BlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 6 Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 12396 times:
Well...The F1 2008 season is officially done, and It was a pretty good season all around.
As The final testing of the season has begun, and the previous brazil thread was over 400 replies...I thought it was a fitting time to begin this thread.
The Driver Market is still pretty interesting, apparently Force India Drivers could lose their seats, and Toro Rosso, and Honda have not confirmed their driver line ups.
I haven't really followed the new tech regs, but have they shortened the width of the cars again?
That rear spoilers looks ridiculous. Those tech limitations are becoming insane and useless.
How hard would it be to just limit the teams' budget so that everybody spent a moderate amount of money on their car. You'd kill 2 birds with one stone, and bring more teams into the game (instead of driving them out...)
The KERS system will be interesting though. How's that going?
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
BAPILOT2B From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 927 posts, RR: 24 Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 12351 times:
Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3): Here is the picture (taken from F1-Live.com):
Don't like the new rear wing at all, looks well out of place. And the BMW Sauber nose looks very reminiscent of the old Williams 'walrus tusk' design on the FW26 back in 2004.
Why the hell did they greately reduce the size of that rear spoiler? Is it because of the upcoming re-introduction of the slicks? That looks just grotesque.
Plus I don't like the fact that the issue with the standard engine is still in play. If that happens, it will hurt F1.
ScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12324 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7): Why the hell did they greately reduce the size of that rear spoiler? Is it because of the upcoming re-introduction of the slicks? That looks just grotesque
They are trying to reduce dependence on aero. It may make cars look like crap, but hopefully it means better racing. Cars have changed over the years. this is just another evolution in the history of f1 cars.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16574 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12307 times:
Francoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3195 posts, RR: 10 Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12293 times:
Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 8): They are trying to reduce dependence on aero. It may make cars look like crap, but hopefully it means better racing.
I don't hold many hopes. They have done that kind of things for years now, with no real good results.
As a matter of fact I believe that the recent increase in competition level (at least between the 3 top teams) had nothing to do with the FIA's latest tech regulations.
A common engine might bring the teams closer, but as with everything else, the big teams will spend fortunes on developing the car and smaller teams won't be able to compete, even with the same engine. The same has happened with tires.
On top of that, they are slowly removing the manufacturer side of the sport from the competition, which is a BIG mistake in my opinion.
If they want everybody to have the same level of competitivity while keeping a decent number of teams and keeping the technology war going, all they have to do is make every team spend the same amount of money on developing and racing the car. This way they could keep making their own engines, chassis, etc (or subcontract) and all have a fighting chance while retaining their manufacturer national pride.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12285 times:
Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 8): They are trying to reduce dependence on aero. It may make cars look like crap, but hopefully it means better racing.
I doubt that. Aerodynamic adjustments are a big part of motorsports in general, and what FIA is doing is killing another true motorsports aspect of F1, just as they killed lots of F1 over the years and keep doing.
Waterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1649 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12234 times:
Quoting Francoflier (Reply 10):
If they want everybody to have the same level of competitivity while keeping a decent number of teams and keeping the technology war going, all they have to do is make every team spend the same amount of money on developing and racing the car. This way they could keep making their own engines, chassis, etc (or subcontract) and all have a fighting chance while retaining their manufacturer national pride.
Maybe, but spending is even harder to regulate than things like aerodynamic devices and engines. Think about it... teams like Ferrari and Mclaren already have massive infrastructure and sponsorship deals that pump tens of millions of dollars directly into the development of their cars, and for the FIA to attempt to come in between that money and the cars and say "No, you can only have as much money as the poorest team in F1" would be impossible and fly in the face of the history of the sport. It's one thing to have a salary cap on a sports franchise, quite another to limit the spending of a team like Ferrari.
ScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12222 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 11): I doubt that. Aerodynamic adjustments are a big part of motorsports in general, and what FIA is doing is killing another true motorsports aspect of F1, just as they killed lots of F1 over the years and keep doing.
this is not the end of aero aspects of f1 car design. In fact, more restrictions make it more of a challenge for designers and engineers to come up with downforce adding bits. We may be seeing the end of winglets, barge boards, etc. but teams will still be using wind tunnels, CFD, and prototyping to make their cars the best.
The only time we will see the end of aerodynamic adjustments in f1 is when the cars become spec and all the are allowed to do is adjust wings like they do in pitstops.
I think we should all take a wait and see approach. None of us are privy to any information on how teams are handling the new design constraints, but we may have a better time watching racing. Talking about how the new rules will limit this or that, and not help this, is premature. We have only seen one or two teams with 2009 spec aero. Some drivers have already said it will increase overtaking.
StealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5431 posts, RR: 49 Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12183 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 11): Aerodynamic adjustments are a big part of motorsports in general, and what FIA is doing is killing another true motorsports aspect of F1, just as they killed lots of F1 over the years and keep doing.
As Scrubbs said, they are not killing aerodynamic adjustments.
What they are attempting to do is reduce the total amount of aero influence and the reliance on expensive, yet invisiblle to the fans, wind tunnel development. At the same time increasing the passing opportunities by reducing the effect the disturbed air has on following cars.
In some ways adjustability of the aero package is increasing because the driver will be able to adjust the front wing, which is wider and simpler than before (and inordinately ugly in versions see thus far), allowing them a simpler way to maintain car balance than previously avaialble.
The barge boards, winglets and various other bits & bobs are gone for 2009 and this will save millions in develoment.(as well as make the cars better looking)
I am a little confused about some of the combinations currently being tested though. I understand the need to obtain comparison data but some of the hybrid cars just don't seem to make sense to me.
Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
Now there will be a catch for someone, not unattractive and I am sure Bernie will not get out of this without writing a substantial.. make that .. a huge cheque!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
StealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5431 posts, RR: 49 Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 12072 times:
Breaking News at this time....
Mark Webber has been seriously injured when he was hit by a car while competing in his own Mark Webber Pure Tasmania Challenge.
GrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2513 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12052 times:
I was a bit worried when I read the French news as they were more or less saying that he was seriously injured. But if it's "only" a broken leg, then it's better than what I thought.
Looks like it's more dangerous to go cycling than performing two flips at 330 km/h in Le Mans!!
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16574 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12038 times:
Quoting StealthZ (Reply 19): Breaking News at this time....
Mark Webber has been seriously injured when he was hit by a car while competing in his own Mark Webber Pure Tasmania Challenge.
Bill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8320 posts, RR: 9 Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12002 times:
Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 22): Looks like it's more dangerous to go cycling than performing two flips at 330 km/h in Le Mans!!
Obviously his bike wasn't built by Mercedes.
25 LTU932: The German news said that he was injured seriously, but emphasised at the same time that the injuries weren't life threatening.
26 StealthZ: The news here in Sydney said that as well, but then they are all running the same AAP story A cutting barb for the Aussie media.... from AAP & SMH, h
27 Alessandro: Perhaps David Coulthard will make a comeback? He´s the testdriver for Red Bull right now.
28 GrahamHill: He will miss the winter tests but will be back for the start of the season.
29 BlueElephant: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72225 Red Bull has confirmed that Mark Webber should be fit for Melbourne. However if he's not...I don't
30 GrahamHill: That's highly possible. Even if Mark is not ready for the start of the season, I don't think he will miss the whole season, so Buemi could indeed do
31 Alessandro: Hmm, I think DC is still the best option if Webber can´t drive? Why kick out S.Buemi as testdriver if he is better than DC? I think BBC surely will a
32 EZEIZA: Ladues & gents, sorry if this has been poted before but at a first glance I didn't see it. Is it true that Bernie wants to take away the current point
33 GrahamHill: I did not hear this another-great-idea-from-uncle-Bernie, but if it's true, then I will be totally convinced that he has lost his mind.
34 LTU932: I've heard about it, andI also believe that Bernie has once again lost his mind.
35 ScrubbsYWG: the 50% stake of STR that Berger owned has been bought back by Red bull. Looks like they are trying to make it easier to sell the team.
36 StealthZ: I had heard about it but do not believe it was a serious proposal. Considering the current points system was designed to maintain interest in the cha
37 Scbriml: Here's mad Bernie explaining how the lack of overtaking has nothing to do with cars or circuits, but the fact that drivers don't get "gold medals" for
38 GrahamHill: I cannot imagine that such an important man in F1, that deals with billions of dollars, can come up with a stupid theory like that. I am hesitating b
39 LTU932: " target=_blank>http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...8.stm Suffice to say, I fully agree with Eddie Jordan. Fact is that for a long time, many regu
40 EZEIZA: It's official then, Bernie lost his mind! Besides, a medal system would mean that ptentially the wdc could be awarded with several races to go, right?
41 B747forever: He,he that is true. I highly doubt that this medals thing will ever happpen. It would just quell the sport. Amazing that he can come up with somethin
42 KiwiRob: I tried to get into F1 this year but couldn't it's still as boring as hell, F1 hasn't been worth watching since the halcyon days of Prost, Senna, Mans
43 StealthZ: There are a couple of catches to Bernie's medal theory. I think it would have only changed the result in one out of the last 10 years, yes 2008.(imagi
44 Boeing74741R: I can't believe that Bernie is that daft to come up with such a proposal! I don't know. First they do a radical revamp of the cars which, in my opinio
45 GrahamHill: Which is not what Bernie wants. He always says that the ideal situation for Formula One is that the championship title is decided at the last corner
46 B747forever: Toyota will also launch its car in January, making it the 4th team: http://www.f1.com/news/headlines/2008/11/8740.html Anyone know when Ferrari will l
47 EZEIZA: Exactly! Despite (or thanxs to) the controversy, of who is a good driver and who has the best car, or any other of the discussions we had this season
48 Scbriml: Which is actually no different to the points system, is it? If one driver/car combination is dominant, the WDC is likely all over several races befor
49 StealthZ: It can be quite different to the points system. Under Bernie's plan driver A could win 6 races and DNF the other 12, driver B might win 5 be 2nd 3-4
50 Bill142: if Bernies system had been in place during 2008, Massa would have been WDC not Hamilton as Massa had more wins. The medals system rewards pot luck rat
51 Scbriml: My point was quite simply that with either system it's perfectly feasible for the WDC to be decided several races before the end of the season. Peopl
52 Scbriml: Indeed. Massa's one extra race victory would have been the one he was gifted by the race stewards at Spa!
53 EZEIZA: Not really. Let's assume LH has the best combination for 2009 and Massa is just behind. And by mid season LH won 7 races and Massa came 2nd in all of
54 B747forever: Hehe, so true. Well I think that the driver that takes the most points is the one that should win the WDC. I think that as it is today is good. Maybe
55 Scbriml: Somewhat stating the obvious. I'm not actually disagreeing with you, and I thought I'd made my position clear - IN GENERAL, most seasons the driver w
56 EZEIZA: I agree the winner should have more points. at least 5 over 2nd place, and also the top three should have a greater difference compared to 4th place.
57 B747forever: True there is just one point between 3rd and 4th. It should be at least 2.
58 TIMC: Always makes me laugh when people say that. Anyone remember Christiano di Matta? He claimed he was better than most of the drivers in F1 at the time,
59 StealthZ: And there are others.. Zanardi, Andretti(Michael) even Montoya. Cheers
60 LTU932: Out of all those, I say Montoya was the worst. A polarising figure who has nothing but hate for most of F1. Recently I saw in a TV show that he does
61 EZEIZA: ... and F1 already has Alonso for that ...
62 KiwiRob: True but Dixon is a Kiwi and wouldn't have the attitude that the Amewrican drivers come over with. Also don't forget Jacques Villeneuve was a champio
63 LTU932: Alonso isn't nearly as bad as Juan Pablo Montoya was. At least Alonso has success that backs him up, unlike that wannabe driver JPM.
64 EZEIZA: That's true, but what I know for sure is that I could not handle both of them together. I hope JPM never comes back ... but if he ever has to, I'd lo
65 Bill142: Bah! Formula One needs Juan Pablo Montoya. Purely for his personality. Otherwise we're stuck with these boring monotone robots ruled by the PR departm
66 Jush: Absolutely wrong. By forbidding the aerodynamic helps the teams invented over the years and reintroducing only a proper front wing and rear spoiler t
67 Jush: Wrong! Making this ridiculous point structure we have now is a result with which the FIA tried to help the competitors of Michael Schumacher. By givi
68 EZEIZA: Jush, I agree with you that LH played safe and not to win the last few races, but the medal system could have him (or anyone else that has won 6 or 7
69 B747forever: What are you kidding?? So you want to see the F1 season be won by a driver in maybe 8races?? That would be soooo boring
70 GrahamHill: I disagree with that. If a driver wins 8 races and DNFs 8 times, he would probably be world champion without completing half of the season, which wou
71 LTU932: I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. As far as the medal system is concerned, I still stand by what I said, Bernard Charles Ecclestone has lost his mind,
72 BlueElephant: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72309 Sato's getting another Test...looks like Buemi isn't... If what was said earlier is true then It is
73 Scbriml: The BBC is reporting that Honda is about to announce their withdrawal from F1. If a buyer for the team cannot be found by the end of March, the team w
74 BlueElephant: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72319 HONDA SET TO QUIT F1!!!!!
75 BAPILOT2B: IF Honda pull out I can see Toyota doing the same within a week. It will be a very sad day when/if Honda pull out but it has happened in the past....
76 StealthZ: Perhaps as we have known it recently.. but the end? I doubt it. Absolutely, The current crisis in F1 can be squarely layed at the feet of Messrs. Ecc
77 B747forever: If Honda really will quite to race in F1, we need a new team. Without Honda we will be down to only 18 cars!
78 LTU932: So Honda wants to quit F1. Hell, they didn't even give Ross Brawn enough time to build them a half-way decent car, so they can progressively climb as
79 ScrubbsYWG: honda has announced the immediate withdrawal from f1. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72322 wow. i am surprised. this will shake things up
80 StealthZ: Mosely proposes standard Cosworth built engine .... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72324 Not sure about this but I think it has some meri
81 MadameConcorde: " target=_blank>http://www.autosport.com/news/report...72322 I will miss them greatly during the next season at the next Monaco GP. The Aguris are go
82 ScrubbsYWG: i to be honest, and i have said this before, i am almost more fearful of the future of f1 if max and/or bernie are gone. F1 is dynamic, and it has cha
83 Cornish: Make that 16 when Toyota follow Honda in a pull out.... Nobody is going to start up a new team for the next couple of years unless the customer car d
84 MadameConcorde: I fear more teams are going to leave... MyEarthDream You will be greatly missed... https://app.e2ma.net/app/view:Join/signupId:39367 Your 2007 blue ca
85 GrahamHill: Exactly! Not really! Apart from 2006, which was their best year, they never achieved anything decent in 2007 and 2008, finishing 9th in 2008 with 14
86 LTBEWR: With the Honda pullout, who know how many other companies may consider withdrawing from F1 and other areas of auto racing. I think F1 will have to mak
87 StealthZ: I believe the Honda announcement is just the beginning, many point to Toyota following suit but what of BMW, Mercedes, Renault etc... even Ferrari. I
88 Boeing74741R: Well, at least it's not being forced upon teams like it was originally being made out to be. Shame to hear about Honda pulling out. I wonder if Jenso
89 Gman94: I feel most sorry for the Ross Braun and the guys who took the decision to write off this season beofre it had started in favour of concentrating ever
90 Cornish: Really ? I may not be a fan of Bernie and Max but i won't lay this at their door. Problem is that Honda are seeing their global sales falling dramtic
91 GrahamHill: They are giving it up on the European market as well! Think about it: in 1998, 11 races out of 16 were in Europe (a bit less than 70%). In 2009, ther
92 Bill142: Maybe for you in North America. South Asian and Middle Eastern economies are amongst the booming economies in the world. Even with all the financial
93 B747forever: But why Toyota too?? I dont really get it.
94 Boeing74741R: To be honest, it was boring ten years ago when nearly 75% of races were being held in Europe as it kinda defeats the object of it being a 'world cham
95 LTU932: As an own team, you're right. But as an engine supplier, they've had a very successful history. Just remember the days when McLaren got its engines f
96 Alessandro: I think the talk of unifying the engines scared them off together with the cost. BTW any takers for Mr Button, will he replace Webber at RBR?
97 ScrubbsYWG: only if webber isnt back in time. otherwise, i think he will wait to see what kind of future the former honda team has, and then possibly go to STR
98 StealthZ: Agreed, but that is not expected to be a problem at this point. Certainly can't see a performance related reason to do it. Cheers
99 GrahamHill: You did not quote my whole sentence . I said "they never achieved anything decent in 2007 and 2008". They were of course a fantastic engine supplier
100 BlueElephant: There were talks of Prodrive taking over Honda....Richards wanted to get in...and Honda's willing to sell cheaply... Would they keep Button?...I don'
101 GrahamHill: According to The Guardian; he could do some tests for Torro Rosso. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008.../jensen-button-scuderia-toro-rosso
102 Bill142: Typically Max set the level required for the deal to go ahead to the number of teams that need things to be as cheap as possible to ensure their conti
103 Cornish: Whats not to get about it ? Despite being the world's biggest car manufacturer, and one of the most profitable, Toyota has been hit hard by the globa
104 Boeing74741R: Toyota aren't going to pull out any soon guys.
105 Cornish: Wow you're a real optimist. I'll be amazed if they are on the grid in 2010 (unless they have a stunning 2009 season). Most observers seem to think th
106 BlueElephant: I'm kinda interested to see what happens with Honda..I think someone might just buy them out (crossing fingers) Looks like Buemi is taking charge in
107 StealthZ: The current proposal from Max does not compel teams to use the Cosworth engine, there are three scenarios- 1/ Use the Cosworth/XR engine transmission
108 Sudden: Bring back Eddie Irvine as well, and the party can start! Those were the days. Indeed! Button's name will never be brought back on top now with Hamil
109 Bill142: Budget cap is still the best way to cut costs in F1. Do as you please as long as you don't spend over $XXXXXXX
110 StealthZ: So the results of the WMSC meeting are... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72459 Some highlights... 2009 Engine life to be doubled. Each dr
111 BlueElephant: Essentially if you don't have a good car by January 1st, you're not really going to be able to make to too much better. and no Refueling for 2010?...
112 LTU932: Personally, I have nothing against tyre warmers, but I do agree on a refueling ban. It would make F1 less strategic than it is today.
113 MadameConcorde: I am certainly not any F1 car engineer but I think the new changes announced by the Max and Benie duet I am not going to like them at all. Seems that
114 Scbriml: Hmm, unless they're rediculously expensive, it's difficult to see how their removal will save teams very much money. My only objection to refuelling
115 T1210s: Ban on refueling about bloody time making the cars harder to drive Wont having cold Tyre's be dangerous through?
116 MadameConcorde: Probably none. Now as a non-F1 car engineer I have a question. It seems to me that refueling or not refueling the amount of fuel in the car will be t
117 EZEIZA: Maybe its just me, but banning refueling ... could it have the potential of making races more boring? many times a race will start and whoever is in
118 LTU932: Doubtful. In fact, it wouldn't be the first time when refuelling was banned and back then, races were still exiting.
119 GrahamHill: Me too! Not to mention that races were biaised (I don't know if this is the appropriate word) because of fuel stops. Win was decided in pit stops and
120 B747forever: I agree so much with you. You took the words out of my mouth No but seriously, I would find the races more boring. Then we wont see any mistakes (lik
121 Bill142: Probably not. The challenge will be to have an engine that's exceptionally fuel efficient. This will allow teams to run a smaller fuel tank - additio
122 Scbriml: The driver who doesn't make mistakes hasn't been born yet. There will still be pit-stops for tyre changes. One set of tyres, especially for a heavy c
123 GrahamHill: Before 1994 and the introduction of refuelling, were cars stopping for tyres? My memory plays tricks on me . With 2008's tyre compound, they would in
124 EZEIZA: But it was a whole different game back then. Now refuling has become part of the race, and sometimes the race winner comes out of pit stops. Granted,
125 StealthZ: Admittedly it often closed a gap(or changed positions) but it is hardly racing. Back in the late 60's- 70's when many cars ran very similar mechanica
126 Scbriml: Yes, they certainly did. A quick, tyre change-only pit-stop was around 5 seconds. Here's an "average" pit-stop from 1993: http://uk.youtube.com/watch
127 GrahamHill: There are too much electronics in Formula One and that is the main problem to me. It has leveled the performances of the drivers. There are no more r
128 EZEIZA: I agree, and that is exactly why I don't think it will work today, because there is too much difference between cars. Back then, a good driver would
129 Waterpolodan: Refueling wasn't actually introduced in 1994, Brabham was the first team to realize that a car with a light fuel load could do fast enough lap times
130 StealthZ: There were differences in cars back then as well, an example Keke Rosberg. For years he struggled around the back of the field(indeed even to qualify
131 GrahamHill: Yes, only the best 11 races were taken into account. If we apply this system for the 2008 championship (with however the 2008 point attribution: 10 p
132 LTU932: Speaking of pit stops, here are a few funny ones from seasons past. http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=OilctTl9Xik Only downside, it didn't include some of
133 Bill142: That rule produced one of the most dramatic ending to a race in recent time. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IAgvS61J89U
134 B747forever: Well lets then bring in that system
135 GrahamHill: Nah, what is the point of racing 18 times if only 11 of your best results are taken into account? In the times were Formula 1 needs to save money bad
136 MadameConcorde: Slightly off topic although not really. A link to a picture of Hammy with Prince Albert of Monaco. http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/84...840%2c839638
137 Bill142: Force India retain Sutil and Fisichella. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72474 Despite rumors of de la Rosa and Paffett joining in the wak
139 Scbriml: IIRC, the number of best results that counted varied from season to season, depending how many races there were. According to wiki, in 1970, 11 of 13
140 T1210s: Off topic I know but subaru have quit the wrc leaving just two manufacturers citroen and ford and imo ford wont last long either http://news.sky.com/s
141 Cornish: " target=_blank>http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bus...sults I just saw this. I know Subaru have had a poor couple of years in the WRC, but anyone wh
142 Bill142: the question is, which one? My guess is Renault in 2010.
143 Cornish: I think Toyota and Renault will continue through 2009 but finish at the end of the season.
144 GrahamHill: Yeah, it's not good to be a car manufacturer at the moment
145 StealthZ: MotorSport-Actuell of Switzerland seems to be reporting that there may be a problem with the numbers of competing cars in F1. With it likely that ther
146 LTU932: A technical deal with McLaren? I thought Force India only had a deal with Mercedes. I'm sceptical because this would be a result of commercial issues
148 StealthZ: Ah, so it is true.. from Planet F1 The tifosi will probably claim that this was merely a smart commercial decision but how many really think this is o
149 Bill142: Conspiracy and Bribery. Makes you wonder if rules were bent, changed,ignored of invented as part of this buying.
151 EZEIZA: ouch! not good ... on this report (spanish) http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/ecc...ene/dasmot/20081220dasdasmot_1/Tes it doesn´t use the word "bought
152 LTU932: It proves to me that Ferrari is indeed getting favourable treatment by Bernie and Max. And even with them having favoured McLaren in the past, the poi
153 Bill142: Mosely thinking of reneging on his decision to stand down in October. I say sack the bastard before October comes. http://www.autosport.com/news/repor
154 Alessandro: Depends on the race planning I say, if you´re in the back of the pack and weather is wet or you expect wet weather, you could take chances of starti
156 StealthZ: So is the GPDA a chapter of the UAW? In something of a "let them eat cake statement" Massa has spoken out against pay cuts for F1 drivers. Speaking at
157 Bill142: Massa is a whining little weasel remember. It comes as no surprise that he's the one whinging about it. Perhaps if he's feeling the pinch he should g
158 EZEIZA: Actually I am surprised he said that. I would have expected it from Alonso .. in any case, it's plain stupid to say something like that. There are ma
159 T1210s: Why should they take a pay cut every single time they step in the car they put their lives on the line
160 EZEIZA: because they already make a fortune. A bus driver risks his like probably more than these guys do for 1% of what they make. Besides, any F1 driver th
161 GrahamHill: Yep, a UNICEF press conference and in Brazil where many of his fellow citizens live in favelas with the equivalent of a couple of dollars a day...
162 Bill142: Montezemolo sounding like someone who's KERS system isn't ready. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72576
163 StealthZ: He certainly is.. and is consistent about it even prompting criticism from Max Mosely about not wanting to do the difficult things that are part of F
164 LTBEWR: One has to believe with the worldwide economic problems that some teams will have to cut back due to loss of adversiting, sponsorship monies and manuf
165 StealthZ: Sydney Morning Herald is reporting that Mexico's Carlos Slim, the second richest man in the world and head of Telmex group, is taking over the Honda F
166 BlueElephant: " target=_blank>http://news.smh.com.au/sport/mexican....html I heard about him considering to do it. And I also heard about David Richards doing it. D
167 Bill142: I've also heard about this. Richards stated he can't do it alone and was looking for help from the middle east, but teaming up with Slim might just w
168 LTU932: Well, then he should not complain if he gets sacked from Ferrari later down the road, and has to return to doing what he used to do in the past, driv
169 StealthZ: Perhaps not, Autosport is reporting that there are still 4 interested parties and no deal has been done as yet. No announcement expected until the ne
170 StealthZ: Seems reports of Carlos Slim taking over Honda F1 were not only premature but completely misleading as well! GrandPrix.com reports .... Autosport.com
171 BlueElephant: Hmm...Interesting...I wonder how Montezemolo will take it. He hates street tracks (because Ferrari doesn't do well on them)...but this one would be i
172 Boeing74741R: To be honest, he achieved what he did (when not playing second fiddle/bitch to Schumacher) at Ferrari simply be having a great car during his time th
173 Bill142: And he was only ever at Ferrari purely for strategic marketing reasons. It's always helpful to have a local from one of your most important market in
174 EZEIZA: I liked Rubens ... he was the perfect nº2 driver for the team. He wasn't good enough to be Ferrari's main driver, but he was good enough to serve th
175 Bill142: He was. He let MS pass and sold cars, what more could you want?
176 Bill142: Ferrari to bring back the pit stop light system after it cost them a sure win in Singapore. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72621 In other
177 B747forever: Less exciting. No. I really look forward for that! Oh no. I really hope that the light system works properly this time.
178 EZEIZA: And was the fastest driver on the grid for a few seasons, only behind MS. Granted he had the best car, but you also have to know jow to drive it ...
181 StealthZ: What will be good about this years launches is that the cars will look pretty much as they will on the grid at Albert Park. In recent years quite gor
182 B747forever: But this season cars will looks really weird. Not as we are used to.
183 BlueElephant: Not Completely on topic...but Anyone see the EY 340? in the F1 scheme?! GORGEOUS. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/427
184 BlueElephant: Something more on topic. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090107091310.shtml According the most recent ING F1 Survey... McLaren is of
185 EZEIZA: If fans were "lost" they weren't fans in the first place. It's like supporting a football team and then out of the blue support the rival team. So al
186 B747forever: It looks really nice. Would love to take a flight on that aircraft! Concur. You always see the red flags!
187 Bill142: You can almost guarantee that they are Gen Y. Or it could simply be they're garnering fans because they're on top. That's how they got me back in 199
188 Baroque: If I understand that correctly, may the Lord give us followers but not fans. It is one thing to hear from cognoscenti but another altogether to hear
189 MadameConcorde: That's because I have been advertising Team McLaren all over Facebook. The Etihad A340 looks superb. I hope to run into it in some airport. I will ha
191 MadameConcorde: Thanks a lot StealthZ. I always loved painted aircrafts. This is certainly a great one! Maybe I should look into going to the AbuDhabi Grand Prix. It
192 B747forever: Are you going to attend the SIN GP?
193 GrahamHill: I read an article this morning in L'Équipe on Mosley's new ideas to reduce costs. http://www.lequipe.fr/Formule1/breve...ouillonne-d-idees-economique
194 EZEIZA: I miss the Argentina GP so much The atmosphere was Monzesque, with all the Italian descent living here you can imagine what team most people support.
195 GrahamHill: Me too. Especially when you consider that Argentian people are true motorsports fans. Just look at all the people gathered for WRC or at the moment f
196 EZEIZA: Correct and i could not agree more. As you say, the public here is huge. In local competitions, it's like going to a football match, and the big riva
198 StealthZ: From Moseley's letter to FOTA- That will change the game somewhat but I think it is still a fair way from happening. Cheers
199 Bill142: New Renault fails crash test. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72688 Murray Walker tips Kubica for 2009 title. http://www.autosport.com/new
200 B747forever: " target=_blank>http://www.autosport.com/news/grapev...72703 That is very interesting. But a BMW against both McLaren and Ferrari? I dont really thin
201 Bill142: Why not? BMW have shown solid progress over the past few seasons. I don't think they'll win the title in 2009 but I think they will make life very di
202 GrahamHill: They should send the Mégane, then. With maximum stars at the Euro-Ncap crash tests, it would do the trick If I were him, I would sign somewhere else
203 B747forever: That they dropped too much at the end of last season. I think there is a little more missing. Maybe the 2010 season. But I doubt it will happen this
204 Bill142: That's all part of the process of becoming a top team. They will have learnt from that and development will be much more intense in 2009.
205 Alessandro: Personally I think it´s more politics, sporting the Irish flag for Eddie Irvine when he was 3rd during the last race in 1998 did upset ther rulers o
206 GrahamHill: They actually gave up the development of the 2008 car at mid-season to focus on the development of the 2009 one. So I would indeed expect them to be
207 B747forever: Wow, I didnt know that. But wasnt that a bit stupid because Kubica had the chance to win the WDC.
208 GrahamHill: That's what Kubica complained about. He repeated many times that if BMW had kept the same pace in the second part of the season that the first one, h
209 Bill142: F60 launched http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72731 Looks an anorexic version of last years car....
210 GrahamHill: Nice! I can see that Ferrari took advantage of the "free zone" let by the FIA just under the air intake. Here is a large picture: [Edited 2009-01-12
211 Scbriml: What are those ugly vertical "posts" the mirrors are mounted on?
212 GrahamHill: That's the "aerodynamic free zone" or whatever the FIA calls it. Basically, the FIA forbids any aerodynamics appendix, except rear and front wings, a
213 StealthZ: The front wing bothers me, still trying to figure whose brain fart came up with that.(not Ferrari, the rulemakers) It looks to me that who ever leads
214 GrahamHill: Indeed And that is not going to improve overtaking manoeuvres as drivers will be scared to go for contact.
215 B747forever: Finally the F2009 is launched. Looks quite nice. That is really sad. Well we will wait and see if BMW did the right thing. Cant agree with you. It is
216 NA: Some more, and larger pics of the new Ferrari, in general a nice looking F1: http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fo...-38718-3.html#backToArticle=600741
217 NA: And the F60 in moving pictures: http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/video/...errari-enthuellt-rote-goettin.html
218 Bill142: Actually the F2009 hasn't been launched, but the F60 has :P well they should be avoiding contact in all circumstances. But accidental contact could p
219 Sudden: Interesting thing about the new design is that the driver is allowed to make adjustments to the wing from inside the cockpit, while driving. You need
220 GrahamHill: Absolutely. I just did not express myself clearly. What I meant is that drivers will be even more scared to overtake and risk any possible contact (i
221 B747forever: Whatever If that is true, then nooooooooooo. It is really sad. Really love wheel to wheel maneuvers!
222 Boeing74741R: Even though I despise the new-regulation rear wing, the Ferrari F60 does look good. Prefer the old-regulation aerodynamics though, but I'm not complai
223 GrahamHill: We'll see how it goes in Australia for the first round!
224 Sudden: The Toyota has now been virtually launched as well. Is this something new the teams are doing to be first out, one think. http://www.formula1.com/news
225 GrahamHill: Sweet Jesus! What is this horrible nose??
226 Sudden: I think you can sort of compare it with getting way to big shoes, it sticks out, and it is totally out or proportion. Massa find their Ferrari good l
227 MadameConcorde: I seem to much prefer the cars as they were before. I have to wait and see them racing (preferably for real) to really be able to give a definite ans
228 BA757: I'm not so sure these new cars look that bad, the rear wings look a bit peculiar, but the slicks are certainly a welcomed return, I can't wait to see
229 GrahamHill: I agree on that. The grooved tires (to reduce downforce and therefore allow more overtakes, according to the geniuses of the FIA) did nothing more th
230 Moo: BBC is reporting that Ron Dennis is to step down as McLaren F1 boss before the start of this years F1 season - Martin Whitmarsh will take over. http:/
231 Scbriml: There had been a lot of speculation that he would step down. I'm sure he's delighted that Hamilton won the WDC, but I'm equally sure he would have li
232 GrahamHill: The new McLaren: http://fr.f1-live.com/f1/fr/photos/2009/index_team-mclaren_01.shtml
233 B747forever: Looks nice. Isnt a big surprise. You really didnt see a lot nor heard of him last season.
234 BlueElephant: I hope Whitmarsh upholds The McLaren name and the morality and ethical values of the company. Great work to Ron Dennis. " target=_blank>http://fr.f1-
235 GrahamHill: He's been working at McLaren for 20 years and has been the CEO of McLaren Racing since 2004, so I guess the transition will be ok
236 GrahamHill: Let's compare: It's not obvious, but yes, it's slightly different.
237 MadameConcorde: Oh this is quite some news. I will miss him greatly. I hope he will be in Monaco and on other circuits and he will be staying with McLaren even if he
238 B747forever: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/1/8846.html raikkonen says that Ferrari will be probably the last team he will race with. So if he doesnt
239 Bill142: Ron Dennis stepping down as team principal has been on the cards for a long time. He was once rumoured to be Bernie Ecclestones successor. Martin Whit
240 B747forever: You think that McLaren and Hamilton will allow that. They are all in favor of Hamilton.
241 StealthZ: Ecclestone is still on his points reform crusade, these 2 quotes from Autosport.com and We go thru this crap every few years.. what happens when some
242 GrahamHill: I was not really convinced by Kova last year. I don't see him being anything but McLaren's number 2. Exactly. I don't understand the fuss he is makin
243 HB-IWC: This thread is exceeding its critical length. If you feel inclined to continue discussing this subject, please start a second installment. This thread
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