Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies  
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3047 times:

As some of us on the conservative side predicted well before the election, no way was a President Obama going to pull the troops out of Iraq willy nilly or even in 16 months and that as soon as he was elected that tune would change. It has. Also good to see that a soon to be PE Obama is now realizing that people who make over 250K a year provide a lot of jobs in this country and pissing them off is not the way to go about fixing a recession.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081207/pl_politico/16279

"In the wide-ranging appearance, Obama once again gave strong indications that he’s backing off his stance on two key campaign pledges – whether to repeal President George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the rich, and his call for bringing U.S. combat troops home from Iraq in 16 months. On a lighter note, he sketched a vision of an Obama White House alive with cultural and musical events, saying he hoped to include children from local Washington, D.C., schools."

On a lighter not considering that last line, I wonder if he'll invite the infamous Obamabots?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTBq_ybkBmI&feature=related

On a serious note the stage is being set for a big clash between liberals with this line from the interview.

"He told Brokaw that decisions based on where to focus infrastructure improvements would be based on merit, and “not in the old, traditional politics-first way.”

In an unambiguous brush-back to his former colleagues Obama said, “You know, the days of just pork coming out of Congress as a strategy, those days are over.”


I'm as confident that at their first face to face meeting after the inauguration that Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid will set him straight on that matter as I was about his dropping his pledge to immediately remove the troops from Iraq.

109 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3030 times:

He's not going to repeal the Bush Tax cuts, he's simply going to let them expire in 2011. As for Iraq he's not going to bring all the troops home in 16 months but look for about half of the Brigade Combat teams to be withdrawn in the next 16 months. Also as per the new status of forces agreement approved by Iraq US forces will begin to redeploy out of Iraqi cities and onto Enduring facilities, eventually US forces will most likely operate from four enduring bases and the US Embassy compound.

The four enduring facilities will most likely be:

AL Asad (Great location in the Western Desert near the Syrian border, far away from any population centers. Sprawling facility).

Tallil Air Base (Southern Iraq)

Joint Base Balad

Camp Liberty / Cape Victory Baghdad International Airport.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3020 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
He's not going to repeal the Bush Tax cuts, he's simply going to let them expire in 2011.

That's not what he said and I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that sometime in the next two years he will advance at least extending those cuts.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
As for Iraq he's not going to bring all the troops home in 16 months but look for about half of the Brigade Combat teams to be withdrawn in the next 16 months.

That is still a major change to his campaign promise and one that many should have seen coming. It's certainly not going to make the operation pink types happy at all.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

That Obama puts emphasis on the counsel of the military leadership before announcing the exact schedule and modalities is not a sign of weakness.

By the way: I find it interesting (and a pleasant surprise) that Obama will put retired general Shinseki in charge of the Veterans Affairs administration; Shinseki had basically been kicked out of the Pentagon after criticizing Rumsfeld's misguided plans for the execution of the Iraq invasion. Good to see some kind of official acknowledgment and rehabilitiation coming to him.

Plus, of course, a tough job with a lot of responsibilities in these times.

Good luck to him!


User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2901 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):

I suppose you can all it "changing campaign promises". My intuition is simply that he is merely modifying his strategy towards achieving goals for Americans.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
By the way: I find it interesting (and a pleasant surprise) that Obama will put retired general Shinseki in charge of the Veterans Affairs administration; Shinseki had basically been kicked out of the Pentagon after criticizing Rumsfeld's misguided plans for the execution of the Iraq invasion.

I noted that too. Let's hope its another good pick in the long run.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2891 times:



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 4):
Quoting DXing (Thread starter):


I suppose you can all it "changing campaign promises". My intuition is simply that he is merely modifying his strategy towards achieving goals for Americans.

How dare someone modify their thinkig. Bush would never have done that. And, therein lies why I think Obama will be a president than Bush could ever have hoped to be-Obama won't be straight-jacketed by ideology the way Bush was.

As for the Shinski appointment, I love it. Talk about an "in your face" to the Bushies!


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

One would think that, if true, those on the "conservative side" would be applauding this, not using it as an excuse to put the man down. Just goes to show that to some he's damned either way, rendering such criticism worthless.

User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2884 times:



Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
That Obama puts emphasis on the counsel of the military leadership before announcing the exact schedule and modalities is not a sign of weakness.



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 4):
I suppose you can all it "changing campaign promises". My intuition is simply that he is merely modifying his strategy towards achieving goals for Americans.

Sorry, you two, and a bunch of others aren't going to get off that easy. For 5 years whenever events have dictated a change of mission in Iraq we on the conservative side have heard nothing but shrill complaints along the lines of "why are we there today?" It's a two way street. Campaigner Obama campaigned hard on removing the troops within 16 months of his election. To kow come out, after the election and toss that campaign promise over the side is a major change, not a "modification" or anything else. We on the conservative side had predicted this over and over again yet we heard nothing but that Sen. McCain wanted to be in Iraq for 100 years.

On taxes we heard nothing but how one of his priorities would be to send up legislation to repeal the Bush tax cuts on those making over 250K. We heard this right up to election day. Only after the election did we start to hear rumors that it might not come true. This again is not a modification on what he ran on but rather a complete change compared to what he campaigned on. Of course we on the conservative side have known that it was the smart play all along and are happy to see some sense coming through. But for those that posted over and over again that they thought those that make more should pay more now, and that campaigner Obama would get the troops out of where they never should have been, what good was your vote? Where is your "change"? Who's having to "apologize" now?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2868 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
Sorry, you two, and a bunch of others aren't going to get off that easy.

It's not them getting off easy that any of us are worried about. It's about getting the country healthy economically again. It's about restoring our good name to the world.

Unfortunately, as you so often do, it's political ideology before what is good for the country. That's why you can't stop critisizing the man before he takes office, when most people in the nation are giving him high marks for h is choices for his cabinet, and his relative calm in the face of this crisis. Ideology first with you, however.

Your guy-Mr. Bush, on the other hand-has all but stopped being President, and just wants to go to his North Dallas 40. I'll take the guy who is coming inbound, thank you. You can have your ideologically-driven nonsense.


User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2857 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
Sorry, you two, and a bunch of others aren't going to get off that easy. For 5 years whenever events have dictated a change of mission in Iraq we on the conservative side have heard nothing but shrill complaints along the lines of "why are we there today?" It's a two way street. Campaigner Obama campaigned hard on removing the troops within 16 months of his election. To kow come out, after the election and toss that campaign promise over the side is a major change, not a "modification" or anything else. We on the conservative side had predicted this over and over again yet we heard nothing but that Sen. McCain wanted to be in Iraq for 100 years.

He said that was the goal based on what military strategists said was feasible.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/#phased-withdrawal

I see no promises of a timetable here. Only that President-Elect Obama and his advisors will do their best to ensure that the withdrawal will be done responsibly.



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11588 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2841 times:



Quoting WellHung (Reply 6):
One would think that, if true, those on the "conservative side" would be applauding this, not using it as an excuse to put the man down. Just goes to show that to some he's damned either way, rendering such criticism worthless.

It does not matter which Dem would have been elected, they would have been damned no matter what. It's just sour grapes over the fact that Americans are tired of Republican/Bush games.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2829 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
It does not matter which Dem would have been elected, they would have been damned no matter what. It's just sour grapes over the fact that Americans are tired of Republican/Bush games.

Well said and point taken.

The funny thing is Obama has more of his cabinet in place now then W did at this time.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2820 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
And, therein lies why I think Obama will be a president than Bush could ever have hoped to be-Obama won't be straight-jacketed by ideology the way Bush was.

No matter what changes President Bush made he was criticized by the left, and you. As I said, turn about is fair play. Soon to be PE Obama has chucked two of his most campaigned on promises. I welcome the one, you should be incensed given the amount of time you spent applauding him on that campaign promise.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
It's not them getting off easy that any of us are worried about. It's about getting the country healthy economically again

You are included,as a matter of fact right near the top of the list. So I guess now it is ok for the wealthy to keep more of what they earn in your eyes? That wasn't your story a few weeks back. I seem to remember something about them not missing a dime, just one less luxury automobile they wouldn't get or some such prattle.

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 9):
I see no promises of a timetable here. Only that President-Elect Obama and his advisors will do their best to ensure that the withdrawal will be done responsibly.

That is not the solution he campaigned on. It is what conservatives said he would be forced to do when he got into to office. Liberals on this forum phoo phoo'd that as wishful thinking on the conservatives part. Who ended up being right?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
It does not matter which Dem would have been elected, they would have been damned no matter what.

But they are damned more quickly when they campaign heavily on one thing and then do a 180 as soon as the votes are counted. I guess it's still a mater of style over substance to some.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):
The funny thing is Obama has more of his cabinet in place now then W did at this time.

In 2000? You are seriously lacking when it comes to even short term history aren't you?
The 2000 election was not decided until this date in 2000. President Bush did not begin allowing his transition team to start work until the election was decided in his favor.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2816 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
Sorry, you two, and a bunch of others aren't going to get off that easy. For 5 years whenever events have dictated a change of mission in Iraq we on the conservative side have heard nothing but shrill complaints along the lines of "why are we there today?" It's a two way street.

We were criticizing an illegitimate invasion which was badly botched even on top of that.

I cannot see anything even remotely approaching the severity of these Bush/Cheney failures in the statements Obama has made thus far, yet you're already putting Obama on the same (very low) level.

Your problem is that you've got nowhere to go from here.


User currently offlineUsair320 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

I see this as a movement in the right direction to appropriate withdrawing of troops. It would be unrealistic to think we could be out in 16 months (Which he never promised.). I think he is being reponsible by keeping Gates in the pentagon to ensure a smooth troop reduction in Iraq, and (Hopefully) a smooth surge in Afganistan.

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2778 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
No matter what changes President Bush made he was criticized by the left, and you.

You miss the point-dude DIDN'T CHANGE. He never admits he's wrong; and he's too stubborn to change course, even when mistakes are made! He is inflexible, and being inflexible in that office is a hinderance, not a positive. That's what you can't see!

Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
As I said, turn about is fair play.

Again, as I've said, ideological principal before what's best for the country, eh? And it shows you're just pissed, nothing more, nothing less, that the American people don't like the GOP's inflexible ideology.


Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
You are included,as a matter of fact right near the top of the list.

I really don't care if I'm on your list. I want to see this nation get healthy. If I had thought John McCain could have done a better job, I'd have voted for him. But I don't think he can. I think McCain would have followed the same old GOP economic policies-the ones that got us into this mess in the first place. Again, this is not about ideology. It's about getting the country economically healthy again.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2773 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
For 5 years whenever events have dictated a change of mission in Iraq we on the conservative side have heard nothing but shrill complaints along the lines of "why are we there today?"

For three of those years, whenever events dictated a change of mission, that change was not made, because "we had to stay the course or else we would be giving aid and comfort to our enemies", or something like that. Funny how it was only when we finally started adjusting our strategy based on what was actually happening rather than what was planned for that we started making headway.

There is nothing wrong with adapting one's position based on the receipt of different information. In fact, that's what good leaders do.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2747 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
How dare someone modify their thinkig. Bush would never have done that. And, therein lies why I think Obama will be a president than Bush could ever have hoped to be-Obama won't be straight-jacketed by ideology the way Bush was.

It's not modifying one's thinking. It's outright lying during the campaign or not fully understanding the actual situation to begin with. You choose.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

American politics and the two party establishment; real change is impossible. Ugh.

-A



What now?
User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2701 times:



Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
We were criticizing an illegitimate invasion which was badly botched even on top of that.

Number one, the invasion was not illegitimate and number two the military action against Saddams armed forces was carried out with nary a flaw.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
Your problem is that you've got nowhere to go from here.

Your problem is that you now have to defend someone who had no clue during the campaign and made promises he now realizes he can't keep. Promises that Sen. McCain would not make and was roundly criticized for by the left. When all is said and done in two major areas of the campaign soon to be PE Obama is following what Sen. McCain said he would do all along. It also becomes a truth that every soldier that dies after January 20th, 2009 is directly on soon to be PE Obama's head since he promised to start withdrawing them immediately upon taking office more than a few times in the campaign. A promise that he evidently realizes, way too late, that he cannot keep.

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 14):
It would be unrealistic to think we could be out in 16 months (Which he never promised.).

 rotfl   rotfl  I guess they need to change their website then huh?

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ir.../side_by_side_comparison/index.php

Barack Obama will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months.

Sounds like a promise to me.

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 14):
I think he is being reponsible by keeping Gates in the pentagon to ensure a smooth troop reduction in Iraq, and (Hopefully) a smooth surge in Afganistan.

I think it speak volumes more to how lacking any democratic candidate was. Liberals had no problem with President Bush changing defense secretaries in mid-stream. BTW, exactly what do you think a troop surge into Afghanistan is going to accomplish other than raise the cost of that operation?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
He never admits he's wrong; and he's too stubborn to change course, even when mistakes are made!

And as we are beginning to see soon to be PE Obama had no clue what he was talking about and now his policies are mirroring those of Sen. McCain. So who was right to begin with? Sen. McCain who correctly identified the proper course of action on two major policy disputes, or the soon to be PE who is having to backtrack on two major campaing promises that people voted for him in part on and is now mirroring his opponents policies? How often in the future is he going to have to go back and completely retool his campaign policies because he realizes they were flawed from the beginning?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
Again, as I've said, ideological principal before what's best for the country, eh?

I don't hear him saying he was wrong on being able to get out of Iraq or wrong on changing the Bush tax cuts and I don't hear you complaining about that even though you were vociferous in saying campaigner Obam had it right, as a matter of fact I see you defending him, so exactly who is putting "party" first now?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
If I had thought John McCain could have done a better job, I'd have voted for him.

You should be thinking that now considering the major policy changes that soon to be PE Obama has made, without even assuming office yet! He is showing what we conservatives also noted in the campaign, we now have a leader who is getting on the job training. I wonder how much that will cost us?

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
For three of those years, whenever events dictated a change of mission, that change was not made, because "we had to stay the course or else we would be giving aid and comfort to our enemies",

Because for those three years liberals were calling for out and out withdrawl and defeat which did give aid and comfort to our enemies. Ask the leaders of Vietnam if they took heart in the public protest in the 1960's.

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
There is nothing wrong with adapting one's position based on the receipt of different information. In fact, that's what good leaders do.

What has changed in Iraq? If anything the Bush administration has made it easier for him to fulfill his campaign promise by getting a new agreement arranged before the transition. Yet for some strange reason he now feels compelled to leave the troops there. How has taxing the rich to fund a middle class tax break changed? The rich are still richer than the middle class. The government needs that money now more than ever. Nope, This is not "adapting" or "modification", this is getting elected and realizing that you didn't have a clue about what you were talking about. It's going to be fun watching those that voted for him try and defend his pie in the sky visions when they come crashing down one after the other.

This isn't about party, it's about governing, and as we are already seeing, style does not trump substance when it comes to good governing. The only question left now is how much this "style" is going to cost us in the long run.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2672 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
He's not going to repeal the Bush Tax cuts, he's simply going to let them expire in 2011

Wrong he will continue to slash taxes for coporate America, to do otherwise would be a disaster.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
As for Iraq he's not going to bring all the troops home in 16 months but look for about half of the Brigade Combat teams to be withdrawn in the next 16 months.

Oh he has codepink already pissed off, their president was on Hannity the other night and they are watching Obama quite closely now. They are also not happy with his stance on Iran (which is the same as Bush and McCain) and want him to uncondtionally talk to them. Which we all know will never happen but sounded good on the campaign trail and garnished many votes from the moveon crowd as well.

Quoting DXing (Reply 2):
That's not what he said and I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that sometime in the next two years he will advance at least extending those cuts.

Of course he can't have his pal Oprah paying more taxes. Kidding aside he will totally reneg on his campaign promise of going after the big bad CEOs and business unless he wants more jobs to go to Malasia.

Quoting DXing (Reply 2):
That is still a major change to his campaign promise and one that many should have seen coming. It's certainly not going to make the operation pink types happy at all.

No they are not happy. Kind of like how they felt with Pelosi after she promised them to end the war and couldn't.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 4):
I suppose you can all it "changing campaign promises". My intuition is simply that he is merely modifying his strategy towards achieving goals for Americans.

Ahh yes the ol' "campaign from the left and govern from the right"? Mario he misrepresented himeslf to many of his voters to get their vote knowing full well he could never follow through on most of them once he takes office. Which trust me I am thankful for.

Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
Where is your "change"?

Merely a campaign slogan that was thrown out with all those cardboard placards his voters held up at his rallies.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Unfortunately, as you so often do, it's political ideology before what is good for the country.

You say this? Then say this?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
As for the Shinski appointment, I love it. Talk about an "in your face" to the Bushies!

 confused 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
that the American people don't like the GOP's inflexible ideology.

Then why is your buddy Obama moving toward their policies after the election?

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 17):
It's outright lying during the campaign or not fully understanding the actual situation to begin with.

In Obama's case it's both, which is why he is changing his governing so radically from what he said.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Barack Obama will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months.

Sounds like a promise to me.

Of course it was but he will get a pass from just about all like he did all campaign.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
And as we are beginning to see soon to be PE Obama had no clue what he was talking about and now his policies are mirroring those of Sen. McCain. So who was right to begin with? Sen. McCain who correctly identified the proper course of action on two major policy disputes, or the soon to be PE who is having to backtrack on two major campaing promises that people voted for him in part on and is now mirroring his opponents policies? How often in the future is he going to have to go back and completely retool his campaign policies because he realizes they were flawed from the beginning?

 checkmark 


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2638 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
In 2000? You are seriously lacking when it comes to even short term history aren't you?
The 2000 election was not decided until this date in 2000. President Bush did not begin allowing his transition team to start work until the election was decided in his favor.

No I am pointing out a FACT! Bush did nothing in preparing early. Come on he already knew he won thanks to his brother in Florida. Like always Bush was/is reactive not proactive.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2637 times:



Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Barack Obama will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months.

And where does that say all TROOPS will be out in 16 months? No where....just keep grasping for straws.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
He is showing what we conservatives also noted in the campaign, we now have a leader who is getting on the job training. I wonder how much that will cost us?

You didn't seem too upset to have a leader for the past 8 years that was getting on the job training.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Sen. McCain who correctly identified the proper course of action on two major policy disputes, or the soon to be PE who is having to backtrack on two major campaing promises that people voted for him in part on and is now mirroring his opponents policies?

McCain didn't correctly identify anything. He just chose the do nothing option on everything. Whether it was Iraq, the economy or healthcare, McCain wasn't willing to commit to anything because he had NO plans and NO vision. He was just going to sit around with his head stuck in the sand and do nothing.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2611 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
And where does that say all TROOPS will be out in 16 months? No where....just keep grasping for straws.

Straws?

Forgetting about Iraq totally.


Before the election he said he would impose a windfall tax on big oil, after he won he has said he won't.

Before the election he said he would repeal the Bust tax cuts immediately upon becoming president, after he won he said he would let them run out which I would willing to bet (and we can visit it here) that he won't.

He has the true liberals mad as hell with this and his appointments to his cabinet. So you can shelve the talking point rhetoric. This is fact, but grasping at anything. This guy held campaign rallies where he got people all riled up with this rhetoric about attacking big business and oil and giving it back to the middle class and this other crap and he has done a complete 180. It's not Rush or Laura or any kind of rhetoric. It's pretty plain to see.


User currently offlineDXing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2604 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 21):
No I am pointing out a FACT! Bush did nothing in preparing early. Come on he already knew he won thanks to his brother in Florida. Like always Bush was/is reactive not proactive.

Right, good answer, the library is full of history books or you can do it on line. BTW the election was not decided by his brother. That's also in the history books if you'd care to read.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
And where does that say all TROOPS will be out in 16 months? No where....just keep grasping for straws.

This would be from that same website, the one you didn't bother to look at before "grasping for straws" yourself.

A Responsible, Phased Withdrawal
Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began.


Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
You didn't seem too upset to have a leader for the past 8 years that was getting on the job training.

Because when he entered office he already had real world experience as a chief executive both in private business as well as being a Governor of the second largest State in the Union. Two things that the soon to be PE Obama cannot list on his resume.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
McCain didn't correctly identify anything.

Really, then I guess soon to be PE Obama is not correctly identifying anything either since his new stated policy as compared to the policy he campaigned on and was elected on mirrors Sen. McCains.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/JobsforAmerica/taxes.htm

Keep Tax Rates Low: Entrepreneurs are at the heart of American innovation, growth and prosperity. Entrepreneurs create the ultimate job security - a new, better opportunity if your current job goes away. Entrepreneurs should not be taxed into submission. John McCain will keep the top tax rate at 35 percent, maintain the 15 percent rates on dividends and capital gains, and phase-out the Alternative Minimum Tax. Small businesses are the heart of job growth; raising taxes on them hurts every worker.

And the soon to be PE Obama's new policy on Iraq should sound awful familiar too.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm

Those gains would be lost if we were to follow the policy advocated by Senator Barack Obama to withdraw most of our troops and leave behind only a small “strike force” to battle terrorists. That is, in essence, the same strategy of withdrawing from Iraq’s streets that failed in 2006. John McCain advocates continuing the successful counterinsurgency strategy that began in 2007.

Face it, the guy ran on a bunch of policies that now he has been elected to the office he realizes are not doable. I'm happy that he has woken up to reality but if I had voted for him based on the campaign promises he was making I'd be pretty disappointed. As a matter of fact, it seems that some of them are.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081208/pl_politico/16292

"Obama insists he hasn’t abandoned the goals that made him feel to some like a liberal savior. But the left’s bill of particulars against Obama is long, and growing."

The policies and visions he ran on are certainly are falling off the truck one by one on the way to the White House. You folks voted for style over substance yet again. When are you going to stop falling for a pretty face and a smooth line? He can't even make a personal change he said he would.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081207/pl_nm/us_usa_obama_smoking

"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly. "What I said was that there are times where I have fallen off the wagon."

"Wait a minute," Brokaw interjected, "that means you haven't stopped."

"Fair enough," Obama said. "What I would say is that I have done a terrific job under the circumstances of making myself much healthier. You will not see any violations of these rules in the White House."


Now I ask you, is that change we can believe in?


25 Klaus : These complaints are utterly ridiculous when looking at the chaotic mess at this point in time the Bush administration is leaving behind, with the ec
26 Klaus : Notice the difference on a second look?
27 Seb146 : Funny thing: I just read an article on Yahoo where Obama said this exact thing. A leader that can admit he has done wrong? What a concept! That is so
28 FlyPNS1 : Again, no where does this say Obama promised to have all troops out in 16 months. You guys are trying to create promises that never existed. Well for
29 DXing : No. He stated continually during his campaign that imediately upon office he would begin reducing the troops. He has now abandoned that stated aim. I
30 FlyPNS1 : Obama said all along that 16 months was a goal, but that he would let the military dictate the pace of withdrawal which is exactly what he is doing.
31 Travelin man : Amazing. Obama is not even the President yet, and he is being attacked for "back-tracking" on promises. Right wingers are going to have a long time in
32 Post contains links DXing : Ok, you asked for it. http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2008_Pres_1_War_+_Peace.htm "Obama stretched out his schedule for withdrawing troops from Ir
33 FlyPNS1 : The hilarious thing is that the two items you quote actually contradict each other in terms of timeline...indicating that Obama hadn't committed to a
34 Bok269 : Show me proof of him saying, "I will have all troops out of Iraq within 16 months."
35 Mir : There were also plenty of people who said that while withdrawing from Iraq was not an option, some change in strategy was necessary as a result of wh
36 Mt99 : Lets assume this is true for a second. Obama still has a significant advantage over McCain and that is that Sarah Palin is still in Alaska
37 Dougloid : OK. I give up. You and Father Coughlin....err, El Rushbo I believe, you're completely right. Where do I change my vote? You say he's going to be pres
38 ER757 : Ummmm- he's not "soon to be" PE, he already is "president elect." I think you mean "soon to be POTUS" And the the title of this thread gets me - it's
39 Post contains links DXing : No they don't. Yet what is our soon to be PE proposing? No he couldn't. His way was blocked particularly in the Senate where: He never had a fillibus
40 Post contains links Baroque : That is about it. He inherited an economy in a reasonable state, seems to have ignored advice about threats from Mr Terry Wrist and has got the whole
41 Aaron747 : I did, and it's a masterpiece. Hope that guy is getting a decent salary. Are you equating a smoking habit with broken campaign promises? Why was that
42 Baroque : He is certainly well regarded, but the SMH is in a bit of financial strife so he might not be getting what he is worth. He had a set of gems during t
43 DXing : You're kidding right? Recession is a reasonable state? If you can't keep a promise to yourself about yourself what does that say to promises you make
44 Post contains links Mt99 : Maybe you should run for President. So, DX, you agree with Obama moves now.. so should we count you as part of the 79%? The poll indicates that 79 pe
45 DXing : Maybe those that voted for him should have voted for McCain instead, those seem to be the policies that he is following, not the ones he (Obama) camp
46 Aaron747 : Numerous studies suggest that individuals who have high levels of stress are less likely to succeed at quitting smoking. My father is 58, a VP of mar
47 Captaink : Many have personal opinions on who would be the better president. DXing is obviously a Republican. And this fight can go on for years, without getting
48 DXing : Sorry, my jobs have all been stressful, right up to the one I have today. If I can quit so can he. If he makes a promise to quit, he should honor tha
49 Sv7887 : Cmon guys, The guy hasn't even been sworn in yet and we're already bickering. What Politician doesn't renege on campaign promises? President Bush was
50 Smcmac32msn : Oh geezesus....... Bush got elected twice on false campaign promises.... do you really think he'd have a 30% support rating, and a majority of Democr
51 Bok269 : All that says is that he will work to end the war within 16 months. He doesn't promise immediate withdrawals or having all the troops home within tha
52 Captaink : Look, Bush's plans turned into actions, and they apparently didn't work. Obama is still in the planning stage. The result is yet to be seen. Only the
53 Dougloid : Wait a minute! I've got a great idea! I betcha Obama isn't a citizen! Look here! That's what El Rushbo said! You mean he is? The Supremes aren't havi
54 Arrow : The trouble is, it was a mission that should never have been undertaken. You're now going after Obama for demonstrating pragmatism, including a willi
55 Seb146 : One thing I find interesting is the mere mention of the word "recession" was being put off and put off in the past year or so, but, looking back on h
56 Aaron747 : Sorry buddy, running Asia marketing for a company with $4 billion in sales or a presidential campaign doesn't begin to compare in stress to any job y
57 Luv2fly : Well said. I have to agree, none of us on the board has ever or probably will ever experience the stress of both running for and being elected POTUS!
58 NIKV69 : Oh please Obama saw what was happening to the economy and he still said these things simply to get elected. In fact if the economy was thriving he wo
59 Dougloid : Where IS the sour grapes emoticon when you need it? Your problem, my good fellow, is that you and your party have been thrown out on your asses by an
60 Post contains images Klaus : There's a nice one: One might argue that he could have changed his message during the campaign, but then you'd have nailed him to the cross for that,
61 NIKV69 : You kidding? I am quite happy. He is governing just about the same as McCain would so I am all for it. I would feel slighted if I voted for him thoug
62 FlyPNS1 : You're absolutely right. We should just let our country keep on crumbling....let our infrastructure collapse, let our military rot, let our schools f
63 NIKV69 : You forgetting why the economy is in the trouble it's in right now? Trust me it's not because we don't tax enough. So your propaganda is null and voi
64 Travelin man : So far 75%-80% of people think he is doing a good job with cabinet selection, etc. So I guess a "good percentage" of people still are not feeling "le
65 Post contains links FlyPNS1 : What's the current state of the economy got to do with it? Our infrastructure, healthcare, etc were crumbling long before the current crisis. I love
66 NIKV69 : Well then you better explain your statement on who is going to kill them because it sure sounded like you meant us. Of course they do he has moved co
67 DXing : As we have seen, soon to be President Elect Obama can say whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and his devoted followers will always be ready to forg
68 Klaus : What turned Bush from hero to zero was his absolutely dismal job performance. Most people expect much better from Obama. Your rants are immaterial if
69 Yellowstone : If you weren't being quite so blindly ideological, you'd realize that he was talking about the militants, insurgents and terrorists that sprung up in
70 Dougloid : Yes indeedy. As my old crew chief used to say, you can go quietly or you can go kicking and screaming, but go you will.
71 Baroque : mm, I think it is really hundreds of thousands Yellowstone but we will not argue, it is undoubtedly far far too many. So NIKV69, if you will send me
72 Smcmac32msn : Why are we so worried about wether or not other countries are so screwed up? They weren't affecting us, and as GWB said the other day..... Iraq isn't
73 WunalaYann : *ouch, my jaws and abs are sore from so much laughing* Aaaaaaah. Thank you. That was a good laugh. *grabs tissue to wipe tears of laughter* *takes a
74 Post contains links WunalaYann : Back on topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijacke...e_September_11_attacks#The_attacks Unless tectonics have shifted dramatically in the past 30 sec
75 Baroque : Did you do that with a dart and a map of the world? Still and all, we should not complain, you have definitely worked out that Iraq was not a problem
76 Post contains images Klaus : Sorry, I have no icon spin available...
77 Post contains links Arrow : We already occupy a special place on the "trade" axis of evil list, and there's no question that might become an issue with the Dems in complete cont
78 Seb146 : Right... So, the fact that taxes were lowered on the rich, they (the rich aka CEOs) moved manufacturing jobs overseas and put the profits into off-sh
79 Dougloid : An interesting story. After reading the story it sounds to me as if the only people really getting hosed here is the provincial government. As mother
80 Arrow : Now why did I instinctively know that you'd wade into this one, Dougloid? They are not screwing themselves out of stumpage. They are determining in a
81 Smcmac32msn : So none of you have read the book "Open Target" by Clark Kent Ervin, huh? He was the first inspector general for the Dept. of Homeland Security. Its
82 Post contains links Dougloid : Yeah, but what's the point of a conversation if it's artificially constrained by 'boundaries'? Well, you brought it up, so when theres a couple of us
83 Arrow : I've read that study, and I know the guy who wrote it. He's about as left-wing as they come (not that there's anything wrong with that!) Having said
84 Dougloid : See? I talked to somebody who knows somebody famous today. Yeah, I guess there is poetic justice.You have to be careful what you ask for. Of course,
85 Arrow : Obviously it's a lot more complicated than Parfitt makes it out (that's the "left" in him). First Nations aren't shut out from crown timber, in fact
86 Mirrodie : Get off that easy? I'm not on the hook for anything. Just conveying my straightforward thought. It'll be an interesting 4 years.
87 Post contains links MadameConcorde : Barack Obama plans major address in Islamic capital President-Elect Barack Obama will try to 'reboot' America's image in the Muslim world with a 'majo
88 PSA727 : Yeah, that should do the trick! I wonder what will win them over more: hope or change. Unless he plans on dramatically changing the U.S. policy with
89 Seb146 : Not at all. But, what is wrong with trying to undo the damage that has been done over the past eight years real or percieved? What is the old saying?
90 Post contains images NIKV69 : Oh yea they just "sprung up" after we got there Here is one, she may not speak English but she sure seems happy to be able to participate in the Demo
91 Post contains links WunalaYann : Yes, actually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Iraq Ah, when facts get in the way of ideology... Complete with the timeline of the differe
92 Klaus : Indeed. In many cases it were former members of the iraqi army which had stupidly been dissolved by the occupation administration who organize(d) the
93 Smcmac32msn : C'mon really? Wikipedia? Is that a real source??? So the Iraqi's were about to go into a civil war before we (needlessly) attacked the entire country
94 WunalaYann : Yes. And one that lists many, many other reputable sources if you can make the effort to scroll down the page to the "references" section. That is us
95 Smcmac32msn : How are we the reason for your conflict??? It wasn't Britains's fault the US had a Civil War in the 1860s and they didn't go jumping into it. Its the
96 Arrow : Read up a little on that. There was a lot of high level Union diplomacy designed to make sure Britain and France did not formally recognize the Confe
97 Smcmac32msn : They didn't come in heaving "ye holy cannonballs"* at thy north like us sweeping in from Saudi Arabia in '03. My point is, they were neutral, but the
98 Post contains links Baroque : Quite a point, although it assumes a level of logic for AlQ that might be ahead of what we have seen - hence why W and Osama were such a neat match f
99 WunalaYann : Not my conflict. Their conflict. As in, the Iraqis' conflict, which we watched explode to civil war proportions, and (hopefully) unintentionally enco
100 Smcmac32msn : Your right..... being a Sunni or Shiite has nothing to do with it. It was us damn Americans who caused it. Maybe we can cause the Serbia-Montenegro c
101 Post contains links Baroque : And for a very funny review that does not tell you much about that book see: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...entury-by-chris-patten-942647.htm
102 Smcmac32msn : Say what??? I'm not honestly sure what the hell your trying to say here??? Can you detail yourself further?
103 WunalaYann : Lost the plot much recently? You choose to refer to yourself as a "damn American", don't pin that on anybody else. The facts are stubborn - there was
104 Smcmac32msn : And if we wouldn't have touched the thin tower of logs holding Iraq up.... it wouldn't have fallen. Not under our watch, but under Hussein's. This we
105 Baroque : Nothing to add. In the words of James Cromwell in Babe, "That'll do".
106 Post contains links Baroque : Are you sure you have not been reading the Magazine of the Max Planck Forschung? Gotta be careful with these languages you do not understand let alon
107 Dougloid : I prefer the words of the other Cromwell: "Gentlemen, I beseech you in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
108 Post contains links Smcmac32msn : Wait, Bush Sr. didn't invade Iraq? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/cron/ August 5th, 1990: Bush declared the "invasion would not stand".
109 Arrow : As you well know, Bush 1 stopped the onslaught before it even got close to Bahgdad because he knew that overthrowing Saddam would destabilize the ent
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Meet The Man That Really Cost McCain The Election posted Thu Nov 13 2008 19:59:32 by Superfly
October LHR Meet: The Aftermath posted Sun Oct 5 2008 14:34:05 by ShyFlyer
Palin And The Press posted Sun Sep 7 2008 07:47:42 by Luv2fly
OMG Has Obama Finally Seen The Light? posted Thu Sep 4 2008 14:48:21 by RJdxer
Obama's Trip To Berlin Becomes US Campaign Issue posted Mon Jul 14 2008 05:23:58 by Columba
Hillary Doesn't Congratulate Obama On Wins posted Tue Feb 12 2008 19:13:17 by FriendlySkies
Obama And Hiliary - The Secret Affair posted Wed Jan 30 2008 19:01:50 by Emirates773ER
Freedom Of The Press... Or Breaking The Law? posted Tue Jan 22 2008 09:33:36 by MDorBust
Go On... Squeeze The Charmin... posted Fri Dec 14 2007 08:18:11 by Seb146
An Intelligent Proposal From Obama On SS Reform posted Mon Sep 24 2007 18:22:49 by Pope