NAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9076 posts, RR: 37 Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1427 times:
The October 2002 nightclub bombings in Kuta on the Island of Bali has been described as 'Australia's 9/11.' 202 people were killed, and many others horribly burned; the majority of them Australian tourists. It was especially sad that many of the dead and injured were youngsters, a high proportion of them being sportsmen celebrating the end of the Australian football season.
The three people who loosed off the bombs were eventually caught, tried, and sentenced; and have now been executed by firing-squad.
I would like to thank the Indonesian authorities for catching and sentencing these people according to their law; a very courageous act, since their action will not be at all popular with the large number of militants in Indonesian society. Thanks are also due to the Australian Federal Police and the Diplomatic Service, who spent year upon year in patient negotiation with the Indonesian Government to make sure that the case was properly investigated; and even to our politicians on both sides of the political fence, all of whom 'closed ranks' and supported the campaign without a word of dissent.
As to them being executed; I have an open mind on the subject of the death penalty. We don't have it any more in Australia. But there's no doubt that, given that Indonesia still has it, no-one could possibly deserve it more than these three..........
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1387 times:
Here in Indonesia, there is clearly a heightened police and security presence, for fear of retalatory action by extremist militants against western targets, including hotels, apartment buildings and upscale shopping malls as well as various tourist centers accross the country. Let's not forget that, apart from the 2002 Bali bombing, Muslim extremists were also responsible for a second Bali attack as well as the blasts at the Jakarta JW Marriott and the Austrialian embassy.
QANTAS077 From China, joined Jan 2004, 5745 posts, RR: 49 Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1366 times:
bad move, should've left them to rot in a far corner of Indonesia, instead I suspect we'll see more terrorist activity in Indonesia, certainly doesn't look good for 3 of the Bali 9 either.
a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
Fridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1383 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1275 times:
Well done and Thank You Indonesia!
And another Well Done and Thank You to the Australian authorities!
Hope the bastards rot in Hell!
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
MadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10241 posts, RR: 40 Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1193 times:
Some atrocious form of torture might have been a better solution. Killing them is too easy on these horrible people. To in-human behaviour, in-human consequences and punishment. That death penalty is too light.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13872 posts, RR: 28 Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1173 times:
Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter): As to them being executed; I have an open mind on the subject of the death penalty. We don't have it any more in Australia. But there's no doubt that, given that Indonesia still has it, no-one could possibly deserve it more than these three..........
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As much as I am against the death penalty, as Indonesia has it, it is correct that it was carried out
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Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 3): they should have been burned to death
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Justice wherever is to be done according to the law in place and NOT in the way of "lynch justice"
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WarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6491 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1161 times:
No mercy for them, just killers of innocent people.. They deserved to die.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
CupraIbiza From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 831 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1111 times:
My personal feelings of vengence wanted them to be removed from this earth. My logical side thinks that unfortunatley this is exactly what they and their supporters wanted. i.e martyrdom. As Qantas077 stated they should have been locked in a jail, with no access to the outside world. No visitors, no correspondence, no frigging internet access like they had.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
NAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9076 posts, RR: 37 Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1073 times:
Looks like a case of 'so far so good' up to now.
The Indonesian security forces are on high alert and Australia has a travel warning out, as you'd expect. But the funerals of the three killers were attended by mobs numbering hundreds rather than thousands, and although there was TV coverage of a bit of 'pushing and shoving' against the police lines, there was no out-and-out violence.
All the signs so far are that militants are very much in the minority in Indonesia. The rest of the place seems to be well aware that they depend on foreign investment, and in particular on the tourist trade (which was, of course, pole-axed by the original Bali bombing).
Full marks too to this bloke. If only more Muslim religious leaders would spell this message out:-
"The head of Indonesia's top Islamic body, the Majelis Ulama Indonesia, denounced the three bombers, saying they had not died as martyrs as they wished.
"To die as a martyr is impossible; people who kill cannot be said to be martyrs unless it is war," MUI head Umar Shihab told detik.com.
"I think it's not right. We are not at war. We are in peace and what they did, they killed Muslims."
Quoting JoshSixtySeven (Reply 10): A firing squad seems rather leniant however, I'm sure we could have come up with something FAR more intresting for these animals.
Personally, I'd have buried them with a slice of Ham in their mouth. Kind of make the rest of the radicals think twice about spending eternity tasting a piece of pork. Martyrdom for these people is seen as some sort of divine ending, so we have to make not death itself abhorent, but what follows has to be the deterent. Hence my solution.
WunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 32 Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1004 times:
Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 2): bad move, should've left them to rot in a far corner of Indonesia, instead I suspect we'll see more terrorist activity in Indonesia, certainly doesn't look good for 3 of the Bali 9 either.
Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 9): My personal feelings of vengence wanted them to be removed from this earth. My logical side thinks that unfortunatley this is exactly what they and their supporters wanted. i.e martyrdom. As Qantas077 stated they should have been locked in a jail, with no access to the outside world. No visitors, no correspondence, no frigging internet access like they had.
SOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 992 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6): Justice wherever is to be done according to the law in place and NOT in the way of "lynch justice"
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I was in Bali 48 hours after the bombing.Went to see the area.Even from a distance you can still smell the odor of burnt bodies.It was terrible.Smell stayed with me for months.Maybe if you went there you will have my same sentiments.
I was there the week after, in Ubud. Denpasar airport was totally deserted, so was Ubud. I took a taxi up to the mountains to stay with my same Balinese family as usual. I did not want to go to Kuta. Never seen Ubud so empty of tourists, hardly one of them. Everybody had gone.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
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What I mean is that the Indonesians were correct to carry the sentence through, as it is justified. Had those men done the same in Western Europe, they would have got life-sentences but not death penalties as the death penalty in Western Europe is abolished. So that it in a way is quite good that they did it in a country where executions still are carried out.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 891 times:
Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 9): My logical side thinks that unfortunatley this is exactly what they and their supporters wanted. i.e martyrdom.
As much as I am for the death penalty, this unfortunately could have the unwanted side effect that those who were executed, died as martyrs in the eyes of other islamic terrorist.
I would have been in favour of torture and a daily 23 hour a day hard labour shift, simply to crush their spirits, and to crush their bodies, so they would spend the rest of their lives begging for mercy and forgiveness.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13872 posts, RR: 28 Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 880 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18): I would have been in favour of torture and a daily 23 hour a day hard labour shift, simply to crush their spirits, and to crush their bodies
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The lawful state is indivisible. You canNOT have a decent and correct law state on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and a state retaliating against illdoers by some medieval methods on Tuesday and Thursday.
NAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9076 posts, RR: 37 Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 827 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19): You canNOT have a decent and correct law state on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and a state retaliating against illdoers by some medieval methods on Tuesday and Thursday.
Couldn't agree more. If we sink to their level of savagery we will simply be proving that we are no better than they are.
Quoting Photopilot (Reply 12): Personally, I'd have buried them with a slice of Ham in their mouth. Kind of make the rest of the radicals think twice about spending eternity tasting a piece of pork.
And THAT would be proving that the 'radicals' are right, in the sense that Christians, Muslims, and Jews are locked into an endless, hate-filled religious war.
In any case, in practical terms, such actions would be counter-productive. The majorty of people worldwide, regardless of their religions, simply want an an end to terrorism and conflict, so that they can get on with living out their lives in peace. If we answer terrorist outrages with outrages of our own, we are simply increasing support for the 'hard-liners' in Muslim countries.
That's why episodes like Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and the recent policy of bombing Afghan and Pakistani villages are so ill-advised. They give the radicals ample evidence of our 'wickedness' to use in their recruiting campaigns.
The only chance of ever winning this struggle is to win over the 'hearts and minds' of the ordinary people in the Muslim world. And we won't stand a chance of doing that if we continually answer terrorism with terrorism.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16808 posts, RR: 57 Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 806 times:
I have so many different thoughts on this.
First, I could care less what happens to the bombers. Kill them, jail them for life, whatever you want. Just don't let them go free where they can do this again.
The problem is that killing them (or imprisoning them for life) does nothing to prevent this from happening again. They WANTED to die. They are martyrs now and, if their beliefs are correct, they are enjoying the 72(?) virgins.
So, what's the solution? Perhaps a public demonstration of the Chinese "Death by 1000 Cuts"? (Look it up if you're not familiar, but I recommend you do so on an empty stomach).
Dougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 793 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21): The problem is that killing them (or imprisoning them for life) does nothing to prevent this from happening again. They WANTED to die. They are martyrs now and, if their beliefs are correct, they are enjoying the 72(?) virgins
That's called specific deterrence.
25 Babybus: The trouble with state executions is that they are often using the excuse to get rid of any state enemies. Let's hope they caught the right people and
26 NAV20: DocLightning, my impression (from seeing them many times on TV, they had almost unlimited access to the media) was that they were so cocky because th
27 ME AVN FAN: - "STATE executions" ? as opposed to "private executions" ? No, the point of course is that the justice-system is to be as independent of the politic
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