone even jokes about it.



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5694 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1723 times:



Quoting N229NW (Reply 13):
Then again, Vienna still has all kinds of public places named after Karl Lueger...

I guess that's the reason why the Vienna mayor himself recently unveiled Che Guevara's sculpture in Donaupark... to provide a "healthy balance" of brown and red evil!?!?

http://www.austrianews.co.uk/2008/10...0/che-guevara-sculpture-in-vienna/

Peoples Party federal manager Norbert Walter labelled the sculpture as “curious” and “distasteful”. He recommended Viennas mayor to sleep in Che Guevara bedclothes, instead of supporting such kind of monuments.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Stalin killed people for political reasons. If you kissed his ass and complied with his sick ideology, you lived.

Sure... it was just THAT simple. What about Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot, Hoxha, Gottwald, Kims and many others? Such a shame you weren't around to enlighten those tens of millions killed with a magical survival trick.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39851 posts, RR: 74
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1720 times:



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 23):
Sure... it was just THAT simple. What about Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot, Hoxha, Gottwald, Kims and many others? Such a shame you weren't around to enlighten those tens of millions killed with a magical survival trick.

All of it was horrible. Not defending any of the above. No need for you to get so bent out of shape.



Bring back the Concorde
25 Mir : I'm struggling to see the difference on that one. Bottom line: the guy was stupid to do what he did. I don't agree with him getting 10 years in jail,
26 Superfly : Well I was only speculating and yes I agree that Stalin was horrible as well. I think I already mentioned that but somehow, another member interprete
27 LTU932 : As I said before, the artistic use of such things is highly regulated, and I personally have nothing against that. For example, I like satirical spoo
28 PSA727 : So Stalin killing a bunch of Ukrainians through starvation (by taking away the food they harvested, no less) was strictly political, and had nothing
29 Superfly : See above.
30 L410Turbolet : I wasn't accusing you of praising Stalin (who btw was an "amateur mass murderer" compared to e.g. Mao), but one would have to be blind not to see the
31 Superfly : I think we are both saying the same thing. Perhaps I should have prefaced reply #18 that I was only speculating or being devil's advocate for sake of
32 AviationMaster : I agree with giving him a fine and firing him, but ten years? Not even murderers and pedophiles get this much in Europe. Well, it did happen on a Sat
33 EZEIZA : ... and in Argentina they also made a sculpture about him ad showed it all over Buenos Aires (cutting streets, creating a huge traffic chaos) as THE
34 L410Turbolet : It did and purely from the angle of form not substance its quite amazing how iconic the photo has become.
35 LH526 : Welcome to my respected user list! My thoughts exactly!
36 Dougloid : You had to do a lot more than that. 'Fly, you're a man of many parts and I'll bet there are some good used bookstores in your town. If you have not d
37 Superfly : Scroll up and re-read my following post.
38 SOBHI51 : Never thought you are a violent lady.This guy was drunk and stupid,would you like to spend few months in prison for hitting him? Ok i agree this was
39 Superfly : Out government is pretty tough on these types, thus they aren't an issue. You might want to take a look at how Russia handles skinheads. They do noth
40 SOBHI51 : I agree with you it is more of a problem in Europe including Russia than the USA.
41 ME AVN FAN : - let's not forget that many of those "Soviet/Communist symbols" are the same or at least similar to symbols of legal non-communist social-democratic
42 EZEIZA : being a public transport driver, being drunk at work ... now that is a much more serious and dangerous offence. And for that he should be punished an
43 Dougloid : I did, and I stand coreectificated, as our Prez would say. We're on the same page here.
44 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - Here the state-flag of the NON-communist Republic of Austria : - - the symbol in question is older than 1917, and is also in use on the flags of An
45 Alberchico : I remember reading that Aeroflot did a poll and found that many people still liked the hammer and sickle. Even today in Russia many people wear t shi
46 Acheron : Maybe because after 80 something years, it pretty much became part of their branding rather than a representation of an ideology. Pretty much like mo
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