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Can A Person In The U.S. Be A "Federal Citizen"?  
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3974 posts, RR: 28
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3340 times:

Warning: this thread is a semi-serious question, semi-rant. I ask my U.S. friends not to take it as a criticism but as a suggestion for improvement.

Since I have arrived in the U.S. from Europe, some 16 months ago, there is one thing that has confused me a lot - just how difficult it is for someone to be internally mobile in this country. I would have thought that being one country (as opposed to Europe, which is several) it would be much easier to move from one location to the other or even live/work in multiple at the same time, but that does not appear to be the case. My friends that moved states to come to Boston had to go through all the pain to change things that should inherently be borderless between states, such as telephones, bank accounts and drivers licenses, having even more trouble than me, a foreign national. Not to mention the mess it is to file several tax returns for different states in the same year.

Case in point: today I went out for dinner with some friends to Dorchester (yeah, yeah, I know, crappy area, but my Vietnamese friend wanted to show us what good Vietnamese food looked like). On the way back from the restaurant my friend's boyfriend runs over a red light in a rental car and we get pulled over by cops. Since his driver's license was expired he got arrested and taken into the police station (at one point there were three cop cars on us - you would have thought that Dorchester police had something better to do like, oh, I don't know, stop all the shootings and stabbings going on every day there).
The thing with him is, he lives in California (where he has his house and car) and is a consultant, which means he is on the road pretty much every single week, and has spent the last month or so in Denver. Whenever he happens to be in California, the DMV closes on Fridays due to budget cuts so he cannot get his license renewed. However, on the weekends he is given a flight so he usually flies out to Boston to spend it with his girlfriend. Because of this fact, the (really bad-mannered) police officer that arrested him told him "I would have arrested you anyway even if your drivers license wasn't expired because you are in Boston for more than a month and so you need a Massachussets drivers license" (I would like to know what the California DMV has to say about that).

Now, I understand why the laws governing the power of the states were written as they were written originally, when people were just not mobile and information did not travel at the speed of light. I also understand why local governments want to keep the massive inefficiencies in the system (multiplying organisms that really need not be multiplied to foster local jobs for public workers, accountants, lawyers, etc.). However, times have changed, and people no longer live in the 18th century, where they grew up, worked and died within 50 miles of their birthplace. In a lot of cases they can and do live and work in multiple places at the same time, or at least during the year, depending on the definitions of residency of different states. In those cases, is it possible for a U.S. resident, of his own volution, to ask to become a federal citizen and thus only have to file a single tax claim (even if on a higher tax bracket), one set of documentation, one bank account, etc.? If not, has anything like this ever been proposed?


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3316 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
I would like to know what the California DMV has to say about that).

Sounds kind of rough. I know I have driven here in Michigan on and off the past 4 years with my California drivers license and my California plates on my Jeep. I havent had a single problem. Rough to hear.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):

Since I have arrived in the U.S. from Europe, some 16 months ago, there is one thing that has confused me a lot - just how difficult it is for someone to be internally mobile in this country.

It's not at all difficult. If you want to go somewhere, you get in a car, bus, train, airplane and go.

Hitchhiking and cycling seem to work too.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
In those cases, is it possible for a U.S. resident, of his own volution, to ask to become a federal citizen and thus only have to file a single tax claim (even if on a higher tax bracket), one set of documentation, one bank account, etc.?

Nope. In the U.S. you are a citizen of the state and the federal government. Not one or the other, but both. The closest thing he could do would be to claim D.C. as his place of residence.

Tell your friend that he isn't as important as he thinks he is, and he can follow the rules like everyone else. If he still wants to claim California as his state of residence, he could have renewed his DL online from Timbuktu.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
Now, I understand why the laws governing the power of the states were written as they were written originally, when people were just not mobile and information did not travel at the speed of light.

The federal structure was not chosen due to the speed of society in the 18th century. It was chosen to give local communities more direct control of their government as opposed to an overarching national government with homogeneous policies from sea to shining sea. The former structure allows individual states to tailor their services and laws to the needs and wants of their population and try things a little more bold than the national government would be willing to try..

[Edited 2008-11-29 21:58:23]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25045 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3276 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
such as telephones



Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
bank accounts



Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
and drivers licenses



Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
file several tax returns for different states in the same year

Would you not have to deal with all these in the EU also?

Having lived in Belgium, Sweden, Spain I had to start over pretty much in each place as well.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
runs over a red light in a rental car and we get pulled over by cops. Since his driver's license was expired he got arrested

How did he get a rental car with an expired license? This is normaly one of the most basic things rental agencies verify.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
(I would like to know what the California DMV has to say about that

Each State is free to make it laws. In California if you are in the State for more then 10 days technically you need to reregister your car and get a license.

Off course this is not enforced all the time, however there are people that abuse this by keeping vehicles registered in lower cost neighboor states like Nevada, Arizona, and Oregon or maintain out of state licenses.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3974 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3267 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):

Since I have arrived in the U.S. from Europe, some 16 months ago, there is one thing that has confused me a lot - just how difficult it is for someone to be internally mobile in this country.

It's not at all difficult. If you want to go somewhere, you get in a car, bus, train, airplane and go.

Hitchhiking and cycling seem to work too.

Transportation wasn't exactly what I was referring to but thanks anyway...  Yeah sure

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
The closest thing he could do would be to claim D.C. as his place of residence.

But that wouldn't really change anything, as other states could still demand him to become a citizen of theirs, couldn't they? BTW, how does it work for federal workers, military personnel, etc.? Does someone in, say, the FBI office in Salt Lake City have to pay Utah state taxes (assuming they exist)?

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
If he still wants to claim California as his state of residence, he could have renewed his DL online from Timbuktu.

Actually, it is not that simple. California only allows you to do that under certain conditions ( http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm , down the page), which did not apply to him. In any case, that does not invalidate the fact that, regardless of his residency status in California, Massachussets still claims he is a resident of MA and thus wants him to have a driver license there (even though he doesn't have a car in the state).


Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
It was chosen to give local communities more direct control of their government as opposed to an overarching national government with homogeneous policies from sea to shining sea.

That does not invalidate my point. In those times people had their allegiances to their colonies, rather than a country, because a) that country did not even still exist and b) even if it did it was so far removed from the people that they naturally mistrusted it. Over time those allegiances shifted and I would venture to say that most people identify themselves as Americans first and citizens of a specific state second (if at all) and not the other way around.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

It sounds like you and your friend have quite a misunderstanding with how the US operates on both a federal and state level.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
such as telephones, bank accounts and drivers licenses,

What other choice to you have when you live in a region where you use ATT for phone and Wells Fargo for banking and move to another region where neither exist? And drivers licenses are issued by the state in which you reside. As DfwRevolution pointed out, not only are you a resident of the US, but you are a resident of whichever state you live.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
Not to mention the mess it is to file several tax returns for different states in the same year.

It's called state income tax. Most states have it. When you earn money in a state, you pay tax on it. This is on top of federal income taxes. Just the way it is.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
Because of this fact, the (really bad-mannered) police officer that arrested him told him "I would have arrested you anyway even if your drivers license wasn't expired because you are in Boston for more than a month and so you need a Massachussets drivers license" (I would like to know what the California DMV has to say about that).

First off, your friend was breaking the law plain and simple. If the cop had a legal right to arrest him, then he has NO leg to stand on. Dick cop or not. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse, I think most of us know that. It is SO easy to renew a CA driver license that an arrest might in fact serve him well for being so ignorant. Second, CA DMV has no real say or authority over Boston and/or MS legal matters.

I'm sorry for coming off as so condescending, but these matters you and your friend bring to the table are quite simple with regards to how the US operates. Please don't take any hard feelings to this. :D

[Edited 2008-11-29 22:23:24]


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3974 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3253 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Would you not have to deal with all these in the EU also?

Having lived in Belgium, Sweden, Spain I had to start over pretty much in each place as well.

Of course you would (not sure about the drivers license, but the rest yes) but they are different countries with different languages and different legacies. Fact is, though, there really isn't a cell-phone carrier with truly European coverage (it is mostly national based), and the same could be said about bank branches, so the point is you would have to deal with it not necessarily because of regulation (which also interferes, but is dwindling down) but because of the commercial nature of the market (which I hope becomes more integrated).

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
How did he get a rental car with an expired license? This is normaly one of the most basic things rental agencies verify.

Actually the car was rented by his girlfriend. In any case, he has been renting cars for work for the past weeks without any problem so maybe they just don't care anymore (since the consequences don't fall on them).

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
by keeping vehicles registered in lower cost neighboor states

That is another thing. If I am running a trucking company I can gain a big advantage for having my trucks registered in a given state, but not so for aircrafts, because they are regulated federally. Yet both are competing modes of transportation for certain types of goods. Doesn't this strike anyone as odd?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3245 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 6):

Actually the car was rented by his girlfriend.

Which means he was not an authorized driver since his license was not verified.



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25045 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3243 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 6):
Doesn't this strike anyone as odd?

No -

Its OK to have a trucking company and do national business. However your drivers and much of your vehicle fleet would be registered where they primarily do business.

See these things are regulated indirectly and directly in a host of way. Whether directly thru laws like CA that states if you are the state for more then 10 days you must register locally to insurance companies matching equipment and drivers, to drivers trying to get jobs - for instance the CA DMV wont give you background checks on non CA drivers, to the need to secure local delivery or parking permits which generally wont be issued permanently for out of state drivers or vehicles.

Ultimately the Federal system provides very much local State control, which frankly I can see could be a pain in a way, but great in others as laws can be adjusted to fit local conditions and desires.



And as far as the banks, phones, and such, just like Europe much of this is regionalised in the US with lots of local vendors, however with all the merger mania in recent years truly national companies are starting to become a more common reality.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3974 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3229 times:



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
What other choice to you have when you live in a region where you use ATT for phone and Wells Fargo for banking and move to another region where neither exist?

Actually I was talking about Verizon or Bank of America, companies that are present (almost) nationwide. Your cellphone is always the same regardless of where you are and still you have to change your account details, different taxes, etc. Likewise, with my Bank of America account, they always ask me at the counter whether it is out of state or not.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
And drivers licenses are issued by the state in which you reside

But the question is, what if defining your state of residence isn't that simple? If your house is in one place, you work in another and you spend your weekends in another then which one prevails? What if the local state laws conflict with one another, are you a resident in all three? In which one do you vote?

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
It's called state income tax. Most states have it. When you earn money in a state, you pay tax on it. This is on top of federal income taxes. Just the way it is.

I completely understand that you need to pay taxes wherever you work (trust me, I even saw city income taxes getting deducted from my paycheck this summer...). The thing is, with modern technology there is no reason why I should not be able to submit one income tax FORM and have the IRS send me my total bill and divide the money among the states the way they see fit (a street fight would be a good option - the Governator would solve California's budget crisis in no-time  Smile ).

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
First off, your friend was breaking the law plain and simple.

I was not disputing that (nor does he intend to dispute that in court). I have actually been wanting to ask this question for a long time, his case just showed me an example of how difficult it can be to ascertain state residency.

Still, handcuffing and arresting him, and involving three squad cars in a high-crime area, seems a bit overkill to me.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
Second, CA DMV has no real say or authority over Boston and/or MS legal matters.

Another question, if Boston police is so adamant he is a MA resident for spending his weekends there. What if he changes his driver's license to a MA one? Will he still be able to have a CA license or you cannot have multiple IDs? If not, will he be forced to sell his car, since supposedly the CA DMV will require a state driver's license to allow a car to be registered there?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
truly national companies are starting to become a more common reality.

And that is a great thing for consumers but if they are hampered by ridiculous laws that are designed to limit competition and protect local monopolies then what is the point?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25045 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3217 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
Will he still be able to have a CA license or you cannot have multiple IDs?

No. In past years people used to be able to trick the system and maintain out of state licenses to conceal out-of-state convictions and traffic tickets, but now that State systems are more interlinked they work hard to catch such people.
Here in CA the DMV will take your old license away from you when they issue a CA one.

Just like for the IRS - you can only have a single tax home, and only supposed to have a single license.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
And that is a great thing for consumers but if they are hampered by ridiculous laws that are designed to limit competition and protect local monopolies then what is the point?

What ridiculous laws are those  Confused
There are dozens of banks, and handful of phone companies in most markets.

In some ways I'm not sure national companies frankly are the best path anyhow.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9897 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3215 times:
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Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
My friends that moved states to come to Boston had to go through all the pain to change things that should inherently be borderless between states, such as telephones, bank accounts and drivers licenses, having even more trouble than me, a foreign national. Not to mention the mess it is to file several tax returns for different states in the same year.

I moved from Massachusetts to California. It was not a pain in the ass. Getting a new license and registration took me all of about an hour - I did it during lunch, and went right back to work.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
Dorchester (yeah, yeah, I know, crappy area, but my Vietnamese friend wanted to show us what good Vietnamese food looked like).

Hey, I hear it's getting better, so I hear. Friend of mine just bought a condo in Dorchester, and I've heard it's in a pretty nice area.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
(I would like to know what the California DMV has to say about that).

California has similar regulation. I had to change my license within (I believe) a month of moving here.

Of course, there's nothing really to prove how long you've been here (especially since I was just staying with friends for the first couple weeks I was here).

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
Actually I was talking about Verizon or Bank of America, companies that are present (almost) nationwide. Your cellphone is always the same regardless of where you are and still you have to change your account details, different taxes, etc. Likewise, with my Bank of America account, they always ask me at the counter whether it is out of state or not.

Coincidentally, I have both a Verizon cell phone, and a Bank of America bank account. I didn't have to do anything to either of them (aside from changing my billing address - which I did online for both of them - and for my credit card and Fidelity account). Yes, BoA asks me in what state my account is located. I simply reply "Massachusetts" and then we proceed as normal.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Sounds kind of rough. I know I have driven here in Michigan on and off the past 4 years with my California drivers license and my California plates on my Jeep. I havent had a single problem. Rough to hear.


You're a student, though, correct? I lived in California for 4 years, as a student, with a MA drivers license. That's a different situation.

[Edited 2008-11-29 23:52:16]


(edited cause I suck)

[Edited 2008-11-29 23:53:03]


"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3974 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Just like for the IRS - you can only have a single tax home, and only supposed to have a single license.

Ok, I understand that and it makes perfect sense, but which one will that be? And what are the implications if a person owns cars in multiple states? I was under the impression most states only allow you to register a car if the driver's license is from within the state.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
What ridiculous laws are those

Insurance, for once, is one. It is regulated by the states even though by definition it is a business without a physical location, which means until very recently there were only three companies offering car insurance in MA (what a cozy arrangment that was for them, I'm sure). Cambridge is still one of the cities in the entire country with the highest average premiums despite the low crime rate and the absence of powerful/flashy cars (I know drivers around here are massholes, but come on...).

[Edited 2008-11-29 23:50:07]


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3196 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
The thing with him is, he lives in California (where he has his house and car) and is a consultant, which means he is on the road pretty much every single week, and has spent the last month or so in Denver. Whenever he happens to be in California, the DMV closes on Fridays due to budget cuts so he cannot get his license renewed.

Not an excuse. If he wants to excercise his driving priviledges, he needs to keep his license current.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
I would have arrested you anyway even if your drivers license wasn't expired because you are in Boston for more than a month and so you need a Massachussets drivers license" (I would like to know what the California DMV has to say about that).

They can't say anything. California has no jurisdiction over Massachusettes, or any other state.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
Still, handcuffing and arresting him, and involving three squad cars in a high-crime area, seems a bit overkill to me.

Like you said, it's a high crime area. Three people, in a rented car, with a driver who has an expired license in a HIGH CRIME area would certainly make me a bit uneasy.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25045 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3184 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 12):
Insurance, for once, is one. It is regulated by the states

Yup, and one I am quite happy is regulated by States.

Here in LA I have well over a dozen companies to choose between to protect my car or home.

Matter of fact our state insurance commission has sued companies multiple times to have rates reduced, or services increased.
Worked quite well here - suggest MA residents work on electing people, or change the laws directly if things are as bad as you state.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3163 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
in California, the DMV closes on Fridays due to budget cuts

Actually I think they shortened the state work week as an environmental measure.

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
However, on the weekends he is given a flight so he usually flies out to Boston to spend it with his girlfriend.

That's his choice. He should have made one less trip to visit his girlfriend so that he could be responsible and take care of his obligations.

You don't have to change bank accounts when you move I didn't I have the same bank I had in Virginia and FL even though they don't have branches in UT. I do direct deposit and bank online.

It's called the United states for a reason. The founding fathers wanted grant states a fair amount of autonomy and limit federal power.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3122 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
My friends that moved states to come to Boston had to go through all the pain to change things that should inherently be borderless between states, such as telephones, bank accounts and drivers licenses, having even more trouble than me, a foreign national.

-
Switzerland has practically the same constitution as the USA, whenever being a bit ......... smaller. This means that if a foreigner wants to become Swiss citizen he has to stay in the same Canton, even the same village or town, as you become citizen of the Canton and NOT of the union. And education, police, traffic, finance, taxes are Cantonal matters and NOT a matter of the union. If you pay your taxes, you pay them to the Canton and NOT to the union. Also quite many laws differ from Canton to Canton. That applies to ownership laws, opening hours of shops, laws about what can be sold how etc. And while most Cantons are German speaking, some are bi-lingual (Berne+Fribourg/Freiburg+Valais/Wallis = German+French, one is tri-lingual (Graubünden/Grisons = German/Romansh/Italian) and four are French speaking. It is only the union which is quadro-lingual. So that if you have family and move from Luzern to Lugano (180km) the schools will no longer be German language but Italian language, and your car needs a new number very soon, and a new tax declaration will be due shortly.
-
It is similar in other federalist countries like Austria, Germany, Canada, Australia, India .
-
This is what federalism is all about. The power is to be with the states and not with the union.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3123 times:



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
I know I have driven here in Michigan on and off the past 4 years with my California drivers license and my California plates on my Jeep. I havent had a single problem.

-
Not yet, Sir, not yet !  wave 
-


User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3112 times:



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 11):
You're a student, though, correct? I lived in California for 4 years, as a student, with a MA drivers license. That's a different situation.

Oh okay. Gotcha. How do they know your a student? My car was not regestered with insurance in Michigan, only California.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3111 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
In California if you are in the State for more then 10 days technically you need to reregister your car and get a license.

-
You of course can do some plays. I knew a family, part of whom lived in Zurich, the other part in Athens. Both cars were registered in Zurich. Each half year, the one in Athens was driven up to Zurich, and the one in Zurich down to Athens. And so, the laws of both sides were served.
-

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Does someone in, say, the FBI office in Salt Lake City have to pay Utah state taxes (assuming they exist)?

-
In Switzerland, if you are a so-called "independent", your taxes are shared by the place of residence and the place of business. However, people living in the Cantons of Schaffhausen, Thurgau, St. Gallen, Schwyz, and working as employees in the Canton of Zurich pay their taxes where they live. I therefore expect somebody working in whatever office in Salt Lake City to pay Utah state taxes. An uncle of me who had lived some years in Louisiana but later on lived right across the border in Texas, used his right to be served in the State-Hospital of Shreveport when necessary which according to him not only was cheaper but even better. While Texas is rightwing-capitalist, Louisiana is almost Socialist by US-standards.
-


User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3106 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 17):
Not yet, Sir, not yet !

So then are you planning on pulling me over? Haha



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3100 times:



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 20):
pulling me over

-
Be aware of the fact that we on here have some career-hungry US law-enforcers ! One of them possibly already is driving around in your area to trace your car down and report it to his authority !  Wink  wave 


User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2044 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3085 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Actually, it is not that simple. California only allows you to do that under certain conditions ( http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm , down the page), which did not apply to him.



Quote:
How to renew your driver license by mail

You may be eligible to renew your license by mail if you can answer No to all of the following questions:

* Does your driver license expire more than 60 days from today’s date?
* Will you be 70 years of age or older when your current driver license expires?
* Are you currently on any type of driving probation or suspension?
* Did you violate a written promise to appear in court within the last two years?
* Have you already received two consecutive five year extensions by mail?
* Do you have a driver license from more than one state or jurisdiction?

I take it he left it too late?



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3058 times:



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Actually, it is not that simple. California only allows you to do that under certain conditions ( http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm , down the page), which did not apply to him. In any case, that does not invalidate the fact that, regardless of his residency status in California, Massachussets still claims he is a resident of MA and thus wants him to have a driver license there (even though he doesn't have a car in the state).

So how does any of this excuse the fact that he ignored his most basic civic duties? If your friend couldn't take one weekday away from his work or getting nookie to square away his life, it sounds like he had it coming.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
That does not invalidate my point. In those times people had their allegiances to their colonies, rather than a country, because a) that country did not even still exist and b) even if it did it was so far removed from the people that they naturally mistrusted it. Over time those allegiances shifted and I would venture to say that most people identify themselves as Americans first and citizens of a specific state second (if at all) and not the other way around.

Yes, it does invalidate your point! Since you are the confused outsider looking in, perhaps you should stop lecturing me on why you think we have a federal government. It had nothing to do with the speed of society. It had nothing to do with allegiances. The federal system was chosen to divide power, give local control to the people, and ultimately protect against tyranny. No matter how much times have changed, that hasn't and I hope it never does. Consolidating everything at the national level for the sake of convenience would destroy one of the best democratic measures this world has ever seen.

To this day (especially this day), different parts of the country want different services from their government. If a visual aide would help, look at the electoral map from 2008. While it only shows the binary red/blue divide, beneath lies the fundamental nature of what different parts of the country want from their government. When one party (which history shows is more often the Democrats) uses the federal government to enforce their policy over the entire nation, you ultimately stick some part of the country under laws or tax policy they don't want. Leave those services to the states, and everyone can have their way. Far more democratic in the end.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3047 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
Hitchhiking

Is illegal.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 14):
or change the laws directly if things are as bad as you state.

I live in MA, and minus some asinine things, its a decent place to live. My one gripe is that the state decides who can sell auto insurance and due to that the rates are sky high. Its only within the last 6 months progressive was allowed to sell here.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 18):
How do they know your a student?

Afaik you can either inform them or just wait until you get stopped and then sort it out.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
25 DfwRevolution : Depends on where you are [/irony]
26 DocLightning : I have a misdemeanor (yes, a CRIME) on my record for driving in California with a Michigan license for more than 10 days. I was fined $10 for it, but
27 Post contains images Cadet57 : And it is illegal in MA. Oh and:
28 ME AVN FAN : - every been to Texas ??
29 ME AVN FAN : - THIS indeed is the reason why quite a number of countries have at least partially copied the constitution of the USA, in order to keep central cont
30 57AZ : Not true. States may also require the registration of aircraft based in their jurisdiction for the purposes of taxation. Arizona residents are requir
31 DfwRevolution : Before saying that I fail for bringing constructed thoughts to the table, maybe you should have done a basic Google search? Hitchhiking is only illeg
32 Post contains links PPVRA : Well, some small states in the north might have run into these problems back then. Then again I don't think there were licences to ride horse buggies
33 QXatFAT : So is this different state by state then? Seems like it. I know that here in Michigan, my buddy and I went to see the new Bond movie last week and he
34 ME AVN FAN : - such things depend on the will of people in different states. In Switzerland right today, the Canton of Zurich and the Canton of St. Gallen voted i
35 PPVRA : Very nice. It's supposed to be that way in the U.S., but seems like people ignore it. There's no clear rule that allows the Federal government to bui
36 Cadet57 : Good lord. Maybe the fact that you f**ed up a emoticon tag led to me posting that . Get over yourself. Why dont you actually take it from someone who
37 57AZ : Nor does the Constitution list education as a fundamental right. Education is one of many matters left to the states. Licenses have only been around
38 Pyrex : Well, if the state of California insists he is a resident of California under their definition and the state of Massachussets insist he is a resident
39 Dougloid : Pyrex, what a lot of people from Europe do not seem to be able to internalize is that the United States is a federation of 50 different small to medi
40 Pyrex : Thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, do you have any idea of what states cooperate the most and what states cooperate the less (or actively go out
41 Lincoln : What would the CA DMV have to say about someone driving in MA? Massachutess (yeah, I butchered the spelling) accepts the CA DL as proof of the privel
42 Dougloid : In my line of work when a statement is called dicta it is a polite way of saying someone's talking out their ass. I've never heard of that until now.
43 Pyrex : Gotcha. I'll keep that in mind for a sticker next time I need to do a powerpoint presentation. Well, I don't think that will be necessary in this cas
44 Dougloid : I can see us yanquis can teach you alls a thing or two about fund raising.
45 57AZ : For the sake of this argument, probably not. They're probably registered in Delaware, as I suspect that US Airways is a Delaware corporation.
46 ME AVN FAN : - In Switzerland, roads of whatever size built by the Cantons are Cantonal roads. Only highways built by the union are regarded as highways. - - In S
47 DfwRevolution : I didn't f** up any emoticon tags. The [/irony] comment was not an attempt at a tag or smilie. It was a joke on a tag, and you failed to pick up on i
48 Lincoln : Ok, reading back through the argument... don't take this as taking sides, but... pet generalization peeve of mine: Are you sure you don't mean "The on
49 Tugger : The base core of your question is valid even if the basis you are using is.... odd. The question you ask on Federal vs State law basically is one tha
50 Pyrex : Perhaps. Although we do have a lot of other ways to make money out of unsuspecting citizens. That would make sense, considering how mobile their asse
51 Dougloid : of course not. I did a divorce for a serviceman in Iraq based in Kansas whose wife was a resident of the Phillipines. I was introduced to the "milita
52 Pyrex : Way back then, a few years after Al Gore invented the interwebs, I started frequenting the IRC rooms (anyone remember those?) and needed a nickname.
53 Dougloid : It seems appropriate. Pyrex is pretty good stuff by the way and I use it ever ychance I get. Any glass that you can bake a pie or bake lasagna in is
54 WunalaYann : Are you related to Robert?
55 PPVRA : Haha, good one! I have heard indeed that you Portuguese have a good sense of humor
56 Post contains links WunalaYann : And guess who made them? http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrex_(marque) You're welcome.
57 Pyrex : They are quite good to keep in the freezer for long periods of time as well. I have tried to tell him that, to see if I could get some of his... hmmm
58 WunalaYann : I know. Considering the Portuguese community is the largest non-French in France, we are all very familiar with common Portuguese names... I was clin
59 LH423 : Long and short of it, as far as I can tell, the cop is wrong. Your friend's domicile is not in Massachusetts and he has not spent more than 30 days (
60 Pyrex : Ok, a brief update on my friend's story: he went to court in Dorchester today, where he stood in line to see the judge behind suspected murderers and
61 DC10extender : Point 1: It is your friends fault, the law is the law. Point 2: 3 cops is an officer safety thing. We care about going home at night, especially if t
62 KaiGywer : Actually trucking companies have apportioned plates where the taxes are split between states it travels in. It gets complicated, so I'll let one of o
63 LH423 : Yes, I should rephrase that. The location of a fixed address where you spend most of your time. A hotel, to my knowledge, cannot be a permanent addre
64 KaiGywer : So they're assholes for doing their job? And what grey area? His license was expired, and he knew and didn't care to renew it..
65 Lincoln : California is already somewhat notorious for billing high-profile high-income people (e.g. sports stars, big name musicians, etc.) for income tax on
66 Tugger : Sorry man. Of course I was speaking of IF someone could be a Federal Citizen. States would demand SOMETHING because other wise they would lose a lot
67 Pyrex : So does, say a player for the Boston Celtics who flies out to California to play the LA Clippers need to pay CA income taxes?
68 MD11Engineer : UPS in Germany have all their trucks registered in the smalltown of Neuss in the state of Northrhine-Westfalia, no matter where they are based. While
69 Lincoln : That's percisely the idea...
70 LAXintl : Not much different then other states. For instance I'm a California resident, but have consistently over the years had NY origin income (NY based cor
71 PPVRA : Oh come on, can't be that bad! I'm yet to meet a single depressed Portuguese. True, but Article 7 gives them that power. The word "education" doesn't
72 ME AVN FAN : Looks as if the Federal and State/Canton constitutions of Switzerland and Germany have virtually the same texts ! Also the Swiss constitution states
73 RFields5421 : A federal citizen - no. But there are ways to minimize one's tax risks and define residency and state of residency and avoid most of the issues you d
74 Pyrex : Interesting. What are some of those options? Is there any state that is particularly lax with its residency requirements?
75 PPVRA : Canada seems to be doing alright.
76 RFields5421 : The first national government of what is now the United States after the Revolutionary War created a much weaker federal government. The individual st
77 ME AVN FAN : - Swiss driving licences are unlimited. I know a gentleman, who as an Italian national who had grown up in Egypt emigrated to Switzerland and made hi
78 PPVRA : Well, all I really know is that the US was a Confederation back then, like Canada still is. Not sure about the details though. .
79 RFields5421 : Under the Articles of Confederation - the 13 states retained their individual and seperate sovereignity. For example - the federal government could no
80 Victrola : What do you do if you are one of those bi coastal people who have houses and cars in both New York and California? What drivers license do you have?
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