Molykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 30 Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4493 times:
The 2009 Car and Driver "10 Best" list is out with the new issue.
Base price must begin below $70k for inclusion.
Any comments? Cars that you think should have made it?
2009 BMW 3-series / M3
Now going on 2 decades on this 10 best list. The car does so much right that the minor shortcomings don't matter. I was glad to see some of the gaudy styling cues of recent 3 sedans disappear for this model year.
I do wish the US was given the 2.0 rather than the 3.0 diesel as I don't think the 3.0d makes much sense for Americans.
2009 Cadillac CTS / CTS-V
Time will tell if the teething problems of the original model have been mostly addressed. I don't care for the styling but I'm glad to see GM making a car (aside from the Corvette) that I might actually buy if it keeps improving.
2009 Chevrolet Corvette
The Vette used to be characterized as "a fantastic bargain, but...". Apart from America's continued difficulties in making an interior I want to spend time in, I think the C6 is now both a "fantastic car" and a "fantastic bargain".
2009 Honda Accord
Little distinguishes one Japanese appliance sedan from another. I would say that Accords seem to handle better than most competitiors.
2009 Honda Fit
Probably a great design but I know little about it and probably won't be shopping for one at any foreseeable point. If I were looking at a small Japanese car I'd probably buy a Corolla.
2009 Infiniti G37
Although I still prefer the BMW, I'd have no problem owning one of these instead. This car probably also has slightly broader market appeal than the 3 series.
2009 Jaguar XF
It seems like a nice enough vehicle but I haven't spent any real time in or around an XF. I feel like any other car would be ridiculed for the number of interior electronic gimmicks but Jaguar gets praised for it? Although a nice car, (I haven't driven it), I don't know if it belongs here. In any case, it's a hell of an improvement on the S-type.
2008 Mazda MX-5 Miata
The S2000 is better in some regards but absolutely does not warrant the price premium. The Miata is easy to buy, easy to live with, and easy to work on (I own a second generation model).
2009 Porsche Boxster and Cayman
Apart from a few styling details, I'd rather have a Cayman than a 911. A part of me thinks the Elise/Exige should occupy this slot on the list but the Cayman probably does offer more for the money.
2009 Volkswagen GTI
Simply not my bag! I guess I admire the mix of performance and practicality but I'd rather have something smaller, simpler, and lighter in the same mold.
Nothing in this category beats the GTI. The Mazda speed 3 comes very close, but the GTI is so much better built. Not that the Mazda is badly built at all, but the difference is significant.
Now of course, if the U.S. had all the great european brands we're missing out on (Renault, Alfa, Peugeot, SEAT, etc) then there would be a lot more worthy contenders in this category.
Molykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 30 Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4449 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1): I would exclude the standard 3 series altogether, except for maybe the 335ci. The M3 though is truly a masterpiece, as always.
I think the 3 has become less driver focused since the E9x but it's still the best car in its niche.
Having said that, I took the new 2009 A4 on the track and was very impressed. Two relatives have the previous chassis (both 2005 models I think). Despite the fact that the new A4 is larger (about the size of a 2000 A6) and heavier (2 of my biggest peeves), this new model felt much better than the A4 it replaced. Sadly, the US won't be getting the manual transmission for a few more months.
If BMW continues on their current path (a bit less driver focused compared to where BMW has historically ranked against the competition), I could see an A4 variant beating it at some point in the future.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4443 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1): Nothing in this category beats the GTI.
Agreed. I have yet to find a car with such an optimum balance of fun, economy, and quality.
You can fling it around on backroads, enjoying a torquey and virtually lag-free turbocharged engine, and still enjoy highway mpg in the mid-thirties.
Fold the back seats down, and you can fit all kinds of things in back.
The traction and stability control are fantastic in the snow and ice.
The suspension is excellent. It rebounds only once over lumps or dips in the pavement, even when approaching the limits. It tracks very straight on the highway.
The interior is identical in quality and feel to that of Audi. As is the drivetrain.
With a few unnecessary (in my opinion) options like nav, leather, and a sunroof, the price of the car approaches USD$30,000. Delete these options, and you can get one for around USD$23,000. Very, very reasonable for a car that is, in many ways, identical to the far more expensive Audi A3.
Flight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3292 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4420 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1): I would exclude the standard 3 series altogether, except for maybe the 335ci.
I disagree. Only a "mis-informed yuppie" would that think only most expensive model (the M3) or the best looking model (the 335i coupe) is worthy of such a title. The fact is, the lesser models also have great handling and ride qualities that are seen in the expensive models, which is what makes this car so great.
By the way, the "ci" designation is no longer used.
Greggarious From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 361 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4324 times:
I kind of disappointed to see that several of the selections overlap each other. The should have chosen between the 3 Series, the CTS, and the G37 rather than put them all in the same group. To a lesser extent, same thing with the Honda Fit and the GTI (they're not entirely in the same category, but close enough). I think perhaps the VW Passat CC should be thrown in there instead of one of the luxury sedans.
StasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3266 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4313 times:
Quoting Molykote (Thread starter): 2009 Porsche Boxster and Cayman
Apart from a few styling details, I'd rather have a Cayman than a 911. A part of me thinks the Elise/Exige should occupy this slot on the list but the Cayman probably does offer more for the money.
I think that the Lotus Exige really is a better vehicle than the Cayman.
Quoting Molykote (Thread starter): 2009 Volkswagen GTI
Simply not my bag! I guess I admire the mix of performance and practicality but I'd rather have something smaller, simpler, and lighter in the same mold.
I would take a Mazda 3 (Mazdaspeed version) over a GTI.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4300 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 6): I would take a Mazda 3 (Mazdaspeed version) over a GTI.
When I drove a non-Mazdaspeed version, I found it to feel much less substantial than the GTI. The GTI doesn't necessarily feel heavier, but it sure feels less buzzy and much more solidly constructed.
The old "door-slam" test comes to mind. Slam the door on the GTI, and it reminds you of an Audi or BMW. Slam the door on the Mazda, and it reminds you of an Escort or an entry-level Hyundai.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4278 times:
StasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3266 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4249 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 8): What do you think? Visually (ie: disregarding the utility of four doors), is it an improvement?
2H4
Put an nice aero kit and more aggressive alloy wheels on it, and I'd buy it. It reminds me for an updated version 90's Civic SI hatchback. And that's a good thing!
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
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