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Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?  
User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

Buy them, take the technology and use it to build their own cars. I'd hate to think what would happen in the U.S. once walmart cars start showing up.. Hope it's not true.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bre...y-buy-gm-and-chrysler/#more-156041

[Edited 2008-11-18 19:42:22]

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

I seriously hope its not true. I don't think the govt. is stupid enough to let a foreign company take control of such a big part of its economy (earlier CNN reported that there were 1.7 million jobs directly / indirectly tied to the Big Three). On top of that, the Walmart Car would be everyone's nightmere, especially when it comes to safety and reliability.


Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9209 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

I heard that Nissan might be interested in Chrysler, or maybe it was written that Nissan would be a much better fit for Chrysler... I guess this might work...

Nissan is in a partnership with Chrysler; SAIC is in one with GM...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2512 times:



Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 1):
On top of that, the Walmart Car would be everyone's nightmere

A Wal Mart car would be great! Think about it, everytime you open the door, you could have a Wal Mart greeter's voice say "Welcome!" .... Big grin



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Excellent idea.

I dont care if its China or Russia or Zimbabwe. If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.
And you never know maybe foreign investors will have a better chance of running the companies then we have managed all these decades.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2448 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
And you never know maybe foreign investors will have a better chance of running the companies then we have managed all these decades.

It's hard to believe they could do any worse. That industry has been run into the ground. It would be a mercy if it just died and let something new, with no baggage, spring up in its place.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5517 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2433 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
I dont care if its China or Russia or Zimbabwe. If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.

It's not a bad idea. Why throw so much money at them to keep them on their feet, so they can produce cars that no one can afford?


User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2381 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

I dont care if its China or Russia or Zimbabwe. If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.

Second that. Cue the protectionist rants any moment now....



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

I don't think any politican would allow ownership of any of the 'big 3' to go to a China based company. There are too many national security issues, the profits would be exported and we have a enough issues with China today.

User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Then I will be purchasing a Ford-built vehicle from now on if that's the case!


Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2316 times:
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Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 1):
the Walmart Car would be everyone's nightmere, especially when it comes to safety and reliability.

The Chinese are capable of producing highly reliable equipment. How many Chinese manufactured components are in critical systems and products that you depend on everyday?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineJohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2310 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
And you never know maybe foreign investors will have a better chance of running the companies then we have managed all these decades.

I'd think it would be great. Instead of top executives getting bonuses for running the companies into the ground, they commit assisted suicide, just like the Chinese execs did in the lead paint fiasco. Wink


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6814 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2307 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):
There are too many national security issues

Such as?

I don't think people understand how deep China is in the US' interests already.

They’re sitting on 2 trillion in greenbacks, we’ve allowed them to take our entire manufacturing sector as it is, so why not allow them to be saddled with the albatross of the Big Three…better than the taxpayers.

China is a monster—a dragon that is consuming everything in sight. The US auto companies cannot stand up to them right now, they just cannot and will not be able to hold their own. The only option is to file BK, restructure and be able to compete then with a rational cost model. Otherwise, they’re hosed one way or another. The people who are surprised by this are naïve.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6103 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2279 times:
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Quoting Continental (Reply 6):
so they can produce cars that no one can afford?

I can afford one and so can everyone else I know.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.

Should we let China, Russia or any other country buy our banks too?

A 25 Billion loan is a a lot better deal than a 700 billion bailout. Chrysler paid the last loan back early and with interest. That was a god deal as far as tax payers were concerned. It worked once why not try it again.

A lot of people didn't want the governmnet to take over railroad operations in the northeast in the 1970s. Penn Central collapsed in 1976(bad merger to start with). The government formed Consolidated Rail (ConRail) and by 1987 the company was able to be sold on the open market. Tean years after that the company was sucessful enough to be fought over by CSX and Norfolk Southern. A government bailout worked then too. Both the ConRail deal and the first Chrylser deal worked out great for the US economy and US taxpayers.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2270 times:
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Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13):
Should we let China, Russia or any other country buy our banks too?

Dont the Saudis practically own Citibank?

Who own thins now a days? Everyone does! from people trading in their pajamas from a basement in Australia, to the country of United Arab Emirates investments in overseas private companies.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6103 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2261 times:
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Quoting Mt99 (Reply 14):
Who own thins now a days? Everyone does! from people trading in their pajamas from a basement in Australia, to the country of United Arab Emirates investments in overseas private companies.

So it doesn't matter where the money goes? Keep Amercian money in the USA when at all possible. I doubt you understand that considering you claim to live in the United States, but don't bother claiming the USA as your country.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2248 times:
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Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):
Keep Amercian money in the USA when at all possible.

That train has sailed(*) dude. Welcome to Globalization You might not agree with it, but there is no turning back.

(*) Austin Power Reference

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):
claim to live in the United States,

I claim to live in inhabited island close to Antarctica...

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):

So it doesn't matter where the money goes?

Money should go to the most efficient place.. and by the looks of it GM/Ford are not that place

[Edited 2008-11-19 08:53:47]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2227 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13):
Should we let China, Russia or any other country buy our banks too?

Absolutely, and any other things they wish to invest in. Their money is as green as anyone's.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):
o it doesn't matter where the money goes? Keep Amercian money in the USA when at all possible.

Listen we live in a globalized world. US companies own many trillions in overseas assets, so its only right foreign entities to invest or acquire US companies or other holdings as well.

Limiting foreign ownership stifles access to capital for US business and acts as a major handicap for them. There is only an infinite number of investors or business ideas in the US.

For me the "Made in the USA" gaga label or being 100% domestically owned is not a sign or something good -- but something I cringe at. While we may hold ourselves in high esteem, America far from being the only country on the planet that knows how to successfully design, build and market a widget, or have the ability to own and manage large enterprises.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6103 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2173 times:
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Quoting Mt99 (Reply 16):
I claim to live in inhabited island close to Antarctica...

No you don't. You claim your location has ORD. Last time I was there it was in Illinois.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 16):
That train has sailed(*) dude. Welcome to Globalization You might not agree with it, but there is no turning back.

10 years ago we were all told how great globalization was. Turns out it sucks for the average worker. Go ask some people that worked in manufacturing in the USA and Western Europe and you you can see that globalization doesn't help the average Joe.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
For me the "Made in the USA" gaga label or being 100% domestically owned is not a sign or something good -- but something I cringe at.

Go ahead and send every job that can be done cheaper someplace else to outside our country. What happens to all the people that still live here? We were told that we could move our econmy into a service economy. Guess what those jobs can go away too. There are close to 300,000,000 people in our country and they need good jobs in order to buy all the stuff that people claim can be made cheaper someplace else.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
For me the "Made in the USA" gaga label or being 100% domestically owned is not a sign or something good -- but something I cringe at

What about a product that is made in Germany, or England (are there any left?), or Japan. Are those products somehow inferior becuase they are made by a company owned by people in that country.

There are a lot of people in this world that hate their country but won't admit it. The way that manufacturing jobs have left the USA and Western Europe is a testament to government regulations and the spirit of the elitist left. The grass is always greener on the other side. When government regulates business into extinction in one country it just goes to another. How many US and European firms build stuff in China so they don't have to deal with envirmental issues. A lot of people think it is all labor costs and unions that have driven jobs away. The left's stupid enviromental policies have driven just as many, if not more, jobs away.

Today it seems that you want manufacturing growth in your country just get rid of unions, labor law, and envirmental laws and you will be making money hand over fist.

This summer I was in the UK and I talked with several ex coal miners who were out of work. because of stupid regulations in their country. They sounded just like the unemplyed coal miners I know in Southern Illinois.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2162 times:
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Quoting Falstaff (Reply 18):

10 years ago we were all told how great globalization was. Turns out it sucks for the average worker. Go ask some people that worked in manufacturing in the USA and Western Europe and you you can see that globalization doesn't help the average Joe.

It helps the average Jose though. And, do you enjoy the fruits of cheap Chinese and Mexican labor?

Globalization would have not hurt Average Joe if the American companies he worked for would have been able to be more efficient...

Just how Sri Lanka cannot compete with the US aircraft industry, the US cannot compete with Sri Lankan sock and underwear manufacturing. On what level do you want the US to compete? On aircraft or on socks?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 18):
What happens to all the people that still live here?

They get their local Wal-Mart filled with more and more crap. Enjoy!

[Edited 2008-11-19 11:22:23]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2159 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
I heard that Nissan might be interested in Chrysler, or maybe it was written that Nissan would be a much better fit for Chrysler... I guess this might work...

The word is that the arrangement Chrysler and Nissan have would morph into Chrysler being part of the Renault-Nissan alliance (The same alliance Kirk Kekorkian tried to get GM to join two years ago.). Nissan is already slated to build a small Dodge (either in Japan or China) based off the Renault Clio/Nissan Cube. Dodge is getting ready to sell a restyled version of the Nissan Versa in several South American countries as the Dodge Trazo (replacing the Hyundai-built Nissan Atoz). There's also been rumors of Chrysler teaming up with Fiat on a vehicle based off of the Fiat 500.

What about VW as a potential investor in Chrysler? Chrysler currently builds the VW Routan, which is a minivan sold in the US and Canada (and soon Mexico). It's essentially a Chrysler Town and Country/Dodge Caravan with some VW styling tweaks and a few other VW elements.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6103 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2151 times:
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Quoting Mt99 (Reply 19):
And, do you enjoy the fruits of cheap Chinese and Mexican labor?

I avoid them at all costs. I only buy a non US or European made product when there is non alternative sold. I also don't mind products from Japan. However so many of trusted brands from Japan are now made in China.

The community where I live and work has not seen the benefits of globalization. We still have to live here.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 19):
They get their local Wal-Mart filled with more and more crap

Eventually people will only be able to work at Wal-Mart and will not be able to afford the products sold there or be able to live in the communities where they work.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2140 times:
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Quoting Falstaff (Reply 21):
I only buy a non US or European made product when there is non alternative sold. I also don't mind products from Japan.

How far do you go? I mean my GE Dryer may have components from Mexico and China, although it says "Made in USA"..



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6103 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2133 times:
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Quoting Mt99 (Reply 22):
How far do you go? I mean my GE Dryer may have components from Mexico and China, although it says "Made in USA"..

I go as far final assembly. I would rather spend my money on products made in the USA by US companies, but I am satisfied with US made items built by non US companies. I want jobs and employment for my community and communities like mine. I own a variety of products (Honda lawn mower, Sony TV, SK/Facom tools, etc) made in the USA, but not made by US firms.

Sure these items may be able to be made cheaper someplace else, but if there is not enough people left with high paying jobs who will buy those products? If people all have low end jobs they will not buy Sony TV (some models are still made in the USA) or a Honda lawn mower. They will buy a low end brand that they can afford on their Wal-Mart salary.

What is Canada's position on an auto bailout? Canada helped the bail out Chrysler in 1979. The Canadian (especially Ontario0 has a lot to loose with a failure in the American auto industry. People like to knock the UAW, but the CAW is strong too. Everyone wants to kick around the Americans, but the Canadians are in this auto mess too and I don't hear people bashing them. I think that a lot of this negitive response to the auto bailout is just hating on the USA, and oddly this time most of it is coming from within out own country. How come I don't hear anyone bashing on Canada or the CAW?

Some people say well let the companies like Honda & Toyota come in and build cars. If a US auto firm shut down thos4e firms couldn't step in and ramp up production right away. It would take time.

Another thing to thing about. 50 years ago nobody would ever have though GM would be on the risk of bankruptcy. Who knows what Toyota's position might be in 50 years. What if they were to fail? Sure that isn't happening now, but what if? Nothing lasts forever. Who builds are vehicles then? Also a lot of US transplant builders buy from the same suppliers that US companies do. It isn't 1960 anymore where everything on a car is built by one company. If a company loses business from GM or whoever they may become insolvant and then can nolonger supply the foriegn builders. Non US owned production would come up, but it would take some time and by that time those companies would already be gone and things would have start all over again. All the supplier jobs would leave the US and so would the transplant plants because they wouldn't want the hassle of getting parts from one end of the earth to the other. Without a US auto industry there would be no reason to build cars here because everything would be cheaper to make someplace else.

[Edited 2008-11-19 12:17:59]


My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2109 times:
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Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
made in the USA, but not made by US firms.

I know Union Members who would not agree with you there.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
Nothing lasts forever.

Like the US economic power in the world..

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
Who builds are vehicles then?

India, China. Who builds computers now? Who used to build computers 20 years ago?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
Sure these items may be able to be made cheaper someplace else, but if there is not enough people left with high paying jobs who will buy those products?

Back to my example. Sock do not offer high paying jobs..

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
Also a lot of US transplant builders buy from the same suppliers that US companies do.

I am not sure how accurate your statement is. But in any case the way they buy is completely different. The Japanese supply chain is vastly different than US Auto makers.

How come Toyota brings plant to the US while GM send plants to Mexico?



Step into my office, baby
25 LAXintl : Well by limiting yourself to only Made in the USA products, you are not only limiting the choices available to you, but also potentialy settle for th
26 LTU932 : I agree, as long as it's private investors and not something that is public and dependent on tax payer's money. Problem is that there will be people
27 Falstaff : I know a lot of union members who would also disagree with me, but when I go tho their homes I see a lot of cheap junk made in China. They seem to th
28 Post contains links VonRichtofen : God I hope we don't see Chinese cars here http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs-AmaS7dis
29 Mt99 : Things will move down a "step". Costa Rica now has sizable Intel chip plant....
30 Flighty : Of course. That is the paradox of unions. Everybody wants the union wage premium for themselves. But what if your union headquarters staff wants to f
31 LTU932 : Too late. The Chinese have already invaded the Costa Rican, and possibly also Central American market with their rolling deathtraps, and it's only a
32 Falstaff : Good question.... I know the staff of my union are in the union, but what about with other unions? A lot of companies will pay union wages to keep un
33 Par13del : Ok, so lets say China buy's GM, what then? 1. China has a massive steel industry which is cheaper than its US counter part, so major assembly has to m
34 JBo : For some reason, the thought of Renault being involved with Chrysler brings flashbacks of AMC. Speaking of which, I wonder how feasible it would be t
35 Falstaff : Those cars sucked.... Too bad AMC couldn't hang on a few more years until the SUV and all wheel drive car fad kicked into high gear. I couldn't agree
36 FruteBrute : So why is ok for the Germans to own Chrysler when they did? Why is ok for GM to own Saab, and recently a large chunk of Fiat, along with major shareh
37 Ryanair!!! : The CHinese automotive industry is a burgeoning one alhtough none of their cars can pass the safety tests yet for export into the US. But it would not
38 Par13del : Agreed, and where is the industrial capacity of the UK now, how has these type of activity benefited the UK economy in the long and short run? Take a
39 T prop : The Germans did a great job with Chrysler didn't they? .
40 Beaucaire : A German entrepreneur wanted to buy Opel from GM-but the Americans refused. He wants to convert Opel into a "green" car manufacturer,re-modelling the
41 LTU932 : I tend to think the other way around: Chrysler did more damage to Daimler-Benz than Daimler ever did to Chrysler. From my (probably uneducated) persp
42 Post contains links PPVRA : Heard that a million times. But from U.S. companies sending profits back to the U.S. from Brazil, instead. If everyone though that way the world woul
43 PPVRA : They are still selling those cars. Without looking up more info, It's probably the one area that they can still make money. At least when in comes to
44 T prop : IMO, it was Daimler that was running the show. Chrysler president Jim Holden was replaced by Dieter Zetsche and other top executives in the US were r
45 LTU932 : I don't fully know the details, so please take what I said with a barrel of salt or two. The point is that even during the existence of DaimlerChrysl
46 Pyrex : Britain tried to hold on to their car industry as long as possible, as you seem to suggest. The result was government ownership oh British Leyland an
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