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I Can't Decide Where To Spend 2 Weeks In The U.S.  
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

I am in the planning stages for a vacation in the U.S. in two very different areas (either South/SouthEast or SouthWest/West) but cannot decide between several options.

Preconditions:
- Time frame (departures): 29-MAR thru 11-APR-2009 (outbound up to 2 days earlier, return max. 1 day earlier)
- I will be getting around by rental car.
- I prefer to explore the countryside (by car) rather than to explore big cities (unless the city is very interesting)
- I prefer to stay in one hotel/motel for several consecutive days rather than chaning accomodation every night.

Special things planned for each city / area:
- explore local sights
- daytrips by car into countryside
- daytrips by air out of BNA and CHA only, adding new airports to my log

Disclaimer:
Categories for costs of longhaul flights and rental car are relative to eachother, but not in respect to absolute figures.
__________________________________________________
Option #1: Memphis, Nashville, Chattanooga
Flight on KL/NW into MEM
about 4 nights in each city.
Return home out of ATL on KL preceeded with direct drive from Chattanooga.

Costs for flights: medium
Cost of oneway rental for car MEM - ATL: medium
Number of accomodation: 3
__________________________________________________
Option #2: Atlanta, Nashville, Memphis, Chattanooga
Flight on KL /NW into ATL (not using the KL-nonstop from AMS, as my feeder flight from HAJ would leave too early around 6am; connection via DTW gives me an arrival at ATL around 9pm)
2-3 nights in Atlanta (been there before on a business trip)
Drive to Nashville, 3-4 nights
Drive to Memphis, 3 nights
Drive to Chattanooga, 3 nights
Return home out of ATL on KL preceeded with direct transfer from Chattanooga.

This very routing is avoiding one long nonstop drive between Atlanta and Memphis (via Birmingham), irrespective of direction.

Costs for flights: low
Cost of oneway rental for car : none (ATL/ATL)
Number of accomodation: 4
__________________________________________________
Option #3: New Orleans, River Road, Memphis, Nashville
Flight on KL/NW into MSY via MEM
3-4 nights New Orleans
Drive along river roads to Memphis with one night in either Natchez or Vicksburg
3-4 nights Memphis
4-5 nights Nashville (daytrips by a/c, daytrips by car into countryside and to Chattanooga)
Flight out of BNA on NW/KL via DTW

Costs for flights: high
Cost of oneway rental for car MSY - BNA: high
Number of accomodation: 4
__________________________________________________
Option #4: New Orleans, River Road, Memphis, Nashville, Chattanooga
Begin as option #3, but extended with a few nights in Chattanooga, but fewer nights at the other locations
Return home out of ATL on KL preceeded with direct transfer from Chattanooga.

Costs for flights: medium
Cost of oneway rental for car MSY - ATL: low to medium
Number of accomodation: 5
__________________________________________________
Option #5: Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon South, Bryce Canyon
Flight on KL into LAX
2-3 nights Greater L.A. (return visit)
Drive to Las Vegas (avoiding weekend; return visit), about 3 nights
Drive to Williams or Flagstaff, AZ (2 nights; daytrip to Grand Canyon South, new experience)
Drive to Bryce Canyon (2 nights)
Some other sight ?
Return to Las Vegas (min. 1 night)
Fly LAS-LAX on WN ; return home on KL out of LAX

Costs for flights: medium.
Cost of oneway rental for car : none (LAX/LAS)
Number of accomodation: 6 (almost a bit much for my taste)
__________________________________________________
Option #6: Los Angeles, Highway #1, San Francisco
Flight on KL into LAX
3-4 nights Greater L.A. (return visit)
Slowly drive along Higway #1 to S.F. within 3 days
about 4 nights in the Bay Area (first visit to speak of)
Flight on KL out of SFO
(maybe extend some stays by the odd day)

Costs for flights: medium.
Cost of oneway rental for car : none (LAX/SFO)
Number of accomodation: 4
__________________________________________________

So many options to choose from, but at present I am inclined to go for options 2 or 6, but the other options are not ruled out yet (#3 being the least likely).

All suggestions / comments are welcomed !
-HT


Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2860 times:
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Quoting HT (Thread starter):
All suggestions / comments are welcomed !

Too many options, you dont know what you want. forget it and go to Asia , better place to travel to and the Euro is worth more so more $ for your money

mal787



BN2 Metro, 402,404, Conquest, king air, 707,727.200, 732,733,734,735,736,738,757,762,763,742,743,744, MD11, DC9,Westwind
User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2856 times:



Quoting Mal787 (Reply 1):
Too many options, you dont know what you want. forget it and go to Asia

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl  Amazing sense of humor,congratulations Mal

Alex!!!



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2840 times:



Quoting Mal787 (Reply 1):
Too many options, you dont know what you want. forget it and go to Asia , better place to travel to and the Euro is worth more so more $ for your money

Sorry, it is not an option for me to go to Asia (= SouthEast Asia) during that vacation.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2829 times:

[quote=HT,reply=3]Sorry, it is not an option for me to go to Asia (= SouthEast Asia) during that vacation.
What about for example 4 days in Lebanon,4 days in Syria,4 days in Jordan and 4 days in Israel ? The weather in ME is amazing in Mars and April
Germany-BEY-DAM-AMM-TLV-Germany

Alex!!!



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2819 times:

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 4):
What about for example 4 days in Lebanon,4 days in Syria,4 days in Jordan and 4 days in Israel ? The weather in ME is amazing in Mars and April
Germany-BEY-DAM-AMM-TLV-Germany

I would skip Israel otherwise he will be strip-searched while trying to depart in Tel Aviv,based on his previous agenda..believe me-I've gone through this shit..
But if the poster insists on going to the USA- I'd skip Los Angeles,since it is not a nice city.(Sorry ..) Frisco is a must ! - Personally I'd visit New Mexico ,since the Indian culture present in this State is quite fascinating and worth to devote a trip on it's own.
To many visitors forget about the native Americans cultural heritage and focus on "white America".Spending some days with Indians can bring a totally new perspective in your vision of Life...

[Edited 2008-12-17 05:14:05]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2814 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
I would skip Israel

Totally agree,than somewhere in Egypt and by the way The Sham al Naseem feast, Spring Festival isn't between Mars and April ?

Alex!!!



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineMal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2814 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting HT (Thread starter):
am in the planning stages for a vacation in the U.S. in two very different areas (either South/SouthEast or SouthWest/West) but cannot decide between several options



Quoting HT (Reply 3):
Sorry, it is not an option for me to go to Asia (= SouthEast Asia) during that vacation.
-HT

Okay so the US is a must. so being here on this site you must love avaiation, so how about fly into San Fran ticky tour around a bit have look at the sights , then fly to Seattle do the Boeing thing factory etc. then drive to Vancover one awsome city in Canada and fly home from there. Great trip and you can easily fill 2 weeks

mal787



BN2 Metro, 402,404, Conquest, king air, 707,727.200, 732,733,734,735,736,738,757,762,763,742,743,744, MD11, DC9,Westwind
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2800 times:

I like options 5 and 6, but I would also recommend thinking about the Pacific Northwest (SEA/PDX/YVR area).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2785 times:



Quoting Mal787 (Reply 7):
so how about fly into San Fran ticky tour around a bit have look at the sights , then fly to Seattle do the Boeing thing factory etc. then drive to Vancover one awsome city in Canada and fly home from there. Great trip and you can easily fill 2 weeks

I like that but I will add one more flight from Vancouver to Montreal than back to Germany!

Alex!!!



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineCOrocks From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2781 times:

I would combine #5 and #6 and do Vegas, Route 1, San Francisco, and Napa. You mention "countryside" a couple of times, so that is why I added Napa (unless you don't drink) - it is beautiful there. I would skip LA. Vegas is a must.

User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5741 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2758 times:

I'd go for #5 and instead of wasting time in L.A. I would try to save more time for places like the Death Valley ot the National Parks or some other natural wonders.

User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2748 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
I'd visit New Mexico

Agreed, particularly northern New Mexico and Arizona. Otherwise, #6, but skip LA. I would work my way north from San Francisco to Portland.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2746 times:

I like Options number 5 and 6...As someone else has mentioned...PDX/SEA/YVR is a great route...

Here's something also take into consideration and just to get a different vantage point.

They've just recently started Zeppelin tours in the San Francisco Area.

http://www.airshipventures.com/

Sounds Awesome to me...

And I think they take you into Napa Valley too.


User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5520 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

Option #4 seems pretty cool. You can experience the warmth of New Orleans, and chill in the mountains of Chattanooga (which I found to be beautiful).

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

Back at home and seeing massive replies ... Thanks for the recommendations.
Some replies from my side:

Middle East: I have no concerns about visiting this nice area, but not during this vacation.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
- Personally I'd visit New Mexico ,since the Indian culture present in this State is quite fascinating and worth to devote a trip on it's own.

&

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 12):
Agreed, particularly northern New Mexico and Arizona.

I have been to Southern Arizona twice in the last 7 years staying in Tucson.
Explored SW-NM from TUS a bit and SE-NM from another stay in El Paso.
The nothern half of NM is foreseen to be explored during some later trip (not necessarily in 2009), timed to coincide with the ABQ Balloon Fiesta, usually being held early October. That trip then should continue north into Colorado.
But I suspect that weather is a bit too unstable early April to tour that area (plus being unable to combine with the Bolloon Fiesta).

Quoting Mal787 (Reply 7):
then fly to Seattle do the Boeing thing factory etc. then drive to Vancover one awsome city in Canada and fly home from there. Great trip and you can easily fill 2 weeks

&

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Pacific Northwest (SEA/PDX/YVR area).

&

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
I would also recommend thinking about the Pacific Northwest (SEA/PDX/YVR area).

&

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 12):
I would work my way north from San Francisco to Portland.

The Boeing factory and the Museum are on my to do list, as it is the last remaining major (by my judgement) aviation museum in the U.S. I am missing.
But: How is the weather in the Pac-NorthWest by early April ? If I go there, I definitely am willing to explore more of Oregon and Washington State, so a period in which no snow is to be expected would be appreciated.

Quoting COrocks (Reply 10):
I would combine #5 and #6 and do Vegas, Route 1, San Francisco, and Napa. You mention "countryside" a couple of times, so that is why I added Napa (unless you don't drink) - it is beautiful there. I would skip LA. Vegas is a must.

&

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 13):
And I think they take you into Napa Valley too.

I do drink Red Wine, but I also drive - and as I will go on the trip alone, I have to skip the vinaries anyhow ...  Sad
BTW, I have driven through Napa Valley on a earlier daytrip I made to the Bay Area flying in from Las Vegas, checking out things.
But if staying in the Bay Area, I likely yould return to this site - and make it to Point Reyes.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 11):
I'd go for #5 and instead of wasting time in L.A. I would try to save more time for places like the Death Valley ot the National Parks or some other natural wonders.

I have been into Death Valley 3 times, once using a high-clearance 4WD (Ford Expedition) exploring (among others) Titus Canyon and another seldom travelled road leading from Father Crawley Point (west of DV, overlooking the Panamint Valley where you can spot fighter a/c from China Lake Naval Weapons Center flying through the valley below you) to Kettle Junction. The only traffic I encountered in these 90-some minutes was a organized tour of ATV's ...
Big version: Width: 518 Height: 691 File size: 255kb
Teakettele Junction in north-western portion of the Death Valley - OCT-2005

I agree, that DV has wonderful sights to offer.
The view from Mahagony Flat into DV is great - and rarely visited as it is only accessible with 4WD.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 12):
Otherwise, #6, but skip LA.

My stay in Greater L.A. area would be to relax after the flight plus some spotting at LAX and maybe a return visit to the Planes of Fame museum at Chino airport.
Alternative could be to make a bee-line to Barstow (I know, I will get flamed for this) and enjoy the low and high deserts from there incl. having MHV and VCV within easy reach.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 13):
They've just recently started Zeppelin tours in the San Francisco Area.
http://www.airshipventures.com/

Interesting info.
They offer the same kind of tours in Germany on Lake Constance where the Zeppelin was built. From what I have heard, trips are rather expensive but still in high demand.
I was talking with fellow user Glidepath73 (the organizer of the famous ZRH-meetings) after the last ZRH-meeting, if this could not be part of a ZRH (of FDH)-meeting in coming years ...

Quoting Continental (Reply 14):
Option #4 seems pretty cool. You can experience the warmth of New Orleans, and chill in the mountains of Chattanooga (which I found to be beautiful).

Good point.

-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3695 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

Yes, weather could be a problem in April, even in central/northern California. I would stick south if it were me. Save Seattle for an August trip, otherwise the weather is completely hit-n-miss. I grew up in Seattle, am partial to the Southwest but the southeast might be your best bet. The Ozarks are beautiful and you will get a good taste of a vastly different culture than what is normally perceived.

User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Bryce Canyon is really cool. As is Zion national park close by. In warmer weather Zions has some really awesome hikes two of the best are the narrows and the subway.

If you do the drive up the California coast Mendecino is really neat town.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2669 times:
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Quoting HT (Reply 15):
But: How is the weather in the Pac-NorthWest by early April ? If I go there, I definitely am willing to explore more of Oregon and Washington State, so a period in which no snow is to be expected would be appreciated.

I've just done LA, flew up to SEA and spent some time at PAE and surrounding areas (incl. the Boeing tour and Future of Flight). I then drove across the border to Vancouver, had an awesome time and then flew back to the US East Coast.

Last year I went up to Alaska (which is brilliant) and then down to SEA & PAE. I love the Pacific Northwest! I also drove around Vancouver, up to Whistler, made use of BC Ferries (sailing around) and then headed to YYZ in order to see Niagara Falls.

Decisions, decisions....  Wink

Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2635 times:



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 16):
but the southeast might be your best bet. The Ozarks are beautiful and you will get a good taste of a vastly different culture than what is normally perceived.

&

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 17):
Bryce Canyon is really cool. As is Zion national park close by. In warmer weather Zions has some really awesome hikes two of the best are the narrows and the subway.

&

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 18):
I've just done LA, flew up to SEA and spent some time at PAE and surrounding areas (incl. the Boeing tour and Future of Flight). I then drove across the border to Vancouver, had an awesome time and then flew back to the US East Coast.

Last year I went up to Alaska (which is brilliant) and then down to SEA & PAE. I love the Pacific Northwest! I also drove around Vancouver, up to Whistler, made use of BC Ferries (sailing around) and then headed to YYZ in order to see Niagara Falls.

Decisions, decisions....  

So true ...

Looks like it will be a coin toss for the decision.
OTOH, the Southwest easily (safely) can be travelled in autumn, too, whereas, the South / Southeast might get affected by hurricaines, so this might put the balance a bit into favour for this area ...
-HT
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineIpodguy7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

Come to Nashville!!!!!


AA/DL/NW/CO/UA/US/AC/FI/EI/BD/BA/AF/AZ/DY/SK/QF/JQ
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2587 times:



Quoting HT (Reply 19):
Looks like it will be a coin toss for the decision.
OTOH, the Southwest easily (safely) can be travelled in autumn, too, whereas, the South / Southeast might get affected by hurricaines, so this might put the balance a bit into favour for this area ...

Don't let anyone tell you where to go, what to do or what to see. Find your own vision of America. Avoid cities over 100,000 in population.

You could be pleasantly surprised.






 Wink


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

Option #5. The American Southwest is a very unique area in regards to scenery. I've taken six trips to LAS in the last four years and the scenery as you're flying over Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah (I had a flight back in May where we flew over southern Utah) still enthuses me. No matter how many times I fly over the Grand Canyon as well as Lake Mead, it still leaves me in awe.

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2556 times:



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 20):
Come to Nashville!!!!!

Quite likely.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 21):
Don't let anyone tell you where to go, what to do or what to see.

I am taking the replies as suggestions, as I asked from them.
The decision, ultimately, will be mine, but hopefully based on an enlarged base of knowledge / facts.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 21):
Find your own vision of America. Avoid cities over 100,000 in population.
You could be pleasantly surprised.

I already have an overall positive impression that I got during multiple trips to the U.S.
If I hadn't that, I wouldn't return again and again ...

Quoting HT (Reply 15):

For some reason the picture in that reply no longer shows, so here is a copy:
Big version: Width: 432 Height: 576 File size: 178kb
Teakettle Junction, Death Valley, CA in 10-2005

-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2477 times:



Quoting HT (Reply 23):
I already have an overall positive impression that I got during multiple trips to the U.S.
If I hadn't that, I wouldn't return again and again ...

Sounds good to me. I suspect it is like a lot of other places in that respect.

I've been here sixty years and it suits me pretty well, particularly the less built up parts of our country and the people who inhabit those places. I do not like crowds as you may have guessed, and the wider and more open the spaces the more peace I get. Having grown up in New Jersey with a population density similar to Japan's and having lived 12 years in Long Beach and Signal Hill, California, I believe I've spent enough urban time. Des Moines is about as crowded as I can handle these days.

There's nothing I like more than getting a long way from town at night, far from the mercury vapor lighting, and looking up to see what's happening in the cosmos. One time I camped out in Death Valley, far from the public campgrounds. My friend and I took a look at the public campgrounds and headed north. When we got about halfway to Beatty Nevada I pulled my van back around a range of low hills out of sight of the road...It was an amazing sight at night.

Well....I'm in flyover country so when you're on your way look down. That speck of light on the prairie is my place. You're welcome any time.




 Wink


25 Falstaff : Come to Detroit. We can drive around drunk in unsafe cars, rummage through falling down buildings, shoot off guns, and have a grand ole' time. After y
26 Mir : Not at that time of year. Hurricane season is mid-summer to mid-fall, with the high point being late summer to early fall. -Mir
27 PSA727 : Try this option: San Diego-Los Angeles-San Francisco. Any further north at that time of year isn't going to be that great weather wise; probably a lot
28 GrahamHill : I'd choose this option, even if I would replace LA by SF.
29 HT : Kindered spirits here ! I did the same when driving at night on CA-168 approaching Big Pine from Nevada (coming from US-95). Shortly before descendin
30 AC888YOW : Definitely do a California road trip. Start at San Francisco and head south on Highway 1 until you get to San Diego. You can easily fill a 2 week trip
31 Dougloid : I did that but I went west from Portland until I got to Tillamook and stayed on 101 until I popped out at Oxnard. It was a great trip. If it's still
32 HT : Sorry to all of you who recommended either the West Coast or the Southwest, but I booked my flight a moment ago. I found a way to fly on the nonstop
33 Lowrider : Hopefully you will have a few days to explore Northern Georgia. Some incredibly beautiful scenery there. If weather and time permits, a trip down the
34 IgneousRocks : I think you made the right choice as well. However, you will find that more than 2-3 days in places like Memphis or Nashville is enough and will be re
35 Runway777 : i have the best idea, since the us is stinky, skip it, and come to canada ha ha ha ha jokes kalli
36 Dougloid : One of the best trips I took was in a light plane from Kalamazoo to Racine across the lake. We left about 4 in the afternoon in a Baron and got there
37 HT : Yes, I have a big desire for this, as long as it includes weird / challenging routings. If there is something to report, I might write up a summary.
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